Alex Verdugo, new Red Sox star!

SouthernBoSox

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The biggest crime, that we 100% know for a fact, is the total lack of investigation by the Dodgers and the MLB. Please read the above article as well as this SI article, I can't help but come to the same conclusion as Rovine Romine. We unfortunately don't know what happened here and we have no clue to the extent Verduga's involvement.

Was his involvement more than just being there? We don't know.

The reason we don't know is because the MLB and the Dodgers did nothing to gather more information. They should be embarrassed.
 

Rovin Romine

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If you have to stamp your opinion with the imprimatur of a lecture about “how civil society works,” and declare those with whom you disagree as a “ movement” you stop being at all convincing.

I’m perfectly fine listening to opposing viewpoints and trying to keep an open mind. In fact, I want to find a way to root for this guy, not the opposite, because I love the Sox. So, I have incentive to keep an open mind if possible. But this form of argument? No.
It was referring to the movement of one's personal needle (preceding sentence in that post), not saying that people who form opinions are in some sort of "Anti-Rovin Romine Movement."

Not that I couldn't be convinced to make a donation to the ARRM.
 

bohous

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Well, it's concerning, but really people need to slow their hot-take roll on this one, and bone up on reading skills.

1) He was with a group in public - the group included a 17 year old. There's no indication Vurdugo knew her age or invited her, or bought her drinks, and short of that, this is nothing. How many of you at age whatever insisted on carding strangers when drinking at a bar in public?

2) Group goes to hotel. Again, there's no indication that Vurdugo knew someone else was assaulting this girl. How many of you at age whatever patrolled house parties to make sure nothing untoward was happening anywhere at any time? In fact, per the article, the sexual assault stopped when others, including Vurdugo, returned.

3) Per the article there was a fight between the women. How many of you at age whatever played the hero an intervened in fights between people whom (in all likelihood) you just met earlier that day. There's no indication anyone's life was in danger, or specifics about the length and details of the assault.

So yeah, he was near some stupid (and criminal) shit that happened in 2014-2015.

If he's found to be more culpable than the article is suggesting, then yes, it's a concern.

Otherwise, I'm not really sure what the hand-wringing is about.

My impression from both articles was that the group was only the 2 players (Verdugo and Baldwin), plus the 3 girls in a Hotel room. Not exactly a house party. I'll give him benefit of the doubt that he probably didn't know (or care) that she was a minor.
Also agree that we don't know why Verdugo and the others left Baldwin alone with a girl who was by all accounts not in a clear state of mind and on the verge of passing out. We can only hope that he was in the dark about what was going on while they were away.
It doesn't sound like there was a "fight between the women". It sounds like the girl was throwing up, and beaten while defenseless. At this point one of the players (50% chance it was Verdugo himself) recorded the beating and posted it on Snapchat. Maybe the video will come out and show Verdugo pleading with the women to stop, but I kind of doubt it. At the very least he was present and complicit.

I get the lawyer's perspective, but there is enough smoke here for me to find him guilty of scumbaggery.

edit: spelling
 
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DennyDoyle'sBoil

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It was referring to the movement of one's personal needle (preceding sentence in that post), not saying that people who form opinions are in some sort of "Anti-Rovin Romine Movement."

Not that I couldn't be convinced to make a donation to the ARRM.
I see, moving the needle. Ok.

I feel fairly confident that there will be enough here for the Sox or Verdugo to have to address it in some fashion so we should get more info at some point I guess.
 

Mooch

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I liked it better when guys got smeared on the way OUT of Boston.

That said, this is some troubling stuff to be sure. Coming on the heels of the Cora firing, this is not the kind of trade that instills confidence in the Red Sox ability to turn around public perception of the organization. This kind of move should have been too toxic to consider, in my opinion.
 

Rovin Romine

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My impression from both articles was that the group was only the 2 players (Verdugo and Baldwin), plus the 3 girls in a Hotel room. Not exactly a house party. I'll give him benefit of the doubt that he probably didn't know (or care) that she was a minor.
Also agree that we don't know why Verdugo and the others left Baldwin alone with a girl who was by all accounts not in a clear state of mind and on the verge of passing out. We can only hope that he was in the dark about what was going on while they were away.
It doesn't sound like there was a "fight between the women". It sounds like the girls was throwing up, and beaten while defenseless. At this point one of the players (50% chance it was Verdugo himself) recorded the beating and posted it on Snapchat. Maybe the video will come out and show Verdugo pleading with the women to stop, but I kind of doubt it. At the very least he was present and complicit.

