76ers 2019-2020

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
30,446
Philly has more talent, size, athleticism than anyone in the East but the best team still wins in basketball. There is a history with the 76ers of having talented teams that do not win the big games. Embiid’s health is an ongoing story. It’s always fun to watch the 76ers, even if they break your heart in the end.
Again, their big additions in Horford in Richardson make that team very intriguing. I am inclined to pick them as my favorite in the East right now but a lot depends on whether Giannis makes another leap this year, how quickly Oliadpo returns (people are sleeping on the Pacers acquisition of Warren imho - he is every bit the value pickup that Richardson is for the 76ers) and whether Siakam can also build off of last year.

Richardson, in particular, is the key for me in Philadelphia. He had a down year last season but if his prior year was real/repeatable, the guy is a fantastic replacement for Butler. He isn't and never will be the defender that J Butt was, however he is still very good and he has the chance to be a better shooter, especially from behind the arc, than the misnamed Jimmy Buckets.

Overall this team's strength will be their length/defense (as others have noted here) which is a great thing to have. If Embiid stays healthy and Horford's decline is fairly gradual, they are going to be a nightmare matchup for anyone.
 
Last edited:

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
16,177
pawtucket
Again, their big additions in Horford in Richardson make that team very intriguing. I am inclined to pick them as my favorite in the East right now but a lot depends on whether Giannis makes another leap this year, how quickly Oliadpo returns (people are sleeping on the Pacers acquisition of Warren imho - he is every bit the value pickup that Richardson is for the 76ers) and whether Siakam can also build off of last year.

Richardson, in particular, is the key for me in Philadelphia. He had a down year last season but if his prior year was real/repeatable, the guy is a fantastic replacement for Butler. He isn't and never will be the defender that J Butt was, however he is still very good and he has the chance to be a better shooter, especially from behind the arc, than the misnamed Jimmy Buckets.

Overall this team's strength will be their length/defense (as others have noted here) which is a great thing to have. If Embiid stays healthy and Horford's decline is fairly gradual, they are going to be a nightmare matchup for anyone.
Thanks for your perspective. Nice to hear it from someone outside of Philly. Brett Brown loves to preach defense. Richardson is going to add a big defensive jump in JJ’s former position. If these guys all buy in on defense, seven or eight deep, they will be a nightmare matchup.
 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
7,603
Santa Monica
Again, their big additions in Horford in Richardson make that team very intriguing. I am inclined to pick them as my favorite in the East right now but a lot depends on whether Giannis makes another leap this year, how quickly Oliadpo returns (people are sleeping on the Pacers acquisition of Warren imho - he is every bit the value pickup that Richardson is for the 76ers) and whether Siakam can also build off of last year.

Richardson, in particular, is the key for me in Philadelphia. He had a down year last season but if his prior year was real/repeatable, the guy is a fantastic replacement for Butler. He isn't and never will be the defender that J Butt was, however he is still very good and he has the chance to be a better shooter, especially from behind the arc, than the misnamed Jimmy Buckets.

Overall this team's strength will be their length/defense (as others have noted here) which is a great thing to have. If Embiid stays healthy and Horford's decline is fairly gradual, they are going to be a nightmare matchup for anyone.
Yea, have to agree with all of this.

While I hated the Tobias deal, I guess they had to re-sign him. His bad defense can get hidden behind the other four players. As long as he can be a 3pt sniper, he'll add some value.

The Al Horford move was brilliant for the 76ers
1. He's in great shape, works hard and is damn good now.
2. He'll help with Embiid load mgmt
3. When his decline begins (I expect halfway through the 4yr deal) they can use his salary as filler and staple plenty of picks to add a star w/the Embiid-Simmons core thus creating a 4yr Championship window.
4. Plus they get to steal a Celtic favorite and rub it in our noses for a while o_O
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
38,195
People can laugh and yell "Fultz" all they want but Simmons is a very good basketball player even without a jump shot. If he manages to develop a credible one, the conversation about where he ranks and how high the 76ers ceiling is gets very interesting. In short, if he could shoot even at an average clip from deep, Philadelphia becomes the clear favorite to come out of the East.
Yes.

