Aaron Hernandez charged with 1st degree murder; released by Patriots

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johnmd20

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smastroyin said:
Why would he be using two hands to make two individual one handed gang signs?  This seems really dumb, and it's probably closer to the truth that in anything he was mixing the bloods and crips hand signs to be funny, since other than the thumb/forefinger he is clearly making a crips sign.  Maybe he is really the criminal master of the the new gang the Blips, and he was killing Lloyd before he could get the trademark because the guys in the club he was talking to were IP attorneys.
 
Tremendously funny, it needed to be noted. Blips. That's some quality stuff Smas.
 

bigsid05

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I am still in shock at how ridiculous this whole situation is. We were rooting for this guy to catch TD passes, thinking he was just a bumbling pothead, and now he's allegedly a murderous criminal mastermind. 
 
And, dear god, do the Pats need some receiving help now.
 

OurOfState

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Jun 21, 2013
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PaulinMyrBch said:
Televised hearing? In the jurisdiction where the case is likely to be tried?  Nice job judge, say hello to the appellate process.  Dumb. Ass.
 
 
 
Here is the judge giving her reasons for the denial of bail.
 
http://www.tmz.com/2013/06/27/aaron-hernandez-bail-review-murder-odin-lloyd-court/
 
Note when she says ".....and if that's true, and based upon the presentation it seems to be" with respect to the circumstances of the incident put forward by the prosecution. Are judges supposed to say things like?
 

throwaway

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Jun 27, 2013
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It does seem like he was associated with some shady characters. From today's report, the police arrested a man named Carlos Ortiz in Bristol CT:
 
http://www.inquisitr.com/818450/aaron-hernandez-fugitive-carlos-ortiz-also-arrested-in-odin-lloyd-murder-case/
 
This appears to be him as he is from Bristol and posts pictures of AH on his profile:
 
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004778915346
 
He's a member of the group Doo Wop on Facebook which appears to include people from the Bristol area.
 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/229100577224412/
 
Their group page includes no shortage of gang signs, for example:
 
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.230678433733293&type=1
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4290774620640&set=oa.230678433733293&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4290771940573&set=oa.230678433733293&type=1&theater
 
That doesn't mean that AH was in a gang, but he seems to associate with people who may be.
 

Leather

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OurOfState said:
Here is the judge giving her reasons for the denial of bail.
 
http://www.tmz.com/2013/06/27/aaron-hernandez-bail-review-murder-odin-lloyd-court/
 
Note when she says ".....and if that's true, and based upon the presentation it seems to be" with respect to the circumstances of the incident put forward by the prosecution. Are judges supposed to say things like?
 
Yea, I thought that was fishy but assumed people were just misquoting or quoting second hand sources.
 
If a judge said something like that in a trial, it would be grounds for a new trial.  Not sure what happens if its said in a preliminary hearing. 
 

Koufax

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In denying bail, the judge ought to damn well explain herself.  No jury is hearing this, there is nothing to be alarmed about.
 

Bergs

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drleather2001 said:
Yea, I thought that was fishy but assumed people were just misquoting or quoting second hand sources.
 
If a judge said something like that in a trial, it would be grounds for a new trial.  Not sure what happens if its said in a preliminary hearing. 
 
The judge at the bail hearing won't actually hear the case though, right?
 

OurOfState

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CaptainLaddie said:
A full account of the evidence against Hernandez.  I didn't put this together, found on Reddit -- http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/1h6euh/full_account_of_the_evidence_against_hernandez/
 
It's just damn impressive and too good not to share here.
 