I get the lawyers perspective, but there is enough smoke here for me to find him guilty of scumbaggery.
That'll be the thing, won't it?

I'd like to have more information as well.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Here's the deal, they could have found another player without any of this baggage surrounding him. At the VERY LEAST Verdugo is guilty of exceptionally unsound judgement.

There are players who didn't get into this type of trouble while in the minor leagues. Guys like...well, like Mookie Betts.
 

manny

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Did you see that clip above of him talking about his back? This guy's a complete shithead. Anything he says about this case will be bad and paint him in a bad light.

I hope they Christian Peter him today. I want nothing to do with him.
The assault allegations certainly need to be investigated and heavily questioned. Not a good sign for him. With regard to the video, which a few people have mentioned so not singling you out, what exactly is the issue? That he is dressed like a "douche"? I may agree but it's pretty silly to make judgments on a 23 year old based on how they're dressed. I thought his comments were fine so not sure what the issue people have with him in that video.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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He's deliberately dressed like a character from a meme, a scumbag meme to boot, because he thinks it's funny. That's not a "God look what these kids are wearing today" post, it's a choice made to make a point.

He's a fucking immature moron.

I'm off to break things. I'm angry again.
 

Archer1979

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Here's the deal, they could have found another player without any of this baggage surrounding him. At the VERY LEAST Verdugo is guilty of exceptionally unsound judgement.

There are players who didn't get into this type of trouble while in the minor leagues. Guys like...well, like Mookie Betts.

This is where I am with this. No one can read that link and convict him of anything, but... the Sox just traded pretty much a Boy Scout away so there is going to be a natural comparison. Just the idea that he has work discipline issues was enough to push the needle, but add what this could be into the mix that might be asking for a little too much for an already upset fan base.
 

JimD

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If nothing else, there is tremendous pressure on the Red Sox to hire the right manager who can reinforce and maintain high expectations for character and conduct.
 
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He's deliberately dressed like a character from a meme, a scumbag meme to boot, because he thinks it's funny. That's not a "God look what these kids are wearing today" post, it's a choice made to make a point.

He's a fucking immature moron.

I'm off to break things. I'm angry again.
You seriously believe he deliberately woke up that morning and said, "I'm gonna dress like scumbag steve today and give this interview"? Or are you just bashing him for wearing a designer hat backwards? I sure hope he doesn't flip his bat or trot on a home run this season or you will go ballistic.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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You seriously believe he deliberately woke up that morning and said, "I'm gonna dress like scumbag steve today and give this interview"? Or are you just bashing him for wearing a designer hat backwards? I sure hope he doesn't flip his bat or trot on a home run this season or you will go ballistic.
I am bashing him for the former. I don't care about backwards hats and I love to see home runs being pimped. I do care about a player displaying a bad attitude and a gross lack of judgement.

if he thinks Scumbag Steve is funny then he's doubling down on his prior shittiness.
 

nvalvo

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This... sucks.

That said — and this is not to excuse anything — the statistics suggest that basically any NCAA athlete has been in situations broadly comparable to this.

The best information we have suggests that somewhere between 1 in 5 and 1 in 2 women attending colleges and universities have been the victim of some sort of sexual assault, where the huge range depends on the precise kinds of misconduct included in the operative definitions of "sexual assault," some of which are extremely common. The best information we have also suggests that a considerable majority of these assaults are committed by a small minority of young men, who are serial assaulters.

We don't have good numbers for young women who are not students, so we don't really know if this sexual assault epidemic is a social phenomenon that's about collegiate culture in particular or just about our society's broader and deeply dysfunctional relation to young women. I suspect the latter: the Me Too phenomenon is showing us how dangerous it is to be a young woman in almost any career or area of social life. Everyone from aspiring actresses to janitors and hotel housekeepers get assaulted at crazy high rates. It's hard to know what the baseline is, but I think we can say it needs to be lower. We have a problem.

But while these statistics imply that direct responsibility for these crimes is limited to this tiny handful of predatory men, they also imply that a huge number of college students, men and women, have been present at a party or social gathering at which or after which something like this happened. What is the nature of their responsibility for assaults that happen in those circumstances? There is a lot of work ongoing on college campuses to try to reshape the disastrous norms, values and practices that allow this social phenomenon — aptly described as a rape culture — to flourish. But this is hard work, and it's ongoing.

