After Soto

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
7,571
I don't care about getting into a bidding war with the Dodgers and Yankees over Teoscar. The time to sign him to a reasonable deal was last offseason. Giving him 3/$75M or something would just be a desperation move.

I don't love Santander either.

For the RHH bat, need to find this year's version of O'Neill. Resources on pitching.
I'm kinda wondering if it'd be possible to get Schwarber back at DH for one full season in a trade.... crazy? Would a swap of Yoshida and Hamilton be laughed at?
I'm just wondering what available low impact (on the Sox prospects) good RH batters would be available with just a year or two remaining?
 

Cassvt2023

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 17, 2023
1,232
Is anyone surprised that it's almost 2pm EST, and there hasn't been a trade or FA signing announced yet today? ( I think both Conforto and Treinen were late last night). I figured that with the Soto signing done, the dominoes would really start to fall by now.
 

chawson

Hoping for delivery
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
5,184
For the RHH bat, need to find this year's version of O'Neill.
The closest comparison out there for an arb3 outfielder who hits lefties really well is Lane Thomas. But for an unanticipated hitter acquisition that could become a core member of next year's lineup, my answer is Gleyber Torres.
 

TomRicardo

rusty cohlebone
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 6, 2006
21,828
Row 14
At year 7 I (probably) agree… tho it’s less diversified and a down year/injury from Soto really sinks you.

But having to guarantee years 8-15 at 50M+ for a mid to late 30s DH makes this an easy call in favor of Fried/Bregman for me.
Soto in years 8-15 will be more likely to give you positive contract value than Bregman today.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
29,258
Newton
The closest comparison out there for an arb3 outfielder who hits lefties really well is Lane Thomas. But for an unanticipated hitter acquisition that could become a core member of next year's lineup, my answer is Gleyber Torres.
The symmetry with Chapman (and Theo) already in the fold would be something.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
22,749
Rogers Park
I'm kinda wondering if it'd be possible to get Schwarber back at DH for one full season in a trade.... crazy? Would a swap of Yoshida and Hamilton be laughed at?
I'm just wondering what available low impact (on the Sox prospects) good RH batters would be available with just a year or two remaining?
What about Jo Adell. Not a good RH batter per se but perhaps a good batter against LHP.

Classic postprospect, a classic toolshed outfielder (huge power, bad contact, good sprint speed, strong but inaccurate throwing arm). IMO, Adell has been a casualty of the Angels impatient development philosophy. He'd probably be very available in trade.

92986
 

NickEsasky

Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2001
9,823
Is anyone surprised that it's almost 2pm EST, and there hasn't been a trade or FA signing announced yet today? ( I think both Conforto and Treinen were late last night). I figured that with the Soto signing done, the dominoes would really start to fall by now.
Jordan Romano is a Phillie
 

Sox Pride

New Member
Nov 25, 2005
248
The Triangle
Is anyone surprised that it's almost 2pm EST, and there hasn't been a trade or FA signing announced yet today? ( I think both Conforto and Treinen were late last night). I figured that with the Soto signing done, the dominoes would really start to fall by now.
I feel a bunch of new bidders entered several markets.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
13,092
Honestly the Sox could do absolutely nothing else but start the season with Anthony in LF and they'd be a "contender". Add another FA SP in Fried or Burns and they're right there.
I also am thinking they should empty the Soto money into Sasaki- obviously not $70M..... but adding Fried for $30M and Sasaki for $25M is basically that right there.
Then you can think of dealing Crawford and Yoshida and to add a DH RH bat in a trade? I still would like a DH type that could spell 3B and 1B in case of an injury- I guess Romy works there
Unfortunately for 2025 Sasaki has to be signed for international bonus pool money and get paid MLB minimum. But they can certainly promise him a Yamamoto like contract for 2026. And they should definitely lean hard in that direction. Couldn't help to trade for some extra international bonus pool money to facilitate that.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
53,178
we need to get in the habit of including Giolito in rotation threads
Eh, marking a guy down in ink who is returning from elbow surgery and was terrible the previous season seems like a good way to have another 40+ starts from a mix of swingmen and relievers, and/or a good way to talk yourself into signing the next Lucas Giolito instead of a difference maker.
 

