76ers 2019-2020

terrynever

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I can answer the headline without reading the article: what it means for the Sixers is that he'll be a good backup 15-20 mpg center, which is not a position you want to pay $27M/year for.
A championship season is the only way to justify Elton Brand’s collective decisions over the past year. He went all in on his vision. Looks bad right now but it’s really up to the players and the coach from here until June.
We fans of the NBA all have our opinions. That’s why we watch. I see your point of view but in this day and age, even a flawed team can go deep into the playoffs. Brand and Brown will be judged by their results.
 

lovegtm

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A championship season is the only way to justify Elton Brand’s collective decisions over the past year. He went all in on his vision. Looks bad right now but it’s really up to the players and the coach from here until June.
We fans of the NBA all have our opinions. That’s why we watch. I see your point of view but in this day and age, even a flawed team can go deep into the playoffs. Brand and Brown will be judged by their results.
They absolutely can go deep in the playoffs. They’re on a Bucks collision course, and it will not be the Milwaukee cakewalk most seem to think.
 

terrynever

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They absolutely can go deep in the playoffs. They’re on a Bucks collision course, and it will not be the Milwaukee cakewalk most seem to think.
Best Eastern Conference playoffs coming up since the 1980s, IMO. Six teams deep.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Best Eastern Conference playoffs coming up since the 1980s, IMO. Six teams deep.
I dunno, it looks 1-team deep from my seat but the non-Bucks series do look fascinating. The WC is kinda flipped around where you have more competition to advance to The Finals with less excitement surrounding the lower seeds especially if Doncic isn't 100%.
 

terrynever

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I dunno, it looks 1-team deep from my seat but the non-Bucks series do look fascinating. The WC is kinda flipped around where you have more competition to advance to The Finals with less excitement surrounding the lower seeds especially if Doncic isn't 100%.
You’re right about the Bucks but we can always dream. Has anyone found a way to slow down Giannis?
 

terrynever

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The year was 2019. The game: on Christmas. The player who decided to use his one monthly I’m Allowed to Try Today ticket? Joel Embiid.
Giannis made Embiid look silly in their most recent matchup, a 112-101 Bucks win in Milwaukee.. But maybe Joel learned from that. We’ll find out in the spring.
 

lovegtm

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Giannis made Embiid look silly in their most recent matchup, a 112-101 Bucks win in Milwaukee.. But maybe Joel learned from that. We’ll find out in the spring.
Theis made Embiid look silly a week prior to that. I read more into Embiid’s healthy/motivated games.
 

terrynever

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Theis made Embiid look silly a week prior to that. I read more into Embiid’s healthy/motivated games.
It sounds like this week’s Instagram exchange with Butler was the low point for Embiid. He quickly won the fans back against the Clippers. He went back to imploring the fans after big plays, and totally won them over by blocking a layup attempt by Philly native Marcus Morris. And he got in a shoving match with Morris. I think the competition provided by LA got him going. Again, let’s see Embiid, and his teammates, do it on the road and at home for a couple months. No games off.

Strange that giving full effort is something we worry about with Philly. That should be a given. But I guess the NBA schedule factors in. Still, the Bucks never take a night off. This year’s Celtics have no attitude problems.
 

Euclis20

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Clearly the issue is Horford.

Normally I'd say it doesn't really matter since they will be in the playoffs anyway, but there is a huge value in getting the 2-3 seed (avoiding the Bucks in round 2), and even in getting the 4 seed (getting homecourt in round 1, which seems especially important for Philly this year). Currently in 5th, 1.5 games behind Miami in 4th, 4 games behind Boston in 3rd and 6 games behind Toronto in 2nd.
 

lovegtm

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Clearly the issue is Horford.

Normally I'd say it doesn't really matter since they will be in the playoffs anyway, but there is a huge value in getting the 2-3 seed (avoiding the Bucks in round 2), and even in getting the 4 seed (getting homecourt in round 1, which seems especially important for Philly this year). Currently in 5th, 1.5 games behind Miami in 4th, 4 games behind Boston in 3rd and 6 games behind Toronto in 2nd.
Miami’s not as good as their record, and Boston has a very, very tough schedule, so they have a chance.

My ideal scenario is for them to get 4th, beat Miami with homecourt, and then face the Bucks with a healthy, motivated Embiid.
 

