Analysis of Celtics Games (2020-2021)

[benhogan]

I never understood people who thought Waters was a better prospect than CE. CE has NBA range, that's for sure, and he certainly (as the clip below shows) has NBA athleticism for a 5'11" guard.
https://twitter.com/search?q=carsen edwards&src=typed_query&f=live

With PP gone for the next month, maybe we see some minutes for CE. He's not bad with the ball in his hands (his role at Purdue)

I'd like Danny to decide on Carsen or Tremont at some point. Tre turns the ball over too much for my liking and they are financially committed to CE. So the decision isn't very difficult IMO.

I'm still a little ticked that Danny didn't use this deep draft to add an undrafted rookie for the two way and move on from Waters (Myself and others liked Mason Jones for that spot the night of the draft)

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

With PP gone for the next month, maybe we see some minutes for CE. He's not bad with the ball in his hands (his role at Purdue)

I'd like Danny to decide on Carsen or Tremont at some point. Tre turns the ball over too much for my liking and they are financially committed to CE. So the decision isn't very difficult IMO.

I'm still a little ticked that Danny didn't use this deep draft to add an undrafted rookie for the two way and move on from Waters (Myself and others liked Mason Jones for that spot the night of the draft)

Yeah, not sure why DA kept Tremont - although it's possible that DA gave Tremont some sort of promise of a couple of years to get him to sign the original 2-way contract. And if you recall, there were stories last year that some NBA personnel people saw Tremont as a third guard last year.

As far as CE, my imperfect memory suggests that playing him and TW together doesn't work for Edwards. TW is too much of ball dominant PG to work well with CE. Just my not-statistically-backed-up thought for today.

 

[128]

well, to my eyes, it wasn't like the Cavs were running a lot of super sophisticated motion that Nesmith had to defend.

Hence my caveat about it all essentially being garbage time for Nesmith.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

It's been said on the broadcast but Carsen really needs to take it to the hoop first before he goes into 3pt launch mode. I also like that he fights through screens at the top. That can earn him a few more minutes.

I still like the idea of Nesmith getting at least 4-5 mpg (instead of DNP-CD). Just live with the regular season results and see if he develops by the playoffs.

Carsen at least has NBA quickness and leaping ability to boot. For a little guy he does flash some ability to get to the rim (against bad defense but still). Maybe he puts something together. When he has looked bad it's usually because he's forcing it too much. His size/D will be limiting but could he be a hot pocket scorer? It's possible, and he is at least feisty, if very handsy, on D. He is certainly several steps up from Waters who is simply overmatched on an NBA court.

I think the big question is whether Edwards can take it to the hoop when teams are actually playing defense, and whether you want him to be taking it to the hoop when he's on the court with better players. When Kemba, Tatum, Brown are in the game, Edwards should be sitting behind the 3 point line and that's not his game.

Tremont Waters is useless though. I thought he was a better prospect but I didn't think he, Edwards or Fall would develop into anything useful.

 

[amarshal2]

I think the big question is whether Edwards can take it to the hoop when teams are actually playing defense, and whether you want him to be taking it to the hoop when he's on the court with better players. When Kemba, Tatum, Brown are in the game, Edwards should be sitting behind the 3 point line and that's not his game.

Tremont Waters is useless though. I thought he was a better prospect but I didn't think he, Edwards or Fall would develop into anything useful.

I think the point was for Edwards to only be on the court against subs when they need a 2nd offensive option. You don't want him taking it to the hoop if you've got two of those guys but if there's just one it could keep defenses from keying in on the one guy out there. He hasn't proven it (dude continues his streak of only playing well vs. Cleveland) but it seems like he's got an opportunity here with PP out and Teague washed.

