Analysis of Celtics Games (2020-2021)

nighthob

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You aren't allowed to talk about negative side affects of the vaccine. It's conspiracy stuff. Never mind the VAERS data.

All I know is that two iconic (admittedly older) athletes in Hagler and Aaron got the vaccine... so I can imagine there is a certain reluctance to trust the government over this stuff. Add the name Tuskegee and the word 'experimental', and I doubt they get a lot of the players to all jump in line to get a vaccine - unless they make it mandatory... and that presents its own set of problems.

I hope those you know that had negative side effects are doing well.
One of them, the wife of a friend, has been in ill health since getting the vaccine. The other was a healthy 25 year old (the child of a friend) and got flattened by covid symptoms for a week, but they've been fine since. Their sister had the J&J single dose vaccine and was fine. So I'm definitely pro-vaccine, I'd just be cautious with the Moderna one. Although as young, healthy, athletes NBA players should (in theory) be fine.
 

nighthob

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Some info from doctors has been as bad or worse in terms of misinformation, with Scott Atlas and Rand Paul being two prominent yet hardly unique examples. I really don't believe we need to promote unfounded anti-vaccination stories about side effects without actual scientific evidence, and that includes the relative side effects of Moderna vs JnJ vs Pfizer vs Sinovac. The anecdotal evidence from the V&N thread on personal experiences shows almost zero difference.

P&G seems like the best place to support the anti-vaxxers.
You just keep doubling down on idiocy, don't you? I'm pretty sure that as someone that actually has had covid, I'm a little more familiar with all this stuff than you are. And my doctor, who does specialize in infectious diseases, is a little better at this than your "BUT I TOTALLY RED THIS ARTICLE ON CNN!!!" opinion.
 

nighthob

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Can we move the vaccine discussion to the Sons of Kyrie Irving board?
That would be fine if anyone here was suggesting going unvaccinated, but despite Lexra's claims no one actually said that. But I do understand that the Wokenvolk are addicted to tilting at strawmen.
 

lexrageorge

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You just keep doubling down on idiocy, don't you? I'm pretty sure that as someone that actually has had covid, I'm a little more familiar with all this stuff than you are. And my doctor, who does specialize in infectious diseases, is a little better at this than your "BUT I TOTALLY RED THIS ARTICLE ON CNN!!!" opinion.
I was going to continue to double down on idiocy that recommends against getting a specific, approved vaccine. I will end my part of the thread diversion here, however. You do get one last shot in; don't want to get the mods upset. ;)
 
Aug 2, 2010
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You just keep doubling down on idiocy, don't you? I'm pretty sure that as someone that actually has had covid, I'm a little more familiar with all this stuff than you are. And my doctor, who does specialize in infectious diseases, is a little better at this than your "BUT I TOTALLY RED THIS ARTICLE ON CNN!!!" opinion.
But don't you think the vast majority of infections disease doctors outweigh your personal example?

Not for nothing but you sound like a deranged lunatic. No offense.
 

RetractableRoof

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But don't you think the vast majority of infections disease doctors outweigh your personal example?

Not for nothing but you sound like a deranged lunatic. No offense.
Actually he sounds like a reasoned human being. He said, people I know have had severe side effects and my Dr (later identified as an infectious disease specialist) said "when the time comes" get the Pfizer vaccine. So he was acknowledging that a vaccine is in his future, and with advice of a Dr he was going to seek out the Pfizer one. That is sound logic. Describing him as a "deranged lunatic" for following the advice of an infectious disease Dr sounds like you have your own agenda. Just my 2 cents.
 

nighthob

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But don't you think the vast majority of infections disease doctors outweigh your personal example?

Not for nothing but you sound like a deranged lunatic. No offense.
It's not my personal example, my doctor, who unlike you actually follows this stuff, let me know that I was in the danger group for side effects from the Moderna vaccine and that I should choose one of the other two options. I do get that to religious ultra-fundamentalists like yourself anything that contradicts your doctrine is heretical. But your lunacy isn''t my problem. It's yours.
 

nighthob

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I was going to continue to double down on idiocy that recommends against getting a specific, approved vaccine. I will end my part of the thread diversion here, however. You do get one last shot in; don't want to get the mods upset. ;)
When you tilt at strawmen, does the hay get in your eyes? I was advised against one specific vaccine because it has a higher incidence of negative side effects and I fall into a high risk category for coming down with them. It's hilarious, though, that you think your opinion is worth more than a specialist.
 

slamminsammya

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Is it statistically true that we would expect the team with the most covid cases to be an order of magnitude more cases than the median team? Its not obvious the high number of cases on the Celtics is due to bad protocols.
 
