6/26 Sox vs. Sox 3.0

geoduck no quahog

not particularly consistent
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The team showed so much heart coming back, and then roster mismanagement shot right through it. Dombrowski must know that you can’t win the close ones without closer. They either pick one up, put Barnes back to setup, or start selling and look for 2020.
 

Madmartigan

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May 1, 2012
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Losing a bunch of games due to blown saves must be really demoralizing to a team. They covered for it in the playoffs last year by riding starters out of the pen and guys like Kelly having a crazy good month, but this pen needed help badly and it got none.
 

LynnRice75

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Jul 15, 2005
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We just need to stay in the wild card hunt, barely make it in, win a nail-biter in the one game playoff, then have everyone get hot at once to win a few series in a row to repeat as World Champions.
It could happen.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Apr 22, 2016
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Any chance of winning either game in London? Will be very fortunate to not have a three-game losing streak by the time they get back.

It's time to make a call on this team and the call, from where I'm sitting, is that they just aren't good enough and any chance they had was eroded by piss poor planning heading into the season and an overworked bullpen that has never recovered.

Start working on the 2020 team.
They are "good enough" to get hot at the right time, squeak into the second WC spot, get lucky in that game and then who knows. I agree they don't at all seem like World Series contenders, but the expanded playoffs means that they are currently still fringe playoff contenders, for whatever that's worth.

If you are saying they aren't good enough to warrant spending significant assets at the deadline to improve at the margins...I won't argue with you there.
 

BaseballJones

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Oct 1, 2015
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alright @BaseballJones, what's our record in Chris Sale games now?

in the midst of all the shit of the late innings, this should have been an easy win.
6-11 sadly. It's really unbelievable. They should have cruised to win this game but Sale was terrible and just when the offense bailed them out, Barnes blew it.

Ugh.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Oct 20, 2015
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just really, really painful. No one imagined in March we'd be 9 games behind the Yankees heading into London. That's a ton to make up in 80 games, they're going to need to go at least 6-2 in the Fenway Yankee games to have a chance if not 7-1, and I don't need to tell you how unlikely that is.
 

S. H. Frog

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These guys can't play with the Yankees. If they score a run this weekend, it's a moral victory.
 

irinmike

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If you keep doing the same thing, you will get the same results. How many fucking times is this team going to first say the bullpen will be fine and we can fix this internally, and secondly bringing Barnes in (especially after pitching the night before) and blowing leads at the end of games. At this point in the season, which is the half way point, it is ridiculous.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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They are "good enough" to get hot at the right time, squeak into the second WC spot, get lucky in that game and then who knows. I agree they don't at all seem like World Series contenders, but the expanded playoffs means that they are currently still fringe playoff contenders, for whatever that's worth.

If you are saying they aren't good enough to warrant spending significant assets at the deadline to improve at the margins...I won't argue with you there.
Eh, I'd rather reload for next year. At some point, discretion is the better part of valor.
 

DeadlySplitter

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the Yanks, Dodgers and Astros have no problem competing year after year lately. bugs me that we can't be that consistent year to year, even if we have maxed our opportunity when we've been great.
 

rymflaherty

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Jun 27, 2010
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So they basically can’t pitch Barnes back to back, huh?
His era now has to be over 10 in such situations and is around 2 with any rest. I wish that was hyperbole, but it’s not, his era was 9.39 in this article I found from 6/22.
Just about every time it’s a disaster and makes me wonder why they even bother running him out there in such a high leverage situation.
 

DeadlySplitter

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with Workman used the prior two games and the top of the order, Cora really didn't have much choice. you want to try Brasier out there? there was no good option.
 

Back Bay

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So they basically can’t pitch Barnes back to back, huh?
His era now has to be over 10 in such situations and is around 2 with any rest. I wish that was hyperbole, but it’s not, his era was 9.39 in this article I found from 6/22.
Just about every time it’s a disaster and makes me wonder why they even bother running him out there in such a high leverage situation.
He sucks and the options sucks after him. This pen is what it is, not good.
 