I try and be deliberate when I change evaluation. I thought Waters was better late last year. Last year he showed incredible ball control and the ability to move it anywhere on the court and play other guys into open shots. Not seeing that this year. He also shot 3's at a higher clip than CE in the g-league. It doesn't really matter because their upsides are quite low and if the celtics need to move on from one it can be whoever is currently playing worse between the two.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Grant, sigh. Disappointing so far. While highly intelligent and self-aware I'm afraid he gets up in his head too much. I expect he'll eventually develop a corner 3pt shot which adds a lot of value around Kemba/JayCrew

This. Bright, bright kid. Likeable, works hard. But man does he look awful most nights. He's so lost. He needs a few easy wins to get his mojo back. I think that Brad needs to manage him even more tightly on a matchup basis for a couple of weeks and cut out the swiss army knife approach. He's not ready for a challenge right now.

 

[joe dokes]

Teague played 12 minutes and didn't shoot.
12 minutes 2 turnovers 1 assist.
That is not an easy line to attain.

I just came across this and wondered....what's the most minutes played with an "all zeroes" box score."? (including shot attempts)
I came across this story:
https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/Worst-NBA-Stat-LinesWhich includes this:

Kenny Walker while playing for the Bullets in a game against the Hawks. 12 minutes played, 0 FGA, 0 FTA, 0 TRB, 0 AST, 0 TOV, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 0 PF, 0 PTS.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

This. Bright, bright kid. Likeable, works hard. But man does he look awful most nights. He's so lost. He needs a few easy wins to get his mojo back. I think that Brad needs to manage him even more tightly on a matchup basis for a couple of weeks and cut out the swiss army knife approach. He's not ready for a challenge right now.

I think I asked this in the game thread, but what does Grant Williams do that Semi cant? Semi should be getting 25 minutes a night at the expense of Grant Williams.

I also didn't notice just how foul prone the guy is. He leads the Celtics in fouls at 3.2 per game, and in Fouls/36 at 6.1. TT is 2nd at 4.5/36. Last year, Grant was at 5.6 PF. I'm not sure where he gets minutes and if last night wasn't a blow out, he probably gets a DNP-CD.

I have him as 11th best player on the C's right now. I'd also rather the C's give minutes to Nesmith and Langford when he's back.

I'm sure Grant will find time because injuries are always a thing.

 

[reggiecleveland]

I just came across this and wondered....what's the most minutes played with an "all zeroes" box score."? (including shot attempts)
I came across this story:
https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/Worst-NBA-Stat-LinesWhich includes this:

Used to call the all zeros "a trillion". Guys often foul just to avoid it. Some teams had guys with the highest trillion (minutes played is 1st column) buy everyone a meal at end of the year.

http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2016/02/a-look-at-tony-snells-eight-trillion-and-who-is-most-likely-to-follow-it-up/#:~:text=writer Mark Titus on his,of zeroes after minutes played.

 

[lovegtm]

I think I asked this in the game thread, but what does Grant Williams do that Semi cant? Semi should be getting 25 minutes a night at the expense of Grant Williams.

I also didn't notice just how foul prone the guy is. He leads the Celtics in fouls at 3.2 per game, and in Fouls/36 at 6.1. TT is 2nd at 4.5/36. Last year, Grant was at 5.6 PF. I'm not sure where he gets minutes and if last night wasn't a blow out, he probably gets a DNP-CD.

I have him as 11th best player on the C's right now. I'd also rather the C's give minutes to Nesmith and Langford when he's back.

I'm sure Grant will find time because injuries are always a thing.

What he can do, in theory, is defend--he blocks a lot more shots than Semi (not hard to do), and is(was) a smart team defender. He also, in theory, can play in space and pass better than Semi.

Obviously none of that is happening this year. I haven't seen a guy regress this bad defensively in awhile, and he looks completely in his head and overmatched on offense, more so than last year. Who the hell knows.

 

[benhogan]

I have him as 11th best player on the C's right now. I'd also rather the C's give minutes to Nesmith and Langford when he's back.

I'm sure Grant will find time because injuries are always a thing.

I think that's fair. Semi is very deserving of those bench wing minutes, he's been efficient. I like the idea of investing spare regular-season minutes in Nesmith/Langford. Building young/controlled equity will be important with a $28.5MM TPE at the trade deadline or this summer.

The funny part, in the bubble, we were asking the exact opposite question: Why is Semi on the floor and not Grant?

