Alex Cora fired

Sprowl

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Why not make Jason Varitek the Manager?

2. Great Reputation
3. Would have the respect of the team
4. Red Sox Legend
I have my doubts about those characterizations. Don't forget 2011, when Varitek's (and Tito's) taste for philandering provided the counterpoint to the chicken-and-beer scandals. This is probably a very good time to bring in somebody from outside,

but not Bobby the Fifth or General Buck.

Somehow I doubt Showalter would want it. IIMO he wouldn't be caught dead in a Red Sox uniform. Nor would most of the fan base want him.
Showalter's been evil too long to stop now.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI_zG2eWGE4


Cora was brought here because of his familiarity with the dark arts as practiced in Houston. Not despite.
Sadly, it's true. The Red Sox wanted a manager with something up his sleeve. Unfortunately, there were lots of witnesses.
 

MtPleasant Paul

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This ownership group likes to reserve for itself decisions on hiring managers. They fired Ferguson, hired Grady, fired Grady, fired Terry, hired Valentine. If Cherington despite his years in the organization had Bobby Valentine forced on him, how is Potok - essentially a stranger whom they have known for a few weeks - going to get his man through? Given the imminence of the season, it doesn't look like a systematic search but the elevation of Roenicke, the Grady Little of 2020. And why wasn't Potok with the owners today? Hard to believe that Theo wouldn't have been up there.

Maybe we'll know more tomorrow at 1:00 PM.
 

Marciano490

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I wonder if Cora is in a lose-lose position where the only way to avoid a lifetime ban is to be honest about everything and everyone, but doing so would make him a pariah and unlikely to ever get a job in baseball again.

On the other hand, there doesn’t seem to be much public blowback against anyone who has come forward so far.
 

geoduck no quahog

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The choice bit of info out of the report was a clear decision to not go after players. This means the policy of player Omertà might be broken and more stories are sure to come out. I'm confident this is the tip of the iceberg and numerous teams are soon to be on the watch list.
 

jon abbey

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This ownership group likes to reserve for itself decisions on hiring managers. They fired Ferguson, hired Grady, fired Grady, fired Terry, hired Valentine. If Cherington despite his years in the organization had Bobby Valentine forced on him, how is Potok - essentially a stranger whom they have known for a few weeks - going to get his man through? Given the imminence of the season, it doesn't look like a systematic search but the elevation of Roenicke, the Grady Little of 2020. And why wasn't Potok with the owners today? Hard to believe that Theo wouldn't have been up there.

Maybe we'll know more tomorrow at 1:00 PM.
Are you genuinely confusing the writer Chaim Potok with the GM Chaim Bloom?
 

Marciano490

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The choice bit of info out of the report was a clear decision to not go after players. This means the policy of player Omertà might be broken and more stories are sure to come out. I'm confident this is the tip of the iceberg and numerous teams are soon to be on the watch list.
Cora might also have information on front offices, managers or owners.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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This ownership group likes to reserve for itself decisions on hiring managers. They fired Ferguson, hired Grady, fired Grady, fired Terry, hired Valentine. If Cherington despite his years in the organization had Bobby Valentine forced on him, how is Potok - essentially a stranger whom they have known for a few weeks - going to get his man through? Given the imminence of the season, it doesn't look like a systematic search but the elevation of Roenicke, the Grady Little of 2020. And why wasn't Potok with the owners today? Hard to believe that Theo wouldn't have been up there.

Maybe we'll know more tomorrow at 1:00 PM.
Are you genuinely confusing the writer Chaim Potok with the GM Chaim Bloom?
I just can’t believe I forgot the Turd Ferguson era at Fenway.

No one comes out of this looking good. None of Houston’s leadership. None of the Red Sox. Not James “I knew it first” Loney. Not the other teams that will be named.