Aug 2, 2010
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It's not my personal example, my doctor, who unlike you actually follows this stuff, let me know that I was in the danger group for side effects from the Moderna vaccine and that I should choose one of the other two options. I do get that to religious ultra-fundamentalists like yourself anything that contradicts your doctrine is heretical. But your lunacy isn''t my problem. It's yours.
My wife is a pharmacist who has been giving COVID vaccines (both brands) since January to allow crazy people like you to spew nonsense on a message board. So yeah, she follows this stuff too. And all too often she has to deal with this type of shit. So kindly go fuck yourself.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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The Moderna vaccine is kind of problematic anyway. I personally know two people that had it that had severe side effects, and I highly doubt that I'm some outlier. Christ, even my doctor told me to make certain I get the Pfizer shots when the time comes for me to do it.
Two people out of north of 86M for Pfizer and 77M for Moderna and you think that's data.

If you're really interested in actual numbers rather than what some people tell you, here's a report after 21+M shots and 2M reports: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-01/06-COVID-Shimabukuro.pdf

Note last I saw, Pfizer has a slightly higher risk of anaphylaxis at 5 per million (Moderna was 3 per million) but everything is changing given that something like 150M shots have been administered of the 2 vaccines.
 

RetractableRoof

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Two people out of north of 86M for Pfizer and 77M for Moderna and you think that's data.

If you're really interested in actual numbers rather than what some people tell you, here's a report after 21+M shots and 2M reports: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-01/06-COVID-Shimabukuro.pdf

Note last I saw, Pfizer has a slightly higher risk of anaphylaxis at 5 per million (Moderna was 3 per million) but everything is changing given that something like 150M shots have been administered of the 2 vaccines.
C'mon, let's be fair here. He said that two people he knew had severe side effects. He said he further had a private conversation with a Dr that knew his personal medical history and recommended the Pfizer vaccine for him. He didn't say he was anti-vaccine, he said that his infectious disease specialist of a Dr. recommended 1 variant of the 3 available vaccines for when he gets vaccinated. I'm not sure where the conflict is.

Did you read where he said 2 cases were statistically significant? I didn't see it. The religious zealotry over this vaccine is just insane. If folks want to attack someone, go attack Harvard professor of medicine Martin Kulldorff, a member of the COVID-19 vaccine safety subgroup that advises the CDC, FIH, and FDA who said that if you've had covid-19 you don't need to get vaccinated.

If Nighthob said 2 of his neighbors drive Dodge Ram's and had problems with the transmission, and his mechanic said given how he drives his trucks he needs something with a better torque ratio people might bust his butt about SSS, but nothing with this fervor. [Clearly I make all that crap up - I know nothing about torque ratios, or vehicles at all to be honest.] I get that this is medical context - but he wasn't saying don't get vaccinated... damn.
 

nighthob

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Is it statistically true that we would expect the team with the most covid cases to be an order of magnitude more cases than the median team? Its not obvious the high number of cases on the Celtics is due to bad protocols.
Yeah, the sample sizes with NBA teams are necessarily small, so the extra one to two cases are going to represent nothing more than noise. Honestly I'm shocked that there haven't been more cases league-wide given the risks.
 

nighthob

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My wife is a pharmacist who has been giving COVID vaccines (both brands) since January to allow crazy people like you to spew nonsense on a message board. So yeah, she follows this stuff too. And all too often she has to deal with this type of shit. So kindly go fuck yourself.
Are you saying that my planning to vaccinate because covid and its side effects suck diseased donkey balls and I don't want one of the even worse side strains is crazy? Because given my luck I would totally catch the Brazilian strain even though I've already had the main one.

But, we former covid cases have been advised to let others go first in the vaccination line because we do have some immunity to the side strains. So I'll wait until summer when the supplies are greater and people in higher risk categories have been able to get their vaccines. And I'll still be avoiding the vaccine with the higher rates of side effects given that I fall into a high risk category for suffering them.
 

Cesar Crespo

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We can cut Waters too. Maybe Edwards as well, though I have an irrational soft spot for him.

Waters wouldn't free up a spot for IT. Nor would Tacko.