The charges:
  •     Murder
  •     Carrying a firearm without a license
  •     Possession of a large capacity firearm x2
  •     Possession of a firearm without and FID card x2
The evidence:
  •     Victim found 1/2 mile from Hernandez's home w/ numerous gunshot wounds
  •     5 .45 caliber shells found at the scene, fired from a semi-auto weapon, based on the locations and distance between them.
  •     Victim was not robbed, had wallet, keys and phone.
  •     Keys were to a rental car, registered to Hernandez.
  •     Phone contained text messages between the victim and Hernandez, within hours of the murder.
  •     Victim's sister said her brother left at 2:30 AM in a silver Nissan Altima with three people inside
  •     Hernandez had been renting a Silver Nissan Altima
  •     Hernandez had known the victim for about a year, The victims girlfriend is the sister of Hernadez's Fiance
  •     The police went to question Hernandez, Who didn't answer the door. a squad car was placed outside. Eventually Hernandez came out, and told the cops he knew they were they and that he had been watching them on his surveillance system
  •     A warrant was issued to seize surveillance footage from Hernandez's home.
  •     hernandez had recently installed a 14 camera system with cameras inside and out.
  •     Upon reviewing the footage, they noticed that the first 6-8 hours of footage after the time of the murder was missing.
  •     at 9:02 PM Hernandez texted a friend from out of state "please make it back"
  •     9:05 he texted the victim, indicating he wanted to come by and get together with him
  •     9:35 he texted the same out of state friend "get your ass up here" then at 10:23 "hurry your ass up"
  •     The man he was texting and one other showed up at hernandez's home, seen on surveillance footage
  •     Shortly after they arrive, Hernandez is seen with a firearm in his home on the surveillance system says "he is upset that he can't trust anyone anymore"
  •     the three left Hernandez's home at 1:12 AM in the silver Nissan Altima, captured on survelliance, phone records and cell tower
  •     the went from Hernadez's home to route 95, headed south towards (? couldn't understand) they turned around and went north. the cell phone tower tracked their movement to a gas station off route 128
  •     at 2:10AM Hernandez bought Gas, Bubbalicious blue cotton candy gum, and black and milds which are used for smoking mariujana (the prosecutor seems to be mistaken about common blunt cigars but oh well)
  •     Next they went to the victims home, at 2:32 am Hernandez sent a text "we're here" to the victim, this is when the victims sister saw him leave with them, Hernandez was driving
  •     They drove back to North Attleboro, this is corroborated by some random surveillance cameras and route was determined by time and distance traveled.
  •     during the ride, Hernandez had a conversation with the victim indicating he was upset with him. The two had gone to a club together friday night.
  •     he said some things happened that night and he wasn't sure if he could trust the victim, one of them was that the victim had spoken to some people He had troubles with, and he was mad about it.
  •     At 3:07 AM the victim sent a text to his sister "did you see who I am with" no response he texted again at 3:11 AM "Hello?"
  •     at 3:19 am his sister replied "who?" at 3:22 the victim texted back "NFL" then 1 minute later "Just so you know"
  •     at the time of these texts, the car is seen on surveillance cameras in the area of the murder site/Hernandez's home
  •     Surveillance cameras show the vehicle driving down the road to the murder site at 3:23 AM
  •     between 3:23 and 3:27 am workers nearby hear multiple gunshots
  •     cameras pick up the vehicle along the route between the murder site and Hernandez's home at 3:27 and 3:28 AM.
  •     Hernandez's own Surveillance picks sees him arriving back home at 3:29 AM
  •     Police confirm it is only a 2 minute drive.
  •     autopsy found that all evidence was consistent with the victim being murdered where he was found. In other words, he wasn't dumped. Also consistent Time of death to the time the car was there.
  •     two through and through wounds to the victim's chest. Police returned to the scene and dug where the victim was, they found the bullets, indicating the victim was on the ground when he was shot. Both bullets were .45 caliber, consistent with the casings found. All fired from the same unknown gun
  •     at 3:30 AM Hernandez is seen with his companions in his driveway, one of whom has a gun.
  •     they go inside. Surveillance shows Hernandez walking around with a gun in his hand.
  •     all three go to the basement. Surveillance cameras shut off
  •     later that day, 5:30 PM Hernandez and his companions return the Nissan Altima to the rental agency, Hernandez offers the attendant Blue Bubbalicious.
  •     one of the side mirrors is broken on the car, footage of the vehicle earlier in the night suggest it wasn't broken when he left Boston, he tells the rental agency he didn't even notice it. The evidence being that it was broken sometime between leaving Boston and arriving back at home.
  •     He rents another car and returns home, companions leave.
  •     At the rental agency, a piece of bubbalicious and a shell casing were found, attendant threw them away. When questioned, she told investigators about it, they found it in the dumpster, Shell casing matched to the casings found at the scene.
  •     Tire impressions at the murder scene right next to the body were consistent with a front wheel drive vehicle (altima is FWD)
  •     Investigators checked out the rental car. Tire treads matched those at the crime scene. Dirt found on the car also matched the crime scene
  •     They found a .22 nearby in a search of everywhere between Hernandez's home and the murder site. Hernandez a month prior had been involved an altercation in providence Rhode island. He had someone with him who was seen to place a gun under a car. This man matches the description of one of his companions on the night of the murder.
  •     The gun under the car in Providence was traced to a florida gunstore. The 22 found between Hernandez's home and the murder site was from the same store.
  •     further search warrant of Hernandez's home ordered. They found 22 ammo, but no 22 gun. They also found a large capacity 7.62 hungarian semi auto rifle, and a fully loaded 32 round magazine . Hernandez's prints on it, he doesn't have the correct paperwork to own it.
  •     Not recovered was the Black semi auto handgun seen in Hernandez's hand before and after the murder. the second individuals gun not found either.
  •     Hernandez's girlfriend was spoken to by police, she was cooperating until a call from hernandez telling her not to. She then stopped talking.
  •     the victim had defensive wounds and seemed to attempt to stop the bullets with his arms.
 
