AFC Championship Game - We’re on to Kansas City

heavyde050

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Last night it seemed like I was hearing a fair amount of concern that it was a swallow-the-flag moment, and Reid seemed a little skeptical in his presser.
I have seen more people upset about the roughing penalty on Brady, which wasn’t a great call, but all the complainers fail to mention the mugging of the Pats receiver on that play that went uncalled.
Later in the game, the Chiefs got the roughing call and the DPI in a reverse situation where the roughing was legit (Pats guy went low) but the DPI was soft at best.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Was there any discussion why it was Rex as the featured runner even in the I formation in the fourth quarter and overtime? Just fresher legs maybe? Or was it an adjustment to how the Chiefs we’re defending the run when they saw that Michel was in the game?
I think part of it was fatigue for Michel, Burkhead’s ability to play two ways, and they seem to see him as a better short yardage back than Michel.
 

Dollar

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That throw and catch to Gronk on 3rd and 5 with 50 seconds left was unbelievable. Brady couldn't have put it any more perfectly, and Gronk just went up and got it.
 

Blue Monkey

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Reiss and CHB at the airport right now getting ready to fly back to Boston... in kc

Edit. Related note. KC airport is a massive shit hole. At least in the B concourse.
 
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johnmd20

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I have seen more people upset about the roughing penalty on Brady, which wasn’t a great call, but all the complainers fail to mention the mugging of the Pats receiver on that play that went uncalled.
Later in the game, the Chiefs got the roughing call and the DPI in a reverse situation where the roughing was legit (Pats guy went low) but the DPI was soft at best.
And the non call on the clear pick play.
 

RGREELEY33

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I actually love all of the “lucky” and “what ifs” and “that is bullshit” takes that we are already hearing.

I look forward to the next 9 days at the office (in Los Angeles) where the Patriots Haters are like “Well, you have to admit that . . . . . “

“Do I? (Smile) Okay. Thanks.”
 

Steve Dillard

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First and goal from the one with 10 seconds left or ahead with 40 seconds?

I don’t trust the defense in the least. I say next time you don’t leave time even if it puts you at risk.
 

RedOctober3829

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I can't believe that Andy Reid did not put the ball in Hill's hand in the entire 2nd half. If he's not getting open, get the ball to him on a quick screen or a jet sweep. Something to get him involved. I thought that was egregious on Reid's part.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I thought the explanation on the roughing the passer was that when Brady was hit Jones touched the facemask and that is an automatic penalty, and when Mahomes was hit Flowers did not.

Factually, both of those things are super-clear. Do I have the rule wrong? The Jones contact was not incidental (though it was fairly de minimis) so I get why someone might think it should have been let go
 

Saints Rest

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That throw and catch to Gronk on 3rd and 5 with 50 seconds left was unbelievable. Brady couldn't have put it any more perfectly, and Gronk just went up and got it.
Was that the sideline pass or the slant? Because the former could have been better, I think. I feel like Brady under throws fades far too often not high enough, especially to Gronk -- I think it was the same issue on the INT in the first quarter which should have been thrown about a foot higher (and also in a game mid-season where he had two failed corner fades to Gronk in the end zone).
 

Just a bit outside

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How did people feel about Dorsett's OPI, since we're talking about calls... JC was getting reputation-type calls against him, too...
The problem with the call was that they refused to call it on the Watkins play before the Chiefs last touchdown. Inconsistency is what makes bad officiating and it was tough to figure what was a penalty and what wasn’t the way the game was called yesterday.
 

Saints Rest

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I have seen more people upset about the roughing penalty on Brady, which wasn’t a great call, but all the complainers fail to mention the mugging of the Pats receiver on that play that went uncalled.
Later in the game, the Chiefs got the roughing call and the DPI in a reverse situation where the roughing was legit (Pats guy went low) but the DPI was soft at best.
And the non call on the clear pick play.
How did people feel about Dorsett's OPI, since we're talking about calls... JC was getting reputation-type calls against him, too...
I thought the explanation on the roughing the passer was that when Brady was hit Jones touched the facemask and that is an automatic penalty, and when Mahomes was hit Flowers did not.

Factually, both of those things are super-clear. Do I have the rule wrong? The Jones contact was not incidental (though it was fairly de minimis) so I get why someone might think it should have been let go
My sense is that if you created a list of all the questionable calls and non-calls in both directions, and tried to objectively (yeah, right) evaluate all of them, you would find that it likely nets out at very little, if any, apparent bias in either direction. What I found interesting, in this vein, was how many of these calls had parallels on both sides (e.g. the two roughing the passer plays, the OPI/pick plays).
 

catomatic

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The problem with the call was that they refused to call it on the Watkins play before the Chiefs last touchdown. Inconsistency is what makes bad officiating and it was tough to figure what was a penalty and what wasn’t the way the game was called yesterday.
May have been the edit on the replay but all I saw was a DB with a sustained hold of a fistful of Dorsett's jersey. My recollection is the play ended a Pats' drive, and was pretty darn critical in the scheme of things. As was JC's call when they appeared to be within 5 yards of LOS and nothing exceptionally untoward happening at all. Romo was all over the pick play that sprung Watkins, I believe, right away.
 