chrisfont9

Member
SoSH Member
Eh, marking a guy down in ink who is returning from elbow surgery and was terrible the previous season seems like a good way to have another 40+ starts from a mix of swingmen and relievers, and/or a good way to talk yourself into signing the next Lucas Giolito instead of a difference maker.
However you view him, I'm pretty sure they plan to have six starters and at least two more contingencies (Whitlock? Fitts? tbd). But when he is ready, which is expected this spring since he had the bracing and not a full tear, he is absolutely going to be in their rotation plans. You might be worried about his 2023 numbers but they signed him anyway, so they aren't.

Anyway, they have four; they need two more guys regardless.
 

ehaz

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2007
5,069
The closest comparison out there for an arb3 outfielder who hits lefties really well is Lane Thomas. But for an unanticipated hitter acquisition that could become a core member of next year's lineup, my answer is Gleyber Torres.
The Seiya Suzuki idea is also interesting.

For a bigger splash acquisition, Brent Rooker? Pure DH, but massive lineup addition. Oakland, I mean Las Vegas Sacramento(?) is supposedly trying to extend him, but if that fails, he's gone before the new stadium opens. How much do you give up for three years of a DH (albeit a really good one)? I don't know.
 

simplicio

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 11, 2012
9,777
The Seiya Suzuki idea is also interesting.

For a bigger splash acquisition, Brent Rooker? Pure DH, but massive lineup addition. Oakland, I mean Las Vegas Sacramento(?) is supposedly trying to extend him, but if that fails, he's gone before the new stadium opens. How much do you give up for three years of a DH (albeit a really good one)? I don't know.
Rooker has been excellent but they've been clear about not moving him. Hell, they want to extend him and they've only extended one guy in the last decade.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2021
15,555
I don’t think adding a player who is purely a DH really makes much sense, either, as good a hitter as he is, it’s not a great fit.
 

Cassvt2023

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 17, 2023
1,232
I don’t think adding a player who is purely a DH really makes much sense, either, as good a hitter as he is, it’s not a great fit.
Agree. I think in a perfect world, they would find a RH bat that could spell the corners to allow Raffy and Casas to get off their feet a couple times a week but keep their bat(s) in the lineup. I just don't know who that is out side of an aging Christian Walker.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
13,092
Eh, marking a guy down in ink who is returning from elbow surgery and was terrible the previous season seems like a good way to have another 40+ starts from a mix of swingmen and relievers, and/or a good way to talk yourself into signing the next Lucas Giolito instead of a difference maker.
The 2023 numbers might be reflective of the growing elbow issue which was, theoretically, addressed with the ulnar brace to offload strain from the ULC. Whatever the over/under is on Giolito being good in 25 I'd bet the over.
 

chawson

Hoping for delivery
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
5,184
Agree. I think in a perfect world, they would find a RH bat that could spell the corners to allow Raffy and Casas to get off their feet a couple times a week but keep their bat(s) in the lineup. I just don't know who that is out side of an aging Christian Walker.
(*coughs*) Gleyber Torres
 

JohntheBaptist

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 13, 2005
11,500
Yoknapatawpha County
I'm remembering that Teoscar Hernandez and Vladimir Guerrero Jr. are very good friends.

So yes, sign Fried and Teoscar this winter and Vladdy next.
Please for the love of god retire the "these guys are friends" "he grew up a Red Sox fan" "these guys are cousins" thing. I'm begging you. It means absolutely nothing, never has, and there are scant to no examples of it making any kind of difference.
 

simplicio

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 11, 2012
9,777
Yes, there was reporting a couple days ago that they're trying to free up money via Suzuki and/or Bellinger.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
74,958
(*coughs*) Gleyber Torres
Gleyber flat out refused to move to 3B this year when NY traded for Chisholm, maybe it’d be different if he was asked to do that over the winter but I’d consider him solely a 2B.
 

ookami7m

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
6,050
Mobile, AL
What about Jo Adell. Not a good RH batter per se but perhaps a good batter against LHP.