And why do we want IT? We already have a PG with a fork in his back.
 

TripleOT

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Wagner has his faults, but he at least isn’t afraid to throw his body around. This team lacks toughness. IDK if Wagner can give them any, but he will not back down, at least.

There aren’t enough guys on this roster I’d want want with me in a proverbial dark alley. Smart and Thompson. Maybe Semi, who should play with more of an edge. I liked the toughness Wanamaker brought to this team last season.

Embiid clowned the Celtics for three games. Instead of touch fouling him, they should have been hammering away at him.
 

Cellar-Door

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Wagner has his faults, but he at least isn’t afraid to throw his body around. This team lacks toughness. IDK if Wagner can give them any, but he will not back down, at least.

There aren’t enough guys on this roster I’d want want with me in a proverbial dark alley. Smart and Thompson. Maybe Semi, who should play with more of an edge. I liked the toughness Wanamaker brought to this team last season.

Embiid clowned the Celtics for three games. Instead of touch fouling him, they should have been hammering away at him.
Wagner couldn't find the dark alley with GPS, a tour guide, and 2 aircraft Marshalls.

The Celtics problem isn't a lack of toughness, it's a failure to have players make the right decision and movements on defense.

Wagner got benched after he blew 2 switches, lost his man on a non-switch, and generally couldn't figure out where to be.

Hard fouls are dumb in this era, all they do is invite flagrant calls. The biggest problem last night for Rob was he committed DUMB fouls, instead of doing what he should (and what has to an extent worked for us in the past against Embiid) and made good positional play to make Embiid take tough shots.You aren't muscling Embiid or blocking him, you just need to make him take jumpers as often as possible. Some of that is smart positional play, some of that is better work on the perimeter to make entry passes harder.
 

chilidawg

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Totally disagree. This team lacks physical toughness, and certainly lacks mental toughness.
Certainly mental toughness. When the Sixers ramped up the defensive pressure in the 2nd quarter the C's responded by throwing the ball every which way. The rebounding numbers suggest they're just not a physical a team as well. I agree though that flagrant foul type toughness just is dumb.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Rebounding is barely related to physical toughness in the year 2021.
Apropos of nothing. There are 3 guards in the Top-20 RPG. Two of them are Westbrook and Doncic. If anyone can get the 3rd without cheating I’ll eat a log of Rocco’s shit.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Yeah, It's Harden. Why would that shock anyone? That's an easy guess. Am I missing something?

edit: I guess most would say Simmons. Those who didn't would say Harden though.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yeah, It's Harden. Why would that shock anyone? That's an easy guess. Am I missing something?

edit: I guess most would say Simmons. Those who didn't would say Harden though.
The one I saw had Josh Hart at #20 with 8.0 ahead of Harden.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Josh, and he's a small forward isn't he?

Jason Hart is a PG who washed out of the league a decade ago. He played with 9 different teams in 9 seasons.
Yeah I corrected just after I posted. Syracuse Orangeman Jason.

Meh, semantics. Do the Pelicans play 3 guards or is Hart listed as a F? Anyway, thought it was pretty shocking that he was #20 in the entire league despite not even playing 30 mpg. Crazy.

Edit: He actually is 12th in the league in Total Def Reb while competing with Adam’s and Zion on his own team!! What in the living?
 

chilidawg

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Good piece in the Athletic about Brown and Tatum responding to the Sixers game.

“Yesterday was a tough one for us,” Brown said. “That wasn’t our best showing. I talked to JT before the game, and we almost had to just forget about everything. I said, ‘Let’s come out and play basketball. Be aggressive and be the best version of ourselves.’”

https://theathletic.com/2505845/2021/04/08/jaylen-brown-and-jayson-tatum-talk-it-through-and-the-celtics-find-some-daylight/?source=dailyemail

I thought Brown especially was aggressive all game. Missed some shots, but the effort was top drawer.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Do they win with Kemba on the floor yesterday? It's clear the offense is just not going to be good without Fournier, so I think the key to winning without him is to put as much defense on the floor as possible and try to grind out a defensive slugfest. Kemba makes that very difficult.
 

TripleOT

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Do they win with Kemba on the floor yesterday? It's clear the offense is just not going to be good without Fournier, so I think the key to winning without him is to put as much defense on the floor as possible and try to grind out a defensive slugfest. Kemba makes that very difficult.
With the line up to start the Knicks game, JT, JB, TL, Smart, and Romeo, it was no surprise that they clamped down on the Knicks defensively. That group is totally switchable.

