ALCS: Yankees vs Astros (Non-Yankees Fan Version)

Van Everyman

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terry, I think it has more to do with reputation. The Dodgers have only been at the spending big game for the last few years – IIRC, it was the Mets before that. The Yankees have been watching payroll pretty closely under Hal since at least 2009, when they opened up the checkbook for Tex, CC and AJ and Cashman openly admitted to the NYT that the team was desperate. Since then, tho, they've been managing around the LT pretty closely.

All that said, it's hard to outrun The Boss's rep in this department. Who was the FA hitter who was...fine that he signed to that enormous contract in the 1970s? I am totally forgetting who it was and the internet is not helping.
 

terrynever

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Too early for the criticism, I think. They haven't won a championship with that advantage yet. It may come if they do. I think it certainly will if they win a few.

Edit: That said, it probably won't reach the heights of Yankees vitriol. I don't think fans on the west coast care about baseball enough to drive it.
Well said. The Yankees have always been hated. The Brooklyn Dodgers had their enemies but once the franchise moved west, the passion went away.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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It's like Vince McMahon and the word "belt."
And a few other words.

All kidding aside, how pissed must MLB to lose out on a World Series of Dodgers vs. Yankees. Houston is a great story and the hurricane stuff will make them sentimental favorites but let's be honest: Yanks vs. Dodgers would have been a lot more attractive to the casual viewer than 'Stros vs. Dodgers. Game 7's results screwed them out of a chance to maybe reestablish baseball as America's game a bit with all the football flap going on and instead they get a series that basically only matters to the western part of the country.

Baseball really is a funny game some times. FOX obviously wanted that series and I'm sure their execs are pouting a bit today.

Good.
 

terrynever

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terry, I think it has more to do with reputation. The Dodgers have only been at the spending big game for the last few years – IIRC, it was the Mets before that. The Yankees have been watching payroll pretty closely under Hal since at least 2009, when they opened up the checkbook for Tex, CC and AJ and Cashman openly admitted to the NYT that the team was desperate. Since then, tho, they've been managing around the LT pretty closely.

All that said, it's hard to outrun The Boss's rep in this department. Who was the FA hitter who was...fine that he signed to that enormous contract in the 1970s? I am totally forgetting who it was and the internet is not helping.
Oscar Gamble. He had really big hair. (Just kidding.)
No, you are right, it was the new Dodgers ownership that stepped up the spending and took Gonzo away from Boston, and Nick Punto!
 

NYCSox

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Too early for the criticism, I think. They haven't won a championship with that advantage yet. It may come if they do. I think it certainly will if they win a few.

Edit: That said, it probably won't reach the heights of Yankees vitriol. I don't think fans on the west coast care about baseball enough to drive it. Which is kind of a shame for the Dodgers really. The vitriol comes because fans really care. I think that energy elevates everything, in ways both good and bad.
Probably doesn't hurt that their bitter rival was collecting trophies earlier in the decade.

No, I am asking why the Dodgers haven't taken the same kind of hit as the Yankees take for outspending everyone. Also, the Yankees are going under next year's cap. That is the owner's main priority this offseason. The Yankees no longer believe in buying top stars heading to the back side of their careers.
Yeah yeah I've heard that one before. Maybe this time they are actually telling the truth. :)
 

tims4wins

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Simply put people don’t hate them - yet - because they haven’t won anything, and partly due to east coast bias. If they win a title or two, they will be hated
 

Blue Monkey

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I grew up in Central CT, truly the front line. Used to have these "hat bets" on occasion when they played each other, whereby the loser of the bet would have to wear the winning team's hat for a day. After 3 of these bets, all of which I won, I quit. Because I knew eventually I'd lose, and just the thought of me having to wear a MFY hat made me literally sick.
Indeed. I made a few of these bets as well. I however was always on the losing end. Growing up in CT as a sox fan in the 90's was pure hell. Really makes me appreciate YED more because back then it was a rare occurrence.
 

Remagellan

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I think the reason for this is that they never expected to be here and they are super excited for the future. At least that is impacting how I am feeling about the loss.