Euclis20

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And considering the Sixers' closing schedule (11 of their final 14 games are against teams currently under .500), that sounds like a pretty reasonable scenario.
 

terrynever

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I’m in on that scenario. A Boston-Philly ECF would be fun. Sixers will do all the heavy lifting to get there but maybe they should after their abysmal road record.
 

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Miami’s not as good as their record
The Heat are nearly unbeatable at home (22-3) so I don’t know what they overall baseline is in actuality. To me, I separate the Home Heat vs the Road Heat as two completely different teams much like I do with the Sixers. The primary difference I see between the two on the road is that while the Sixers underperform their talent with less effort on the road the Heat do give great effort on the road but just aren’t talented enough especially without Butler.
 

lovegtm

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The Heat are nearly unbeatable at home (22-3) so I don’t know what they overall baseline is in actuality. To me, I separate the Home Heat vs the Road Heat as two completely different teams much like I do with the Sixers. The primary difference I see between the two on the road is that while the Sixers underperform their talent with less effort on the road the Heat do give great effort on the road but just aren’t talented enough especially without Butler.
Yeah, I'm not overcomplicating it: basically I just don't think Miami is that physically talented, especially against the better teams, who can swallow up their shooters on one end and get mismatches on the other. It's cute they have a good home record, but I wouldn't bet on them to get out of the first round.
 
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lovegtm

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Man, watching that Clippers game: Shamet and Butler plus 1st rounders to deal for someone like Bertans would have been exactly the cure for what ails Philly. (Basing this on most reporting over the past year, which suggests that Butler's leaving was Philly's decision.)

The big lesson here is that you don't deal young players and picks when your team is about to lose all cap flexibility unless you're getting a total star, which Tobias Harris is not.
 

terrynever

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Man, watching that Clippers game: Shamet and Butler plus 1st rounders to deal for someone like Bertans would have been exactly the cure for what ails Philly. (Basing this on most reporting over the past year, which suggests that Butler's leaving was Philly's decision.)

The big lesson here is that you don't deal young players and picks when your team is about to lose all cap flexibility unless you're getting a total star, which Tobias Harris is not.
Further back in time, Lou Williams came up with Philly, too. 16 years in the league now. He was pretty sweet last night.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Further back in time, Lou Williams came up with Philly, too. 16 years in the league now. He was pretty sweet last night.
Philly spent like 6 years trying to develop him as a PG before the leagues view changed on undersized 2-guards.
 

terrynever

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Philly spent like 6 years trying to develop him as a PG before the leagues view changed on undersized 2-guards.
Just out of curiosity, I did some light research. Iverson played a combo PG and shooting guard until traded in 2006 to Denver. He was listed at 6-0 and 180. Andre Miller came over in the trade and played point for two years. Williams did not play much in his first two seasons but by the end of his time in Philly he was a nice scoring threat off the bench. But nothing like he has been in recent years. Last night, he brought the ball up and shot it on eight straight possessions at the end of third quarter and early fourth while Kawhi rested. Nobody could cover him. I love the guy. He left for Atlanta in 2012 and Iguodala also departed that year. Philly had a decent nucleus and would have been at least a .500 team but they chose to dump players and go into the tank. Give Philly fans credit for jumping back on board because the owners quit on their team and their fans for four years. They love hoops in Philly, both college and pro.

Sorry to go off on a tangent but I enjoy giving you folks a Philly perspective, as someone who has followed the team since Wilt arrived in 1958. Embiid is Wilt all over again, although nowhere near the athlete Wilt was.
 

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Sorry to go off on a tangent but I enjoy giving you folks a Philly perspective, as someone who has followed the team since Wilt arrived in 1958. Embiid is Wilt all over again, although nowhere near the athlete Wilt was.
Do you mean the Warriors? Or Syracuse?
 

terrynever

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Do you mean the Warriors? Or Syracuse?
They were the Warriors until 1962, as I think you were hinting. Warriors went to SF and Syracuse came to Philly with Hal Greer, Connie Dierking, and Dolph Schayes. Things got interesting in 1964 when Wilt returned in a trade.
 