But that video didn't show that.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
2,281
Saint Paul, MN
I am inclined to pick them as my favorite in the East right now but a lot depends on whether Giannis makes another leap this year, how quickly Oliadpo returns (people are sleeping on the Pacers acquisition of Warren imho - he is every bit the value pickup that Richardson is for the 76ers)
I don't see how IND comes anywhere close to being the top seed even if Oladipo returns to form.
 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
7,603
Santa Monica
Its fine for this time of year - there are a ton of articles, blog posts etc about how players are working really hard during the summer. Heck we have even referenced Hayward's full summer of workouts in this forum with lots of people expecting that he will be back to the same level or better as he was during his final season with the Jazz.

Again, this is a story that bears watching and unlike the Fultz situation, there is no mystery here. Simmons can play basketball and is dominant without a shot. Its ok for columnists and fans to get excited by glimpses of him getting one, even if most people know that shooting vs friendlies in a gym in July is nowhere near taking a contested jumper versus actual NBA defenders during the season.

If I am a 76ers fan, I am pretty bulled up on the team without Simmons having an improved shot. As I stated upthread, if he gets it even partially figured out, that changes things for the better in a big way.
Which poster in this entire forum is claiming Gordon Hayward is going to be "better than his final season with the Jazz"?
Let alone "lots of people on this forum expecting the same level or better..."

You'll probably come back telling me that I'm taking an unfair "shot at you", or you're going to "ignore me" BUT just name all the posters or that one poster?

I understand your criticism of the Celtics this season and agree with a lot of it, but the posters around here have been pretty muted on Hayward. Most of the hope has been built around the Jays.

I know a few of us (myself included) were comping Tobias Harris and pre-injury Gordon Hayward, but no one in that thread claimed Gordon was going to surpass his 2016-17 this season.
 
Last edited:

128

lurker
May 4, 2019
191
I don't see how IND comes anywhere close to being the top seed even if Oladipo returns to form.
Agreed. Everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that Indiana lost Bogdanovich, Thad Young and Collison (who retired).
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
5,250
Kiev, Ukraine
Which poster in this entire forum is claiming Gordon Hayward is going to be "better than his final season with the Jazz"?
Let alone "lots of people on this forum expecting the same level or better..."

You'll probably come back telling me that I'm taking an unfair "shot at you", or you're going to "ignore me" BUT just name all the posters or that one poster?

I understand your criticism of the Celtics this season and agree with a lot of it, but the posters around here have been pretty muted on Hayward. Most of the hope has been built around the Jays.

I know a few of us (myself included) were comping Tobias Harris and pre-injury Gordon Hayward, but no one in that thread claimed Gordon was going to surpass his 2016-17 this season.
Agree, that's quite frankly ridiculous. I'm on the optimistic end of the Hayward people here, and I've been careful to say that his even getting back to that 2017 form is a best-case scenario. "Lots of people on this forum" is complete and utter BS, and DeJesus is much better than that.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
17,422
Yea, have to agree with all of this.

While I hated the Tobias deal, I guess they had to re-sign him. His bad defense can get hidden behind the other four players. As long as he can be a 3pt sniper, he'll add some value.

The Al Horford move was brilliant for the 76ers
1. He's in great shape, works hard and is damn good now.
2. He'll help with Embiid load mgmt
3. When his decline begins (I expect halfway through the 4yr deal) they can use his salary as filler and staple plenty of picks to add a star w/the Embiid-Simmons core thus creating a 4yr Championship window.
4. Plus they get to steal a Celtic favorite and rub it in our noses for a while o_O
Agree that the Al signing was about as good as PHI could do but let's not forget that JJ and Butler were huge parts of the PHI offense, particularly in half-court. Reddick's gravity provided huge spacing benefits for PHI and Butler was the guy they turned to when the shot clock was winding down and they needed someone to create.