This is the proper attitude to take. And I hope the one I would have taken has the Sox lost in similar fashion. All that happened is they lost a series in which the home team won all its games. There is no shame in that.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I grew up in Central CT, truly the front line. Used to have these "hat bets" on occasion when they played each other, whereby the loser of the bet would have to wear the winning team's hat for a day. After 3 of these bets, all of which I won, I quit. Because I knew eventually I'd lose, and just the thought of me having to wear a MFY hat made me literally sick.
Yeah, I grew up in Central CT too. When I go back to visit now, it seems like much more Yankees territory than it was back when I was there. I went to grammar school in the 70s. It was so evenly divided. You were expected to declare and it affected your life. I remember that even like picking for kickball teams had more to do with who you rooted for in baseball than how good you were.

I mean it's sports and whatever so it's not like that important in the larger scale of things, but it really was tribal. To this day, I remember the school bus after games 6 and 7 in the 1975 world series and how crazy it all was.
 

glasspusher

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Too early for the criticism, I think. They haven't won a championship with that advantage yet. It may come if they do. I think it certainly will if they win a few.

Edit: That said, it probably won't reach the heights of Yankees vitriol. I don't think fans on the west coast care about baseball enough to drive it. Which is kind of a shame for the Dodgers really. The vitriol comes because fans really care. I think that energy elevates everything, in ways both good and bad.
If it makes you feel any better I have two young friends and former interns that are very passionate about the Giants- their Dodgers hate is pretty impressive.
 

Al Zarilla

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And a few other words.

All kidding aside, how pissed must MLB to lose out on a World Series of Dodgers vs. Yankees. Houston is a great story and the hurricane stuff will make them sentimental favorites but let's be honest: Yanks vs. Dodgers would have been a lot more attractive to the casual viewer than 'Stros vs. Dodgers. Game 7's results screwed them out of a chance to maybe reestablish baseball as America's game a bit with all the football flap going on and instead they get a series that basically only matters to the western part of the country.

Baseball really is a funny game some times. FOX obviously wanted that series and I'm sure their execs are pouting a bit today.

Good.
Yankees vs. Dodgers...my first awareness of baseball might have been when our Roman Catholic Nun teacher marched us down to the basement, where they had a projector, at St. Mary’s school to show us grainy World Series films. Always Dodgers - Yankees. That Billy Martin running catch in the infield. Mel Allen, one of a handful of best baseball announcers ever, IMO. I was getting prepared for another Dodgers - Yankees WS, with the TV fidelity a bit better. The pairing we got is better too.

 

dcmissle

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Boston is in a different place than the Yankees though. Over the past two years Boston has gone out an acquired two ace quality pitchers. Stuff like that leads to different expectations. The Yankees biggest offseason acquisition was the corpse of Matt Holliday. When you make moves like the Red Sox did the past offseason it is a different mindset.
True enough.

But even a casual fan knows that acquisitions guarantee nothing -- and so too should idiots with radio microphones who condescendingly pretend to be sophisticated and above us common folks.

Was it foreseeable that Houston's remarkable rebuild would pay off sooner than later? That Cleveland would continue to excel? That the Yankees might be ahead of schedule? Yes.

Failing to make the postseason would have been fair grist for the "I am pissed off" mill.

But once in, you are in warts and all and the fair fan takes the good with the bad.
 

jon abbey

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The Dodgers spend in a very different way than the Yankees did when people hated them for doing it. NY would buy every superstar they could hitting FA plus pay/overpay to keep their own guys, but that approach wouldn't work in today's game. The Dodgers have used payroll to increase their depth and options, they don't hold onto obviously terrible contracts usually (AGon and Ethier excepted), they move them and take the financial hit, but the roster they're actually winning with isn't filled with big salary guys signed away from other teams.

Also teams like LAD and HOU and NYY are spending (I think) more and more money on scouting these days, scouting their opposition before they play them, scouting other teams to try to find young underachieving talent they can acquire cheaply, draft scouting to get steals in the lower rounds, etc.

keithlaw‏Verified account @keithlaw 13h13 hours ago
This year's World Series pits the team with the largest analytics department (LAD) against the team most aggressive in using analytics (HOU)
 

E5 Yaz

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The more I think about that game yesterday, the most surprising thing to me is Gregorious striking out four times. I mean, I'm thrilled he did ... but it just seemed so out of character
 

jon abbey

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The more I think about that game yesterday, the most surprising thing to me is Gregorious striking out four times. I mean, I'm thrilled he did ... but it just seemed so out of character
On 14 total pitches!
 