Sox need a true outsider.

i am tightening up my resume
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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And why wasn't Potok with the owners today?
“A man is born into this world with only a tiny spark of goodness in him. The spark is God, it is the soul; the rest is ugliness and evil, a shell. The spark must be guarded like a treasure, it must be nurtured, it must be fanned into flame. It must learn to seek out other sparks, it must dominate the shell.”

He was. He was.
 

Airdrie Redsox

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I'm so disappointed at these things, I'm sure AC would have been a great manager without the need to cheat so systematically, that makes this so hard to swallow. But I think the role of the manager and these dodges are over-rated. GMs and organisations essentially win titles (and create lean years if they get the balance wrong).

I don't personally want to forget what the players did achieve in 2018, I genuinely don't think there was much of an impact from the spying. Most key players hitting performance during the regular and post-season doesn't seem to be inflated unnaturally. Mookie had a career year almost exactly where you'd expect, JD repeated his 2017 season, Benintendi and Bogaerts had slightly better seasons than 2017, but Devers, Mitch, Bradley Jnr and Vazquez had relatively poor years at the plate by their previous standards.

The 108 win and championship were a result of outstanding pitching and solid hitting from a team specifically put together at great, and future inhibiting, expense. 176 innings of 3.58 ERA from Price, 191 innings at 4.28 ERA from Porcello, 129 innings of 3.82 ERA from Edro, and especially 158 innings at 2.11 ERA from Chris Sale, backed up by solid pitching, a really good bullpen, and spectacularly gutsy post-season bullpen cameo appearances from the likes of Sale, Price and Eovaldi are the reason we won it all.
 

BornToRun

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This sucks but I guess it isn’t exactly unexpected. Thanks for 2018, Alex. I’ll always remember you as the skipper that pushed all the right buttons during that magical run.
 

Rovin Romine

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The problem wasn't the crime. It was getting busted for it.
This is sort of a joke, and sort of isn't. IME, people who are actually busted for wrongdoing usually fall back on the "but everybody else does it" argument at some point. And the response is, "No shit? Well, we'd be happy to bust them also. What evidence do you have?"

To the extent that MLB's investigation of the Sox is unfolding, Cora's in a bind. Either he does a mea culpa and rats everyone out, or he hopes the baseball club will be forgiving if/when the Commissioner reinstates him.
 

trs

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This sucks but I guess it isn’t exactly unexpected. Thanks for 2018, Alex. I’ll always remember you as the skipper that pushed all the right buttons during that magical run.
The "change feed" button apparently.

In all seriousness I am also very disappointed with these revelations, and while there is some potential solace in the idea that our cheaters beat the other people's cheaters, it's still a shame that this story will be appended to any about that wonderful 2018 season.

I wonder what the next steps are in terms of baseball as a whole. If what Cora and others did is more widespread than who is getting punished right now, then is there a full-on investigation of the entire league? I doubt it, and while I'm sure the crackdown here will have a brief effect of curtailing tech-savvy cheating, I can only assume that it will return in more clever and better-hidden ways. I suppose I assume it will be similar to the PED issue, when "crackdowns" probably did lead to less usage, but are we all comfortable in agreeing that PEDs are far less prevalent today than they were before Mitchell?

So do we go with the Luddite approach and ban technology from stadiums and parks, or do we accept its presence and see how the game changes?
 

Montana Fan

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I couldn't be sadder to see this as Cora seems to be a great guy and a good manager. It will take a few years but he'll bounce back.

PS - with the way we do redemption nowadays, I'd like to predict for the Grandsons of Sam Horn, Cora will manage the Red Sox again. He's only 44 and my feel is that he will sincerely repent and rehab his image and at some point, return to Boston.
 

JimD

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Just have to echo the sadness that others have posted about feeling. I have admired (and still admire) Alex Cora's qualities as a leader and a baseball manager and just feel an overwhelming sense of disappointment in his actions - he did not need to cross the lines that he chose to cross. And like Spygate, this is so stupid - that 2018 team was good enough to win it all, and did not need any perceived ill-gotten advantages, and now we will have to hear crap about that season for the rest of our lives. This just really sucks.
 