Plus, like BOS last year, it will be interesting to see how Brett Brown distributes the ball. A lot of Al's value in BOS came in being heavily involved in moving the ball. But on this team, Simmons has to have the ball in his hands to provide any value; it's Embiid's teams so he gets as many touches as he wants; and Harris is already on record saying he was "underutilized" last year (see video below).

East is going to be super interesting this year.

 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
7,603
Santa Monica
Yes.

But that video didn't show that.
If nothing else that video shows how much the NBA newsflow has slowed down.

Ben is 0-17 in his career shooting 3pt shots and a career 58.3% FT shooter. His apprehension with shooting jumpers has been pretty well documented. An Instagram post of him hitting an open 3pt shot in a pick-up game with the mainstream media feasting on it is hilarious. Color me skeptical on Ben being a league-average shooter from deep this season or ever.

Obviously, Ben Simmons is still an All-Star without a jumper AND if he did develop a jumper he'd be All-NBA.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
30,446
Agreed. Everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that Indiana lost Bogdanovich, Thad Young and Collison (who retired).
I think Warren will offset most of Bogdanovich's production while Brogdon does the same for Collison and Lamb for Young. Given the age delta between the younger new guys and the players they are replacing as well as their respective career trajectories, I don't believe any of this is a stretch.
 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
7,603
Santa Monica
Agree that the Al signing was about as good as PHI could do but let's not forget that JJ and Butler were huge parts of the PHI offense, particularly in half-court. Reddick's gravity provided huge spacing benefits for PHI and Butler was the guy they turned to when the shot clock was winding down and they needed someone to create.

Plus, like BOS last year, it will be interesting to see how Brett Brown distributes the ball. A lot of Al's value in BOS came in being heavily involved in moving the ball. But on this team, Simmons has to have the ball in his hands to provide any value; it's Embiid's teams so he gets as many touches as he wants; and Harris is already on record saying he was "underutilized" last year (see video below).

East is going to be super interesting this year.

1. Harris will have to pick up JJ's missing 3pt shooting (along w/ Al and JRich). But agree JJ's spacing will be missed big time (losing Shamet hurts there)
2. J Rich will have to pick up Butler's defense.
3. Butler is a legendary ball hog, spotlight seeker. So ball back in Ben's hands.
4. I'm higher on Horford then most (especially on the way I'm expecting Phila to utilize him). I expect him to take advantage of mismatches on offense. When Simmons is sitting the ball can run through Al.
5. Even Philly's criticized bench is a combination of classic NBA role players (Ennis, Neto, O'Quinn, Scott) and up/coming youngsters (Thybulle, Smith, Milton, Bolden)

Brown will have to put the pieces together, but I don't see the contract/min. problem players (Rozier/MaMo) or star-crossed diva (Kyrie) or the injured favored son (Gordon) that Brad had to contend with.

I agree that offensive spacing in the halfcourt could be their Achilles Heel and expect the Celtics to game plan for that. Defensively Philly will be a beast and missed shots should lead to better offensive opportunities (fast breaks) for Phila.
 
Last edited:

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
30,446
Agree, that's quite frankly ridiculous. I'm on the optimistic end of the Hayward people here, and I've been careful to say that his even getting back to that 2017 form is a best-case scenario. "Lots of people on this forum" is complete and utter BS, and DeJesus is much better than that.
You are correct - my language was imprecise and I apologize that it distracted from my main point that some people (I am sorry I cannot cite specific examples of this - I will strike the comment if others disagree this happens) tend to get excited about the prospects of players improving as a result of summer workouts. I have edited the original post to clean up the phrasing.

I now understand that we are going to be extremely exacting in our language around tangental points in this forum and will fall into line. I hope others do the same though I will not be the one to hold them to that standard.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
5,250
Kiev, Ukraine
You are correct - my language was imprecise and I apologize that it distracted from my main point that some people (I am sorry I cannot cite specific examples of this - I will strike the comment if others disagree this happens) tend to get excited about the prospects of players improving as a result of summer workouts. I have edited the original post to clean up the phrasing.