DrewDawg

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Was there any discussion why it was Rex as the featured runner even in the I formation in the fourth quarter and overtime? Just fresher legs maybe? Or was it an adjustment to how the Chiefs we’re defending the run when they saw that Michel was in the game?
Could have something to do with blitz pickup too, although White is good there as well. Michel did have 7 carries in the 4th quarter and scored a TD. The only drive he wasn't in was the final one which was mostly passing, so mostly a hurry up offense so fresh legs was likely a consideration.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Commentary this morning on the radio and on ESPN focused on the "horrible" roughing the passer penalty...CHB mentioned Judge Berman being in the replay booth...no mention of the 3 DPI penalties on the Pats, zero on the Chiefs, despite blatant holds on Dorsett, Gronk and Edelman throughout the game. Rex had no issues with the horrible non-call on the OPI on the Watkins play late in the 4th...not surprising, but always frustrating.

Anyone who watched that game objectively would think that the Chiefs certainly got the benefit of the doubt on DPI and it was a factor...the Pats did get the benefit of the doubt on two replay challenges, although the final Hogan catch being ruled a drop surprised me.
 

E5 Yaz

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I don't understand the thinking of those who know that certain media types will troll, just to incite reaction, and yet continue to listen to those media types and get upset by them.
 

DeadlySplitter

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First and goal from the one with 10 seconds left or ahead with 40 seconds?

I don’t trust the defense in the least. I say next time you don’t leave time even if it puts you at risk.
this team seems to prioritize scoring over anything else in that situation. I thought they could have bled the final timeout out from KC, but you have to acknowledge it's a huge risk. all it takes is the risk of blowing the goal line series and losing outright being greater than the risk of KC coming back quickly (where a FG still gets you to OT, mind you- which is what happened) and your decision is made.

KC losing a timeout on the Hogan upheld catch ended up being huge. they could have had a legit end zone shot or two at the end. I also thought with 11 seconds left they had time for one more end zone shot, and thought Reid got a bit scared going to FG right then. If the thinking was that the FG snap or whatever is bad, you would have to spike it or throw it away to preserve time, how likely was the team prepared to do that and not just panic if that happened?
 

E5 Yaz

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Andy's use/non-use of timeouts yesterday were haunting. It was pointed out in the game thread that his timeout call at the end of the first half helped the Patriots TD drive there. Then there's the loss of the timeout on the Hogan catch, and the lack of calling a timeout on the OT drive -- which Romo was calling for -- just to give the Chiefs D to get a breath
 

Spelunker

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I actually love all of the “lucky” and “what ifs” and “that is bullshit” takes that we are already hearing.

I look forward to the next 9 days at the office (in Los Angeles) where the Patriots Haters are like “Well, you have to admit that . . . . . “

“Do I? (Smile) Okay. Thanks.”
I partially work from LA as well, and while I don't think anyone there actually cares about the Rams I still look forward to a few salty comments.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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this team seems to prioritize scoring over anything else in that situation. I thought they could have bled the final timeout out from KC, but you have to acknowledge it's a huge risk. all it takes is the risk of blowing the goal line series and losing outright being greater than the risk of KC coming back quickly (where a FG still gets you to OT, mind you- which is what happened) and your decision is made.

KC losing a timeout on the Hogan upheld catch ended up being huge. they could have had a legit end zone shot or two at the end. I also thought with 11 seconds left they had time for one more end zone shot, and thought Reid got a bit scared going to FG right then. If the thinking was that the FG snap or whatever is bad, you would have to spike it or throw it away to preserve time, how likely was the team prepared to do that and not just panic if that happened?
Having seen two recent Super Bowls decided on blown goal-to-go “obviously they will score here” situations, I defer to making sure you get the score.
 

Ed Hillel

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Commentary this morning on the radio and on ESPN focused on the "horrible" roughing the passer penalty...CHB mentioned Judge Berman being in the replay booth...no mention of the 3 DPI penalties on the Pats, zero on the Chiefs, despite blatant holds on Dorsett, Gronk and Edelman throughout the game. Rex had no issues with the horrible non-call on the OPI on the Watkins play late in the 4th...not surprising, but always frustrating.

