Adrian Peterson News & Football related discussion
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I do lean this way as well, because I'm sure if the Vikings had managed to put together a couple more drives like their first one on Sunday, they'd be more willing to hold Peterson out at least another week. It seems obvious why they made this call.
There is no additional information at this point that is going to make Peterson look better, only worse. The Vikings have all the information they need to make the call now on how they want to stand on his behavior. They'd be better off announcing a suspension of at least a few games and hoping that this will help things die down. Now they are only setting themselves up to look more foolish by the day and ensuring that it will remain a distraction for the team.
The Vikings are using "due process" like a person who wants to be insulated from criticism for his loathsome opinions uses "freedom of speech."
These are two examples. My point - in the 538 study - NFL players have a lower propensity to be arrested in literally every crime they looked at. This would suggest that NFL players, by and large - are more law abiding citizens.redsahx said:
I think that defies logic. Not saying that this is a rampant league of lawbreakers, but certainly not much better behaved legally than society in general.
I am just following the logic of being coddled and entitlement - my opinion - and yeah - I cannot bring statistical proof - is that elite athletes skate more than often than not, and not just for traffic tickets.
I am guessing that Joe Blow from the projects - yeah - gets arrested if a woman shows the cops his text thread where he essentially admits scarring a child above the eye.
There is a line in the 538 study about how one would expect lower arrest rates from an affluent group like NFL players where the poverty rate is zero. There are several reasons for that, not just simply that police are less likely to slap cuffs on you once they know who you are , though that could be a slight contributor.21st Century Sox said:
I think it has more to do with society in general being worse than you give it credit for, vs NFL players being great people. It's not just the athletes in college who are sexually assaulting girls at parties to give an example.
Andrew Brandt @adbrandt · 21m
And this. RT @APkrawczynski: eye-opening development: Nike stores in Twin Cities have pulled all Adrian Peterson merch from shelves.
https://twitter.com/adbrandt/status/511959927716204544
And this. RT @APkrawczynski: eye-opening development: Nike stores in Twin Cities have pulled all Adrian Peterson merch from shelves.
https://twitter.com/adbrandt/status/511959927716204544
21st Century Sox said:
I'm unsure of the last time I read a story about this that didn't contain the phrase "long ago..." or "in the past..."
Do you have a link or two about a recent "hustled away" story? I have to follow the odious TMZSports and I haven't seen them blow the lid off a cover-up this week.
21st Century Sox said:
Ah...you are referring to the cesspool that is college athletics, yes?
I do think that if you're making the distinction between "NFL players" and "the players the NFL draws in" you are limiting the critique of "cover up" to that sample. And undoubtedly there are good examples of that from the recent past - Hernandez at Florida being the most relevant.
21st Century Sox said:
I think this is a fine example of selection bias. And we're all prone to it, so no worries.
But I would suggest that recent data - and changes in how sports are covered, celebrity culture and society in general - make it FAR LESS likely that a professional player would "skate" on any incident. "Back in the day" (and in some college hotbeds, still) the police or the team could cover up a bar fight or a speeding ticket. But no longer. A cop who lets a drunk player drive away is not reprimanded by the Chief because if it is found out, the officer is fired and likely prosecuted. The team can't possibly control knowledge of a bar fight from the world because there are as many camera phones as people in the bar. And TMZ pays. Deadspin pays.
You overall point is also undermined by some basic stats - like between 1960 and 2006, three players were suspended by the NFL for non-drug offenses "off-the-field". The number is, as of this post, somewhere close to 100 since. This is because players, teams and authorities can no longer cover-up and the world has changed for professional athletes.
And the 538 article is more convincing because they have data. If you have data, I would love to see it. Things even you admit happen in college towns, references to old ways of reporting sports news, unsupported assertions and some "logic" are not enough to convince me.
Now Anheuser-Busch, has issued a statement, about its concern regarding the NFL's handling of domestic violence and child abuse.
"We are disappointed and increasingly concerned by the recent incidents that have overshadowed this NFL season. We are not yet satisfied with the league's handling of behaviors that so clearly go against our own company culture and moral code. We have shared our concerns and expectations with the league."
