30 for 30

johnmd20

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At the end, when BB was stating that he could have acted differently after the split, taking partial responsibility for "the silence" then then Parcells said something to the effect of "I didn't see it as a real problem," BB had a really odd but telling reaction shot (he looked really surprised), which said a lot to me about the discomfort they still feel, and what a dick Parcells still is.
Parcells is a megalomaniac. He was always a horrible human being and that hasn't changed. He was also a pretty good coach, but he isn't close to one of the best of all time. And what he did to New England was awful.

Belichick's defenses won those super bowls for Parcells. I'm glad they addressed that in the 30 For 30.
 

Ed Hillel

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I forgot how much of a dick Parcells really was. Why would he have screwed over Belichick with the Giants in 1990 like that? He knew he was “retiring” before that Superbowl started. Then he did it again with the Jets, how the hell can anyone blame Belichick?

Also, I gotta ask if Belichick was needling Parcells at the end there. “How’s the heart?”

lol
 

moondog80

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I forgot how much of a dick Parcells really was. Why would he have screwed over Belichick with the Giants in 1990 like that? He knew he was “retiring” before that Superbowl started. Then he did it again with the Jets, how the hell can anyone blame Belichick?
With the Jets, he was just acting in the best interest of his employer, in his role as team GM. With the Giants, I thought it came out a few years ago that it was well known to Giants insiders that George Young preferred Ray Handley?
 
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Dan Murfman

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Listening to Francesca on Simmons podcast and he’s reiterating how much George Young disliked Belichick and he was not getting the job.
 

edmunddantes

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Carrol at the Press conference had such a weird speech pattern. He seemed super overeager and uncomfortable in his skin as he made the "groceries" joke.
 

Hoya81

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I forgot how much of a dick Parcells really was. Why would he have screwed over Belichick with the Giants in 1990 like that? He knew he was “retiring” before that Superbowl started. Then he did it again with the Jets, how the hell can anyone blame Belichick?

Also, I gotta ask if Belichick was needling Parcells at the end there. “How’s the heart?”

lol
It seemed benign, maybe that Parcells has had some additional health issues the last few years.
 

joe dokes

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I actually took that to be a sign of what little personal relationship they have now. They talked a good game about the professional mentorship, and the story ended by trying to push the "I love you guy" angle, but all of the interaction between them was not the least bit warm. It was like a college reunion, good at telling stories about the good times, but the "so, you married, kids?" sort of small take belied any real interest. An occasional "hows the heart" grunt question from Belichick to Parsells, or a compliment about coaching to Belichick by Parcels, and if you look at Belichick's body language, his shoulders involuntarily twitched a bit at how uncomfortable he was during the interview. So, I think they could talk in greater detail about the professional path they both shared, and where they are professionally now, but my sense is neither really cares that much for out of football personal stuff.

I think that stems from the unalterable fact that BB consistently credits Parcells with hiring him, showing him the ropes about coaching (as McD has said BB did with him), etc. etc. All of which is true. The "only" thing that Parcells could reciprocate with is the role BB played in Parcells SB wins which he's hesitant to do. Maybe its the way he is. Maybe he's worried that BB now-historical greatness has taken some shine off his own success.
Generally speaking, BB is much more publicly gracious about those who helped him - past and present. It's hard to have a show based on mutual admiration -- as opposed to just historical fact -- when only one side opens up about it.
 

drbretto

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I'm having trouble, too. I sign in with my cable provider and it keeps telling me I'm not subscribed to ESPN. It works just fine for the live feed, though.
 

garlan5

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This is what I get. When I click the 30 for 30 on left out just takes me to the right and the four short clips.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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Was there a specific incident or player decision that led to Parcells making the groceries comment or did he just want GM duties? This was a little before my time. Was it just a clash of egos with Kraft that led Parcells to negotiate with the Jets before the Super Bowl?
 

moondog80

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Was there a specific incident or player decision that led to Parcells making the groceries comment or did he just want GM duties? This was a little before my time. Was it just a clash of egos with Kraft that led Parcells to negotiate with the Jets before the Super Bowl?
As I remember, there was defensive player he wanted to pick instead of Terry Glenn.
 

nattysez

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The story is a seminal moment in Patriots lore. Glenn, an uncommonly graceful All-America receiver from Ohio State, was selected seventh overall in the 1996 NFL Draft over the objections of Parcells, the accomplished and obstinate coach. Parcells coveted a defensive lineman — Oklahoma’s Cedric Jones and Texas’s Tony Brackens were rumored to be his favorites.

His intention, he acknowledged years later, was to get a receiver later in the draft, a big-time pass catcher for young quarterback Drew Bledsoe in a receiver-rich draft that included future stars Marvin Harrison, Terrell Owens, Eric Moulds, and No. 1 overall choice Keyshawn Johnson.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/patriots/2017/11/20/terry-glenn-emergence-with-patriots-was-something-special/5Ke17gmxObyxqA1HxQzgtI/story.html
 

dcmissle

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On the morning of that draft — they started Saturdays then — the Globe published two notable articles, one by Will McDonough, the other by Borges. McDonough’s said they were going with the defensive player; Borges’ said they were going with Glenn. Editors were a inspired to run both. Borges was right, and McDonough, then a big swinging dick nationally, was not amused, though he quickly got over it and gave Borges credit.

