A thread about trying to build a home computer that will work for gaming for my sons as well as for

[CoRP]

I ran "home 'puter" through the SoxHop thread name generator.
 
Ok, so thanks to Couperin here's what I have so far:
 
Antec GX500 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case    $50 -  $5 promo code - $15 rebate = $30
Canon COLOR MF 8280Cw multifunction -$180 with free ship
Samsung 250GB SSD for $129
 
 
 

 

[Harry Hooper]

Check this old thread:
 
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/81613-build-your-own-desktop/

 

[CoRP]

Yeah, but this one is about ME!

 

[AlNipper49]

Post your pcpartpicker link....

 

[LogansDad]

Post your pcpartpicker link....

Holy shit, I had no idea this existed.  My weekend is likely shot now.....

 

[CoRP]

It's awesome. My home computer costs $11,992.59 right now because of that site.

 

[SumnerH]

Just to spit into the wind one more time:

I'm a professional computer programmer who has tons of crazy home DVR and automation stuff going on. I haven't spent more than $500 on a new computer since the year 2000 (I got a $500-ish desktop then, a laptop for about $450 in 2004, my current laptop for a similar amount around 2009, and a new desktop for about $550 last year).

They're almost all overpowered for any real business/programming needs. If you aren't gaming, almost any low-end off the shelf machine (desktop or modern laptop) at Best Buy will be more than powerful enough, even if you have significant business needs, and you'll be way happier with that $500 machine and $500 worth of fun peripherals (Sonos home automation or Harmony remotes or whatever) than you would be wasting money getting a $1000 computer with a discrete graphics and sound card that you will quite literally never actually use. Hell, the $400 shitbox with a sweet huge monitor is a much better use of funds for most people than the $700 machine with a crappy $300 monitor.

If you need big gaming power at home then that's a whole other story--you can spend arbitrarily much on a gaming machine. But if you're not into cutting-edge gaming, most of what Couperin and people are advocating here is far, far more expensive than what you'll want for a home machine. And that home machine probably does more than most non-gamers could even dream of. Spend the extra on cool peripherals (speakers, controllers, Harmony remote, whatever), don't overspend on the computer itself when that's basically just money you're flushing down the toilet never to see any return on.

Now, an SSD is definitely worth the money, whether you're a gamer or casual home office user. That's an absolute no-brainer.

EDIT: Basically, unless you're a gamer you should get yourself a pretty cheap commodity machine but with an SSD, and spend the rest of your budget on a decent monitor, speakers, home automation crap, and other shit. Dumping that money into the computer itself is a stupid waste that you'll be repeating shortly and won't get a real benefit out of in the meantime.

 

[cgori]

Now, an SSD is definitely worth the money, whether you're a gamer or casual home office user. That's an absolute no-brainer.

 
I have a stupidly overpriced self-built machine (~1100) that I bought about 3 months ago.  The SSD (first one I have had) is absolutely the best part of it, just do it.  Everything else is pretty much secondary.

 

[CoRP]

I hear you, Sumner. So far all I have is the SSD and the case.  I do want to be able to run 4K video on this thing so I'll be paying up for at least one of the monitors.  All-in right now (without monitors) my build will probably cost closer to $1200 (and it will be used for gaming). The SSD is $130 on it's own (250GB) and I need a 2TB drive just more my music and movies. Kind of tough to stick to $500 even for a non-gaming rig with those two items on the list.  I think $600-$700 is more realistic.
 
I bought a Sonos Playbar for the new TV and a Philips Hue starter set so I'll have some cool toys. I'm looking forward to hearing about people's home automation systems in the other thread.

 

[LogansDad]

Yeah, my rig right now is a gaming rig that I spent about $1200 back in January of 2010.  It still runs everything I want, but it is getting a little bit hotter with every game that comes out.  I will be building my new one around November, and I am planning on spending about the same amount, though I will likely go Intel this time as opposed to AMD, so that might push it up a little.  The fact that this one has lasted me so long is pretty awesome, but I love the feeling of putting together a new PC and firing it up for the first time (this will be the 4th one I have built).  I am really looking forward to playing around with the PC Part Picker.
 
And yes, I will definitely be going SSD.  A few years ago I was actually considering going with a sealed, oil-cooled system.... but it seems like such a pain to replace anything that goes bad.  I will likely look into water cooled this time, though, and it will be my first time dealing with that so any input is appreciated.