Classic postprospect, a classic toolshed outfielder (huge power, bad contact, good sprint speed, strong but inaccurate throwing arm). IMO, Adell has been a casualty of the Angels impatient development philosophy. He'd probably be very available in trade.

View attachment 92986
I have followed Jo Adell since he was in AA in Mobile - he was one of those guys who the ball just sounded better off the bat than everyone else. You could tell he was a real prospect. That said, while he has tremendous bat speed and decent hard hit numbers, he swings through too many pitches and doesn't take walks. Reclamation project, maybe but nothing that I would put a ton of reliance on.

92992
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
14,857
Soto in years 8-15 will be more likely to give you positive contract value than Bregman today.
Mid to late 30s DH Soto at 50M per season is more likely to be worth his contract than 2025 Bregman at 25-30M AAV? I could not possibly disagree with this more strongly.

Bregman has been worth 43M, 36M, and 33M the last 3 years per Fangraphs. His 8 WAR years of 2018/2019 are almost surely gone, but I think he is a decent bet to be worth 3-4 WAR for a few more years. That will give you positive value.

Year 8 Soto will unlikely be worth his contract. Year 12-15 Soto will almost definitely not be.

I'm not a huge Bregman fan or anything, but I do think the numbers being thrown around on him make him a decent signing. Devers to 1B or DH is going to have to happen (hopefully soon) and I can get behind Campbell and Bregman 2B/3B.

Still fine to just spend on pitching and not do much on offense as well.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
20,975
Somewhere
The thinking behind Bregman is that you’re getting a repeat of Adrian Beltre. I don’t know if his defense and durability hold up the same way but it’s an idea worth exploring.
 

barclay

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 27, 2006
1,992
Just an observation: Theo has some influence on this process, even though it's hard to say how much. But recall that in 2004 he traded a beloved player, Nomar, for elite D at SS and 1B -- and look what happened. He values D. Which is to say that the Bregman smoke has real fire behind it IMO. Bregman and Story change the left side of the infield dramatically. If they can get him for a reasonable price, I expect it to happen.
 

cornwalls@6

Less observant than others
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
6,839
from the wilds of western ma
Please for the love of god retire the "these guys are friends" "he grew up a Red Sox fan" "these guys are cousins" thing. I'm begging you. It means absolutely nothing, never has, and there are scant to no examples of it making any kind of difference.
Thank you. Players want to get paid, and they want to win. That's the extent of their criteria when choosing a free agent destination in the vast majority of cases. Maybe something lifestyle related, like preferring to be on the west coast, etc. also comes into play in some instances. At least as a tie breaker. But friendships, and what posters/trading cards/footie pajamas they had when they were 10 means absolutely nothing.
 

ehaz

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2007
5,069
Just an observation: Theo has some influence on this process, even though it's hard to say how much. But recall that in 2004 he traded a beloved player, Nomar, for elite D at SS and 1B -- and look what happened. He values D. Which is to say that the Bregman smoke has real fire behind it IMO. Bregman and Story change the left side of the infield dramatically. If they can get him for a reasonable price, I expect it to happen.
Except all the smoke is being reported with Bregman as a 2B (including Cora's comments today).

I don't think they're trading Devers or moving him off 3B now. Having Bregman on the roster does give you flexibility to do it in future seasons though.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2022
1,807
The thinking behind Bregman is that you’re getting a repeat of Adrian Beltre. I don’t know if his defense and durability hold up the same way but it’s an idea worth exploring.
The interesting thing about Beltre is that it took so long for his offense to truly catch up to his defense.

He was an absolutely elite defensive 3b that never really put it all together offensively as a Dodger. He had that amazing year (walk year) at age 25 and then went back to being kind of a slightly above average offensive player. Then he came to Boston (and Texas) and was a monster offensively and defensively for the rest of his career.

Bregman has been more like a really good defensive 3b and a really good and consistent offensive 3b. (He similarly had two monster seasons at age 24 and 25, Beltre's was one at 25).