Van Everyman

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Said this before but I really want to hear from Cora on all this – not in a press conference where he gets peppered with a thousand gotcha questions but maybe in a 1-on-1 radio interview. He’s nothing if not a thoughtful guy and I think he’d have a lot to offer about how this came about, what kind of advantage he thought it provided and how, in his mind, it connects to the history of sign stealing. my guess is that something like that would go a long way toward not simply rehabilitating his image but also helping the public understand what actually transpired.

I can’t believe I’m saying this but I wish Gerry Callahan were still around to do it.
 

Archer1979

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Just have to echo the sadness that others have posted about feeling. I have admired (and still admire) Alex Cora's qualities as a leader and a baseball manager and just feel an overwhelming sense of disappointment in his actions - he did not need to cross the lines that he chose to cross. And like Spygate, this is so stupid - that 2018 team was good enough to win it all, and did not need any perceived ill-gotten advantages, and now we will have to hear crap about that season for the rest of our lives. This just really sucks.
I'm not worried about the legacy of 2018 just yet. Let's see what the investigation comes out with. The Sox are going to get hit hard for being repeat offenders, but this had nowhere near the effectiveness or the systemic level that Houston's was. I know... Houston's GM wasn't directly implicated, but the emails that flowed throughout the organization have somewhat disappeared from the landscape.
 

leftfieldlegacy

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Came here to post basically this. What happens if it turns out like 20 teams did the same thing in 2018? Are all of their managers going to be fired? (Not saying Cora shouldn't have been fired, by the way - it's just a really weird situation right now.) I guess Cora is a bit unique in that he was the alleged mastermind of the 2017 Astros thing which is above and beyond just using the replay room.

Also will be interesting to see what happens to Dombrowski - applying the Luhnow precedent Dombrowski is in line for a significant suspension even if he didn't personally know anything. Not sure what that means given that Dombrowksi isn't associated with a team - does he get to be "suspended" for 2019 and then come back even if he had no plans to work for a team in 2019 anyway? Or would his "suspension" start whenever he was hired by a team, if that ever happens?
I assume you meant 2020 not 2019. The suspension for DD would have to be for the 2020 season. Otherwise, it essentially becomes a lifetime ban because no team is going to hire someone who has to sit out the first year of his contract. This scenario also now applies to Cora and the Houston manager/GM who are no longer affiliated with any team.
 

HomeBrew1901

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This is sort of a joke, and sort of isn't. IME, people who are actually busted for wrongdoing usually fall back on the "but everybody else does it" argument at some point. And the response is, "No shit? Well, we'd be happy to bust them also. What evidence do you have?"

To the extent that MLB's investigation of the Sox is unfolding, Cora's in a bind. Either he does a mea culpa and rats everyone out, or he hopes the baseball club will be forgiving if/when the Commissioner reinstates him.
But officer everyone else is speeding too.

Yep, but I just caught you doing 85 in a 55 and and everyone else is going 70. Plus you drive a nice car and can probably afford the ticket.

From all accounts, all teams were warned to cut the shit, and while maybe the Red Sox weren't the worst offenders, it's not hard to follow the trail from the Astros to the Red Sox both coming off World Series Victories with Cora as the primary link. It sucks but they knew the rules, the probably just didn't expect the consequences to be so stiff.
 

InstaFace

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Though perhaps MLB should just join the 21st century, and enable secure electronic communication between pitcher and catcher?

Nah-- I like that one of the perks of getting to 2nd base is having a chance to steal signals the Old Fashioned Way!
This is being discussed in 5 threads at the moment, of course, but do you also like that as a result of the bolded, catchers have to come out and have a mound discussion, sometimes more than one per at-bat, whenever a runner is on 2nd? And obviously there are no limitations on that.

