Alex Cora fired

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,463
John and Tom leaving. Sam and Chaim staying.(to answer more questions) Looks like the remainder is not televised.
 

JimD

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2001
8,681
It's pretty obvious that Shaughnessy was right yesterday - the overwhelming vibe is that they love Cora and likely would have stuck by him if they possibly could have done so.

Also agree that they think what was done in 2018 was no big deal. Hope that doesn't come back to bite them in the ass.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
Also agree that they think what was done in 2018 was no big deal.
The optimistic way of looking at that would be that they have more insight from the league office into likely punishment and are confident it won't be anywhere near what the Astros got. I suspect their tone would have been quite different if they knew they were looking at a maximum fine and loss of multiple high draft picks.

The pessimistic way of looking at it, as you indicate, is that they are cavalierly assuming they'll get off light but MLB has an entirely different view of things.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243
It's pretty obvious that Shaughnessy was right yesterday - the overwhelming vibe is that they love Cora and likely would have stuck by him if they possibly could have done so.

Also agree that they think what was done in 2018 was no big deal. Hope that doesn't come back to bite them in the ass.
Did they suggest the outcome would have been the same if Cora had not come to them first?
 

drbretto

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 10, 2009
12,075
Concord, NH
I am somewhat comforted by the plausibility that Cora is still a stand up guy under the surface. But, it only means he really should have known better.

It's hard to speculate on his future. I can see his name being mud forever, and I've seen longer-shot redemption tales. But, if he does ever make it back with the MLB, hi gotta think he's certainly done with the Sox.

He coulda been remembered so fondly here.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,020
Oregon
I 100% support this. And totally not because Matt and I went to college together and were in a fair number of classes with each other.
Good god, man ... get him into this thread
 

24redsox

New Member
Nov 18, 2013
20
I 100% support this. And totally not because Matt and I went to college together and were in a fair number of classes with each other. His major was my minor so there was some overlap.
Question is would Matt want this and how close to Bloom he is?
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
26,993
Newton
I 100% support this. And totally not because Matt and I went to college together and were in a fair number of classes with each other. His major was my minor so there was some overlap.
I saw a tweet today, not sure where, that suggested he wouldn't be available to interview.
 

steveluck7

Member
SoSH Member
May 10, 2007
3,994
Burrillville, RI
I saw a tweet today, not sure where, that suggested he wouldn't be available to interview.
If it was the Rosenthal tweet, that was speculation passed off as knowledge. He basically said that in the past, Tampa F.O. folks who have left have not poached so it’s unlikely now.
It wasn’t sourced or anything.
Doesn’t make him wrong but I don’t think anything is different now than before he tweeted.
 

JimD

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2001
8,681
If it was the Rosenthal tweet, that was speculation passed off as knowledge. He basically said that in the past, Tampa F.O. folks who have left have not poached so it’s unlikely now.
It wasn’t sourced or anything.
Doesn’t make him wrong but I don’t think anything is different now than before he tweeted.
Exactly - until we see a definitive quote from him or the Rays saying he is off limits/not interested, there is still a possibility. Two months ago, Cash and the Rays must have had a plan to replace him had Quatraro been hired by the Giants or Pirates - would it be that difficult to do so now? Ask for a lottery-ticket prospect from the Sox and do it with the understanding that he can't take anyone else from the Rays to join his coaching staff.
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Moderator
SoSH Member
This thing should have wrapped up after 15 minutes.
As the name suggests, a press conference is for the press; those of us watching on TV weren’t the primary audience. And there is an art to this — once you give the entire press corps a full opportunity to ask all their questions, and they pepper you with questions until they grow tired of it, you can rebuff any future questions with a simple “we said everything we have to say and are moving on.” Of course there will be rumors and leaks that feed the beast, but the Sox have done everything they can to quash the story until MLB’s report drops.
 

cornwalls@6

Less observant than others
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
6,249
from the wilds of western ma
As the name suggests, a press conference is for the press; those of us watching on TV weren’t the primary audience. And there is an art to this — once you give the entire press corps a full opportunity to ask all their questions, and they pepper you with questions until they grow tired of it, you can rebuff any future questions with a simple “we said everything we have to say and are moving on.” Of course there will be rumors and leaks that feed the beast, but the Sox have done everything they can to quash the story until MLB’s report drops.
Oh I agree. Was really referring to( which I should have been more specific about) the comical attempts of the assembled media to ask the same question 20 different ways, and getting the same “we won’t comment on MLB’s investigation” answer over and over. I actually think the FO did fine today, and accomplished what they set out to. Addressing Cora’s departure, and maybe, subtly, drawing a distinction between what happened in 2018, and what the Astros were hammered for.
 