A lot of people blame alcohol, and I understand why. But alcohol expresses and intensifies the prevalent social norms; it doesn't create them.

I think Verdugo, like all men, has a responsibility to care for people in his own social orbit. He has to look out for women's safety; he has to be mindful that his male peers may not always harbor good intentions. It sure looks like he failed that test in this instance. But you could say that about a lot of people.
 

bohous

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He's deliberately dressed like a character from a meme, a scumbag meme to boot, because he thinks it's funny. That's not a "God look what these kids are wearing today" post, it's a choice made to make a point.

He's a fucking immature moron.

I'm off to break things. I'm angry again.
Uh, I don't think he was deliberately trying to look like Scumbag Steve. I think that's just how he likes to dress. Douchey for sure but I have a feeling most of us are old men yelling at clouds when it comes to kids and fashion.
 

Devizier

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So yeah, he was near some stupid (and criminal) shit that happened in 2014-2015.
At the very least, the front office is going to have to come clean about this. They obviously knew about this incident and pulled the trigger anyways. It would be nice if Verdugo showed contrition about his involvement as well. It wouldn’t make the victim whole but it would at least show some semblance of decency.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

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He recently gave an update on his back, while dressed as the Meme Scumbag Steve. Not sure if there is much hope for this kid.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8khLmuRRTV0


Scumbag Steve

I hope attendance and ratings are brutal. I wont be giving them a dime.
He's deliberately dressed like a character from a meme, a scumbag meme to boot, because he thinks it's funny. That's not a "God look what these kids are wearing today" post, it's a choice made to make a point.

He's a fucking immature moron.

I'm off to break things. I'm angry again.
Just to clear this part up, he's not dressed as Scumbag Steve. Scumbag Steve was wearing a Detroit Tigers hat and a fur lined jacket. Verdugo was wearing a Gucci hat, sunglasses and a t-shirt. Are the hats similar? I guess. Is he dressed as Scumbag Steve? Hardly.




 
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SouthernBoSox

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Scumbag Steve was an OG internet meme from like 2005. I doubt Alex Verdugo has absolutely any idea what/who "Scumbag Steve" is.
 

DeweyWins

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I'm leaning towards being in a bad place, making bad decisions, with alcohol involved. That he hasn't been openly apologetic and outward in what he's learned from the incident says "scumbag" to me. It also says "shut up to avoid incriminating yourself further". Hopefully, I'm wrong.

His first interview in Boston ought to show how well he handles the microscopic-level scrutiny that comes with the territory. I kind of expect he's going to try to "Bull Durham" his way out of any hard questions. Hopefully, I'll be wrong.

Provided he's learned any lessons from that past failure, I look forward to some cross between Dirt Dog and JD Drew. He was a Sox fan as a kid, and for some reason, that counts for something to me. I hope I'm not wrong.

As the primary player return for a trade involving a generational talent like Mookie, I'm already certain this was wrong.

At any rate, I'd say to Dugie: "Welcome to Boston, kid. We'll eat you alive and spit you out, make you run away crying, or make you one of us. What we won't do is be tepid, laid back, and dispassionate about this team like you may have been accustomed."
 

Toe Nash

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And, as an aside, I'm not saying there's definitively nothing here. But there really seems to be nothing here, and no further flags of any color that I'm aware of. Poke around if you want; if this guy turns out of have a history of run-ins and close-calls, I'll change my opinion. Right now though, he's like anyone else who didn't live their 20s in a monastery.
The red flags are that he's also been criticized for poor work ethic on the field, showing up late for practice. Not the same thing as being complicit in an assault, but it's not like there's no more smoke here. He will have to show that he has matured or he'll get absolutely killed the first time he misplays a line drive down the first base line into a triple.
 

Teachdad46

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My god I'm trying to figure out how (assumed) due diligence led us to this.
How did we go from being a world champ, fun-loving, likable bunch of ballplayers led by a manager-savant to this in 15 months?
Will S. could not have written such a tragedy.
 