 

[NomarsFool]

To quote my own post from the Grant Williams thread, which was initially titled something about GW vs. Semi (changed by the mods)

"This seems like it could be one of the big battles for playing time on the roster. Semi has been a fan favorite for a few years now because of his legendary weight-room heroics. But, in my opinion, we are all still waiting for him to become the 3 and D player we thought he'd become (son of Marcus).

It's of course super early, but it's hard for me to see what Semi brings to the table that Grant Williams does not, and it seems like Grant has a much bigger upside and brings more to the table even now. GW's passing is much better than Semi, and GW's offensive game is far superior. Bottom line, it's hard for me to see why Semi should play over GW."

I thought GW's offensive game was superior to Semi, but this season, that is definitely NOT true. Semi has improved his 3P shot and even showing some moves off the dribble. Meanwhile, GW has regressed both offensively and defensively.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I think I asked this in the game thread, but what does Grant Williams do that Semi cant? Semi should be getting 25 minutes a night at the expense of Grant Williams.

I also didn't notice just how foul prone the guy is. He leads the Celtics in fouls at 3.2 per game, and in Fouls/36 at 6.1. TT is 2nd at 4.5/36. Last year, Grant was at 5.6 PF. I'm not sure where he gets minutes and if last night wasn't a blow out, he probably gets a DNP-CD.

I have him as 11th best player on the C's right now. I'd also rather the C's give minutes to Nesmith and Langford when he's back.

I'm sure Grant will find time because injuries are always a thing.

I think that developed Grant (not current Grant) has a better base against bigger guys and some semblance of a useful garbageman role around the hoop. He has experience as a scoring option in college that maybe could be tapped as second unit offense.

I think that's what people are dreaming on. He is potentially a 3&D tweener who can swing the ball in the pivot, set good screens, body bigger guys, and help the offensive flow.

None of that is there now obviously. As a 3&D guy, no he gives nothing that Semi doesn't.

 

[Euclis20]

well, to my eyes, it wasn't like the Cavs were running a lot of super sophisticated motion that Nesmith had to defend. Still, if the game can keep slowing down for him, that would be great.



I never understood people who thought Waters was a better prospect than CE. CE has NBA range, that's for sure, and he certainly (as the clip below shows) has NBA athleticism for a 5'11" guard.

I keep thinking back to Shake Milton and Duncan Robinson. Both of them are, well, defensively-challenged (although I think it is more effort on Milton's part than Robinson's part) but they were force-fed minutes and they learned how to score/shoot in the NBA. Would like to see CE get minutes too even if it results in some losses as his scoring is something that the 2nd unit sorely lacks.

https://twitter.com/search?q=carsen edwards&src=typed_query&f=live

Milton and Robinson are in a different category than Edwards, as they both have NBA size (6'5 and 6'7 respectively, and both have a reported wingspan of around 7'). This gives them a completely different ceiling than Edwards, much more worth the time and effort to live through their growing pains. Edwards plays a bit bigger than his height (he does have NBA athleticism and is pretty long for a guy under 6 feet) but Milton is a 6th man of the year candidate and Robinson is perhaps the best high volume 3 point shooter in the league. I don't see Edwards' best case scenario being anywhere near as useful as those two guys are right now, let alone in the future.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Milton and Robinson are in a different category than Edwards, as they both have NBA size (6'5 and 6'7 respectively, and both have a reported wingspan of around 7'). This gives them a completely different ceiling than Edwards, much more worth the time and effort to live through their growing pains. Edwards plays a bit bigger than his height (he does have NBA athleticism and is pretty long for a guy under 6 feet) but Milton is a 6th man of the year candidate and Robinson is perhaps the best high volume 3 point shooter in the league. I don't see Edwards' best case scenario being anywhere near as useful as those two guys are right now, let alone in the future.

I'm not expecting Edwards to turn into a 6th man of the year candidate or someone who shoots 45% on 3Ps but the point I am making that neither Robinson nor Milton played much the first year but got minutes in the second year even though they didn't play a lick of defense. Guys have to play to develop. CE may not have NBA size but he certainly has NBA range and if they can develop him, he would have a lot of gravity that could affect the offensive side of the court.