While A-B didn't pull $$ out, and it sounds like corporate ass-covering, if more large corporate interests start getting pissed, it may spur the NFL to suspend these guys first and then let due process run its course.
As a onetime resident of Minnesota once noted, "money doesn't talk, it swears
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/09/16/nfl-anheuser-busch-sponsor-domestic-abuse-sponsor/15726217/
"We are disappointed and increasingly concerned by the recent incidents that have overshadowed this NFL season. We are not yet satisfied with the league's handling of behaviors that so clearly go against our own company culture and moral code. We have shared our concerns and expectations with the league."
While A-B didn't pull $$ out, and it sounds like corporate ass-covering, if more large corporate interests start getting pissed, it may spur the NFL to suspend these guys first and then let due process run its course.
As a onetime resident of Minnesota once noted, "money doesn't talk, it swears
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/09/16/nfl-anheuser-busch-sponsor-domestic-abuse-sponsor/15726217/
Reggie Bush: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24711855/reggie-bush-says-hell-discipline-his-daughter-harshly
She's 1. What is the "situation" besides the kid crying?
These guys need to zip it.
She's 1. What is the "situation" besides the kid crying?
These guys need to zip it.
Good thing Reggie's on top of this so she doesn't think she can like, cheat, and cause her school to forfeit every game she plays in.And like have to give back trophies and shit
Myt1 said:
How hard is it for the league to say, for non-violent crimes, due process before suspensions, but for violent crimes, indefinite suspension upon arrest/indictment?
An underlying theme throughout this scandal has been the African American community condoning this type of violent behavior as a normal way of disciplining children, particularly media and fans from the South. Not that child abuse isn't a serious issue among all races.
Infield Infidel said:
Call it the Hernandez Principle.
lambeau said:
lol..indeed. There's a lot of WTFs here, and as a non-parent I tend to defer to parents...i'm not in a position to judge. But..WTF...you need to physically discipline your 1-year old child? For what....?
Not at all, I'd guess.Infield Infidel said:
I'm more talking about the fact that they're misusing the concept of due process. In the courts, the players have the due process required by law. In league disciplinary actions, they should have the process required by the CBA and other governing documents. The two have nothing to do with each other, just like you have a freedom of speech right that protects you from government censorship but does not protect you from the non-state consequences of your words.
Using the legal system's process as a proxy for determining employment consequences is like like using a presidential election to name a new CEO.
I think that goes quite a bit too far in applying the specific to the general. But more generally, corporal punishment is more approved of by Republicans, Southerners, and Blacks than, say, democrats, north easterners, and whites.SemperFidelisSox said:
Infield Infidel said:
Man Bud Selig is laughing his ass off right now. Baseball has had a slew of wife beaters but since Selig doesn't play morality police at all (hired Torre to to do it) he isn't expected to get involved in any of this.
That is where Goodell screwed up. He could have had the food and beverage job...
Tony C said:
From my perspective - having a 16 month old - zero. Nothing. They aren't capable of understanding and the only thing physical discipline can do is hurt.
My 18 year old nephew who was recently arrested for doing 65 in a school zone at 2PM and could have run someone over? I applaud his dad for not smacking him upside the head and instead giving him the experience of an afternoon in the town holding cell but I might have given him a "Gibbs". But, again, he's 18 years old and has had all that time to develop and learn.
Jon KrawczynskiVerified account @APkrawczynski
An eye-opening development: Nike stores in Twin Cities have pulled all Adrian Peterson merch from shelves. Nike
Master TesfatsionVerified account @MasterStrib
All Day Foundation, Adrian Peterson's charity, issues statement on front page of site #Vikings
Front page says foundation shutting down pending. Tried to post a capture of the front page but
www.alldayfoundation.org has been down for the last 10 minutes.
An eye-opening development: Nike stores in Twin Cities have pulled all Adrian Peterson merch from shelves. Nike
Master TesfatsionVerified account @MasterStrib
All Day Foundation, Adrian Peterson's charity, issues statement on front page of site #Vikings
Front page says foundation shutting down pending. Tried to post a capture of the front page but
www.alldayfoundation.org has been down for the last 10 minutes.
