76ers 2019-2020

Jimbodandy

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Thanks for the link. He does a good job getting into the issues with the Sixers over-emphasis on post-ups, which is something I’ve also seen when I watch them play.

The Celtics are showing this year that post worries aren’t a legitimate reason not to go small. There are lots of ways to counter post dominance if you have speed, strength, and smart defensive players.

Philly seems moderately fucked to me, as currently constructed. Simmons+Embiid (although a MUCH more talented pairing) reminds me a lot of Utah wasting years trying to make Favors+Gobert work, when there just really wasn’t a way to mesh them.
That would be great, but they could change everything by picking up a sharpshooter or two. And it doesn't need to be a Reddick. That 2017 team had Belinelli, Ilyasova, Covington, and Saric also helping with spacing. Some of those guys are easier to find than others.

I'm not saying that it's definitely an easy fix, but I'm not sure that it isn't either.
 

lovegtm

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That would be great, but they could change everything by picking up a sharpshooter or two. And it doesn't need to be a Reddick. That 2017 team had Belinelli, Ilyasova, Covington, and Saric also helping with spacing. Some of those guys are easier to find than others.

I'm not saying that it's definitely an easy fix, but I'm not sure that it isn't either.
The problem is that available sharpshooters tend to give back a lot on the defensive end, otherwise they wouldn’t be available. The Celtics relentlessly hunted Bellinelli in the 2018 conference semis. Korkmaz can shoot...he’s just nearly unplayable on the other end.

There’s also a big difference between “good shooting spacer” and JJ Reddick.
 

Jimbodandy

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The problem is that available sharpshooters tend to give back a lot on the defensive end, otherwise they wouldn’t be available. The Celtics relentlessly hunted Bellinelli in the 2018 conference semis. Korkmaz can shoot...he’s just nearly unplayable on the other end.

There’s also a big difference between “good shooting spacer” and JJ Reddick.
Agreed on both counts.

But sometimes a minor tweak can make all of the difference. And Philly's defense can survive 18 minutes of one bad defender on the floor.
 

RetractableRoof

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Agreed on both counts.

But sometimes a minor tweak can make all of the difference. And Philly's defense can survive 18 minutes of one bad defender on the floor.
But can they survive 18 minutes of a really bad defender on the floor? Can an opposing team of athletic wings just go with, "whoever is guarded by X scores"? And more importantly, can the 76ers do it in a playoff situation? I think the most feasible way they can survive is to always pair that hypothetical bad defender and Embiid as a rim protector - which increases his burden. And what are they going to do during the other 30 minutes of lack of perimeter shooting/spacing?

Ordinarily, I'd say you were right - but Embiid (as tough as he likes to view himself) can't be used like a pack mule without breaking down. In the playoffs, I think it could depend on which teams he faces and in what order as to whether his body can hold up (though the every other night schedule helps an awful lot).
 

PC Drunken Friar

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lovegtm

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Jeesh that is a depressing read. Could the Sixers fit him in salary-wise if NOLA wanted to move him?
Yeah, they could--they'd have to either give up Richardson (unlikely) or else throw together a lot of their bench guys along with an asset.
 

Van Everyman

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Gotcha. Asking because it certainly sounds like Redick and the Sixers mutually would love a reunion.Based on that article anyway.

Imagine it would require Zion being done for the year or something for NOLA to consider it.
 

benhogan

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Jeesh that is a depressing read. Could the Sixers fit him in salary-wise if NOLA wanted to move him?
Would it shock you if the Pelicans asked for JRich (26) & Thybulle (22) in December and the Sixers pulled the trigger?

can't help myself when it comes to the 76ers
 

Smokey Joe

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Would it shock you if the Pelicans asked for JRich (26) & Thybulle (22) in December and the Sixers pulled the trigger?

can't help myself when it comes to the 76ers
You mean for J J Redick (35)? Yeah, I can totally see that.
 