I also understand that for every Milton and Robinson and Harris, there are a ton of shooters that don't make it so CE could still wash out but he'd be a great asset if he could get more consistent.

 

[Kliq]

Nesmith with another airball last night, though. A miss is a miss - so not a big deal. It's interesting, though, that he's had some airballs on pretty low volume. Just nerves, I'm sure. I'm glad CBS is getting him some minutes - but my plan after the draft that he'd be able to contribute this season isn't looking great. Time will tell, though.

Not sure what is going on with GW. After getting some starts, he didn't see any action until absolute garbage time against Cleveland (he didn't show up in the first half, right?). As Scal mentioned on one of the broadcasts, GW needs to be able to get some buckets while he's out there to be a rotation player - and he just doesn't seem to be able to do it. I think he got blocked when he tried to post up last night (again). I had been surprised that he wouldn't be able to have more of a lowpost game in certain matchups, but maybe the issue is that someone just comes over and helps when he does that. So, his offense likely needs to come from moving without the ball on cuts and catch and shoot threes.

Not to over-analyze one play, but the Nesmith airball was a strange play. Basically he was open in the corner; Edwards didn't give him the ball right away when it was the obvious play, so he started cutting to the basket. Right when he started to cut, Edwards swung the ball to him and he had to adjust to the pass coming in behind him, and then he kind of rushed the shot as his feet weren't set. If Edwards just makes the pass faster, he probably makes the shot because he was wide open.

 

[bakahump]

Change the Name of this Thread (or at least Gwills) to Mea Culpa, Semi.

 

[Euclis20]

I'm not expecting Edwards to turn into a 6th man of the year candidate or someone who shoots 45% on 3Ps but the point I am making that neither Robinson nor Milton played much the first year but got minutes in the second year even though they didn't play a lick of defense. Guys have to play to develop. CE may not have NBA size but he certainly has NBA range and if they can develop him, he would have a lot of gravity that could affect the offensive side of the court.

I also understand that for every Milton and Robinson and Harris, there are a ton of shooters that don't make it so CE could still wash out but he'd be a great asset if he could get more consistent.

Sure, but there's a limit to how much time you give a player to develop. That amount of rope varies, but generally guys with a higher ceiling would get more time to develop, and guys with lower ceilings would get less time. This is especially the case on teams that are expecting to compete for a title, right now. Edwards is hitting just 31% of his 3s in his NBA career. It's still a small sample, but in the G league last year he hit under 28% of his 3s (on about 120 shots). Given his relatively low ceiling, how much more time does he get to prove he belongs?

There are currently a lot of available guard minutes on the Celtics, but there are guys coming back ahead of Edwards on the depth chart (Kemba/Pritchard/Romeo) that should soak up all of his playing time. Maybe this just sorts itself out naturally. When guys are healthy he serves no current purpose, and his upside (such as it is) isn't enough to justify giving him minutes over better players, some of whom (Pritchard, Romeo) also have plenty of room to improve.

 

[OurF'ingCity]

Sure, but there's a limit to how much time you give a player to develop. That amount of rope varies, but generally guys with a higher ceiling would get more time to develop, and guys with lower ceilings would get less time. This is especially the case on teams that are expecting to compete for a title, right now. Edwards is hitting just 31% of his 3s in his NBA career. It's still a small sample, but in the G league last year he hit under 28% of his 3s (on about 120 shots). Given his relatively low ceiling, how much more time does he get to prove he belongs?

There are currently a lot of available guard minutes on the Celtics, but there are guys coming back ahead of Edwards on the depth chart (Kemba/Pritchard/Romeo) that should soak up all of his playing time. Maybe this just sorts itself out naturally. When guys are healthy he serves no current purpose, and his upside (such as it is) isn't enough to justify giving him minutes over better players, some of whom (Pritchard, Romeo) also have plenty of room to improve.

Yep, at this point Edwards is a deep depth piece who at his best is a net plus during the regular season when injuries crop up like they have currently. But these are the kind of guys GMs don't hesitate to cut/throw-in to a trade/etc. if they need to open a roster spot. For the reasons above I have a hard time ever seeing Edwards become more than that, and, if he does, I suspect it is on a different team where he doesn't have so many guys in front of him.