The technological solution would make a meaningful difference in speeding up the game. Not as much as enforcing the pitch clock and "batters shall not step out of the box except under extenuating circumstances" would. But a pretty substantial one, I think. Nobody enjoys sitting around while the pitcher and catcher get it right for the 10th time that night.
 

InstaFace

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there are reports out there that the Sox wanted to wait until the report but Cora effectively resigned.
I imagine CHB would be one of them, given that he was 180 degrees from correct when he published his story this time yesterday about the Sox planning to ride it out.

But - "there are reports out there"? C'mon man. Link them or something, or at least name a publication if you can't easily get a link. This is like "people are saying". Without someone standing behind it, that's effectively rumor and innuendo. We got enough of that already.
 

InsideTheParker

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didn't one of the Red Sox players who came forward to Rosenthal say we had the monitors in our pockets?

EDIT: Excerpt from Athletic:



I'm sure a good chunk of the investigation would be seeing if this occurred in 2018 postseason.
I wonder if others are as curious as I am about who these informants are. I'm sure we shouldn't know, but everything seems to leak nowadays. . . .
 

JimD

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I imagine CHB would be one of them, given that he was 180 degrees from correct when he published his story this time yesterday about the Sox planning to ride it out.
Given that Shaughnessy works for John Henry, his article yesterday can also be read as a trial balloon by ownership to see what reaction would be to possibly sticking with Cora.
 

InstaFace

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I guess ownership really hated its own star players for a period of 20 years, then.

Or perhaps Occam's Razor says that CHB doesn't care what anyone else thinks, and neither does his editor as long as he gets clicks, and there are enough layers of management between them that John Henry would never concern himself with CHB.
 

JimD

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I wonder if others are as curious as I am about who these informants are. I'm sure we shouldn't know, but everything seems to leak nowadays. . . .
Listened to part of Rob Bradford's podcast yesterday and Steven Wright's name came up - I have no idea if WEEI has heard something or if they were just spitballing, but Wright would certainly fit the profile - a pitcher, possibly unhappy with the organization after being realized, and an insignificant contributor to the 2018 championship drive who was ultimately removed form the postseason roster.
 
Jul 5, 2018
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I wonder if Cora is in a lose-lose position where the only way to avoid a lifetime ban is to be honest about everything and everyone, but doing so would make him a pariah and unlikely to ever get a job in baseball again.

On the other hand, there doesn’t seem to be much public blowback against anyone who has come forward so far.
He lost when he cheated and got caught. The MLB report is damning and it doesn't matter what he says, or doesn't say, at this point.
 

StuckOnYouk

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Steven Wright is definitely a possibility. What about Ian Kinsler being one of the snitches.? Was only on the team for a few months, just retired. Maybe doesn't feel like he has a lot of ties to the team.
 

joe dokes

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I wonder if Cora is in a lose-lose position where the only way to avoid a lifetime ban is to be honest about everything and everyone, but doing so would make him a pariah and unlikely to ever get a job in baseball again.

On the other hand, there doesn’t seem to be much public blowback against anyone who has come forward so far.
At 44, I dont think he's at risk of baseball-lifetime pariahdom. Whether it was at the beginning of the investigation or elsewhere on the timeline, I suspect he saw the handwriting on the wall and came clean as to his own involvement. If it turns out he didn't, then he's in deeper shit than that, of course. Whether "coming clean" means naming names is still an open question.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Steven Wright is definitely a possibility. What about Ian Kinsler being one of the snitches.? Was only on the team for a few months, just retired. Maybe doesn't feel like he has a lot of ties to the team.
This kind of posting is as close to Remy Report quality as I have seen in these threads.

This is not Hot Take radio
 

Cesar Crespo

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Listened to part of Rob Bradford's podcast yesterday and Steven Wright's name came up - I have no idea if WEEI has heard something or if they were just spitballing, but Wright would certainly fit the profile - a pitcher, possibly unhappy with the organization after being realized, and an insignificant contributor to the 2018 championship drive who was ultimately removed form the postseason roster.
You'd think pitchers in general wouldn't be very happy about any of this. It's pretty one sided.
 

brandonchristensen

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Maybe this is why his 2018 pinch hitter performance always seemed to be the right call.