ESPN’s Wilbon: American Behavior Today ‘Directly Traceable To The Lack Of Whippings With Switches’ [VIDEO]
http://dailycaller.com/2014/09/15/espns-wilbon-american-behavior-today-directly-traceable-to-the-lack-of-whippings-with-switches-video/#ixzz3DWPzmgU7
http://dailycaller.com/2014/09/15/espns-wilbon-american-behavior-today-directly-traceable-to-the-lack-of-whippings-with-switches-video/#ixzz3DWPzmgU7
The sweatshop operators and alcohol manufacturers don't approve of child abuse. How quaint. I find the corporate outrage sort of hollow.soxhop411 said:
soxfan121 said:
Effectiveness aside, I couldn't even imagine flicking a baby, toddler, infant or whatever they're called at that age with my pinkie finger. How is it fathomable to spank or strike a child that young? I understand and even sympathize with the fact that these men - focusing solely on the sport they play - have a different relationship to violence and pain than others, but still...
So sick of this trope. I read some commentator yesterday whining that "parents are too busy posting photos of their kids on Facebook to discipline them - creates a sense of entitlement." Yeah, what America's youth needs is more brutal beatings.Rusty13 said:
There are class fault lines that run through this as well. Very complicated mix.Myt1 said:
I am not at all surprised by Wilbon's take -- old school, Chicago -- though I'd be interested in his views as applied to these particular situations ( the AP child with band aids on his head -- Houston Fox photo -- appears to be no more than a toddler and barely that).
I'm acquainted with Wilbon and he comes across as about the nicest guy you'd ever hope to meet (unlike his side kick). Different strokes, I guess.
Rusty13 said:
Without trying to clog this thread with yet another debate about punishment, this shouldn't come as such a surprise. After the news broke last Friday, I had someone else tell me that this was how he was disciplined when he was a child. I am not justifying it but like any other issue, there is going to be some segment of the population that is for this sort of discipline for children. It will be difficult to convince some people that the decline in civility in our country (perceived or real) is not a direct result of the move away from corporal punishment in our society.
I'm starting to enjoy these mega-controversies. They have a way of culling the talking-head population.Rusty13 said:
It's also riveting television and radio. Watching Ray Lewis talk about it after the game last night was like watching a high wire act at the circus, without a net.
Wilbon does get into the supposed cultural element here, and I think that underlies a lot of comments from Lewis, Bush and Barkley, etc -- sure it is southern but it's also black southern, in particular (extending with migration into cities like Chicago, of course). I"m no fan of cultural relativism in general, but am certainly willing to give latitude on plenty on issues where a lot of the change has been recent and the "everyone has always done it" defense actually has some validity. There is real cognitive dissonance at play. But hitting a 4 year old (or a 1 year old, for god's sake) is where I think it's safe to say: gimme a f-ing break.
I read that first time through as 18 month old arrested; as someone else already said, spare the rod. Watch out for that spoiled brat 16 month old of yours, SF -- I can tell he or she is a juvenile delinquent in the making with your softie attitude.
soxfan121 said:
I read that first time through as 18 month old arrested; as someone else already said, spare the rod. Watch out for that spoiled brat 16 month old of yours, SF -- I can tell he or she is a juvenile delinquent in the making with your softie attitude.
soxfan121 said:
Ha, sure. Last time I did that was for some cop buddies who hated some jerk on the force who always used excessive force. Two rounds of treating some 250 pound schmuck like a punching bag till he quit.
Was he referring specifically to a 4-year old? If so he's an ass. I do agree that teenagers need a good ass whipping from time to time. It kept me straight when I was getting into trouble I know that much......and I was slapped across the face by my school principal in 3rd grade! I never misbehaved in school again.Rusty13 said:
Every senior generation thinks the younger generation is ruining the world in one way or another, so it's entirely unsurprising. A method different from the one they were taught and experienced almost always leads to this kind of verbiage. Uphill both ways in snow without shoes, etc, that God forsaken MTV, which has now become that God forsaken MTV doesn't show music videos anymore, etc.