Except all the smoke is being reported with Bregman as a 2B (including Cora's comments today).

I don't think they're trading Devers or moving him off 3B now. Having Bregman on the roster does give you flexibility to do it in future seasons though.
Not that I think Bregman is going to happen either way, but doesn't it make sense to only talk about him (or anyone) in a position that doesn't move Devers, until said player is on your roster. There is zero upside to talking about him taking over a 3b and moving Devers only to have Bregman end up back in Houston or Philly (my bet of where he ends up if not Houston). Cora and Breslow may or may not be many things, but dumb is not one of them. Devers is unequivocally the third baseman and they should not say anything else otherwise unless or until they acquire someone that is a better 3b (in which case it becomes a discussion).
 

barclay

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 27, 2006
1,992
Except all the smoke is being reported with Bregman as a 2B (including Cora's comments today).

I don't think they're trading Devers or moving him off 3B now. Having Bregman on the roster does give you flexibility to do it in future seasons though.
You may be right -- that they are thinking of Bregman at 2nd. Cora's comments can be read in a different way -- for example, to protect Devers, who might be sitting at home saying WTF? I'm the 3rd baseman!! If I were Cora I would be ambiguous about where Bregman might play before I have a serious conversation with Devers. But the bigger question is that of musical chairs -- where do for example, Campbell and Anthony play when they come up? Any signing of Bregman to an already overloaded roster means at least one trade, if not more, and it's so hard to read all this because we have no idea about the possible signings and trades and neither do they (hence Plan A, A-1, A-2 etc). My guess is that Bregman goes back to Houston on a much bigger deal. They love him and he loves Houston.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
Thank you. Players want to get paid, and they want to win. That's the extent of their criteria when choosing a free agent destination in the vast majority of cases. Maybe something lifestyle related, like preferring to be on the west coast, etc. also comes into play in some instances. At least as a tie breaker. But friendships, and what posters/trading cards/footie pajamas they had when they were 10 means absolutely nothing.
So I shouldn't call back to those discussions about Giolito and Fried being buddies and try to connect the imaginary dots that feed into the Sean Murphy rumors. Get it done Theo!!! :eek:
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
You may be right -- that they are thinking of Bregman at 2nd. Cora's comments can be read in a different way -- for example, to protect Devers, who might be sitting at home saying WTF? I'm the 3rd baseman!! If I were Cora I would be ambiguous about where Bregman might play before I have a serious conversation with Devers. But the bigger question is that of musical chairs -- where do for example, Campbell and Anthony play when they come up? Any signing of Bregman to an already overloaded roster means at least one trade, if not more, and it's so hard to read all this because we have no idea about the possible signings and trades and neither do they (hence Plan A, A-1, A-2 etc). My guess is that Bregman goes back to Houston on a much bigger deal. They love him and he loves Houston.
Go back to the very beginning of that clip. I'm not sure that this whole Bregman to 2B talk was initiated by Cora. While we don't hear it, Cora sounds like he's addressing a question that's been asked about the discussions of Bregman playing 2B.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
I'm cross posting this from the "Conductor" thread as it might get more eyes on it here. Disregard the talk of Carson Kelly as it seems he's off the board now.

Switching gears now that Soto's off the board, there's not been much talk about Pete Alonso. I know he's not the best defender, but as RH DH/1B option he would be a pretty potent and durable bat to add to the Sox line up. I'm not loving how much he strikes out, but in his 6 mlb seasons his 162 game season average shows 43 HR and 112 RBI. In those 6 seasons he played in 161, 57 (2020), 152, 160. 154 and 162 games. The Soto signing likely bumps up his final price, but I think that's going to be the case for all of the power bats remaining. I'm not convinced it's the way to go, but the Sox would have in in house replacement for Casa who still poses a threat should they need it. If they pursue another bat Bergman might be a better overall fit, but Alonso crushing baseballs ovah and through the monster should bring a lot of enthusiasm from the fanbase. What's below assumes a few players are moved, but I think we all agree that it's likely we lose at least two of the current 13 non pitchers. I also think that what's presented adds RH power, balances the lineup, allows "the kids" to play and allows for decent amount of flexibility. If you think he's a better fit, feel free to swap out Bregman for Alonso. Add one of the two and sign Carson Kelly and I like this team offensively and defensively.