They knew what was coming!
 

FinanceAdvice

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I truly really liked Cora as Manager. close second maybe even tied with Tito. Hate to see him go and I suppose it's needed. Replacement? I'd seriously consider Varitek or Lowell. But probably won't happen.
 

geoduck no quahog

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Just have to echo the sadness that others have posted about feeling. I have admired (and still admire) Alex Cora's qualities as a leader and a baseball manager and just feel an overwhelming sense of disappointment in his actions - he did not need to cross the lines that he chose to cross. And like Spygate, this is so stupid - that 2018 team was good enough to win it all, and did not need any perceived ill-gotten advantages, and now we will have to hear crap about that season for the rest of our lives. This just really sucks.
And again...despite it being cheating which requires a hammer - there's a world of difference between giving a guy on 2nd base an advantage (assuming he wants it) in signalling the hitter about a pitch call (assuming he wants it) when the situation presents itself, versus signaling the hitter in real time exactly what the pitch call is in every situation (at home)...not even requiring the hitter to take his eyes off the mound. In other words, the (some) Red Sox hitters cheated but not to the game-changing extent that (some) Astros players did. What's stupid is that the intelligence the Red Sox gained about sign-changing could just as easily be gleaned with the alternative and (semi) legal , means every other club has available...and certainly utilized.

...and shame on any pitcher/catcher combo that doesn't change it up repeatedly with a man on 2nd. They're idiots to assume the other team can't decipher a pattern.
 

DeweyWins

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AC has the 5th best winning percentage (0.593 regular season) in RS managerial history behind Jake Stahl, Joe McCarthy, Steve O'Neill, and Bill Carrigan. If he never returns to managing in the future, we'll always have 2018, but there's definitely a "what if" sentiment lingering with his departure.

Steven Wright is definitely a possibility. What about Ian Kinsler being one of the snitches.? Was only on the team for a few months, just retired. Maybe doesn't feel like he has a lot of ties to the team.
This kind of posting is as close to Remy Report quality as I have seen in these threads.

This is not Hot Take radio
Remy Report, indeed! Kinsler won his first/only WS ring with the Sox. Why tarnish that?

19 days until Truck Day. I don't see Bloom punting the long-term managerial decision to next offseason, but neither will he be overcommitting to a manager hire this season. My thoughts are we will see a one-season audition (with a team option for 1 or 2 more years) for a McMillon or maybe Varitek, or a one season (mutual option for 1 or 2 more years) for a free agent manager.
 
Jul 5, 2018
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Said this before but I really want to hear from Cora on all this – not in a press conference where he gets peppered with a thousand gotcha questions but maybe in a 1-on-1 radio interview. He’s nothing if not a thoughtful guy and I think he’d have a lot to offer about how this came about, what kind of advantage he thought it provided and how, in his mind, it connects to the history of sign stealing. my guess is that something like that would go a long way toward not simply rehabilitating his image but also helping the public understand what actually transpired.

I can’t believe I’m saying this but I wish Gerry Callahan were still around to do it.
When Lance Armstrong met with Oprah Winfrey and it made me dislike him even more. He admitted what he did and said he regretted being such an arrogant jerk, but he was just confessing to the obvious.

What Cora did caused incredible damage to the Astros and maybe cost the Dodgers a WS win. He will judged by what he did and nothing else. Judgement of Cora will range from believing that most teams were cheating and he was the one that was caught to him being the worst villain since the Black Sox.
 

Plympton91

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When Lance Armstrong met with Oprah Winfrey and it made me dislike him even more. He admitted what he did and said he regretted being such an arrogant jerk, but he was just confessing to the obvious.