 

[NomarsFool]

It's a tough situation, as I think between Semi, Grant Williams, Langford (eventually), Javonte Green, and to a much lesser extent Edwards - the Celtics need a couple of those guys to hit the point where they can be regular, reliable contributors to the eventual playoff rotation. But, it seems like they are all just getting a little bit of a taste. You'd almost sort of like to see Brad just run with a few of them for 20 minutes a night (or whatever the right number is) for 20 games and be able to definitively answer whether they are the right guy or not.

Further thought, including Edwards in that list is probably not appropriate - as I'm not sure there's ever going to be a situation where he is a regular part of the rotation barring a couple of injuries.

 

[Euclis20]

A few factors might have made Waters and Edwards completely redundant going forward:

-Kemba's health
-Pritchard's emergence

Of the 96 minutes available for guards in the playoffs, those two (and Smart) should account for at least 80 of them. The remaining time (if there is any, it's not hard to imagine Kemba/Smart each getting 35 and Pritchard getting 25) would go to some combination of Teague/Romeo/Green, with Brown potentially grabbing a few in bigger lineups. Edwards (and Waters) are just really far out of the picture, unless there are multiple injuries. Neither guy has the ceiling to justify extended play this year.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Edwards (and Waters) are just really far out of the picture, unless there are multiple injuries. Neither guy has the ceiling to justify extended play this year.

I agree that Waters ceiling is limited but I guess I don't understand how you are using that term with regards to Edwards. From my perspective, Edwards is getting open to wide open shots but he's just not making them. (SSS and everything but he hit two really tough 3Ps in the last two games - the step back vs. CLE and the contested one last night) and he's missing on open catch and shoot 3s.

We all know he can hit those shots. For whatever reason, he hasn't. But if he does, his ceiling is a very to extremely useful NBA player IMO, particularly given his range.

CE has scored more than 6 points in back-to-back games for the first time in his career. (It's also the first time he's played more than 10 minutes in back-to-back games since November 2019.) Hopefully he builds on this.

 

[lovegtm]

I agree that Waters ceiling is limited but I guess I don't understand how you are using that term with regards to Edwards. From my perspective, Edwards is getting open to wide open shots but he's just not making them. (SSS and everything but he hit two really tough 3Ps in the last two games - the step back vs. CLE and the contested one last night) and he's missing on open catch and shoot 3s.

We all know he can hit those shots. For whatever reason, he hasn't. But if he does, his ceiling is a very to extremely useful NBA player IMO, particularly given his range.

CE has scored more than 6 points in back-to-back games for the first time in his career. (It's also the first time he's played more than 10 minutes in back-to-back games since November 2019.) Hopefully he builds on this.

I think the Celtics are intrigued by Edwards explosiveness attacking off the catch. It's better than I anticipated. But yeah, his whole career is going to come down to whether he can recapture his launching ability from college.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I think the Celtics are intrigued by Edwards explosiveness attacking off the catch. It's better than I anticipated. But yeah, his whole career is going to come down to whether he can recapture his launching ability from college.

He can launch but will the ball go in the bucket?

Seriously, and I hesitate to say this but why not, I'm bored - 'Arsen is basically unguardable. The shots he takes with his release and the fact that he can get to the rim and hit a pull-up - I remember him getting the Chris Jackson treatment in college (sending two guys at him) and he'd still score. And it doesn't seem to me that NBA defenders are really affecting most of his shots. He's just not making them. Maybe he's speeding up in his mind because the game hasn't slowed down - also, I don't think he took a lot of catch and shoot 3s in college so that's a new skill for him to hearn - but if he can ever get settled down, I think he has a pretty decent ceiling.

 

[lovegtm]

He can launch but will the ball go in the bucket?

Seriously, and I hesitate to say this but why not, I'm bored - 'Arsen is basically unguardable. The shots he takes with his release and the fact that he can get to the rim and hit a pull-up - I remember him getting the Chris Jackson treatment in college (sending two guys at him) and he'd still score. And it doesn't seem to me that NBA defenders are really affecting most of his shots. He's just not making them. Maybe he's speeding up in his mind because the game hasn't slowed down - also, I don't think he took a lot of catch and shoot 3s in college so that's a new skill for him to hearn - but if he can ever get settled down, I think he has a pretty decent ceiling.