I now understand that we are going to be extremely exacting in our language around tangental points in this forum and will fall into line. I hope others do the same though I will not be the one to hold them to that standard.
I think that the general toxicity around the team bled into the discussions here, a point you’ve made before. I hope we can be less demanding and pedantic about small points here, and a big part of that is not caricaturing the arguments others put forth.

I appreciate your points in general about cooling the jets and being realistic about the team.
 

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
16,177
pawtucket
I think that the general toxicity around the team bled into the discussions here, a point you’ve made before. I hope we can be less demanding and pedantic about small points here, and a big part of that is not caricaturing the arguments others put forth.

I appreciate your points in general about cooling the jets and being realistic about the team.
As the Philly guy who sort of started this thread (with an assist from Sprowl), I want to compliment you folks for very rational debating and compromising of opinions about the Celtics, and for incisive comments about the 76ers. I hope we can keep this 76ers thread on the same level throughout the upcoming season.
 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
7,603
Santa Monica
I think that the general toxicity around the team bled into the discussions here, a point you’ve made before. I hope we can be less demanding and pedantic about small points here, and a big part of that is not caricaturing the arguments others put forth.

I appreciate your points in general about cooling the jets and being realistic about the team.
I'm cool with that as long as I'm seen as the Baynes of the Port Cellar ;)

All I want to know is who is the Kyrie and Brad's favored son in the MBPC? :drunk:
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
30,446
I think that the general toxicity around the team bled into the discussions here, a point you’ve made before. I hope we can be less demanding and pedantic about small points here, and a big part of that is not caricaturing the arguments others put forth.
I don't want to derail the thread any further than it has been by posters with agendas other than just discussing hoops (not you) but I was reacting to a combination of comments in the Hayward thread as well as predictions about the team's win/totals and prospects next season. So my point wasn't entirely baseless - some posters seem pretty confident that Hayward will improve significantly next year, in addition to other players improving as well, as implied by their win totals. There are also comments to that effect in the actual Hayward thread. That said, my language was imprecise or incorrect. We now have a standard where we need to be very exacting in our takes or else we are going to have more diversions like this one - this is what the market wants apparently.

Back to the 76ers, their other signings are interesting as well with Kyle O'Quinn a decent bench upgrade while Raul Neto presumably takes some McConnell minutes. As others have stated, Zhaire Smith is the real X factor for this team - if he can make the leap and the other guys play at their expected levels, watch out.
 
Last edited:

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
22,692
Melrose, MA
some posters seem pretty confident that Hayward will improve significantly next year, in addition to other players improving as well, as implied by their win totals. There are also comments to that effect in the actual Hayward thread.
Without getting into a debate about what other posters may have said, it seems clear from the subtext the you are skeptical about improvement from Hayward. I guess, to me, that depends on what you mean by "improve significantly".

Will he meet or surpass his pre-injury production (ie, his 2016-17 production)? I think the obvious answer here is almost certainly not. The Paul George comparison is useful. It took Paul George several years to meet/surpass his pre-injury production, but he was younger when he got hurt and suffered an injury that, as catastrophic as it was, wasn't as bad as what happened to Gordon. And he was a better player to begin with.

But that said, to me there is a lot of room for improvement between what he did last year and what he did pre-injury. I think it is far more likely than not that he will improve quite a bit over last year, while not coming close to 2016-17.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
2,281
Saint Paul, MN
The Paul George comparison is useful. It took Paul George several years to meet/surpass his pre-injury production, but he was younger when he got hurt and suffered an injury that, as catastrophic as it was, wasn't as bad as what happened to Gordon. And he was a better player to begin with.
The year before both their injuries it is not clear that George was the better player to begin with. PG was younger, so you could see more growth potential. Hayward had an excellent year in Utah though, and on the ofensive side of the ball, he clearly outperformed PG. Probably was a wash when you factor in defense though
 

bowiac

I've been living a lie.
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
12,382
New York, NY
Paul George was legitimately in the discussion for second best player in the league before he got hurt, having given LeBron everything he could handle for two years in a row. Hayward was a great get for the Celtics (oof), but even ignoring age, George was on another tier as a player.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
2,852
Imaginationland
I agree that George pre-injury was a better player than Hayward pre-injury, but in no way was he in the discussion for second best player in the league. He had made 3rd team all-nba twice and had finished 9th in the MVP voting (right behind Al Jefferson) before getting hurt. He was an excellent defender (he'd just made 1st team all defense) but was a somewhat inefficient scorer and was not yet the player he is today. That was the year Durant won the MVP - there was absolutely no discussion regarding who was the 2nd best player in the NBA.
 