Surely these text messages have been 'translated'; they seem a bit too literate. I find it hard to imagine Hernandez fiddling around on his phone looking for the apostrophe when he's got other things on his mind.
 

MuellerMen

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drleather2001 said:
Yea, I thought that was fishy but assumed people were just misquoting or quoting second hand sources.
 
If a judge said something like that in a trial, it would be grounds for a new trial.  Not sure what happens if its said in a preliminary hearing. 
 
This where I'm at.  I'm 99.9% sure that Aaron Hernandez pulled the trigger and is responsible for murdering a man whom he called a good friend.  And, when I read the Reddit post that CaptainLaddie summarized, I'm astonished that anyone (read: his attorney) can claim otherwise.  Yet . . . that 0.01% doubt rests in the judicial system - and all the potential flaws it's riddled with. I think it's more likely than not that the prosecution in O.J.'s case rendered a long list of damning evidence as impressive as what's summarised on the Reddit list.  We all know how the the OJ trial turned out.  At an arraignment, clearly the prosecution has the advantage of surprise and spotlight.  The defense has hardly begun its work.  In the court, the scales are more balanced.  I hate even thinking this, but unless Hernandez's defense in this case turns out to be every bit as inept as the prosecution in OJ's case - or the judge does something equally stupid  - Hernandez's legal guilt is no slam dunk.  
 

cromulence

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OurOfState said:
Surely these text messages have been 'translated'; they seem a bit too literate. I find it hard to imagine Hernandez fiddling around on his phone looking for the apostrophe when he's got other things on his mind.
 
Autocorrect.
 

Bob420

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They need to cross check all unsolved drive by type murders with Hernandez' car rental patterns.
 

bougrj1

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MuellerMen said:
This where I'm at.  I'm 99.9% sure that Aaron Hernandez pulled the trigger and is responsible for murdering a man whom he called a good friend.  And, when I read the Reddit post that CaptainLaddie summarized, I'm astonished that anyone (read: his attorney) can claim otherwise.  Yet . . . that 0.01% doubt rests in the judicial system - and all the potential flaws it's riddled with. I think it's more likely than not that the prosecution in O.J.'s case rendered a long list of damning evidence as impressive as what's summarised on the Reddit list.  We all know how the the OJ trial turned out.  At an arraignment, clearly the prosecution has the advantage of surprise and spotlight.  The defense has hardly begun its work.  In the court, the scales are more balanced.  I hate even thinking this, but unless Hernandez's defense in this case turns out to be every bit as inept as the prosecution in OJ's case - or the judge does something equally stupid  - Hernandez's legal guilt is no slam dunk.  
 
True - but it's "reasonable doubt".  I would argue that .01% is not reasonable given the list of evidence.  The OJ case is a different can of worms given how ignorant the average person was about DNA evidence at the time.  If that trial happens now there's no way he's not convicted.
 

Bergs

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bougrj1 said:
True - but it's "reasonable doubt".  I would argue that .01% is not reasonable given the list of evidence.  The OJ case is a different can of worms given how ignorant the average person was about DNA evidence at the time.  If that trial happens now there's no way he's not convicted.
 
Or if the prosecution was anything better than blindingly incompetent. "Let's spend the first 2 days of a celebrity murder trial talking about a barking dog!!!"...OJ should still be sending Marcia Clark Christmas cards for how badly she fucked that trial up. My father was an attorney and we watched a lot of that trial together...he was constantly cracking up about how any DA he'd ever known could have tried that case in 2 days and secured a conviction..
 

Ralphwiggum

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MuellerMen said:
This where I'm at.  I'm 99.9% sure that Aaron Hernandez pulled the trigger and is responsible for murdering a man whom he called a good friend.  And, when I read the Reddit post that CaptainLaddie summarized, I'm astonished that anyone (read: his attorney) can claim otherwise.  Yet . . . that 0.01% doubt rests in the judicial system - and all the potential flaws it's riddled with. I think it's more likely than not that the prosecution in O.J.'s case rendered a long list of damning evidence as impressive as what's summarised on the Reddit list.  We all know how the the OJ trial turned out.  At an arraignment, clearly the prosecution has the advantage of surprise and spotlight.  The defense has hardly begun its work.  In the court, the scales are more balanced.  I hate even thinking this, but unless Hernandez's defense in this case turns out to be every bit as inept as the prosecution in OJ's case - or the judge does something equally stupid  - Hernandez's legal guilt is no slam dunk.  
 