Parcells was furious. It was plain he was the source of McDonough’s story, and he felt the team went the extra mile to humiliate him. My bet, though I don’t know, is that Jonathan Kraft was the author of the humiliation and either fed the true story to Borges directly, or maybe through Bledsoe.

Ownership’s decision but handling it this way was asking for trouble, especially with a guy like Parcells.
 

j-man

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I thought Capers was a pretty good coach with Carolina in the 1990s. He got them to the NFC championship game pretty quickly. One last thought about Capers..besides almost being the Pats coach in 2001, wasn't he brought in 2008 to be the designated head coach of Bill had gotten suspended for Spygate? Do I remember that incorrectly? Anyway, a great documentary with the Jets shade an added bonus.
he was a good coach but kind of bland and not great on off and let say u still draft brady in 2000 well Capers wouild had went with bledoe let say bledoe still gets hurt and brady still wins all those games well back then blodoe was the guy i think brady wouild been dealt to SF for 2 1st 2 3rds and julian petetson
 

moondog80

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On the morning of that draft — they started Saturdays then — the Globe published two notable articles, one by Will McDonough, the other by Borges. McDonough’s said they were going with the defensive player; Borges’ said they were going with Glenn. Editors were a inspired to run both. Borges was right, and McDonough, then a big swinging dick nationally, was not amused, though he quickly got over it and gave Borges credit.

Parcells was furious. It was plain he was the source of McDonough’s story, and he felt the team went the extra mile to humiliate him. My bet, though I don’t know, is that Jonathan Kraft was the author of the humiliation and either fed the true story to Borges directly, or maybe through Bledsoe.

Ownership’s decision but handling it this way was asking for trouble, especially with a guy like Parcells.

From Parcells' POV, what was the conspiracy to humiliate him, beyond not letting him run the draft? The info leaked to Borges was true. Did they tell Parcells they would draft a defensive player, knowing he wold leak it to McDonough (and the public would know that it was Parcells who told him), when the plan was to draft Glenn all along?
 

FL4WL3SS

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Watched it last night and while I thought it was good, I felt like they could have spent less time on the drama stuff and a bit more time on the mechanics of what made them so successful together. Explain more of the X's and O's, things they did that differentiated themselves from the rest of the league, how they used certain players, etc. The drama stuff could have been covered in the first half with more of the working relationship covered in the second half. I really was hoping to hear what made them both so successful.

Rehashing the entire timeline of the relationship was interesting, but there was so much more depth there than was covered.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Watched it last night and while I thought it was good, I felt like they could have spent less time on the drama stuff and a bit more time on the mechanics of what made them so successful together. Explain more of the X's and O's, things they did that differentiated themselves from the rest of the league, how they used certain players, etc. The drama stuff could have been covered in the first half with more of the working relationship covered in the second half. I really was hoping to hear what made them both so successful.

Rehashing the entire timeline of the relationship was interesting, but there was so much more depth there than was covered.
I’d love to just see the full interview and nothing else. It was great but I was hoping for a bit more of thn main interview.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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As I remember, there was defensive player he wanted to pick instead of Terry Glenn.
Yep. And btw, I remain convinced that the selection of Glenn cost the Patriots the Superbowl that year.

In general, this wasn't the best 30 For 30 but if you are Giants or Patriots fan or a football nerd, this was a fascinating look at some huge, complex personalities. Both Bills come off as very intelligent but still guarded individuals. Its amazing that Belichick agreed to do this given what we know about his aversion to the media in general.
 

drleather2001

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Yep. And btw, I remain convinced that the selection of Glenn cost the Patriots the Superbowl that year.
.
I’ve heard a lot of interesting football opinions this week but this might be the most bizarre.

What rookie would have had as bigger part of the 1996 Pats’ success than a guy who stepped in and grabbed 90 balls for 1100 yards?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I’ve heard a lot of interesting football opinions this week but this might be the most bizarre.

What rookie would have had as bigger part of the 1996 Pats’ success than a guy who stepped in and grabbed 90 balls for 1100 yards?
He did play well. But his selection was the breaking point for Parcells and one of the catalysts for all the drama before the Superbowl that year. My assumption is that had Parcells been fully engaged, they still make it to the playoffs and Superbowl that season. However they win because Parcells doesn't already have one foot out the door before the kickoff. YRMV.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Two interesting notes:

On Simmons podcast, Francesa said that the Giants never would’ve hired Belichick as head coach even if he hadn’t taken the Browns job before Parcells announced he was stepping down. Francesa said that GM George Young “haaaaaaated” Belichick and nevvuh woulda hired him.

Second on the 30-for-30 additional content podcast, the director related that he came up with the idea for using split screen to continually show each Bill’s reaction to what the other was saying from studio comedies of the 1950s where the production code forbade showing shots of couples in bed together.
 