Last edited:

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
He lost when he cheated and got caught. The MLB report is damning and it doesn't matter what he says, or doesn't say, at this point.
I'd wait until the findings in the 2018 investigation are over. Remember, Cora's yet to be suspended. I don't think he get's more than Hinch for the Houston incident, what comes out of Boston determines his fate. If the total is anything less than a 2 years I think he's back at some point. He may have to start at a lower level and work his way back up, but he'll get a job. If it's only a year, he'll be back within a year or so after the suspension depending on who needs a manager and if the fit is right. Perhaps a post Don Mattingly Miami is a good landing spot.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
21,484
Rogers Park
I am somewhat comforted by the plausibility that Cora is still a stand up guy under the surface. But, it only means he really should have known better.

It's hard to speculate on his future. I can see his name being mud forever, and I've seen longer-shot redemption tales. But, if he does ever make it back with the MLB, hi gotta think he's certainly done with the Sox.

He coulda been remembered so fondly here.
I'd wait until the findings in the 2018 investigation are over. Remember, Cora's yet to be suspended. I don't think he get's more than Hinch for the Houston incident, what comes out of Boston determines his fate. If the total is anything less than a 2 years I think he's back at some point. He may have to start at a lower level and work his way back up, but he'll get a job. If it's only a year, he'll be back within a year or so after the suspension depending on who needs a manager and if the fit is right. Perhaps a post Don Mattingly Miami is a good landing spot.
I also think that as more information emerges about Houston, the narrative that Cora was heavily involved in the scheme but Hinch and Luhnow were not will come to seem threadbare. I also think the Commissioner's heavy penalties suggest he doesn't believe that narrative, whatever the report says. You don't suspend Luhnow for a year for missing a few crucial emails.

I don't believe that bench coaches in most organizations have the authority to get live center field camera footage, which is allowed as I understand it only for purposes of player development, routed to a monitor in the tunnel between the clubhouse and the dugout. The other teams have been accused of misusing the review room monitors, which they are allowed to consult for other reasons; Houston was using their own camera that is not supposed to be viewed live during the game.

Even more fundamentally, I don't think it passes the smell test that bench coaches have that kind of autonomy about their areas of responsibility during the game.

Like, do you think in 2018 and '19 Roenicke could decide for himself over Cora's objections where he stood and what his role was when the Red Sox are at bat? Because that's what Hinch claims happened here. It's absurd on its face.

No, the Astros were circling the wagons, and Cora was the odd man out. He actively participated, so he is not in a position to deny anything. He is no longer in Houston, and (even better) now with a rival. That makes it look like this is a league-wide story, instead of a story of league-wide low-level boundary pushing with Houston's scheme as a massive outlier — which is what everything reported heretofore suggests.
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Moderator
SoSH Member
I'd wait until the findings in the 2018 investigation are over. Remember, Cora's yet to be suspended. I don't think he get's more than Hinch for the Houston incident, what comes out of Boston determines his fate. If the total is anything less than a 2 years I think he's back at some point. He may have to start at a lower level and work his way back up, but he'll get a job. If it's only a year, he'll be back within a year or so after the suspension depending on who needs a manager and if the fit is right. Perhaps a post Don Mattingly Miami is a good landing spot.
Unless it emerges that everyone was doing what Houston did, I don’t see Cora getting back into The Show in any uniform-wearing capacity. Why would any team invite the scrutiny?

I hope I’m wrong.
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2008
12,408
I also think that as more information emerges about Houston, the narrative that Cora was heavily involved in the scheme but Hinch and Luhnow were not will come to seem threadbare. I also think the Commissioner's heavy penalties suggest he doesn't believe that narrative, whatever the report says. You don't suspend Luhnow for a year for missing a few crucial emails.

I don't believe that bench coaches in most organizations have the authority to get live center field camera footage, which is allowed as I understand it only for purposes of player development, routed to a monitor in the tunnel between the clubhouse and the dugout. The other teams have been accused of misusing the review room monitors, which they are allowed to consult for other reasons; Houston was using their own camera that is not supposed to be viewed live during the game.

Even more fundamentally, I don't think it passes the smell test that bench coaches have that kind of autonomy about their areas of responsibility during the game.