NYCSox

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terry, I think it has more to do with reputation. The Dodgers have only been at the spending big game for the last few years – IIRC, it was the Mets before that. The Yankees have been watching payroll pretty closely under Hal since at least 2009, when they opened up the checkbook for Tex, CC and AJ and Cashman openly admitted to the NYT that the team was desperate. Since then, tho, they've been managing around the LT pretty closely.
Desperate for what? Eight years without winning? Oh noes!!

You'd think a city that has the Knicks and Rangers would be used to coming up empty year after year. :)
 

jon abbey

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Pressure get to him?
I think he had a .988 OPS in the postseason before that, which included four previous win-or-go-home games, so probably not. In fact, in the two previous single elimination games (WC vs Twins, game 5 vs CLE), he had three home runs, carrying the offense in both games. There is more pressure in a ALCS game 7 than a ALDS game 5, but not that much more.
 

dhellers

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Thank you both.

And sorry for the insulting portion.lol It comes from being tortured and taunted growing up during the 90’s-00’s in a town that was split Sox/Yanks fans. You develop a bit of a chip (to say the least).
Since then I have met a handful of Yankees fans that don’t meet the stereotypes and to them (you guys) I’ll admit there is now a bit of empathy...but still...it’s hard not to be pleased.
Should be exciting (anxiety inducing) for the near future with both these teams expected to be contenders.
I too have several MFY fans at work; and what I have learned over 28 years is simple: it is MUCH easier to keep the vampire in the coffin, than it is to put him back in. Feeling a bid of sad for the MFYs, a sensation I have felt from time to time (i.e.; back in June) is merely the vampire's way of inducing inaction.

So, as hard as it maybe, do NOT forget that feelings of empathy are a TRAP. Your MFY fans will forgive you for not relishing their plight.
 

E5 Yaz

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I think he had a .988 OPS in the postseason before that, which included four previous win-or-go-home games, so probably not. In fact, in the two previous single elimination games (WC vs Twins, game 5 vs CLE), he had three home runs, carrying the offense in both games. There is more pressure in a ALCS game 7 than a ALDS game 5, but not that much more.
MLBTR (because I'm too cheap to pay for The Athletic:

Yankees hitters looked helpless against Astros pitchers Charlie Morton and Lance McCullers in Game 7 of the American League Championship Series on Saturday, and part of the credit for that goes to Houston’s reliance on analytics, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic explains (subscription required and recommended). New York’s fastball-hitting offense had its way at times during a three-game home romp over Houston in the middle of the series, prompting the Astros’ analytics department to suggest the team’s pitchers throw more breaking balls.
 
Oct 6, 2017
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Yeah, I grew up in Central CT too. When I go back to visit now, it seems like much more Yankees territory than it was back when I was there.
I think Central CT had more Sox fans back in the day because of the Bristol/New Britain AA connection. When you can follow and get to know prospects, you tend to stick with them in the majors.

I vividly remember how I became a Sox fan. Every day a classmate named Mark would repeat the same names over and over, Pudge-Rooster-Eck-Yaz-Jim Ed-Dewey etc. He was funny as hell in a Jim Carrey kind of way, jumped up on a classroom table wrapped in the American flag pretending to search for his father just like Jim Craig. Every day I give thanks he was a Sox fan instead of a Yankee fan.
 

bankshot1

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Cashman is good and lucky, but he got his ass bailed out by two kids who hit 85 home runs and a recovering fat alcoholic.

But the "baby bombers" are hardly a cutting edge product of Cashman brilliance.He was years behind his competitors, had totally misread the market, was tied up in several bad long-term contracts, and then he pulled 3-cards for an inside straight.

Its good to be lucky and have a $210 million payroll and have the resources to add (face value) another $40 million at the trade deadline to patch some holes.
 
Aug 18, 2010
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I think Central CT had more Sox fans back in the day because of the Bristol/New Britain AA connection. When you can follow and get to know prospects, you tend to stick with them in the majors.

I vividly remember how I became a Sox fan. Every day a classmate named Mark would repeat the same names over and over, Pudge-Rooster-Eck-Yaz-Jim Ed-Dewey etc. He was funny as hell in a Jim Carrey kind of way, jumped up on a classroom table wrapped in the American flag pretending to search for his father just like Jim Craig. Every day I give thanks he was a Sox fan instead of a Yankee fan.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with this. I'm a lifelong Central CT resident, except for my college years, and it seems to me there are as many Sox fans around here as ever. Maybe I don't get out as much as I used to, but I think winning championships in '04, '07 and '13 has mellowed some of the Sox fans. It's no longer a life long obsession to see the Sox win a World Series, and I think some Sox fans don't feel the need to flaunt their allegiance. This past week I did however notice a lot of sentiment for hating the MFY.
 