 

[CoRP]

I'm thinking about water-cooled, too...mostly because it's...well...cool.  And also because I'm thinking about getting this 34” Class 21:9 UltraWide™ WQHD IPS Monitor or maybe two of these Asus PB287Q. 28"

 

[CoRP]

Ok, so I've been talked out of water cooling but I will not be deterred from buying a couple of these GTX 780 TI's.
 

 
How's this, Sumner?  Overkill?  Less than $4,000....

 

[LogansDad]

Where do you guys recommend going to research water cooling? 
 
Also,  I put this together real quick today, though I am not planning on actually building until November, and I also need to add fans:


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($227.97 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H75 54.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($69.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Pro3 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($103.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($169.99 @ Micro Center)
Storage: A-Data Premier Pro SP900 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($119.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Hitachi Ultrastar 7K3000 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($96.49 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card ($159.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Cooler Master CM 690 II (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 660W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($138.98 @ OutletPC)
Optical Drive: Pioneer BDR-208DBK Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($69.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1337.34
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

 

[Couperin47]

Why are you interested in water cooling ? What do you hope to gain ? Better cooling ? Quieter ? Water cooling adds considerable complexity and, in most cases,  gains you nothing.  Some very high end water cooling solutions ARE better, but of no interest unless you are trying for an extreme overclock. Almost none of the water solutions are quieter. The low end Corsair in your build does neither.
 
A Z77 chipset mb is OK, but it's 3 yr old technology and the price isn't a bargain...why are your building around a 2 generation old chipset ?
 
I will assume you have picked the Ivy Bridge i5 "k" processor because it is often easier to overclock than the later Haswell and the performance differences are not too great, esp since you're using a separate video card. If you're planning to OC, then it will pay to spend a few bucks more and get the 16 Gig of ram as 2x8 gig sticks, ALL mb OC better when only 2 of the 4 memory slots are utilized.
 
My only other comment is the prices for some of this stuff are not even good, much can be had for better prices, even before sales...and while the Platinum Seasonic is beyond reproach, it's really expensive overkill for this build, hell it's overkill for a $500 video card build.

 

[LogansDad]

Yeah that was really just a 10 minute throw together because I think the PC Parts Picker is fun, and that was reasonably close to my price range.  That and I accidentally came up with a price of $1337, which I thought was funny.
 
To be honest, I haven't thought about computer parts for 5 years, since I built my last one, so it is going to take me some time to get to something I am happy with that I can afford.  Thanks for the input on water cooling... I was definitely thinking about it because I thought it was quieter, but if that isn't the case without paying a ton of money then I can probably shelve the idea.  I am not planning on overclocking or anything, just looking to put something together that will run anything I want for the next 3-5 years like the one I have now.  I'm honestly on the fence about whether I want to plan the build now and pick up parts one by one as they go on sale, or wait until my annual bonus in November and just do everything at once.
 
Again, thanks for the advice!

 

[Couperin47]

Yeah that was really just a 10 minute throw together because I think the PC Parts Picker is fun, and that was reasonably close to my price range.  That and I accidentally came up with a price of $1337, which I thought was funny.
 
To be honest, I haven't thought about computer parts for 5 years, since I built my last one, so it is going to take me some time to get to something I am happy with that I can afford.  Thanks for the input on water cooling... I was definitely thinking about it because I thought it was quieter, but if that isn't the case without paying a ton of money then I can probably shelve the idea.  I am not planning on overclocking or anything, just looking to put something together that will run anything I want for the next 3-5 years like the one I have now.  I'm honestly on the fence about whether I want to plan the build now and pick up parts one by one as they go on sale, or wait until my annual bonus in November and just do everything at once.
 
Again, thanks for the advice!

 
Currently things evolve very slowly. It's reasonable to expect a decent mid-range box to still be useful 4-5 years from now. Intel isn't being pushed at all by AMD, in fact it's not even a secret anymore that Intel needs to keep AMD alive, otherwise they have incredible antitrust/monopoly issues worldwide, so Intel has been dribbling out advancements. Once upon a time I hoped we would get much faster performance increases: Computers have had no real 'killer app" to spur such development in over a decade. I hoped that real voice recognition, that could largely eliminate the keyboard, would be the spur.  Now I'm guessing if/when that arrives it's more likely to be via a cloud link and not local processing power.   Odds are a top end i5 variant box built today will have around 65% of the performance of a comparable build 4 years from now... in short will still be an acceptable performer.