terrynever

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76ers love Thybulle even though they are breaking him in slowly. He has hit a few threes with a smooth stroke so shooting does not appear to be an issue. I wish he were playing 20 minutes a night and sparking the second unit with his D but sometimes he is a DNP, other times he plays less than 10 minutes.
76ers substitution rotation is interesting. Brown splits up his two centers. Simmons spends a lot of time paired with Horford, who left his shooting touch in Boston.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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76ers love Thybulle even though they are breaking him in slowly. He has hit a few threes with a smooth stroke so shooting does not appear to be an issue. I wish he were playing 20 minutes a night and sparking the second unit with his D but sometimes he is a DNP, other times he plays less than 10 minutes.
76ers substitution rotation is interesting. Brown splits up his two centers. Simmons spends a lot of time paired with Horford, who left his shooting touch in Boston.
They may love Thybulle long term but watching him play several times I can’t imagine they want to play him right now. He isn’t a zero offensively.......he is well below a zero. He has no iso or ballhandling skills against pressure, is a terrible shooter, and an even worse passer. He’s essentially a turnover waiting to happen whenever the ball touches his hands.
 

terrynever

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They may love Thybulle long term but watching him play several times I can’t imagine they want to play him right now. He isn’t a zero offensively.......he is well below a zero. He has no iso or ballhandling skills against pressure, is a terrible shooter, and an even worse passer. He’s essentially a turnover waiting to happen whenever the ball touches his hands.
Thybulle just made a beautiful bounce pass to Harris for two points.
He reminds me a bit of former Celtics guard Don Chaney, a defensive stud at 6-5 who was a terrible shooter and hardly played in his first two years. But he learned to shoot while sitting on the bench. He had some good teachers. Went from 35 percent to 45 in his third year. Chaney was a project who went on to have a fine career, played on two league champion Celtic teams. Thybulle plays long and lean. He just reached over a Spur and kept a rebound alive. Long and lean, like Don Chaney.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Thybulle just made a beautiful bounce pass to Harris for two points.
He reminds me a bit of former Celtics guard Don Chaney, a defensive stud at 6-5 who was a terrible shooter and hardly played in his first two years. But he learned to shoot while sitting on the bench. He had some good teachers. Went from 35 percent to 45 in his third year. Chaney was a project who went on to have a fine career, played on two league champion Celtic teams. Thybulle plays long and lean. He just reached over a Spur and kept a rebound alive. Long and lean, like Don Chaney.
It isn’t only about shooting. He’s an NBA wing who literally can’t dribble at a D-1 level much less vs NBA defenders. I haven’t looked but I can’t imagine anyone in the league with a worse per48 TO rate. For this reason I can’t imsgine the Sixers not being a significantly worse team with Thybulle on the floor in his current version. He’s really that bad from what I’ve seen.
 
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terrynever

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It isn’t only about shooting. He’s an NBA wing who literally can’t dribble at a D-1 level much less vs NBA defenders. I haven’t looked but I can’t imagine anyone in the league with a worse per48 TO rate. For this reason I can’t imsgine the Sixers not being a significantly worse team with Thybulle on the floor in his current version. He’s really that bad from what I’ve seen.
He’s a project but there is much to like about Thybulle because Philly needs someone to play defense on opposing wings with the second unit. I haven’t seen enough of the kid yet to be sure of anything and I watch every 76ers game. Until he starts getting 20 minutes instead of 10 or 12, he’s not much of a factor.
Stat-wise, 2 TOs in last 61 minutes over prior five games. Averaging 1.2 TOs per 14 minutes. That’s around 3 per 36 minutes.
I feel a lot better about Thybulle than Fultz but even Markelle is starting to look like a NBA player now, in his third season. Not every rookie succeeds right away.
 
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Imbricus

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Thybulle is going to be a defensive menace. He had 4 steals last night against Sacramento. Right now, he's the NBA leader in steals per 36 minutes, at 3.7. Plus, he was 5 of 5 from the field last night, including 3 of 3 from three. It'll be interesting to watch him when Boston plays Philly again.
 

terrynever

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Thybulle is going to be a defensive menace. He had 4 steals last night against Sacramento. Right now, he's the NBA leader in steals per 36 minutes, at 3.7. Plus, he was 5 of 5 from the field last night, including 3 of 3 from three. It'll be interesting to watch him when Boston plays Philly again.
He got a few extra minutes last night because Josh Richardson sat out second half with a slight hamstring issue. Thybulle has hit 7 of his last 10 treys.
 

benhogan

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Thybulle is still averaging 6.1 fouls per 36 minutes. Work in progress in that respect.
I wouldn't read too much into fouls, some of the best defenders in the NBA are on top of the fouls list.