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Sorry to go off on a tangent but I enjoy giving you folks a Philly perspective, as someone who has followed the team since Wilt arrived in 1958. Embiid is Wilt all over again, although nowhere near the athlete Wilt was.
It's good to get that Philly perspective, man. Fwiw, I grew up on the 1980s rivalry and loved those Sixers teams.
 

bigq

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It's good to get that Philly perspective, man. Fwiw, I grew up on the 1980s rivalry and loved those Sixers teams.
Same. Those 80s battles were epic and played a big role in me becoming a Celtics fan. So many fond memories of the Celtics going toe to toe with Dr J, Moses Malone, Maurice Cheeks, Barkley. I love the rivalry and it makes me happy that both teams are good and battling again. terrynever, please do continue with the Philadelphia perspective. I really appreciate it.
 

terrynever

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Thanks, guys. We have a very good dialogue going on this season on this thread. Most of us are just hoop fans who appreciate the skills both of our teams possess. I was blown away by Tatum the other night. Watching Jayson go against Simmons has been amazing this season. We really need a Boston-Philly matchup at some point this spring.
 

bankshot1

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Same. Those 80s battles were epic and played a big role in me becoming a Celtics fan. So many fond memories of the Celtics going toe to toe with Dr J, Moses Malone, Maurice Cheeks, Barkley. I love the rivalry and it makes me happy that both teams are good and battling again. terrynever, please do continue with the Philadelphia perspective. I really appreciate it.
The 7-gamers in '80-81 (Celts won-and went onto a title) and '81-82 (76ers won, lost to the LAL ) were classics, with the 80-81 arguably the best 7-game series in NBA history. This is not hyperbole, 5 of the 7 games were settled by 1 or 2 points, and the court littered with all-time great players. It was nail-biting, last-posession physical basketball, between two great teams that were great rivals. I have never seen a better 7-game series.
 

terrynever

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The 7-gamers in '80-81 (Celts won-and went onto a title) and '81-82 (76ers won, lost to the LAL ) were classics, with the 80-81 arguably the best 7-game series in NBA history. This is not hyperbole, 5 of the 7 games were settled by 1 or 2 points, and the court littered with all-time great players. It was nail-biting, last-posession physical basketball, between two great teams that were great rivals. I have never seen a better 7-game series.
Dr. J was starting to come out of the clouds by 1980 and Larry Bird was emerging as a young star who passed the ball so creatively it made even 76ers fans envious. Philly had the under-appreciated Mo Cheeks and an emerging star named Andrew Toney who torched Boston until his feet started hurting. And the big centers still had a role in the game. Moses and Parish. McHale with his baby hook, catching and shooting above the crowd, in one motion.

I miss those days. What we have today, though, is even better, more skilled, more athleticism and almost everyone can shoot the ball.
 

bankshot1

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Dr. J was starting to come out of the clouds by 1980 and Larry Bird was emerging as a young star who passed the ball so creatively it made even 76ers fans envious. Philly had the under-appreciated Mo Cheeks and an emerging star named Andrew Toney who torched Boston until his feet started hurting. And the big centers still had a role in the game. Moses and Parish. McHale with his baby hook, catching and shooting above the crowd, in one motion.

I miss those days. What we have today, though, is even better, more skilled, more athleticism and almost everyone can shoot the ball.
Ditto on the 80s.

I'm a Luddite-I thought the 80s physical inside game was a better game and in many respects more entertaining than today's outside/perimeter game, even if the players today are better shooters and better athletes.
 

terrynever

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Ditto on the 80s.

I'm a Luddite-I thought the 80s physical inside game was a better game and in many respects more entertaining than today's outside/perimeter game, even if the players today are better shooters and better athletes.
I loved all the eras. But when you look back at the 1960s video, the game was played more on the floor with only a couple guys on each team constantly above the rim. Connie Hawkins was the first big time dunker. Russell started the big change in elevation when he came along in the 1950s. You guys all know this from the history. My best sports memory of the 1960s was getting home from church at noon, turning on ABC and seeing Wilt and Russ lining up for the opening tip. Still my top NBA memory, those two guys.
 

Jimbodandy

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I loved all the eras. But when you look back at the 1960s video, the game was played more on the floor with only a couple guys on each team constantly above the rim. Connie Hawkins was the first big time dunker. Russell started the big change in elevation when he came along in the 1950s. You guys all know this from the history. My best sports memory of the 1960s was getting home from church at noon, turning on ABC and seeing Wilt and Russ lining up for the opening tip. Still my top NBA memory, those two guys.
Missed the 60s, but heard all about those teams from my dad, who was a huge fan of both Russell and Wilt (though Russell was his Mt. Rushmore across all sports).

