All this talk about 2015... What about 2014?

[Reverend]

What's it all about, Farrell? I really don't understand what he's trying to accomplish with the remainder of the season. He's pushing Tazawa hard, and wouldn't consider batting Ortiz for Vazquez in the 9th in St. Louis {Instead, he batted for Nava and was intentionally walked.}. Then last night abusing Hembree and calling Workman in for emergency duty in extras, when he could have thrown in the towel innings earlier. The manager seems to be possessed by the ghost of Billy Martin when wins aren't critical at this point. It all seems very odd.

 
Well, it's pretty clear that Pedroia is trying to win. Not just the heady play but the look on his face when he scored from first and on the double steal. 
 
I'm of two minds on this issue. I want to see them focus on 2015, but I think that you only really get to develop/see what you have with the other players if you're playing in a realistic environment, i.e. playing to win. I'm not sure how much you can learn if you alter the mission, but you can definitely develop bad habits.

 

[JimD]

What's it all about, Farrell? I really don't understand what he's trying to accomplish with the remainder of the season. He's pushing Tazawa hard, and wouldn't consider batting Ortiz for Vazquez in the 9th in St. Louis {Instead, he batted for Nava and was intentionally walked.}. Then last night abusing Hembree and calling Workman in for emergency duty in extras, when he could have thrown in the towel innings earlier. The manager seems to be possessed by the ghost of Billy Martin when wins aren't critical at this point. It all seems very odd.

 
It's one thing for Farrell work in the youngsters into the lineup and see what they can do - it's another thing entirely to just give up and stop playing to win in the midst of a game.  He'd lose the clubhouse. 

 

[Harry Hooper]

 
It's one thing for Farrell work in the youngsters into the lineup and see what they can do - it's another thing entirely to just give up and stop playing to win in the midst of a game.  He'd lose the clubhouse. 

 
Mangers run a position player out on the hill when they're out of pitchers as a matter of course, but Farrell seems to treat that (as Francona did) as the ultimate shame in the game.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

 
Mangers run a position player out on the hill when they're out of pitchers as a matter of course, but Farrell seems to treat that (as Francona did) as the ultimate shame in the game.

Mike Carp pitched earlier this year. Who on the bench should have pitched that did not?

How often do managers throw a position player into the game to intentionally lose the game, though?

 

[Rasputin]

 
Mangers run a position player out on the hill when they're out of pitchers as a matter of course, but Farrell seems to treat that (as Francona did) as the ultimate shame in the game.

 
That makes it sound like it's common. It's not. 

 

[Harry Hooper]

 
That makes it sound like it's common. It's not. 

 
No, but Francona and Farrell seem to have this mini-obsession with not doing it.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

 
No, but Francona and Farrell seem to have this mini-obsession with not doing it.

 
Francona utilized six different position players on the mound during his eight years managing the Red Sox.  Dave McCarty being the most frequent, but of course he was billed as a 1B/LF/P.  He used Nick Green, Dusty Brown and Jonathan Van Every in 2009.  Then he used Van Every again in 2010 as well as Bill Hall.  In 2011, Darnell McDonald took the hill (then he did it again under the V's supervision in 2012).
 
Farrell used two position players in his two years in Toronto, Mike McCoy and Jeff Mathis (twice).  And as already mentioned, he used Mike Carp this year.
 
I don't think there's any way to draw conclusions from this evidence.  It is such an infrequent occurrence that it is impossible to determine if the usage is a reluctance to do it or simply lack of opportunities.  Generally speaking, position players are used in blow-out games to spare the pitching staff further wear and tear.  It's far more rare that a position player is inserted on the mound in a tied extra inning game.  Those are generally games the teams are still trying to win, even if the season is lost.

 

[snowmanny]

Don't forget Bobby V sending Darnell McDonald out into a tie game.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS201205060.shtml

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Don't forget Bobby V sending Darnell McDonald out into a tie game.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS201205060.shtml

 
Incidentally, while McDonald got the loss that night, another position player got the win.

 

[Rasputin]

 
No, but Francona and Farrell seem to have this mini-obsession with not doing it.

 
I don't know how you would even come to that conclusion given how infrequently it happens, and if your characterization is accurate, that's a good thing.

 

[Plympton91]

It's too bad they had recalled Brown instead of Hassan. If I recall correctly, Hassan was a pretty good pitcher at Duke and might have been a real option.