Oct 6, 2017
118
Simply put people don’t hate them - yet - because they haven’t won anything, and partly due to east coast bias. If they win a title or two, they will be hated
I think the fanbases are a factor as well. Dodgers fans are very laid back, very chill. And Magic Johnson is a lot more likeable than the Steinbrenners.
 
Oct 6, 2017
118
I'm going to respectfully disagree with this. I'm a lifelong Central CT resident, except for my college years, and it seems to me there are as many Sox fans around here as ever. Maybe I don't get out as much as I used to, but I think winning championships in '04, '07 and '13 has mellowed some of the Sox fans. It's no longer a life long obsession to see the Sox win a World Series, and I think some Sox fans don't feel the need to flaunt their allegiance. This past week I did however notice a lot of sentiment for hating the MFY.
What part of Central CT, northern half or southern half?

I'm a numbers guy, so of course I'll refer to the most recent Quinnipiac poll. ;)

http://fox61.com/2016/06/09/yankees-beat-red-sox-in-qu-poll-of-connecticut-fans-favorite-teams/

The Yankees are still number one in the hearts of Connecticut baseball fans, topping the Boston Red Sox 44 to 36 percent in Quinnipiac University’s 14th Annual Connecticut Baseball Poll released Thursday.


This is the biggest lead in 11 years.


The New York Mets can claim 13 percent of the state’s fans, which is double last year’s ranking.


The split is 55 percent Yankees and 13 percent Red Sox in Fairfield County and 48 percent Yankees to 29 percent Red Sox in New Haven and Middlesex Counties. As you head north and east, the Red Sox dominate 50 – 34 percent in Hartford County and 54 – 37 percent in Tolland, Windham and New London Counties.
 

VORP Speed

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The Dodgers spend in a very different way than the Yankees did when people hated them for doing it. NY would buy every superstar they could hitting FA plus pay/overpay to keep their own guys, but that approach wouldn't work in today's game. The Dodgers have used payroll to increase their depth and options, they don't hold onto obviously terrible contracts usually (AGon and Ethier excepted), they move them and take the financial hit, but the roster they're actually winning with isn't filled with big salary guys signed away from other teams.

Also teams like LAD and HOU and NYY are spending (I think) more and more money on scouting these days, scouting their opposition before they play them, scouting other teams to try to find young underachieving talent they can acquire cheaply, draft scouting to get steals in the lower rounds, etc.

keithlaw‏Verified account @keithlaw 13h13 hours ago
This year's World Series pits the team with the largest analytics department (LAD) against the team most aggressive in using analytics (HOU)
https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodgers-hernandez-20171019-story,amp.html

"The small-market principles he used to guide the Rays to their only World Series appearance were now being applied with a big-market budget."
 
Aug 18, 2010
675
Connecticut
What part of Central CT, northern half or southern half?

I'm a numbers guy, so of course I'll refer to the most recent Quinnipiac poll. ;)

http://fox61.com/2016/06/09/yankees-beat-red-sox-in-qu-poll-of-connecticut-fans-favorite-teams/

The Yankees are still number one in the hearts of Connecticut baseball fans, topping the Boston Red Sox 44 to 36 percent in Quinnipiac University’s 14th Annual Connecticut Baseball Poll released Thursday.


This is the biggest lead in 11 years.


The New York Mets can claim 13 percent of the state’s fans, which is double last year’s ranking.


The split is 55 percent Yankees and 13 percent Red Sox in Fairfield County and 48 percent Yankees to 29 percent Red Sox in New Haven and Middlesex Counties. As you head north and east, the Red Sox dominate 50 – 34 percent in Hartford County and 54 – 37 percent in Tolland, Windham and New London Counties.
Wallingford, so at the extreme northern part of New Haven county. Most of my friends, co-workers and people I may talk with are from the north of me.

My wife works at the Wallingford Cumberland Farms. She just told me that yesterday she saw a few people wearing MFY shirts before the game. Today there were none. :)