Those 80s Sixers teams had lots of quality guys. The guards were hard (Cheeks, Toney, Hollins). Only guy I ever really hated was Toney, and only because he just killed us. The Jones brothers, Dawkins, Moses, and of course the Doctor--all killed us at times.

When we chanted Beat LA in the conf finals in 1982, it was out of genuine respect and a true, collective hope that your guys would do so.
 

snowmanny

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I have never considered the Lakers the Celtics biggest rival. 80-82 were just epic, on a par with Red Sox-Yankees 03-05. And I’m glad that in this iteration of the rivalry the Celtics took the first series. I’m pretty sure the Sixers will get them back at some point. But not this year.
 

terrynever

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Missed the 60s, but heard all about those teams from my dad, who was a huge fan of both Russell and Wilt (though Russell was his Mt. Rushmore across all sports).

Those 80s Sixers teams had lots of quality guys. The guards were hard (Cheeks, Toney, Hollins). Only guy I ever really hated was Toney, and only because he just killed us. The Jones brothers, Dawkins, Moses, and of course the Doctor--all killed us at times.

When we chanted Beat LA in the conf finals in 1982, it was out of genuine respect and a true, collective hope that your guys would do so.
I was there that day. The “Beat LA” chant was a real tribute to what sports is all about, and a great tribute to Celtics fans. That moment helped me and a lot of other people look at sports from both sides, and give credit when you lose to a worthy opponent.
 

terrynever

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I have never considered the Lakers the Celtics biggest rival. 80-82 were just epic, on a par with Red Sox-Yankees 03-05. And I’m glad that in this iteration of the rivalry the Celtics took the first series. I’m pretty sure the Sixers will get them back at some point. But not this year.
That’s a great analogy. So true. As a baseball fan, I never felt the kind of gut-churning tension as 03-04. On Opening Day of 2005, Mariano gave his own version of “Beat LA” when he doffed his cap and smiled in the Opening Ceremonies. Like the “Beat LA” chant, Rivera showed us that you can respect a hated opponent, at the appropriate time.
 

bankshot1

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I loved all the eras. But when you look back at the 1960s video, the game was played more on the floor with only a couple guys on each team constantly above the rim. Connie Hawkins was the first big time dunker. Russell started the big change in elevation when he came along in the 1950s. You guys all know this from the history. My best sports memory of the 1960s was getting home from church at noon, turning on ABC and seeing Wilt and Russ lining up for the opening tip. Still my top NBA memory, those two guys.
I got a Wilt story for you.

it was April 1967, the Eastern Conference Finals, Philly was up 1-0, and game 2 was a Sunday afternoon game on the parquet.

i snagged tickets early in the week (I went into the Garden box office, it used to be easy snagging C's tickets) in the 2nd balcony, and me and my buddy, took the T for the 40 minute trollley ride into the Garden to witness the latest battle between the Eastern conference rivals, and the match-up between Bill and Wilt.

As you surely recall that 76ers team was a monster, Wilt, Greer, Chet the Jet, Luke Jackson, Billy C, winning a then record 68 games, and favorites to finally dethrone the Celts.

Most details of that sad Sunday escape me, but as the 76ers were putting a strangle-hold on a 107-102 win and a 2-0 series lead, with the last few seonds ticking off the clock, Wilt took the ball and fist punched it straight up in the air, almost hitting the huge scoreboard that hovered over the court .

Disappointed and almost in shock with the home court loss, my buddy and I went to pinball arcade off the North Station lobby to kill time and let reality sink in before hopping the T back to the burbs. After dropping several dimes, we headed towards North Station lobby and to the subway, when I noticed I was walking in the shadow of a mountain. I looked up and saw a goateed covered chin what seemed like seeral feet above my head.

As I looked up, I said, "Good game Wilt""

He looked down and through the clouds, I heard a laugh, as he said,

"Good game?" Kid that was a great game"

And he was right as he strode off leaving me and the Cetls in his wake.

Wilt was going back to Philly up 2-0, secure in the knowledge he had a vice like grip on the series and now Bill and the Cs had to come to his house and win on his court.

That 76ers team was awesome.
 
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terrynever

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Missed the 60s, but heard all about those teams from my dad, who was a huge fan of both Russell and Wilt (though Russell was his Mt. Rushmore across all sports).

Those 80s Sixers teams had lots of quality guys. The guards were hard (Cheeks, Toney, Hollins). Only guy I ever really hated was Toney, and only because he just killed us. The Jones brothers, Dawkins, Moses, and of course the Doctor--all killed us at times.