JCizzle

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2006
10,070
Somewhere KOC is yelling at the video: HE'S NATURALLY RIGHT HANDED.

He's not wrong. What an ugly looking shot.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
5,250
Kiev, Ukraine
Somewhere KOC is yelling at the video: HE'S NATURALLY RIGHT HANDED.

He's not wrong. What an ugly looking shot.
The crazy thing is...it’s not ugly! His form in that first photo looks exactly like Danny Green’s! It’s really good!

(Leaving off the part where he twists around at the end to fling it up with his left hand).

Simmons’ complete unwillingness to address this for multiple years is a massive red flag about his mentality imo, and I don’t care if that take is slightly hot.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
9,816
Waltham, MA
Seems like a sure thing however there are probably better ways to get more than a 2% return on $100K.
I think most of these reports are fake anyways. Free publicity for sports books if they can convince someone to write about it.
 

NickEsasky

Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2001
8,121
I have to admit those new alternative uniforms are pretty awesome.
 

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
16,177
pawtucket
One Philly scribe’s (David Murphy) take on Boston:


Take the Celtics, for starters. It was only two years ago that Boston walloped the Sixers in the Eastern Conference semis without Kyrie Irving. As talented as Irving is, the Celtics are replacing him with a guard whom the Sixers have struggled mightily to defend in Kemba Walker. In Jayson Tatum, they have a third-year wing who will only continue to grow on both ends of the court. In Gordon Hayward, they have a player who averaged nearly 22 points per game and shot 40 percent from three-point range in 2016-17 and who will have an entire offseason to focus on his game rather than his comeback from a devastating leg injury. They have one of the best coaches in the game, and plenty of flexibility to make the sort of in-season trade that can alter the conference’s balance of power. Is Boston well behind the Bucks and the Sixers in terms of talent? Sure. But the schadenfreude that has been enjoyed at their expense seems, at best, premature.
 

128

lurker
May 4, 2019
191
76ers release measurement chart of players, without shoes. Embiid not even 7 foot. Simmons just 6-9 1/2.
"Just" 6-9.5, in his socks? That's pretty freaking tall for any NBA player, but especially a guard.
 

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
16,177
pawtucket
I don't think he's saying there's a scandal, just that the NBA sent out an edict this preseason to get actual heights and some people might be interested in the changes.

Thanks. That was my point. Teams often list fudged heights and weights in their media guides, not just in hoops. Nice to see the real measurements that the NBA requires.
 

Rich Garces Belly

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2009
268
Zion came in at 6’6”, not sure why but I’m intrigued by the actual heights and weights. Christ could be a Tacko stopper, 7’3.5” in socks is massive
 

The Needler

lurker
Dec 7, 2016
1,750
Thanks. That was my point. Teams often list fudged heights and weights in their media guides, not just in hoops. Nice to see the real measurements that the NBA requires.
That's cool. It was hard to appreciate that point when you singled out "Embiid not even 7 foot. Simmons just 6-9 1/2." Because last year's media guide had Embiid 7'0" and Simmons 6'10. Doesn't really seem "fudged" as much as appropriately rounded up.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
7,959
76ers release measurement chart of players, without shoes. Embiid not even 7 foot. Simmons just 6-9 1/2.
Did Al Horford have a post-20 growth spurt? Because at the pre-draft combine a dozen years ago 6-9.25 was his height with shoes.
 

terrynever

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 25, 2005
16,177
pawtucket
Did Al Horford have a post-20 growth spurt? Because at the pre-draft combine a dozen years ago 6-9.25 was his height with shoes.
Florida listed Horford at 6-8 in 2004.