 

[Harry Hooper]

 
 
I don't think there's any way to draw conclusions from this evidence.  It is such an infrequent occurrence that it is impossible to determine if the usage is a reluctance to do it or simply lack of opportunities.  Generally speaking, position players are used in blow-out games to spare the pitching staff further wear and tear.  It's far more rare that a position player is inserted on the mound in a tied extra inning game.  Those are generally games the teams are still trying to win, even if the season is lost.

 
In terms of evidence, I can't give you a link but Tito once offered quite a discourse on this, I believe right after he'd gone through something much like what Farrell did the other night. He talked about going to extremes to not be a discredit to the game or similar language.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

 
In terms of evidence, I can't give you a link but Tito once offered quite a discourse on this, I believe right after he'd gone through something much like what Farrell did the other night. He talked about going to extremes to not be a discredit to the game or similar language.

Can you give any evidence that other managers do this as a "matter of course", and that others have no problem with doing this?

 

[geoduck no quahog]

What I'd like to see in September, when Craig is off the DL and call ups are made, is Napoli given the rest of the year off to heal his finger with Craig at 1B and Betts every day in CF (Holt or Nava in RF until Bradley comes in late). Give JBJ's head some time off at the plate and start again in 2015.

Does Craig at 1B (giving his foot time off) make any sense?

 

[JimD]

Team record by month after today's matinee win:
 
March  0-1
April  13-13
May  13-15
June  12-16
July  10-15
August 6-5 (so far)
 
I think the current Sox team should be pretty solid as retooling squads go and I'd really like to see this reflected in the W-L record down the stretch. 
 
FWIW, the 2012 team posted winning records in May (15-14) and June (15-12) before sputtering in July and managing only 16 wins in the season's final two months.  I'd be pretty ecstatic if the kids and remaining vets not only pulled out a winning record after the trades but also eclipsed that sorry group's best month in terms of wins.

 

[maxotaur]

It's too bad they had recalled Brown instead of Hassan. If I recall correctly, Hassan was a pretty good pitcher at Duke and might have been a real option.

Well he's certainly no hitter.

 

[Rasputin]

We're not getting a protected draft pick are we?
 
I am conflicted about this.

 

[foulkehampshire]

We're not getting a protected draft pick are we?
 
I am conflicted about this.

All this winning is bad for baseball.

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

We're not getting a protected draft pick are we?
 
I am conflicted about this.

 
Since none of Lester or Miller or Headley will be getting a QO, probably a moot point.  I don't see any other FA target out there worth giving up a first-round pick.

 

[Rasputin]

 
Since none of Lester or Miller or Headley will be getting a QO, probably a moot point.  I don't see any other FA target out there worth giving up a first-round pick.

 
Lester should absolutely be getting a QO. I don't really give a shit about Headley. Shields should probably get a QO too. They aren't going to accept them so why not make the offer? Worst thing that happens is you get a really good pitcher relatively cheap.

 

[snowmanny]

Lester can't.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Lester should absolutely be getting a QO. I don't really give a shit about Headley. Shields should probably get a QO too. They aren't going to accept them so why not make the offer? Worst thing that happens is you get a really good pitcher relatively cheap.

The A's can't give a QO to Lester .. He was traded in his walk year .. Same with Headley (not that he'd get one anyway)

 

[Rasputin]

The A's can't give a QO to Lester .. He was traded in his walk year .. Same with Headley (not that he'd get one anyway)

 
Right, I suck.

 

[Plympton91]

How many teams have ever finished a season on a 33-9 run? Would it be enough?

 

[bosockboy]

The 2007 Rockies is the only model really. 33-9 is about what it would take for the WC.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

The 2007 Rockies is the only model really. 33-9 is about what it would take for the WC.

 
While I don't think they have that run in them, I do think this lineup is dangerous. And by dangerous, I mean they will endanger the protected pick we were all assuming the team would have in the 2015 draft.

 

[Rasputin]

While I don't think they have that run in them

 
I am reminded of a line from The West Wing. They're talking about a third party candidate and someone mentions the poll numbers, and someone else points out that the poll was of likely voters and that when a third party candidate wins, it's going to be on the backs of unlikely voters.
 
Which is to say, nobody ever thinks any team has that kind of run in them, and  yet sometimes they happens.