Anyone who watched that game objectively would think that the Chiefs certainly got the benefit of the doubt on DPI and it was a factor...the Pats did get the benefit of the doubt on two replay challenges, although the final Hogan catch being ruled a drop surprised me.
Max Kellerman also said that, as a big Giants fan, he could admit Eli got lucky when he threw an INT right into Wes Welker’s chest, which he dropped. Even if he meant Samuel, that was a tough play that he had to jump for. So yeah.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Looking back at the game. Two plays that are easy to forget but turned out pretty important. The third and one stuff after the red zone interception. Forcing a three and out there was pretty big. Then the 14 yard sack with the Chiefs in field goal position. I don’t know what the Chiefs were viewing as the kick versus punt line in that direction but I bet it was right on the edge not to try a 54-yard field goal and so every yard mattered.

The defense will be perceived as just hanging on after giving up 31 points in a half and that is fair, but they also only gave up 31 for the game in a game where 32 would have lost. Those were two big plays in a game of big plays.
 

Adrian's Dome

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Looking back at the game. Two plays that are easy to forget but we’re pretty important. The third and one stuff after the red zone interception. Forcing a three and out there was pretty big. Then the 14 yard sack with the Chiefs in field goal position. I don’t know what the Chiefs were viewing as the kick versus punt line in that direction but I bet it was right on the edge not to try a 54-yard field goal and so every yard mattered.

The defense will be perceived as just hanging on after giving up 31 points in a half and that if fair, but they also only gave up 31 for the game in a game where 32 would have lost. Those were two big plays in a game f big plays.
Mahomes took two absolutely massive sacks in the game where a more experienced QB likely would've blown the play up and lobbed the ball out of bounds (or perhaps I'm just spoiled by Brady's willingness to kill a play as soon as something seems off.) Mistakes for him to learn from and don't expect him to repeat often.
 

Ferm Sheller

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I don't understand the thinking of those who know that certain media types will troll, just to incite reaction, and yet continue to listen to those media types and get upset by them.
And just to add to this, I find it fascinating that people care about the thoughts of a single person who they don’t even know and never will. Thoughts about a football team.
 

BigSoxFan

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I still can't believe the Chiefs didn't go into the endzone with 11 seconds left in regulation.
I was a bit surprised by this as well. I would have trusted Mahomes to not get sacked or turn it over. Understand why they didn’t but I was ecstatic when they didn’t try it.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Mahomes was so good that drive. I would have given him a chance to win the game. The pass he made to get them to the Patriots’ side of the field was off the charts amazing.
 

Jim Ed Rice in HOF

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Reiss and CHB at the airport right now getting ready to fly back to Boston... in kc

Edit. Related note. KC airport is a massive shit hole. At least in the B concourse.
Commentary this morning on the radio and on ESPN focused on the "horrible" roughing the passer penalty...CHB mentioned Judge Berman being in the replay booth...no mention of the 3 DPI penalties on the Pats, zero on the Chiefs, despite blatant holds on Dorsett, Gronk and Edelman throughout the game.
You had your chance @Blue Monkey. You could have had a street named in your honor, your name spoken about in reverent tones if you’d just taken care of that miserable prick. OK, you may have gone to jail, you may have had to take down a couple hundred other people and yourself as part of the process but dammit CHB would have been gone.
 

E5 Yaz

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Reid also took issue with the offsides call on Dee Ford that negated an interception that likely would have won the game for the Chiefs. The Chiefs coach acknowledged Ford was offsides but said it’s a penalty rarely called in that situation.

“It wasn’t but by a few inches, but I thought it was legitimate,’’ Reid said, via Adam Teicher of ESPN. “. . .Normally, you’re warned, and the coach is warned if somebody is doing that before they throw it in a game of that magnitude. But they did. He didn’t waste any time doing it. He didn’t wait until the interception to throw it. He had his hand on the flag right from the get-go.’’

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/21/andy-reid-takes-issue-with-roughing-offsides-penalties/
 

Harry Hooper

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You had your chance @Blue Monkey. You could have had a street named in your honor, your name spoken about in reverent tones if you’d just taken care of that miserable prick. OK, you may have gone to jail, you may have had to take down a couple hundred other people and yourself as part of the process but dammit CHB would have been gone.
Didn't need something so dramatic. Barring the bathroom door closed so the CHB had to spend the flight in the can would have been sufficient.

The RTP call on Brady was terrible, but understandable given the referee is standing behind the QB. He thought he saw a chop on Brady's head, but the blow never landed. Still, for the complainers that was 2nd down, and look how many 3rd-and-longs Brady completed down the stretch.
 

Adrian's Dome

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Didn't need something so dramatic. Barring the bathroom door closed so the CHB had to spend the flight in the can would have been sufficient.