When Kemba starts, he gets exploited and his man scores, or he needs help, which puts the team into rotation, leading to confidence building open threes.

No solution for this, unfortunately, since turning a highly paid multi-time all star into a sixth man probably isn’t going to happen.
 

Koufax

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You're right. In the playoffs he'll be the 7th man. Playoff Brad will be brutal, or at least I hope he will.
 

HomeRunBaker

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You're right. In the playoffs he'll be the 7th man. Playoff Brad will be brutal, or at least I hope he will.
That could result in some ugly offensive 1Q on the nights slow-start Tatum shows up but I agree that Kemba needs to reinvent himself as a 2nd unit scorer in the Lou Will/Clarkson mold who won’t get nearly as exposed defensively agaiant 2nd unit guards.

Edit: Disresgard. Completely forgetting Fournier exists and was thinking of last nights lineup. Need coffee.
 

CreightonGubanich

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If Kemba continues at his current performance level, such that Evan Fournier becomes the more important offensive player, and the Celtics have Langford available as a defensive option on the wing allowing them to play Smart at the point, Kemba will definitely be coming off the bench in the playoffs, if not before.
 

Koufax

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For the sake of his ego he might start, but his minutes will likely be limited and most of them will be with other rotation non-starter players. Fournier will get more minutes and Romeo may as well, especially since he seems to have developed a three-point shot.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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If Kemba continues at his current performance level, such that Evan Fournier becomes the more important offensive player, and the Celtics have Langford available as a defensive option on the wing allowing them to play Smart at the point, Kemba will definitely be coming off the bench in the playoffs, if not before.
As Koufax says, so long KW is healthy, Brad is going to start him for the remainder of this season. He may not play 35 minutes a game in the playoffs and I'm sure Brad will go offense/defense as much as possible but Brad is not benching KW.
 

Cellar-Door

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As Koufax says, so long KW is healthy, Brad is going to start him for the remainder of this season. He may not play 35 minutes a game in the playoffs and I'm sure Brad will go offense/defense as much as possible but Brad is not benching KW.
I think there are some reasons to be optimistic about Kemba when looking at splits. His eFG%, AST% and net rating have gone up each month, and his USG has declined. He is settling into a role as more of a facilitator. Now the defense is going to be the question, but there are some signs there as well though less clearcut.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I think there are some reasons to be optimistic about Kemba when looking at splits. His eFG%, AST% and net rating have gone up each month, and his USG has declined. He is settling into a role as more of a facilitator. Now the defense is going to be the question, but there are some signs there as well though less clearcut.
Kemba in his first 3 years in CHA had AST% of 30.2%, 31.2% and 29.7%. Last year he was 24.2% (which was a career low) and this year it's at 23.6%. Maybe that's a function that he can't get open on his own quite as well but it would be awesome if he could get back to or even over 30%.
 

CreightonGubanich

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As Koufax says, so long KW is healthy, Brad is going to start him for the remainder of this season. He may not play 35 minutes a game in the playoffs and I'm sure Brad will go offense/defense as much as possible but Brad is not benching KW.
Maybe not in the regular season, but in the playoffs, I'm not so sure that's true. I know Brad likes to talk about how it doesn't matter who starts, but it kind of does. This team continues to start games lethargically, dig itself a huge hole, and then scramble to try to climb out of it. Now, there's a whole lot going on there beyond Kemba, but he does make it really tough for what should be a good defensive starting group to consistently get stops. Letting the rest of that group establish a defensive identity by starting Smart and Langford, while Kemba gets his minutes more frequently against other teams' bench guys, makes a lot of sense.

I'm not actually down on Kemba, overall. I probably wouldn't make that move, and I think Kemba will continue to be really important player for them if he's healthy. But, there's a case to be made that starting Kemba and playing him 32 minutes a night isn't putting him or the team in the best position to succeed.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Kemba in his first 3 years in CHA had AST% of 30.2%, 31.2% and 29.7%. Last year he was 24.2% (which was a career low) and this year it's at 23.6%. Maybe that's a function that he can't get open on his own quite as well but it would be awesome if he could get back to or even over 30%.
Our offense isn’t designed this way as the ball is often in JT or JB’s hands initiating the offense. In Charlotte, the ball was always in Kemba’s hands doing the probing.