The system may not be perfect but I think (I hope) everyone appreciates why we don't convict people of murder based solely on what the police say happened at an arraignment hearing.  Right now things look spectacularly bad for Hernandez.  But right now all we know is what the police have told us, and those facts have been presented to us so as to support the motion to deny him bail.
 
Please don't take this post as a defense for Hernandez, it certainly looks like he's a murdering scumbag and I am glad he's in a jail cell right now thinking about what he did.  And if I were a betting man I'd say he's going away for life and he'll deserve it.  I just think we can probably wait until he's acquitted before we start talking about the flaws in the system.  If it is a small-dunk case then the prosecution should have no issues slam dunking it.
 

Bergs

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Whitlock chimes in with a mindfuckingly stupid piece of shit article that I was stupid enough to click on.
 
The Patriots responded Wednesday like an organization that knew 10 months ago Aaron Hernandez was the wrong guy to give $40 million.
 
Yes, dumbfuck. That makes much more sense than "the Patriots knew the nature of the evidence a few days earlier than we did and acted accordingly." Fucking asshole.
 

rembrat

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With AH in jail, and Carlos Ortiz picked up today, can we assume the 3rd party is the one who flipped and will his identity remain unknown for the time being?
 

bsj

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Did I see correctly that Hernandez is now a suspect in an unsolved murder in Boston a few months ago?

EDIT- I see this was tweeted a while ago...probably discussed upthread....
 

bosoxsue

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Bob420 said:
They need to cross check all unsolved drive by type murders with Hernandez' car rental patterns.
 
Has anyone addressed why he rented all of these darned cars?  I'd think that if you did a crime and used your own car, it would be easier to get rid of the forensics trail by making it disappear somehow.
 

smastroyin

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I wish the guys making vague references to the bail hearing would explain their reasoning.
 
Paul I guess you are saying that the judge has tainted the jury pool or something since she's clearly not going to be the trial judge.  What is the other harm?
 
PKB I guess you are saying that the reason you ask for this hearing is so that you get more details of the prosecutions case?
 
It would be better if we didn't have to guess though.
 

johnmd20

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bsj said:
Did I see correctly that Hernandez is now a suspect in an unsolved murder in Boston a few months ago?

EDIT- I see this was tweeted a while ago...probably discussed upthread....
 
It was, old news.
 

Orange Juice

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smastroyin said:
Why would he be using two hands to make two individual one handed gang signs?  This seems really dumb, and it's probably closer to the truth that in anything he was mixing the bloods and crips hand signs to be funny, since other than the thumb/forefinger he is clearly making a crips sign.  Maybe he is really the criminal master of the the new gang the Blips, and he was killing Lloyd before he could get the trademark because the guys in the club he was talking to were IP attorneys.
 
The sign he is making is a common blood sign because of the thumb/forefinger part, taking that away makes it a crip sign which is kind of the point. The reason they are similar is that the bloods simply adapted it to there own use as a way to claim it as their own which in turn is a way to show disrespect towards the crips. The reason he is not doing the two handed sign is probably because it is a little passe (that is speculation on my part). Like I said, it is a very common sign used to communicate you are blood affiliated.
 
It could be that he just saw his favorite rapper doing it and he is emulating it, but he is dressed in all red and from the pictures someone else posted of people he supposedly was friends with there seems to be a lot of people wearing red and throwing up the same 'b' sign.
 
 
 
DrewDawg said:
I love that you've been lurking for more than a year and your first post is on gang signs and making sure we get them right.
 
You're kinda like SoSH's gang ombudsman.
 
Just waiting for my time to shine. Hoping to make it to the main board and bring this type of in depth analysis on baseball gang signs and signals.....
 

riboflav

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That interview he did with T&R last August sounds like a man trying to convince himself to start making good decisions.
 

BoredViewer

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And I thought the uptick in violent crime in Boston was related to the economy tanking...  
 
How far will this this thread unravel?  Motive in the double homicide?
 

Koufax

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The defense attorney must be counting his money now.  This will be a pisser of a case to defend.
 

bostonbeerbelly

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BoredViewer said:
And I thought the uptick in violent crime in Boston was related to the economy tanking...  
 
How far will this this thread unravel?  Motive in the double homicide?
 
They were running their mouth about a prior murder?
 

Koufax

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They were trying to muscle in on AH's football earnings?
 

MarcSullivaFan

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so there was a serial murderer playing in the NFL. That's hard to wrap one's mind around.