Like, do you think in 2018 and '19 Roenicke could decide for himself over Cora's objections where he stood and what his role was when the Red Sox are at bat? Because that's what Hinch claims happened here. It's absurd on its face.

No, the Astros were circling the wagons, and Cora was the odd man out. He actively participated, so he is not in a position to deny anything. He is no longer in Houston, and (even better) now with a rival. That makes it look like this is a league-wide story, instead of a story of league-wide low-level boundary pushing with Houston's scheme as a massive outlier — which is what everything reported heretofore suggests.
Well said!
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
Unless it emerges that everyone was doing what Houston did, I don’t see Cora getting back into The Show in any uniform-wearing capacity. Why would any team invite the scrutiny?

I hope I’m wrong.
I think there is still enough upside for some teams to hire him. People might question (and rightfully so) what went on in relation to any sign stealing shenanigans in both Houston and Boston, but what was the biggest thing that amazed us all about the job Cora did in 2018? Time, after time, after time we all heard and uttered the same phrase. Cora continually "pushed all of the right buttons" His instincts on substitutions, match ups on BOTH sides of the ball, line up construction etc.... more often than not seemed to work out well. Only so much of that can be attributed to sign stealing. He is by all accounts a good baseball mind with many years still ahead of him. IMO, unless MLB makes a concerted effort to keep him out of the game he's got a lot to offer and someone will hire him to wear a major league uniform again.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,099
The Sox handled the press conference as best as they could; honestly, criticizing their answers is going out of the way to find fault for no good reason.

The team from Henry on down obviously still had a lot of respect and admiration for Cora. It's not 100% out of the question that Cora could even return to the team in some capacity some day, but that would obviously be some time down the road. The whole thing is a shame; I'm not going to throw faux-outrage at Cora's way. He will have my respect as one of the team's best field managers since Francona. And I do not recognize the desire among Sox fans to place any sort of "shift-8" punctuation on 2018.

I think the team feels that Cora's transgressions while he was with the Sox were relatively minor. And if what has been reported is accurate, that is absolutely a fair assessment. Now, the punishment may not be minor, given the idiotic Apple Watch fiasco, but it will certainly be less than what Houston got. In any event, nothing Henry & Co. said today will have any impact whatsoever on what gets handed down from the Commissioner's office.
 
Jul 5, 2018
430
It appears to make sense in this case. T
The Sox handled the press conference as best as they could; honestly, criticizing their answers is going out of the way to find fault for no good reason.

The team from Henry on down obviously still had a lot of respect and admiration for Cora. It's not 100% out of the question that Cora could even return to the team in some capacity some day, but that would obviously be some time down the road. The whole thing is a shame; I'm not going to throw faux-outrage at Cora's way. He will have my respect as one of the team's best field managers since Francona. And I do not recognize the desire among Sox fans to place any sort of "shift-8" punctuation on 2018.

I think the team feels that Cora's transgressions while he was with the Sox were relatively minor. And if what has been reported is accurate, that is absolutely a fair assessment. Now, the punishment may not be minor, given the idiotic Apple Watch fiasco, but it will certainly be less than what Houston got. In any event, nothing Henry & Co. said today will have any impact whatsoever on what gets handed down from the Commissioner's office.
How would you feel about Cora if you were a Dodgers fan?
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,099
Never said the respect for Cora would be unanimous. And the feelings of Dodgers fans is not John Henry's problem.
 

EvilEmpire

paying for his sins
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2007
17,182
Washington
If the Sox escape any organizational penalties after the investigation is complete, I think there is a small chance Cora could back to the organization. If they lose drafts picks? I think a lot of those good feelings go away.
 

DeadlySplitter

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 20, 2015
33,252
Pete Abe in the Sunday notes:

Red Sox manager John Farrell and Yankees manager Joe Girardi were both fired in 2017 after losing playoff series against Houston. The Astros hammered Chris Sale at home in Game 1 of the Division Series, then Drew Pomeranz in Game 2.

The Astros then won a seven-game American League Championship Series against the Yankees. They averaged 3.75 runs at home in that series, 1.6 on the road.

Farrell was fired for reasons that went beyond losing the ALDS. But had the Red Sox won that series and acquitted themselves well in the ALCS, perhaps Farrell keeps his job.

Cora broke the rules to help Houston beat the Sox then took Farrell’s job, at least partially as a result. That’s an act you can never explain away.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2020/01/18/recapping-baseball-week-scandal/0KZaIafIhCDO0vofkMLo8N/story.html