It probably means he is active, aggressive and helping his teammates - all good defensive qualities
 

DannyDarwinism

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He’s a project but there is much to like about Thybulle because Philly needs someone to play defense on opposing wings with the second unit. I haven’t seen enough of the kid yet to be sure of anything and I watch every 76ers game. Until he starts getting 20 minutes instead of 10 or 12, he’s not much of a factor.
Stat-wise, 2 TOs in last 61 minutes over prior five games. Averaging 1.2 TOs per 14 minutes. That’s around 3 per 36 minutes.
I feel a lot better about Thybulle than Fultz but even Markelle is starting to look like a NBA player now, in his third season. Not every rookie succeeds right away.
I suppose it’s possible for four year college player to be a project, but outside of Cam Johnson, I don’t know if there’s a guy from this draft class who that term is less appropriate for. That said, I really liked him pre-draft, and he’s done nothing to put me off since then. Early returns show his historic college stocks numbers weren’t just a product of the zone D (though I thought it was clear from watching him that the instincts, anticipation and athleticism were very real). I still think Rich Man’s Thabo Sefolosha is a reasonable expectation, and that’s a useful guy, but there’s definitely a possibility he can become a better shooting version of Tony Allen, and that’s a really valuable player. He’ll have to either learn to dribble or become an elite shooter if he wants to become much more than replacement level on offense, and as one of the oldest guys in the draft class, I dunno if I’d take those bets.
 

benhogan

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I suppose it’s possible for four year college player to be a project, but outside of Cam Johnson, I don’t know if there’s a guy from this draft class who that term is less appropriate for. That said, I really liked him pre-draft, and he’s done nothing to put me off since then. Early returns show his historic college stocks numbers weren’t just a product of the zone D (though I thought it was clear from watching him that the instincts, anticipation and athleticism were very real). I still think Rich Man’s Thabo Sefolosha is a reasonable expectation, and that’s a useful guy, but there’s definitely a possibility he can become a better shooting version of Tony Allen, and that’s a really valuable player. He’ll have to either learn to dribble or become an elite shooter if he wants to become much more than replacement level on offense, and as one of the oldest guys in the draft class, I dunno if I’d take those bets.
If he learns the corner 3, and lessens his involvement in the offensive flow at the top (which would cut down on the TOs) with his plus-plus defense. He's valuable. I also liked him a lot pre-draft and was surprised Danny didn't keep him. I'm happy with how it all worked out, but Philly did fine.
 

lovegtm

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If he learns the corner 3, and lessens his involvement in the offensive flow at the top (which would cut down on the TOs) with his plus-plus defense. He's valuable. I also liked him a lot pre-draft and was surprised Danny didn't keep him. I'm happy with how it all worked out, but Philly did fine.
There’s not much room for him to play in the next few years with Brown, Tatum, Smart, and maybe Hayward. They’re good to elite defenders who also happen to be able to dribble basketballs. I don’t think fit should matter at the top of the draft, but playing time for development and roster fit definitely start to matter around 20.
 

terrynever

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Thanks, guys. I appreciate the perspective you all provide. Happy Thanksgiving! The 76ers are going to test my patience this winter because they are infuriatingly inconsistent. The other three division contenders appear much more solid.
 

lovegtm

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Thanks, guys. I appreciate the perspective you all provide. Happy Thanksgiving! The 76ers are going to test my patience this winter because they are infuriatingly inconsistent. The other three division contenders appear much more solid.
Don’t sleep on the Pacers either. There are 6 very good teams at the top of the east.
 

terrynever

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76ers beat Toronto in Philly today as Matisse Thybulle scored a career-high 20 off the bench, including 5-for-8 from downtown. Tobias Harris led the way with 26. Simmons had 16 points and 11 rebounds. Launched no threes, despite his coach’s joking reference to taking one a game.
Philly led by 18 after three quarters. Still unbeaten at home and below .500 on the road.
 
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Big John

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I watched Philly Denver om my Jet Blue flight back from CA. I was not impressed with either team. Sloppy basketball by both teams, and even though the Nuggets played without much energy, they had multiple chances at the end.
 

benhogan

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I watched Philly Denver om my Jet Blue flight back from CA. I was not impressed with either team. Sloppy basketball by both teams, and even though the Nuggets played without much energy, they had multiple chances at the end.
On defense, the 76ers desperately want to slow down the opponent and get them into a halfcourt, rock fight.
On offense, Embiid gets the ball, stands there for 5 seconds, goes through his schtick, fires up an off-balance 15ft shot, tries to get a whistle and then bullies his way to the rim for the offensive rebound. Simmons basically scores in transition or just stands at the dunking spot. I don't care for it myself, but it works for them. They've kept their opponents below 100 in 10 of their wins this season.