Duran
Devers
Alonso
Casas
Campbell
Anthony
Abreu
Story
Wong

Grissom, Rafaela, RFsnyder and Carson Kelly
 

Sille Skrub

Dope
Dope
SoSH Member
Mar 3, 2004
6,187
Massachusetts
Please for the love of god retire the "these guys are friends" "he grew up a Red Sox fan" "these guys are cousins" thing. I'm begging you. It means absolutely nothing, never has, and there are scant to no examples of it making any kind of difference.
Amen.

1/3 of the board actually thought Soto was coming to Boston because he grew up a Red Sox fan. The only thing that matters is the number after the dollar sign, especially when you hire an agent like Scott Boras.
 

barclay

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 27, 2006
1,992
Go back to the very beginning of that clip. I'm not sure that this whole Bregman to 2B talk was initiated by Cora. While we don't hear it, Cora sounds like he's addressing a question that's been asked about the discussions of Bregman playing 2B.
When Cora says something to the effect that he always envisioned Bregman playing in the middle of the diamond when he (Cora) was part of hte Astro organization and that regardless of what some people thought about his ability with the DP that, in his (Cora's) opinion, Bregman could play anywhere, it does open up the possibility that should Bregman come to the Sox he could play at 2nd (which is not to say that Cora was advocating for that -- merely that it could be read that way). That said, I do not think that Cora would put him there and, if the Sox do sign him, they already have other trades lined up. But again -- I am 90% sure he goes back to Houston.
 

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
96,263
Oregon
Cora also talked about Vaughn Grissom in regards to the 2B position:

the athletic (paywalled): “One thing for sure, and this is something that I'm looking forward to, Vaughn is having an excellent offseason. He's gained some weight. He's putting in work trying to be more explosive.It will be interesting.
“Let's give him a mulligan and give him an opportunity to go to spring training and battle for a job and see what happens.”
 

Beomoose

is insoxicated
SoSH Member
May 28, 2006
22,071
Exiled
Amen.

1/3 of the board actually thought Soto was coming to Boston because he grew up a Red Sox fan. The only thing that matters is the number after the dollar sign, especially when you hire an agent like Scott Boras.
Well the good news is Vladdy isn't repped by Boras.
 

Tokyo Sox

Baka Gaijin
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 16, 2006
6,458
There
Honestly the Sox could do absolutely nothing else but start the season with Anthony in LF and they'd be a "contender". Add another FA SP in Fried or Burns and they're right there.
I also am thinking they should empty the Soto money into Sasaki- obviously not $70M..... but adding Fried for $30M and Sasaki for $25M is basically that right there.
Then you can think of dealing Crawford and Yoshida and to add a DH RH bat in a trade? I still would like a DH type that could spell 3B and 1B in case of an injury- I guess Romy works there
Is Sasaki completely unreasonable? Seems like the Dodgers couldn't afford..... wait what am I saying????
Unfortunately for 2025 Sasaki has to be signed for international bonus pool money and get paid MLB minimum. But they can certainly promise him a Yamamoto like contract for 2026. And they should definitely lean hard in that direction. Couldn't help to trade for some extra international bonus pool money to facilitate that.
I don't think they can promise him a big extension. This has been discussed here a few times (though I can't find the exact text) but teams are not allowed to engage in any behavior that can be interpreted to be circumventing the IFA rules. He's going to make $760k in salary next year so he'll play wherever he most wants to play.

And yes they could trade for extra bonus pool money, but I think it's moot. I think it's 99% Dodgers or Padres, 1% everywhere else. I don't think Sasaki should be part of any Sox fans plans for 2025. Tomoyuki Sugano on the other hand...I'd like to offer him 2/20 or some such and see what we can get.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
13,092
I specified that his ‘25 salary is going to be major league minimum. And I also agree that he’s probably going to end up in San Diego.