Yeah, this was definitely the theory that led to his getting a 4-year deal. Idk...I wouldn’t be shocked if he can become useful after a couple years, but the odds are against him.

 

[Euclis20]

I agree that Waters ceiling is limited but I guess I don't understand how you are using that term with regards to Edwards. From my perspective, Edwards is getting open to wide open shots but he's just not making them. (SSS and everything but he hit two really tough 3Ps in the last two games - the step back vs. CLE and the contested one last night) and he's missing on open catch and shoot 3s.

We all know he can hit those shots. For whatever reason, he hasn't. But if he does, his ceiling is a very to extremely useful NBA player IMO, particularly given his range.

CE has scored more than 6 points in back-to-back games for the first time in his career. (It's also the first time he's played more than 10 minutes in back-to-back games since November 2019.) Hopefully he builds on this.

Here's the thing though - not really. In his professional career (NBA and G league), he's shooting 29% from behind the arc on just over 200 attempts. In college, he hit 37% from behind the arc (yes, that number is better than it sounds given his volume and range). He does appear to be able to get open and get his shot off (although most of his experience is in garbage time with the other team barely playing defense), but I don't see much evidence that he'll end up shooting well enough (38%?) to justify his continued presence on the court, when he's below average (at best) at every other aspect of NBA basketball. He'll get a few minutes when multiple guys ahead of him are injured or getting a day off and it's not worth cutting him (his upside is enough to justify a spot at the end of the bench, plus his contract), so he'll get a reasonable number of minutes over the coming months and years almost by default, but I'm not hopeful.

 

[NomarsFool]

Interesting last night we saw CE off the bench relatively early (first group, maybe?). He got a fairly extended run as well. I wonder if Brad might give him a shot with PP's minutes while he's out, as Jeff Teague certainly has not been stellar.

I thought it was also interesting how long it took for Grant to get into the game - not until the 4Q. Wasn't thrilled to see the 2-BIG lineup out there.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Interesting last night we saw CE off the bench relatively early (first group, maybe?). He got a fairly extended run as well. I wonder if Brad might give him a shot with PP's minutes while he's out, as Jeff Teague certainly has not been stellar.

I thought it was also interesting how long it took for Grant to get into the game - not until the 4Q. Wasn't thrilled to see the 2-BIG lineup out there.

Good observation on Grant. He's definitely losing minutes.

They're giving Edwards some run to see how he handles it, and so far he looks ok. He'll always be a shrimp and have problems from that (corner three guys completely disregard his contests, for example). But he was using his feet and hands well on defense last night and not terrible offensively. Maybe it's something to build on for deep depth. Being able to stay on the floor and not be a black hole has value in covid times.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

but I don't see much evidence that he'll end up shooting well enough (38%?) to justify his continued presence on the court

This is all SSS but I agree that he hasn't hit the shots but I don't agree that he can't.

CE is shooting 12.5% on catch and shoot 3Ps (1-8; last year he was 12-41 or 29.3%). He is, however, hitting 60% on pull-up 3Ps (last year was 11-34 or 32.4%). If he hit one more catch and shoot 3Ps, he'd be shooting over 38% on 3Ps. And I think you'll agree, you can think of multiple C&S 3Ps that were wiiiide open. Note that he's also 3-4 when he takes 2 or more dribbles which suggests to me that he uses dribble to get his balance and he has to learn to be balanced when he shoots without dribbling.

One other thing. He's 1-1 when the defender is within 0-2 feet (1-3 last year); 0-2 when defender is between 2-4 feet (8-24 last year); 2-2 when defender is between 4-6 feet (6-27 last year), and 1-8 when defender is 6' or more away from him (Note: numbers last year were 1-3 / 8-24 / 6-27 / and 9-22 or 40.9% on wide open 3Ps).