Thybulle is pesky on D and is starting to hit the 3 consistently. Nice draft pick.

Also, the Nuggets lost Murray 5 minutes into the game with an injury, he's a big part of their offense.

I'm very interested in seeing how the Celtics handle them Thursday night.
 

Big John

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Horford was terrible in the first half, then came alive; Thybulle may have been Philly's best player after Embiid. Simmons was not very good at all. If the Celtics play good basketball they will win easily unless Philly cleans up the turnovers and mistakes. Philly has two significant weaknesses that can be exploited by opponents: Simmons can't shoot and Harris can't defend.
 

benhogan

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Horford was terrible in the first half, then came alive; Thybulle may have been Philly's best player after Embiid. Simmons was not very good at all. If the Celtics play good basketball they will win easily unless Philly cleans up the turnovers and mistakes. Philly has two significant weaknesses that can be exploited by opponents: Simmons can't shoot and Harris can't defend.
Will Barton repeatedly burned Tobias Harris to open the game, think Barton scored 15pts in Q1. The Harris MAX deal will age really poorly.
 

lovegtm

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Will Barton repeatedly burned Tobias Harris to open the game, think Barton scored 15pts in Q1. The Harris MAX deal will age really poorly.
It's pretty hilarious that Chris Paul would fit well on Philly, but OKC likely wouldn't take Harris in return. That's pretty brutal when you gave up assets for the guy less than a year ago AND (by all reports) chose him over Jimmy Butler.
 

chilidawg

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Horford was terrible in the first half, then came alive; Thybulle may have been Philly's best player after Embiid. Simmons was not very good at all. If the Celtics play good basketball they will win easily unless Philly cleans up the turnovers and mistakes. Philly has two significant weaknesses that can be exploited by opponents: Simmons can't shoot and Harris can't defend.
Pretty much what I saw as well. Philly's defense down the stretch was great. I don't think I saw Simmons make a single positive play in the half court, but he's a terror on the break, and Thybulle is a great finisher.
 

terrynever

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I will be most interested in the rebounding battle tonight. Boston is better now in this area than on opening night when the Celts got killed on the boards.

Philly has been a terrible road team this season. It is almost laughable the disparity between its home and road effort. I would be happy to see the 76ers show up tonight and battle for 48 minutes. Win or lose. Because that has not been happening so far, not on the road.

Boston should win tonight. The Celts are home. They need this game. Philly? Who knows what Embiid is thinking? Or Simmons. I still question this team’s mental toughness. You get tougher and more confident by beating a key rival on the road.
 

benhogan

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I will be most interested in the rebounding battle tonight. Boston is better now in this area than on opening night when the Celts got killed on the boards.

Philly has been a terrible road team this season. It is almost laughable the disparity between its home and road effort. I would be happy to see the 76ers show up tonight and battle for 48 minutes. Win or lose. Because that has not been happening so far, not on the road.

Boston should win tonight. The Celts are home. They need this game. Philly? Who knows what Embiid is thinking? Or Simmons. I still question this team’s mental toughness. You get tougher and more confident by beating a key rival on the road.
Celtics favored by 1.5pts

In the 76ers favor:
Celtics coming off a road back to back
tough loss last night
no Smart
no Robert Williams
Hayward banged up, questionable?

No Hayward and I'd say the 76ers would be slightly favored.

On the other hand, the Celtics can have Tatum, Brown, Kemba play huge minutes tonight with their next game in 6 days. Please Brad, do it...
 

terrynever

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Celtics favored by 1.5pts

In the 76ers favor:
Celtics coming off a road back to back
tough loss last night
no Smart
no Robert Williams
Hayward banged up, questionable?

No Hayward and I'd say the 76ers would be slightly favored.

On the other hand, the Celtics can have Tatum, Brown, Kemba play huge minutes tonight with their next game in 6 days. Please Brad, do it...
Honest question: How come Hayward keeps getting hurt?
 

benhogan

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Honest question: How come Hayward keeps getting hurt?
klutzy white dude
This is his 10th season and he's had 1 freak injury/season.

Broken finger early this year and got smacked in the nose last night and missed a quarter. Generic stuff that happens every day at the local YMCA.

The rest of those seasons he's averaged playing 90% of the games.

Outside the snapped ankle, pretty healthy.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Celtics favored by 1.5pts

In the 76ers favor:
Celtics coming off a road back to back
tough loss last night
no Smart
no Robert Williams
Hayward banged up, questionable?