I don't think the crimes alleged suggest a serial killer, as that term is commonly used. More like a gangbanger.

But I can't say that I would be shocked if it eventually becomes clear that he killed for shits and giggles or because it gave him a funny feeling in his shorts. We have now entered the Hernandez Zone. I wonder if Simmons will incorporate that into his lexicon.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Its worth noting that there were people in the crowd outside the hearing today wearing Hernandez jerseys.  And I don't think all of them were Enterprise employees.
 

Average Reds

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MuellerMen said:
This where I'm at.  I'm 99.9% sure that Aaron Hernandez pulled the trigger and is responsible for murdering a man whom he called a good friend.  And, when I read the Reddit post that CaptainLaddie summarized, I'm astonished that anyone (read: his attorney) can claim otherwise.  Yet . . . that 0.01% doubt rests in the judicial system - and all the potential flaws it's riddled with. I think it's more likely than not that the prosecution in O.J.'s case rendered a long list of damning evidence as impressive as what's summarised on the Reddit list.  We all know how the the OJ trial turned out.  At an arraignment, clearly the prosecution has the advantage of surprise and spotlight.  The defense has hardly begun its work.  In the court, the scales are more balanced.  I hate even thinking this, but unless Hernandez's defense in this case turns out to be every bit as inept as the prosecution in OJ's case - or the judge does something equally stupid  - Hernandez's legal guilt is no slam dunk.  
 
Just stop.
 

mauf

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Koufax said:
The defense attorney must be counting his money now.  This will be a pisser of a case to defend.
 
I don't think Fee is going to defend AH at trial. He's an investigations guy and was the right man for the job up to now, but I expect he'll step aside in favor of someone who has actually defended a bunch of murder cases.
 

Rovin Romine

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Koufax said:
The defense attorney must be counting his money now.  This will be a pisser of a case to defend.
 
That's the thing with being very rich and getting hit with a life felony - how much of your money do you spend to try and get yourself out of trouble?  Pretty much all of it.  Actually a first rate defense for a case like this can easily run into the multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars - beyond the usual expenses of litigation, there are many potential experts you could hire to help with any/all aspects of the case if you can afford it.  And if you've got millions, why not get a second and third opinion on any DNA evidence that turns up, etc.
 

BoredViewer

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From such reliable places as the TMZ comments section and 5-year-old results on a Google search... it seems like the group he's associated with is "Doo Wop" and it runs out of a project in Bristol, CT.  Matches that FB group and maybe that explains the mishmash of signs and colors?
 

mauf

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Rovin Romine said:
That's the thing with being very rich and getting hit with a life felony - how much of your money do you spend to try and get yourself out of trouble?  Pretty much all of it.  Actually a first rate defense for a case like this can easily run into the multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars - beyond the usual expenses of litigation, there are many potential experts you could hire to help with any/all aspects of the case if you can afford it.  And if you've got millions, why not get a second and third opinion on any DNA evidence that turns up, etc.
 
That's how O.J. got off.
 
Iirc, he spent something like $600k on investigators. That's how he found that filmmaker in North Carolina who had Mark Fuhrman on tape using the n-word. (We don't exactly know why that jury voted as it did, but I have to believe that was part of it.) The high-priced lawyers were nice -- Barry Scheck, in particular, did a great job muddying the waters on the DNA evidence -- but it was the investigators who won that case.
 

MarcSullivaFan

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The defense attorney must be counting his money now. This will be a pisser of a case to defend.


I don't think Fee is going to defend AH at trial. He's an investigations guy and was the right man for the job up to now, but I expect he'll step aside in favor of someone who has actually defended a bunch of murder cases.

Isn't Jamie Sultan already taking over?
 

Cesar Crespo

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Tsarnev Brothers 4, Aaron Hernandez 3.
 
C'mon Aaron, go for two!!!!
Wait for the details. Would it shock anyone if theres 2 more? That Florida case could easily be one more.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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smastroyin said:
I wish the guys making vague references to the bail hearing would explain their reasoning.
 
Paul I guess you are saying that the judge has tainted the jury pool or something since she's clearly not going to be the trial judge.  What is the other harm?
 
PKB I guess you are saying that the reason you ask for this hearing is so that you get more details of the prosecutions case?
 
It would be better if we didn't have to guess though.
I'm at a ballgame and on my phone. On a normal case it's a there's nothing to see here. But a judge giving that opinion on a case this public at a televised bail hearing with potential jurors watching. Not good. Judge will get a letter from the Judicial standards folks and that statement will be in the first paragraph of the appeal. Just idiotic to comment publicly like that. Very, very idiotic.

(I haven't read most of the last two hours of this thread)
 
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