I think he has demonstrated he can hit these shots, while again I realize that he hasn't. So I'm hopeful. I also think that he probably puts on some outrageous shooting demonstrations in practice and scrimmages. I think that will probably translate into games at some point but as others have said, maybe not on this contract and with another team who is more able to ride streaks of bad shooting for a while.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Interesting last night we saw CE off the bench relatively early (first group, maybe?). He got a fairly extended run as well. I wonder if Brad might give him a shot with PP's minutes while he's out, as Jeff Teague certainly has not been stellar.

I thought it was also interesting how long it took for Grant to get into the game - not until the 4Q. Wasn't thrilled to see the 2-BIG lineup out there.

I think CE was the first guy off the bench. IIRC, he didn't do much other than a backdoor layup and at least one steal, but he also didn't touch the ball. If I was Brad, I wouldn't play him when two of JB/JT/KW are on the court because he won't touch the ball.

I believe Nesmith was the 1st guy off the bench in the 2H. Maybe Brad was rewarding him for seeing the ball go through the hoop.

 

[reggiecleveland]

Interesting last night we saw CE off the bench relatively early (first group, maybe?). He got a fairly extended run as well. I wonder if Brad might give him a shot with PP's minutes while he's out, as Jeff Teague certainly has not been stellar.

I thought it was also interesting how long it took for Grant to get into the game - not until the 4Q. Wasn't thrilled to see the 2-BIG lineup out there.

That seems to be exactly what has happened. Brad clearly likes what Pp brought with another ball handler, pressure the ball shooter. I trust Scal due to his proximity to the team feeling Edwards does everything better when he hits a shot or two. Better d, better movement on O, etc.

Wasn't thrilled to see the 2-BIG lineup out there.

All lineups are really about if guys are playing well. Theis was struggling to start the season, but he is starting to score. Both he and TT are more comfortable on O. Plus they were up 30 at the time.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Good observation on Grant. He's definitely losing minutes.

Think Scal is correct that Grant is much better playing small-ball 5 than he is playing the 4 along another big. Which is a problem for Grant given the way the roster is constructed. Perhaps he can play better with RWill than TT or Theis.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

He does appear to be able to get open and get his shot off.

The Celtics actually could use a player like that if Arsen worked out. He'd surely get some burn in the 2nd unit. If Waters works out, he's still buried on the bench.

I think both won't offer any value to the C's over their contracts and may be out of the NBA by the time they are up for a 2nd, but with the emergence of PP, Tremont is dead in the waters.

Outside of Tatum, Brown and Walker, this team doesn't really have a "true scorer" or whatever you want to call it and only one of those players really presents a problem being on the court with him.

 

[Euclis20]

Sure could, but I haven't seen evidence that he's actually going to be that player. At the moment, there are a LOT of guys in front of him for those 96 backcourt minutes: Kemba, Pritchard, Teague, Smart, Romeo (and potentially a few minutes for Brown in bigger lineups). All of these guys are better now and in the immediate future (the playoffs this year), which is what this team needs to be thinking about. If the Celtics just wanted an undersized guard to miss open shots off the dribble they could give more minutes to Teague, who has actually proven he can be useful (his 2p% is godawful this year but he's proven to be decent in that regard historically, plus he's shooting 43% from 3, plus he's actually got playmaking chops that Edwards has never shown at any level).

He'll get some time here and there with Pritchard/Romeo out and Kemba getting extended rest, but beyond that I don't see a role unless he improves tremendously. It's a cold, harsh world for shooting guards under 6 feet.

 

[RorschachsMask]

Good luck defending this.

View: https://twitter.com/taylorcsnow/status/1354172837741867012?s=20

 

[BigSoxFan]

Good luck defending this.

View: https://twitter.com/taylorcsnow/status/1354172837741867012?s=20

In case anyone else is wondering, because I wasn't familiar with the term, "above the break" means any 3 that's not taken from the corners. So, that's a pretty meaningful stat and great to see. Now, if you can just add an elite corner 3 guy to the Jay's...

 

[RorschachsMask]

In case anyone else is wondering, because I wasn't familiar with the term, "above the break" means any 3 that's not taken from the corners. So, that's a pretty meaningful stat and great to see. Now, if you can just add an elite corner 3 guy to the Jay's...