amRadio

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Feb 7, 2019
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Barnes has never in his career been a consistent high leverage reliever. He's never gotten that job done. I get we have nothing, but he really doesn't feel like the answer in these situations and this is getting nauseating.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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the Yanks, Dodgers and Astros have no problem competing year after year lately. bugs me that we can't be that consistent year to year, even if we have maxed our opportunity when we've been great.
Their skippers don't tell their starters to take 75% of spring training off because they pitched a widdle too much in October. Nearly every problem with this team can be traced back to Cora's need to be the smartest guy in the room back in March. I really hope he's learned his lesson.

with Workman used the prior two games and the top of the order, Cora really didn't have much choice. you want to try Brasier out there? there was no good option.
Taylor seemed to do just fine when he was brought in. As I said upthread, I hope he's the next guy to get a shot at it and maybe sticks.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Their skipper doesn't tell their starters to take 75% of spring training off because they pitched a widdle too much in October. Nearly every problem with this team can be traced back to Cora's need to be the smartest guy in the room back in March. I really hope he's learned his lesson.
I wouldn't say nearly every problem, but I agree it's a significant factor. it cost us games when the pen was actually good, now the offense is mostly up to speed but the pen is now bad.
 

scottyno

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Dec 7, 2008
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the Yanks, Dodgers and Astros have no problem competing year after year lately. bugs me that we can't be that consistent year to year, even if we have maxed our opportunity when we've been great.
the yankees went a 4 years stretch just recently where they played a combined 1 playoff game and lost it and haven't won a division title since 2012
 

JBJ_HOF

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Their skippers don't tell their starters to take 75% of spring training off because they pitched a widdle too much in October. Nearly every problem with this team can be traced back to Cora's need to be the smartest guy in the room back in March. I really hope he's learned his lesson.
Pretty ignorant hot take
 

S. H. Frog

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So "best pitcher, highest leverage" lasts until maybe July this time. That's an improvement on last time, when it got to May, right?

It is a tantalizing bullpen philosophy, and when arms are fresh, it seems to work. What would it take? Two or three pretty good pitchers to cycle through the highest-leverage innings? Extra solid triple-A arms to swap out to keep the pen fresh? What do you save? Big dollars on a primadonna closer? And if you need two or more closer-quality arms, what's the benefit? Just pay the big bucks for a closer, give him the ninth and run the risk that your other guys can get you there.

Or is the idea to play it like last year: win the division and have the starters buy in to pitching bullpen innings?

Maybe the weird end-of-game bullpen innovation is too much of a half step and it's time to do away with starters?

Hopefully they come back from London with a win and things don't seem so bleak next week.
 

JBJ_HOF

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It is a tantalizing bullpen philosophy, and when arms are fresh, it seems to work. What would it take? Two or three pretty good pitchers to cycle through the highest-leverage innings?
it would take not having your 7th and 8th starters getting the shit kicked out of them every 5th day for 3 straight months
 

Stu Nahan

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The division is over and this team is going nowhere with this bullpen. They can compete for a wild card and pray for the best. With this collection of shit coming out of the pen, they have no shot.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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The alternative is injury. Can’t have it both ways.
Sale WAS injured, though. And the assumption that they'd all get injured is silly. They'd had, what, four months off by the time they reported?

How much time does the body need to heal from doing something it's been doing for several months out of the year for years?
 

scottyno

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The division is over and this team is going nowhere with this bullpen. They can compete for a wild card and pray for the best. With this collection of shit coming out of the pen, they have no shot.
could probably find 1000 similar posts from last august/september, no team that makes the playoffs with 2 ace quality pitchers has no shot
 

The Gray Eagle

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Yeah I know, but what has happened to pitchers' arms?
They pitch completely differently than they used to.
A few differences IMO: they throw with maximum effort on every pitch now, and throw violent breaking balls very often. Relievers are completely focused on throwing one inning at max effort. And they don't take greenies now like they used to in the 60s through the 90s, when they could eat them like candy.
Bob Stanley didn't go max effort every time out, he could afford to pace himself to go multiple innings. Almost half the hitters in the lineups he faced weren't power hitters, so he could attack the zone more against them without much fear. He could throw his 88 mph sinking fastball again and again and get pretty good results. If he pitched like that today, he'd eventually get pounded.
 

DeadlySplitter

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What? Red Sox have won the division 3 years in a row.
This game broke me and I was on little sleep, sorry.

the Dodgers though have been a division winner several times in a row. I think that's more the other teams really suck in their division, though.