Van Everyman

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My bet, though I don’t know, is that Jonathan Kraft was the author of the humiliation and either fed the true story to Borges directly, or maybe through Bledsoe.
What indication is there that Jonathan was even doing anything of substance for RK back in 1996 much less playing the role of Sonny Corleone?
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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He did play well. But his selection was the breaking point for Parcells and one of the catalysts for all the drama before the Superbowl that year. My assumption is that had Parcells been fully engaged, they still make it to the playoffs and Superbowl that season. However they win because Parcells doesn't already have one foot out the door before the kickoff. YRMV.
Those are some pretty big assumptions to make.
 

shaggydog2000

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Yep. And btw, I remain convinced that the selection of Glenn cost the Patriots the Superbowl that year.

In general, this wasn't the best 30 For 30 but if you are Giants or Patriots fan or a football nerd, this was a fascinating look at some huge, complex personalities. Both Bills come off as very intelligent but still guarded individuals. Its amazing that Belichick agreed to do this given what we know about his aversion to the media in general.
Belichick doesn't like answering the same simple questions from reporters looking for a quote to tie into their story. Then again, every once in a while he will talk for minutes about punt blocking technique or some other detail like that which he cares about. But he loves the history of the sport, and I think this fits into the side of him that likes putting context onto his career and that of the guys he's worked with, and to educate people about the game's past.
 

CPT Neuron

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I found the entire documentary fascinating from a human relations perspective - 2 geniuses so to speak in very different realms that collided in a very bizarre and perfect way. The historical perspective was riveting and the impact they both have had on the game cannot be overstated - it was a good watch and much more informative than I could have hoped for.
 

Humphrey

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What's the theme of the (to be aired) show? To me the most tragic thing about the event was how it was the portent of the horror show that was the Red Sox for the next several years.
 

riboflav

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I could be naive but is this really all that interesting anymore? The Red Sox have won 3 WS since and are a totally different franchise today. Whenever I see the clip these days, I don't even shrug. It literally has no effect on me.
 

berniecarbo1

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I could be naive but is this really all that interesting anymore? The Red Sox have won 3 WS since and are a totally different franchise today. Whenever I see the clip these days, I don't even shrug. It literally has no effect on me.
It was a moment in time and anyone born since roughly 1997 cannot relate to it since the Sox have won and been generally competitive since those folks have been old enough to remember things.. It's like the Babe Ruth trade for baby boomers. Back 100 years ago, trading the best player in the game for a ton of cash and a bucket of balls so the owner can put on a Broadway show was big, but when you aren't around to remember it, for us boomers, it's just a footnote in sports history....like the Bucky Dent thing is today.
 

drbretto

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I think you'd have to go back further than '97. I think you had to have actually lived it to still hang onto the anger there. Or at least through osmosis if your family lived it and didn't stop talking about it while you were growing up or something. I was born in '82 an Buckner doesn't even affect me.
 

Bergs

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I could be naive but is this really all that interesting anymore? The Red Sox have won 3 WS since and are a totally different franchise today. Whenever I see the clip these days, I don't even shrug. It literally has no effect on me.
I still get pissed over game 163 in '78, if that answers your question.
 

54thMA

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I could be naive but is this really all that interesting anymore? The Red Sox have won 3 WS since and are a totally different franchise today. Whenever I see the clip these days, I don't even shrug. It literally has no effect on me.
Winning three WS titles since has no bearing on how impactful it was to have witnessed it in real time.

That 1978 collapse was a sports death from 10,000 cuts, it was excruciating to go through, the Boston Massacre in early September was torture All they had to do was win of one of those fucking games and the playoff game never happens.

For them to blow such a huge divisional lead only to battle back and force a playoff game and then lose the game largely thanks to that fucking stooge hitting a pop up over the wall was the ultimate nut punch.

Not to mention the moron has lived off of that moment ever since.

That said, I will watch it only because of what you said; they've won three WS titles since, including one where there staged the greatest comeback in baseball playoff history against the same assholes who caused Red Sox fans so much heartache since 1918, including 1978.

OR, what Bergs said...........
 

Domer

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ESPN is partnering with Netflix for a 10-part, 10-hour documentary on Michael Jordan and the Bulls. Bill Simmons mentioned that there is tons of behind-the-scenes footage from Jordan's last Bulls season, but no film maker had ever secured Jordan's participation to make a documentary out of it. I don't think 10 hours is the proper length, but there should be tons of stuff we haven't seen before.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/espn-netflix-partner-michael-jordan-doc-series-last-dance-1111939
 

GeorgeCostanza

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ESPN is partnering with Netflix for a 10-part, 10-hour documentary on Michael Jordan and the Bulls. Bill Simmons mentioned that there is tons of behind-the-scenes footage from Jordan's last Bulls season, but no film maker had ever secured Jordan's participation to make a documentary out of it. I don't think 10 hours is the proper length, but there should be tons of stuff we haven't seen before.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/espn-netflix-partner-michael-jordan-doc-series-last-dance-1111939
I probably watched 100 hours worth of Come Fly With Me, Playground, and Air Time as a kid/teen, so 10 hours is definitely not the proper length. Give me 50.