Jaylen had a very good first step anyways, being a threat to pull up from outside makes it almost not fair.

 

[TripleOT]

Kemba is good above the break too. Kemba at 70% self generated threes and Tatum at 53% self generated is double trouble. Brown is now starting to self generate a few more threes, but he’s mostly catch and shoot still.

 

[RorschachsMask]

Kemba is good above the break too. Kemba at 70% self generated threes and Tatum at 53% self generated is double trouble. Brown is now starting to self generate a few more threes, but he’s mostly catch and shoot still.

Yeah I was actually somewhat surprised that Jaylens unassisted threes was at 80%, would have guessed lower than that.

Tatum is shooting 44% from deep, and 47% of his threes are unassisted. That’s pretty crazy, and unstoppable.

 

[TripleOT]

The Celtics need to use these three weapons early in game to put up big first quarters, and not just by hoisting threes. This kind of shooting spreads the floor, and good drivers should be able to get to the rim early and often.

As the Jays mature, they should be setting up wins in the first ten minutes of games, like great teams do.

 

[benhogan]

In case anyone else is wondering, because I wasn't familiar with the term, "above the break" means any 3 that's not taken from the corners. So, that's a pretty meaningful stat and great to see. Now, if you can just add an elite corner 3 guy to the Jay's...

hmmmm. who do we know that has hit 50% of his corner 3s over his career (on huge volume)?

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I think he [Edwards] has demonstrated he can hit these shots, while again I realize that he hasn't. So I'm hopeful. I also think that he probably puts on some outrageous shooting demonstrations in practice and scrimmages. I think that will probably translate into games at some point but as others have said, maybe not on this contract and with another team who is more able to ride streaks of bad shooting for a while.

I think this is right. He seems like a guy who may go to Europe for a couple of years and then come back into a situation that works for him and have a few decent years as a shooter off the bench.

 

[slamminsammya]

Yeah I was actually somewhat surprised that Jaylens unassisted threes was at 80%, would have guessed lower than that.

Tatum is shooting 44% from deep, and 47% of his threes are unassisted. That’s pretty crazy, and unstoppable.

Also remarkable because his step back has been no good this year. I think most of those off the dribble threes are coming around a high screen and stepping into it, which Kemba is also a master at.

 

[RorschachsMask]

Also remarkable because his step back has been no good this year. I think most of those off the dribble threes are coming around a high screen and stepping into it, which Kemba is also a master at.

I love the step back as a weapon in the arsenal, but him stepping into a three off a screen is a far better shot, and defenses have no chance.

 

[HowBoutDemSox]

I love the step back as a weapon in the arsenal, but him stepping into a three off a screen is a far better shot, and defenses have no chance.

My anecdotal observation is that Jaylen has been doing more of those off a screen 3-pointers as well, to great effect.

 

[RorschachsMask]

My anecdotal observation is that Jaylen has been doing more of those off a screen 3-pointers as well, to great effect.

I’d agree. About 20% of his threes Jaylen take are self created, of that I’d guess 15% or so of those are stepping into threes around a screen.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I’d agree. About 20% of his threes Jaylen take are self created, of that I’d guess 15% or so of those are stepping into threes around a screen.

So... a total of 2.

 

[benhogan]

The team was getting beat backdoor and at the rim way too much (story of the season so far)

Brad did a good job employing the 2-3 zone defense last night. TL got lost/confused a few times in it. Jaylen getting a hair better in it. Liked Smart/Tatum up top.

I think it can be used as a weapon (with the right players) and not seen as a sign of defensive weakness. I'd take it as a positive from last nights regular-season loss

https://theathletic.com/2351101/2021/01/28/celtics-zone-defense-brad-stevens/?source=dailyemail

 

[the moops]

I only watched 1/2 of the game, but did Patty Mills and Dejounte Murray eat up Kemba the entire game?

 

[Cellar-Door]

I only watched 1/2 of the game, but did Patty Mills and Dejounte Murray eat up Kemba the entire game?

yes