No Hayward and I'd say the 76ers would be slightly favored.

On the other hand, the Celtics can have Tatum, Brown, Kemba play huge minutes tonight with their next game in 6 days. Please Brad, do it...
From my viewpoint the big thing to me is how Philly’s length, particularly on the perimeter and in the passing lanes, affects our ability to get/create good shots. I circled this date following our first meeting as a huge indicator of what our future head-to-head hopes would be based on whether we simply needed to make adjustments or if this is one of those “nightmare matchups” that NBA team have with certain opponents. It doesn’t help that Thybulle looks like a real NBA wing now capable of additional quality minutes rather than someone we can look to expose.

Needless to say, I’m not optimistic about tonight.
 

terrynever

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I’m apprehensive. This early in the season, almost any scenario can play out. No Marcus Smart is a break for Philly’s turnover-prone offense but they’ll probably turn it over 18 times anyway.
 

terrynever

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Lot of good things about Philly tonight along with the usual 8 or 9 incoherent plays. Nice to have a big man who can shoot free throws. Kind of makes up for the point guard who can’t. After a Simmons FT hit front rim, right side, and crawled into the net, destiny seemed on his side.
Kemba disappeared after a colossal first half. He baited Thybulle on two treys but Matisse blocked him twice. Philly’s length showed well in key moments. And Tobias Harris took over at times. He is not afraid to take big shots.
Boston missed Smart but seems short of one big man to help out on Embiid. 76ers got by without Horford. Stats show the offense is least efficient when both big guys are on the floor.
Philly won the boards 45-33, mostly in the second half when Boston‘s schedule caught up. Back to backs are tough.
It’s December. Long way to go.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Lot of good things about Philly tonight along with the usual 8 or 9 incoherent plays. Nice to have a big man who can shoot free throws. Kind of makes up for the point guard who can’t. After a Simmons FT hit front rim, right side, and crawled into the net, destiny seemed on his side.
Kemba disappeared after a colossal first half. He baited Thybulle on two treys but Matisse blocked him twice. Philly’s length showed well in key moments. And Tobias Harris took over at times. He is not afraid to take big shots.
Boston missed Smart but seems short of one big man to help out on Embiid. 76ers got by without Horford. Stats show the offense is least efficient when both big guys are on the floor.
It’s December. Long way to go.
The 76ers banked on taking away Kemba - it wasn't as if he stopped doing what he was doing. They doubled and trapped him, closed out on him hard and made him give up the ball. The rest of the C's were spotty to cold so it was a sound strategy.

That said, the 76ers defense was every bit as advertised tonight. Their well documented length and their active defense really came on in the second half. They are like the Clippers and Pacers in that with some line-ups, even good passes are susceptible to being deflected or stolen because of all that wingspan. They have wingspan for days.
 

terrynever

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The 76ers banked on taking away Kemba - it wasn't as if he stopped doing what he was doing. They doubled and trapped him, closed out on him hard and made him give up the ball. The rest of the C's were spotty to cold so it was a sound strategy.

That said, the 76ers defense was every bit as advertised tonight. Their well documented length and their active defense really came on in the second half. They are like the Clippers and Pacers in that with some line-ups, even good passes are susceptible to being deflected or stolen because of all that wingspan. They have wingspan for days.
Good point about Kemba. Philly has so many options on defense. Ennis’s length seemed to bother Kemba. Thybulle, too.
Boston created some turnovers, mostly on lazy passes by Philly. Simmons drives me nuts. But he is part of the length. Had a big block tonight after Boston stole the ball. Momentum-killer.
 

lovegtm

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Pretty interesting game, even if I think the result wasn’t indicative of much (in either direction, road game for Philly, B2B for Celtics, Horford and Smart out).

There was a lot of stuff on both sides that felt like it would be more optimized in a playoff setting, or even a regular season game that wasn’t as haphazard. This would be a really fun matchup, just because of the massive stylistic differences.
 

benhogan

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A good road win for the Sixers, nice run here with consecutive wins over Toronto, Denver, Boston. They probably have turned the corner.
Embiid looked inspired after the Shaq/Barkley roasting.
Mike Scott was huge going 5-7 from the 3pt line.
Thybulle continues to impress
50% 14-28 as team from 3, 19-23 FT probably their best shooting night of the season

Have to think/hope from C's perspective that Marcus Smart disrupts that shooting or in the very least works the officials a bit more.