The Filthy One

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The article is one thing, but I just watched that video and...what are people upset about? He answered a bunch of questions about an injury in a super banal way. I think he even literally said "I'm just trying to take it one day at a time." His beard is offensive, but I rooted for Buchholz, so I can look past that. I found nothing he said or the way he said it objectionable at all.
 

moondog80

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The article is one thing, but I just watched that video and...what are people upset about? He answered a bunch of questions about an injury in a super banal way. I think he even literally said "I'm just trying to take it one day at a time." His beard is offensive, but I rooted for Buchholz, so I can look past that. I found nothing he said or the way he said it objectionable at all.
He was wearing a funny hat. Backwards. And it had similarities to one worn by some guy on youtube.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Scumbag Steve was an OG internet meme from like 2005. I doubt Alex Verdugo has absolutely any idea what/who "Scumbag Steve" is.
Scumbag Steve was super popular in the early 2010s. He's only a few years younger than I am so I'm pretty confident he knows who Scumbag Steve is. That said, who cares? If he was wearing a blue collared shirt with the collar popped and a joint hanging out of his mouth would people be glad he dressed like Good Guy Greg instead?
 

Rovin Romine

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The red flags are that he's also been criticized for poor work ethic on the field, showing up late for practice. Not the same thing as being complicit in an assault, but it's not like there's no more smoke here. He will have to show that he has matured or he'll get absolutely killed the first time he misplays a line drive down the first base line into a triple.
Please. He's going to get killed because everyone seems to act like he's Mookie's carefully selected replacement for all things Mookie.

In reality, he's the replacement for that AAA ML-ready OF, whose name escapes me at the moment.
 

curly2

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Group goes to hotel. Again, there's no indication that Vurdugo knew someone else was assaulting this girl. How many of you at age whatever patrolled house parties to make sure nothing untoward was happening anywhere at any time? In fact, per the article, the sexual assault stopped when others, including Vurdugo, returned.

Per the article there was a fight between the women. How many of you at age whatever played the hero an intervened in fights between people whom (in all likelihood) you just met earlier that day. There's no indication anyone's life was in danger, or specifics about the length and details of the assault.
House parties are one thing -- a large number of rooms, a ton of people there. This was a single room with five people.

I may have lived a sheltered life, but I haven't seen a ton of fights. The one time I had a chance to break up a fight, I did. I was in my 40s but not in my 20s. My 20-year-old self may have been self-centered and immature, as most people are at 20, but I believe if I saw two women pummeling a helpless 17-year-old, I would step in.
 
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Toe Nash

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Please. He's going to get killed because everyone seems to act like he's Mookie's carefully selected replacement for all things Mookie.

In reality, he's the replacement for that AAA ML-ready OF, whose name escapes me at the moment.
Weird how that happens when you trade Mookie for him.

He'll get killed because Boston is a high pressure place to play and there will be even more of a spotlight on him than there would be for another rookie. Not complicated.
 

BigSoxFan

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What does Verdugo’s upside look like? If he reaches the top end of his projection, what do we have here?
 

bohous

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The 'Verdugo cosplayed as Scumbag Steve' takes are really bad.
To be fair, I posted the video in the other thread a couple of days ago and made the Scumbag Steve cosplay joke as an aside. I don't actually think he was trying to look like Scumbag Steve and don't think it matters. The point of the video was the concern about his back and that he didn't seem to have any good answers regarding progress.
 

DeadlySplitter

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What does Verdugo’s upside look like? If he reaches the top end of his projection, what do we have here?
lower-end All-Star, 4-5 WAR per year at peak

he produced at a 3 WAR / 162 gm rate last year before the back.

it feels like a huge maybe with the crushing media pressure that will come and he'll have to answer for everything the media and fans have [re]dug up on him, but the talent is there
 

OurF'ingCity

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lower-end All-Star, 4-5 WAR per year at peak

he produced at a 3 WAR / 162 gm rate last year before the back.

it feels like a huge maybe with the crushing media pressure that will come and he'll have to answer for everything the media and fans have [re]dug up on him, but the talent is there
Not just that but given past concerns about effort, he is going to get a ton of criticism if he takes longer than expected to come back from injury, etc., even if it's entirely undeserved. I simultaneously already despise the guy and weirdly preemptively feel bad for him for all the shit he is going to get from the WEEI crowd about not being a "dirt dog"/"bad character" type.
 

bohous

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I'm not trying to be a jerk. The story I'm going by, which is the one circulating on the internet since the trade came down, says it was just Verdugo, Baldwin, the two women and the girl in the room.
Here is another story about the incident from WaPo that also suggests that it was confined to the room with the 2 players and 3 girls.
 
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