I will say it's a bit strange, as Wilbon was bashing the Vikings handling of the situation. It was in a broad sense, but maybe he was just pandering or he was given parameters by the network.
I will say it's a bit strange, as Wilbon was bashing the Vikings handling of the situation. It was in a broad sense, but maybe he was just pandering or he was given parameters by the network.
HomeRunBaker said:
Really -- a slap on your face had that much effect? I remember getting paddled on the butt at school until they outlawed it when I was in 4th grade. I wish I could say it had a positive effect and am glad I can't say it was traumatizing. Mostly I remember pulling my pants back up and going back to the same mischief as before.
In retrospect, I don't object so much to be being paddled (though I agree it's stupid) as I do think it's a bit weird to have had boys (did this happen to girls, too? not really sure) drop trou for some middle aged principal. But the true sadists were the Catholic nuns who would pick us up by our ears -- god now that did hurt. I think I may have been traumatized by that, now that I think about it. Any of my sins, I lay them on Sister Mary Carmen's evil soul.
I think it was a couple things.....one, I was a wild child and two, the fact that I was raised to respect authority and to have that authoritative figure belt the shit out of my face was a wake up call. Everyone has or should have a moment when a lightbulb goes off for me that was it.Tony C said:
Here's how you know if someone thinks we should beat kids as a form of punishment:
a) They were beaten as a child.
b) They believe introspection is a valuable tool for understanding development or cognition.
The argument is always: "When I was beaten as a kid, it triggered some sort of developmental change that was important for my future development." Otherwise, it's essentially unjustifiable.
It's a bit sad for me, because:
a) I'm sorry you were beaten as a kid
b) Introspection is a really shitty way to learn about development and cognition
a) They were beaten as a child.
b) They believe introspection is a valuable tool for understanding development or cognition.
The argument is always: "When I was beaten as a kid, it triggered some sort of developmental change that was important for my future development." Otherwise, it's essentially unjustifiable.
It's a bit sad for me, because:
a) I'm sorry you were beaten as a kid
b) Introspection is a really shitty way to learn about development and cognition
Seriously? I've heard of plenty of people who turn against a liberal upbringing by getting much more conservative, including spanking, though they probably wouldn't describe it as whipping.
I think part of the problem here is the ad hominem (sp?) statements -- any spanking is equated to "whipping" or "beating." There's all sorts of differentiations and to conflate them all into scare words like whipping/beating is probably a bit intellectually lazy. I agree with the basic notion that we're a better world for having changed the normalcy with which kids used to be hit, but I think implicitly equating a spank on the rump to get a kid's attention to what AP did with a switch will likely just get hackles raised. And, worse, it lessens the crime AP seems to have committed as if it's just spanking. No: he beat up his kid, which is sick. Light spanking may be something I'm against, but plenty of people do it with no sadism or pleasure, I assume (and, yes, I assume that someone like AP is getting some level of sadism out against a defenseless kid) and don't deserve to be equated to an abuser.
I think part of the problem here is the ad hominem (sp?) statements -- any spanking is equated to "whipping" or "beating." There's all sorts of differentiations and to conflate them all into scare words like whipping/beating is probably a bit intellectually lazy. I agree with the basic notion that we're a better world for having changed the normalcy with which kids used to be hit, but I think implicitly equating a spank on the rump to get a kid's attention to what AP did with a switch will likely just get hackles raised. And, worse, it lessens the crime AP seems to have committed as if it's just spanking. No: he beat up his kid, which is sick. Light spanking may be something I'm against, but plenty of people do it with no sadism or pleasure, I assume (and, yes, I assume that someone like AP is getting some level of sadism out against a defenseless kid) and don't deserve to be equated to an abuser.
Ed Hillel said:
This is true, but I'll go further, they do it without evidence. Kids these days are so poorly behaved because of a lack of corporal punishment? Where's the evidence? Oh yeah, there is none. Violent crimes by teens in 2011 were at there lowest rates since 1980 (source). It's a "Get off my lawn!"