 

[AlNipper49]

Ok, so I've been talked out of water cooling but I will not be deterred from buying a couple of these GTX 780 TI's.
 

 
How's this, Sumner?  Overkill?  Less than $4,000....

 
For 4 grand I'd probably be spending $2600 of it on kick-ass monitors/graphics/sound.  Like I'd consider 3x40" 4k TVs or something fun.  Unless you're a big boy gamer you're not going to need those video cards SLId.  Throw in a nice 7.2 sound system.

 

[CoRP]

What kick ass monitor do you suggest?

 

[Couperin47]

Please keep in mind some very common business and conventional apps (due to really antique coding) have big issues with very high definition displays. There's a shitload of interface that's hard coded and fails when scaled onto these sorts of monitors... we won't even start on games...
 
Here's one article about the issue: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/LivingAHighDPIDesktopLifestyleCanBePainful.aspx
 
for example, as it stands now, you can forget about even trying to use Chrome as your browser on any really hi-def monitor.

 

[SumnerH]

Chrome runs fine on my 2x4k monitors at work.

 

[Couperin47]

Chrome runs fine on my 2x4k monitors at work.

 
A ton of people report issues, you may have monitors that scale better than what they are using ? http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/06/05/the-secret-problem-with-4k-display-scaling/
Just Google 'Chrome on a 4k monitor'

 

[SumnerH]

That's a problem with Windows Display Scaling, which is a horrible hack for everything--it breaks all kinds of non-Microsoft apps terribly. Chrome works fine on 4k monitors in the Windows default (with no display scaling enabled), and in OS X and Linux.
 
If you really must turn on display scaling (I don't recommend it, it defeats half the purpose of getting a high pixel monitor) you can turn it off for Chrome only with a registry setting: http://www.ubergizmo.com/how-to/how-to-google-chrome-hidpi-support-windows/  You'll still have all kinds of other broken apps until you turn off the display scaling hack, but Chrome will work.
 
(Display scaling basically tells Windows to blow up everything onto a lower-resolution output screen; Microsoft-specific apps will antialias their text better so you don't lose complete resolution, but even in IE you're losing pixel resolution for all image and other non-text display as soon as it's enabled.  The proper solution for running apps readably on a high-def screen is to pick fonts that are sized reasonably for it, not to blow up everything by default which essentially is having the software driver turn your nice 4K display into a shitty lower-resolution display in general).

 

[Couperin47]

That's a problem with Windows Display Scaling, which is a horrible hack for everything--it breaks all kinds of non-Microsoft apps terribly. Chrome works fine on 4k monitors in the Windows default (with no display scaling enabled), and in OS X and Linux.
 
If you really must turn on display scaling (I don't recommend it, it defeats half the purpose of getting a high pixel monitor) you can turn it off for Chrome only with a registry setting: http://www.ubergizmo.com/how-to/how-to-google-chrome-hidpi-support-windows/  You'll still have all kinds of other broken apps until you turn off the display scaling hack, but Chrome will work.
 
(Display scaling basically tells Windows to blow up everything onto a lower-resolution output screen; Microsoft-specific apps will antialias their text better so you don't lose complete resolution, but even in IE you're losing pixel resolution for all image and other non-text display as soon as it's enabled.  The proper solution for running apps readably on a high-def screen is to pick fonts that are sized reasonably for it, not to blow up everything by default which essentially is having the software driver turn your nice 4K display into a shitty lower-resolution display in general).

 
Windows 8.1 is supposedly a bit better. I'm reluctantly suggesting 8.1 to some because it, at least, finally allows you to adjust multiple monitors separately and many acquaintances are using assorted multiple setups, not nicely matched setups. My only direct confrontation with the issue is a friend who, unfortunately, was dependent (in part in reality, in part from force of habit) on some old specific programs which never scaled well (all sorts of hard coded frames and shit). They were completely unusable on a High Def screen and he was not happy when told to switch software...
 
It doesn't help that Win 8 and 8.1 progressively have removed all user interface to options that control all sorts of aspects of the UI, it's not all that much fun adjusting look and feel via direct registry hacks, just because the folks at MS have decided they don't want you really monkeying with the way they have decided to set the latest fashion.