Well, Pedroia would be one anyway. Since Nomar is already being discussed, would you consider Nomar a World Champion? I know he got a ring but I don't.
edit: I remember him sulking on the bench away from the rest of the team.
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Well, Pedroia would be one anyway. Since Nomar is already being discussed, would you consider Nomar a World Champion? I know he got a ring but I don't.
edit: I remember him sulking on the bench away from the rest of the team.
Just because you say it doesn't make it true. Absent some sort of tragic accident ending a player's life or career, I don't see anybody else getting into the HOF with 1500 games played, whether he's a 2B, SS, or DH.
I'm not disagreeing that he may not get in. He probably won't. That's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying one player's stat has nothing to do with another player when they don't play the same position. Just because YOU say it doesn't make it true either. I don't understand what is so hard to grasp about the concept.
Then how do they decide on Edgar and Baines when there were no DH's in the HOF? I really doubt its 100% a comparison of players who played the same position. Otherwise, there would be far more DH and RP in the HOF.
And I'm saying the number of games played regardless of position has everything to do with whether a player will get consideration for the hall. I don't know what's so hard to grasp about that concept.
This is true and I think it's a major reason why it took so long for a DH to get into the HoF, beyond the stigma and the fact that it's a newer position. I would think they had to compare the raw numbers of those players to the raw numbers of the best offensive players of their era and all-time and went from there. I'm not sure how else you'd do it.
But that was not your original point. Your original point was the Nomar was the all-time OPS leader at SS and he didn't get in, so Pedroia won't get in. That's what I was arguing against. You want to cite games played? Fine, that does make more sense. But Nomar's career OPS, which I understand may have been compiled over more games played than Pedroia, has nothing to do with Dustin Pedroia's candidacy for the Hall of Fame. The elite level of play over a period of time qualifier, yes, that is the bigger deal. I get the point you are making but you took a circuitous route to making it.
Locks: Verlander, Kershaw, Cabrera, Pujols, Trout
Very good chance: Scherzer
Young guys on the way: Betts, Altuve, Yelich, Bellinger, Harper
Has a shot: Sabathia, Greinke, Molina, Cano, Strasburg
Close but no cigar (i.e., very good players who will get some votes): King Felix, Pedroia, Wainwright
Very good chance: Scherzer
Young guys on the way: Betts, Altuve, Yelich, Bellinger, Harper
Has a shot: Sabathia, Greinke, Molina, Cano, Strasburg
Close but no cigar (i.e., very good players who will get some votes): King Felix, Pedroia, Wainwright
It actually was my original point. Sorry I didn't sufficiently spell it out for you, but here it is:
- Nomar was a better player by rate stats relative to his peers (both positionally, and era) than Pedroia was to his
- Nomar didn't sniff the Hall of Fame because he didn't play long enough
- For the very same reason, Pedroia has even less a chance of sniffing the Hall of Fame.
That "Hall Of Fame" vs. "Hall Of Stats" argument will, at some point, provide a divisive HOF candidate. I'm thinking of Nick Markakis and Elvis Andrus - two guys who have a reasonable shot to clear that magic 3,000 hit mark but really have accomplished little else. Does just that one stat get them in the HOF?
This is a much better explanation than your original one-sentence post on the matter. Thank you.
This argument ignores defense, but voters won't. Pedroia was an elite defender, by both numbers and popular perception; Garciaparra was not. Granted that differences in WAR based on defense, the least reliable of its components, need to be used cautiously--especially when comparing across different generations--this in a nutshell is the reason why Pedroia has more WAR than Garciaparra, by both BBref and FG's versions, despite playing roughly the same amount of time at an easier position.
That said, I agree that neither guy will make the Hall. But I think Pedroia will get more votes, and deservedly so.
I doubt it. And FWIW Nomar absolutely was an elite defender when he was young. The WAR difference is both negligible, and as you correctly point out based on defensive metrics that many voters (even among those that consider WAR discount). It’s even more negligible when you look at WAR/PA.
Nomar was simply an elite player for longer than Pedey was. Nomar had 6 seasons of at least 6 WAR; Pedey had 3. Nomar was a 6-time all-star, Pedey 4.
What about Rice in '75, had the Sox won? He played 144 regular season games with a 128 OPS+, but didn't play in the postseason.
I wasn't alive but I would say yes because he played a big part of their success and wasn't traded away.
Harper is not getting in. He’s not that good. Molina is a stone cold lock. He’ll get in on his second or third try, ala Fisk.
He's only 26 and already has 35 career war, he has tons of time to rack up stats even if he's not the superstar that it looked like he be at one point. Molina is 11 years older and only has 54.