When we chanted Beat LA in the conf finals in 1982, it was out of genuine respect and a true, collective hope that your guys would do so.
And then Magic Johnson happened, scoring 42 in Game 7 while filling in at center for the injured Kareem. The game was beginning to flow in a different direction with Magic-Bird taking over with their unique skills. To be followed in a few years by MJ.
 

terrynever

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I got a Wilt story for you.

it was April 1967, the Eastern Conference Finals, Philly was up 1-0, and game 2 was a Sunday afternoon game on the parquet.

i snagged tickets early in the week (I went into the Garden box office, it used to be easy snagging C's tickets) in the 2nd balcony, and me and my buddy, took the T for the 40 minute trollley ride into the Garden to witness the latest battle between the Eastern conference rivals, and the match-up between Bill and Wilt.

As you surely recall that 76ers team was a monster, Wilt, Greer, Chet the Jet, Luke Jackson, Billy C, winning a then record 68 games, and favorites to finally dethrone the Celts.

Most details of that sad Sunday escape me, but as the 76ers were putting a strangle-hold on a 107-102 win and a 2-0 series lead, with the last few seonds ticking off the clock, Wilt took the ball and fist punched it straight up in the air, almost hitting the huge scoreboard that hovered over the court .

Disappointed and almost in shock with the home court loss, my buddy and I went to pinball arcade in the North Garden lobby to kill time and let reality sink in before hopping the T back to the burbs. After dropping several dimes, we headed towards North Station lobby and to the subway, when I noticed I was walking in the shadow of a mountain. I looked up and saw a goateed covered chin what seemed like seeral feet above my head.

As I looked up, I said, "Good game Wilt""

He looked down and through the clouds, I heard a laugh, as he said,

"Good game?" Kid that was a great game"

And he was right as he strode off leaving me and the Cetls in his wake.

Wilt was going back to Philly up 2-0, secure in the knowledge he had a vice like grip on the series and now Bill and the Cs had to come to his house and win on his court.

That 76ers team was awesome.
Great anecdote. Reminds me that for a time Wilt made his home in NY while playing in Philly. Russell would sometimes stay with Wilt when their schedules permitted. Most people thought they were bitter rivals. But they were friends, too.
 

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Joel Embiid: "being the best player in the world, I just intend to keep coming out every single night and just play hard and trying to get wins and just go out and try to win a championship".

So he has that going for him I guess.

 

terrynever

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Joel Embiid: "being the best player in the world, I just intend to keep coming out every single night and just play hard and trying to get wins and just go out and try to win a championship".

So he has that going for him I guess.

25 years old, talks like a teenager.
 

lovegtm

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Al and Tobias Harris are quickly moving towards "worst contracts in the league" territory, which would drastically worsen the prospects for Embiid/Simmons' prime years.
 

Euclis20

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Harris' contract has the third most guaranteed money remaining (including this year) in the league, behind just Lillard and Klay Thompson (#s 4 5 and 6 are McCollum, Middleton and Kyrie. Interesting how you could argue that none of the top 6 contracts in the league are going to top 10 guys). That contract was pretty awful the day it was signed. A 27 year old who has never made an all star team and has been traded 4 times has the third biggest contract in the league, and the Sixers currently have either the 1st or second most money committed in each of the next 5 seasons. Not great.
 

lovegtm

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Harris' contract has the third most guaranteed money remaining (including this year) in the league, behind just Lillard and Klay Thompson (#s 4 5 and 6 are McCollum, Middleton and Kyrie. Interesting how you could argue that none of the top 6 contracts in the league are going to top 10 guys). That contract was pretty awful the day it was signed. A 27 year old who has never made an all star team and has been traded 4 times has the third biggest contract in the league, and the Sixers currently have either the 1st or second most money committed in each of the next 5 seasons. Not great.
Yeah, I don't really see how this ends well for them. I guess the best case realistic things would be for Thybulle to really pop and develop offensively, for Tobias to de-regress, or to really hit on a late draft-pick good role player type. It's just so much harder when your best two players don't complement each other and you have these bad contracts. If your top 2 guys complement each other ala LeBron/AD, you can get away with almost anything on the rest of the roster.
 

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It's a shame how unpopular Horford has become in Philadelphia so quickly. I wonder if he realizes he made a mistake.
 

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Hinkie to Colangelo to Brand is a steady downhill side that may not have yet hit bottom