 

[Apisith]

So you're saying there's a chance.

 

[Rasputin]

So you're saying there's a chance.

Until mathematical elimination, there is always a chance. It's a vanishingly small chance, but it's there.

If we were to win another ten and get back to .500, I think things might get interesting, but that's a pretty tall task.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Well, don't look now but they have won 6 of their last 8. There are 7 teams behind them in the standings and they are within 4.5 of Tampa, Miami and Cincinnati with Chicago, the Mets and San Diego in between. I'm genuinely "worried" that they will end up with an unprotected pick.
 
Of course, if that happens, that means the team has started winning again and that's a good sign for the 2015 club. So the use of "worried" above is tongue in cheek. This team isn't going to play poorly enough to be the top pick and probably won't be bad enough for a top 5. The difference between the number 6 pick and 16 isn't enormous, so the 2014 Sox going on a little bit of a run is probably the best case scenario for the long term health of the franchise.

 

[JimD]

FWIW - records of the teams in the various Sox July trades since those deals were made:
 
Giants - 8-11
A's - 7-10
Cards - 11-7
O's - 11-5
Yanks - 8-7
 
Red Sox - 8-8

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

FWIW - records of the teams in the various Sox July trades since those deals were made:
 
Giants - 8-11
A's - 7-10
Cards - 11-7
O's - 11-5
Yanks - 8-7
 
Red Sox - 8-8

 
Cubs 10-8 (not that Doubront has had much to do with it, but still)

 

[JimD]

 
Cubs 10-8 (not that Doubront has had much to do with it, but still)

 
Honestly, I'd completely forgotten about him.

 

[Plympton91]

This entire bullpen has become massive cavalcade of suck. I pity John Farrell over the next month plus as he tries to maintain some semblance of respectability.

 

[Rasputin]

This entire bullpen has become massive cavalcade of suck. I pity John Farrell over the next month plus as he tries to maintain some semblance of respectability.

 
In ten days he gets to call up Ranaudo, Barnes, Wright, Escobar, Hembree, and maybe even Owens. He's going to have a lot of talented arms to take a look at.

 

[nvalvo]

 
In ten days he gets to call up Ranaudo, Barnes, Wright, Escobar, Hembree, and maybe even Owens. He's going to have a lot of talented arms to take a look at.

 
Barnes has to be added to the 40-man by December, but Owens doesn't. I doubt we see him. 

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

This entire bullpen has become massive cavalcade of suck. I pity John Farrell over the next month plus as he tries to maintain some semblance of respectability.

 
So Layne and Wilson and Koji (in save situations) are a cavalcade of suck?
 
It's easy to make simplistic analysis of a large group of events, isn't it?

 

[JimD]

Nothing to complain about last night.  Webster continued his improvement, Koji preserved the loss and theye're 2.5 games up on the ChiSox in the race for a protected top 10 draft pick.  It's all good.

 

[Plympton91]

 
So Layne and Wilson and Koji (in save situations) are a cavalcade of suck?
 
It's easy to make simplistic analysis of a large group of events, isn't it?

Wilson is an enigma to me right now.

He was very good in Pawtucket for most of the season, outside of an atrocious stretch in June after a demotion at the end of May. He seemed to get himself back together at the end of June. From June 28th to his latest call up, he had amassed 18.1 IP, 13 H, 4 ER, 4 BB, 15 K, with a solid 2.1 inning, 1 run outing against the Yankees mixed in there.

Overall in the majors for 2014 he's now given up only 2 runs in 10.2 IP with 0 HRs, 1 BB, and 4 K's, producing a very useful sub 4.00 FIP despite only 4 K's. His career FIP is 3.31 in 38.1 innings; however, that success relies on his ability to suppress HR's despite being an extreme flyball pitcher (major league career GB/FB = .51). I would guess that is a good bit of luck, as suggested by his terrible 4.64 xFIP. Yet, he's also done a good job suppressing HR's throughout parts of 4 seasons in AAA, with only 9 in 152 innings.

Absent a significant jump in strikeouts or ground balls, I just don't see how he can ever be more than he is right now; the 13th guy on a 12 man staff who comes into games you're already losing when other members of the pitching staff are already worn down. I would think he would be a candidate for a DFA in October.

 

[Plympton91]

Another 3-2/3 (perfect?) scoreless, hitless innings for Wilson today, huh? How's he doing it?