What Cora did caused incredible damage to the Astros and maybe cost the Dodgers a WS win. He will judged by what he did and nothing else. Judgement of Cora will range from believing that most teams were cheating and he was the one that was caught to him being the worst villain since the Black Sox.
I can never equate “cheating to win” with “losing intentionally” and I’m usually one of the biggest moralizers around.

The Black Sox are their own category.
 

terrynever

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Another thought on the Apple Watch counter claim: if the allegations that Yankees were using the replay room is true then how thorough was Manfred's investigation? Seems like the Sox suspicions that their signs were being stolen would have been correct but what they supposed was the methodology was incorrect.
If Beltran is fired by the Mets, he may have more to say about his time with the Yankees, both as a player and an assistant to Cashman in 2019. Chances are there is nothing to report but if he is fired, Beltran has no reason to remain quiet.

I like Varitek as a one-year manager in transition for Boston. Maybe more if he succeeds in easing any negative feelings around the Red Sox in 2020.
 

DeadlySplitter

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I imagine CHB would be one of them, given that he was 180 degrees from correct when he published his story this time yesterday about the Sox planning to ride it out.

But - "there are reports out there"? C'mon man. Link them or something, or at least name a publication if you can't easily get a link. This is like "people are saying". Without someone standing behind it, that's effectively rumor and innuendo. We got enough of that already.
sure. unverified of course

View: https://twitter.com/BostonStrong_34/status/1217244274393321472
 
Jul 5, 2018
430
I can never equate “cheating to win” with “losing intentionally” and I’m usually one of the biggest moralizers around.

The Black Sox are their own category.
I didn't say what he did is comparable to the Black Sox, but that what he did, assuming that it wouldn't have happened without him, was possibly the most damage done to a team by a player/coach since 1919. Of course, players being paid to throw games is far worse than what Cora did.
 

jon abbey

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who's that tweeter? why should I believe he has sources that national and local beat writers don't appear to have?
I have no idea whether to believe him or not, but it's worth noting that the difference between tweets like this and reports from writers we know isn't generally sources, it's feeling confident enough in that info to attach your name to it. Writers have more to lose professionally if they're wrong so they generally wait until they're sure, I am finding more and more often it's the random tweets that have actual news first (and of course they are wrong more often too).
 

Harry Hooper

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who's that tweeter? why should I believe he has sources that national and local beat writers don't appear to have?
It appears to make sense in this case. There were folks like CHB saying Cora wasn't going anywhere, but then it was quickly over. The joint statement put out by the Sox and Cora also suggests Cora was driving the timeline of events (= resignation).
 

mauf

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To me, saying Cora’s departure was a mutual decision means he negotiated something for himself, which the Sox were willing to pay to get ahead of the story and hire a new manager immediately rather than waiting until they had grounds to fire Cora for cause. Under the circumstances, Cora probably didn’t get much, but if he had simply resigned, I think he’d want to take credit for that honorable act rather than casting it as a mutual decision with ownership.
 

RedOctober3829

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Werner said they met with Alex yesterday. Went into the meeting trying to answer the question of what is in the best interest of the Red Sox. Cora admitted his mistake and they mutually agreed to part ways. It was a sad day for the Red Sox. It doesn't mitigate the talent he has and we are still fond of Alex.

Kennedy: Tough day, but an easy mutual decision for us and Alex. It was a truly mutual decision. Alex came to the conclusion that he couldn't lead the team going forward and so did we. We discussed the best path forward for the Red Sox.
 

RedOctober3829

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Werner: What Alex did was wrong and he did agree to that. Moving forward would have been very difficult given what happened in Houston.

Bloom: The short answer is we don't know yet(regarding manager or coaching staff). We handed the Alex decision and are moving onto the managerial opening. We have a lot of regard for the current staff. Was a tough thing for them. There's no question its a difficult time to do a managerial search. It's impossible for time not to be a factor but we will make sure to do this justice.