The RTP call on Brady was terrible, but understandable given the referee is standing behind the QB. He thought he saw a chop on Brady's head, but the blow never landed. Still, for the complainers that was 2nd down, and look how many 3rd-and-longs Brady completed down the stretch.
Every single Pats fan in the bar around me shrugged and said "welp, we'll take it" while also questioning why DPI wasn't called. Nobody that I know has even remotely tried to justify it as legitimate.

It was a BS call made in place of the proper one. Either way, there was an automatic 1st down coming on that play no matter what.
 

Harry Hooper

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Even Andy Reid is whining about calls. I honestly thought he was above this:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/21/andy-reid-takes-issue-with-roughing-offsides-penalties/

There were calls missed both ways, suck it up big guy. To me, the worst miss was no PI on the Dorsett TD. I mean really.
From the article, "Play 27 was a Trey Flowers shot to Patrick Mahomes‘ head..." That's not as cut-and-dried as the author states. Mahomes did a nice job of selling it, I admit.

If Reid brings it up again, make him watch Edelman getting a launch-shot directly to the head by the Chiefs DB. That's a play that merits a fine from NFL HQ, even though no flag was thrown.
 

Mr. Wednesday

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Andy's use/non-use of timeouts yesterday were haunting. It was pointed out in the game thread that his timeout call at the end of the first half helped the Patriots TD drive there. Then there's the loss of the timeout on the Hogan catch, and the lack of calling a timeout on the OT drive -- which Romo was calling for -- just to give the Chiefs D to get a breath
If I remember right, suspect time management is a running issue with Reid's postseason losses.
 

Harry Hooper

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From Curran:

Edelman, who survived a nearly-fateful decision to almost field a bouncing punt (he was found not guilty by replay), was in an unfamiliar spot as the cause of adversity when - two plays after the punt – he had a catchable pass from Brady pong off his hands and turn into an interception that the Chiefs turned into their first lead of the game.
It wasn't mentioned on the broadcast. but it sure looked to me like the defender in front of Edelman tipped the ball just before it got to Edelman.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Bill all but conceded that he viewed the seven points at the end of the first half as a “bonus” and though he wouldn’t bite on questions explicitly it was clear he viewed job number one as running out the clock.

We have seen this all year, and I think in part it’s in part a reflection of a defense that’s susceptible to 20-yard plus plays and quick scoring. As it was, the Chiefs did get some yards on their one play before the strip sack fumble that ended the half.

The Patriots were pretty clearly trying to use the offense as the defense in a way yesterday, and they did just enough.

But the end of the first half stuff intrigues me. What do you prefer to see with this team? A TD with no time is ideal. But as between a TD with two minutes left or a FG with no time left, which is better? Take the three and avoid any chance they will negate your score or take the seven and take your chances they will do no better than a FG and you are one point to the good?

I think it depends a lot on score and situation. And the expected value of a drive is usually less than 4 points on average. But with a lead and this defense I think Belichick is is fine with the net three plus and zero chance of a score the other way.
 

Matty005

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Bill all but conceded that he viewed the seven points at the end of the first half as a “bonus” and though he wouldn’t bite on questions explicitly it was clear he viewed job number one as running out the clock.

We have seen this all year, and I think in part it’s in part a reflection of a defense that’s susceptible to 20-yard plus plays and quick scoring. As it was, the Chiefs did get some yards on their one play before the strip sack fumble that ended the half.


The Patriots were pretty clearly trying to use the offense as the defense in a way yesterday, and they did just enough.

But the end of the first half stuff intrigues me. What do you prefer to see with this team? A TD with no time is ideal. But as between a TD with two minutes left or a FG with no time left, which is better? Take the three and avoid any chance they will negate your score or take the seven and take your chances they will do no better than a FG and you are one point to the good?

I think it depends a lot on score and situation. And the expected value of a drive is usually less than 4 points on average. But with a lead and this defense I think Belichick is is fine with the net three plus and zero chance of a score the other way.
Agree with you, but the only play they ran after the squib kickoff (that was returned to the 42) was the strip sack.
 

DeadlySplitter

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being -2 on turnovers and still forcing OT on the road is pretty remarkable. KC left about the same number of points on the field as well, but we dominated this game in a few ways.

While you never care how you win the postseason, a two possession win is probably what should have happened and would have been even more of a statement.
 

Al Zarilla

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If I remember right, suspect time management is a running issue with Reid's postseason losses.
I don't think that particular weakness of Reid is limited to post-season games. In fact, fanboy taking over, I don't think any team is close to the Patriots in proficiency of this, with the GOAT being the main reason. Actually, Rivers and the Chargers looked pretty good at clock management this post-season.
 

Harry Hooper

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I think this was previously mentioned, but that 4th-and-inches where Burkhead got stoned. Burkhead lined up as the single RB in the backfield to Brady's right, and the Chiefs over-loaded that same side of the LOS in response. Brady probably should have changed the playcall.