7/24 Wednesday at the Pimple

canderson

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Under protest due to the placement of the substitutes in the lineup following the removal of the DH, it was just announced in the press box.
 

budcrew08

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I think that we're clear on everything that happened up to Roe replacing Kolarek, and Kolarek going to 1B.

AFAIK, it's fine for the pitcher to move to a different position and to return to the mound. I'm less sure on who takes the DH spot when that happens..the pitcher who's getting pulled or the pitcher coming in? At that point there are two pitchers on the field and they both need to occupy a lineup spot. Originally, Gameday said that Kolarek was in the 9 spot, replacing Choi, who left the game when the pitching change happened. Roe was batting 3rd. Then they brought Lowe into 1B, pulled Roe and put Kolarek back on the mound. Lowe was listed in the #3 spot.

Then the discussion and they changed it. Lowe now appears in 9th spot and Kolarek was listed at #3 and pinch-hit for by Adames. That would seem to be something that Cora was arguing SHOULD happen, as the Rays needed to PH immediately. But, that doesn't explain the protest.

Best guess is that, by putting Kolarek in the #9 spot and Roe @ #3, previously occupied by the DH, then Kolarek isn't allowed to pitch again? Not sure what sense that makes. Seems to me that you could start with 9 players on the field and have them rotate one position each inning, like volleyball. As long as they don't leave the game, they can play any position at any time.
Which works in a closed system. Once you start adding more people, it changes.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Horrible loss.

A step forward by winning two straight and then two steps back by losing against Charlie Fucking Morton. Hard to sweep on the road, harder when you only score two runs early.

The Jekyll and Hyde offense is getting really old. Hit the fucking ball, you pukes.
 

joe dokes

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To be fair, Charlie Morton is one of the best pitchers in baseball this year. He'd be our ace.
Yeah. Before the series, this was one of those where losing a well-pitched, low-scoring game seemed like a very possible outcome.
 

BaseballJones

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I don’t get the complaining about losing to Charlie F-ing Morton. The guy is a terrific pitcher and has been the past few years. He’s the guy I wanted the Sox to add this offseason. Yes I believe I’m on record here for that.

I mean losing always sucks but no shame in getting beat by Morton. Dude is good.
 

The Filthy One

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Getting one-hit by a guy who has been DFA'd by a third of the teams in the league is shameful. Losing by a run to a CY candidate on the road? Not so much.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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I was thinking I was going to be super-mature and post here that there's no shame in losing a road game to a really good team and a really good pitcher, and Price had a perfectly cromulent start.

Turns out the last half-dozen posters before me already voiced the same opinion.

2018 aside, it's reasonable to assume "You win some, you lose some" is perfectly reasonable, so long as the ones you lose don't include ones you have no business losing (like any game against Baltimore or Toronto). 2 of 3 in TB with a one-run loss to Charlie Morton is solid work
 

riboflav

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Angel Hernandez says Cash did not inform Hernandez of the Rays' new lineup when making all the substitutions. The rule allows for the home plate umpire to make that determination in absence of having that info. Hernandez did so. At that point, the decision is final. Hernandez says there's no room for interpretation (i.e. the rule is cut & dry) suggesting Cora will most certainly lose the protest.
 

riboflav

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After reading rule 510 B and its comment on "multiple substitutions," it would appear Hernandez is correct. However, under the "double switch" comment there is no mention of the umpire getting a say. It reads that the manager making the switch must inform the ump of batting order changes prior to crossing the foul line. I'm guessing Cora interpreted that this was a double switch (because it involved the pitcher) and that the double switch comment applies whereas MLB views it as applying to the multiple substitution comment.

Yes, the rule is confusing.
 

Cumberland Blues

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If Angel's interpretation is correct, next time the Sox are getting blown out w/ Angel behind the plate, Cora should move guys around defensively amid wholesale changes and not tell Angel where anyone is going in the lineup.
 

riboflav

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Actually, in thinking about it, wasn't there only one substitution at a time? So neither comment applies?
 

joe dokes

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If Angel's interpretation is correct, next time the Sox are getting blown out w/ Angel behind the plate, Cora should move guys around defensively amid wholesale changes and not tell Angel where anyone is going in the lineup.
On Jackie Robinson day.
 

cheekydave

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Crap, just saw there was a day game today, missed it, AND they lost. ANY legitimacy to Coras gripe? Percentage of playing the game again from that ppoint? Less than one %?
 

riboflav

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I'd say less than 1%. The rule isn't very clear. I mean three times it says the manager MUST inform the umpire of all changes. But then in one comment it seems to give an exception, question mark. So, my guess is the rules committee cleans it up in the offseason to make it clear but they do nothing here and basically tell the Sox behind the scenes rule isn't written well because no one anticipated that TB would do that and no one anticipated Hernandez's stupidity.
 
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riboflav

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Just read the DH rule and it appears Hernandez was being disingenuous by claiming this is cut & dry. Reading rule 511 suggests Cora/Sox may have a case. That by switching the pitcher to first base and removing the first baseman from the game, TB loses the DH AND the DH's spot in the lineup can never be altered. So, then the replacement pitcher comes in and takes the DH spot. While the original pitcher takes the first baseman's spot. Hernandez, instead, allowed the original pitcher who was already in the game (and moved to 1B) to take the DH's spot.
 

hunter05

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Crap, just saw there was a day game today, missed it, AND they lost. ANY legitimacy to Coras gripe? Percentage of playing the game again from that ppoint? Less than one %?
Not from what I can tell. It wasn't handled very well, because Angel Hernandez is well... Angel Hernandez, but I don't think it altered the outcome of the game. I could see MLB attempting to clarify what happened or what should've happened and maybe Hernandez gets spoken to or something, but that is it. There also wasn't any intent on the part of Cash.