2025 Ryder Cup: Destination Long Island

rmurph3

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Nov 28, 2003
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Westwood, MA
Love Bethpage, great memories of attending the 2002 Open there with my late father. Strongly considering making this trip.
 

cshea

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The crowd and atmosphere will be insane, no doubt, but I think Bethpage is a terrible golf course for a professional tournament, probably even worse for match play than stroke play.

The captaincy will almost certainly be Tiger's, though he did hedge a bit at one of the majors this year saying he wasn't sure. I shudder to think of the alternatives. I guess Stricker again?

Also, I know the US is home now so the pendulum is in our favor, but I wish there was a 3rd party there to set up the golf course. The alternating blowouts thing is getting old.
 

RedOctober3829

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Jul 19, 2005
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deep inside Guido territory
Keegan as captain never really crossed my mind, but now I fucking love it. Guy loves the Ryder Cup if you saw Full Swing last year. As a Vermonter, it's awesome to see a fellow native get this kind of honor. Maybe he gets Tom Brady to be around the team ala Michael Jordan? Also, as a St John's grad they play Bethpage regularly and host an event there every year so he has extensive knowledge of the course that other choices may not have. It's an outside the box hire, but I could not be more fired up for this.
 
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DontTauntOrtizMe

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Jul 18, 2005
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Keegan as captain never really crossed my mind, but now I fucking love it. Guy loves the Ryder Cup if you saw Full Swing last year. As a Vermonter, it's awesome to see a fellow native get this kind of honor. Maybe he gets Tom Brady to be around the team ala Michael Jordan? Also, as a St John's grad they play Bethpage regularly and host an event there every year so he has extensive knowledge of the course that other choices may not have. It's an outside the box hire, but I could not be more fired up for this.
This is an awesome pick. And you just know that if Spieth and Thomas continue to play like shit, Keegan will have the stones to not select them.
 

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
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Feb 22, 2004
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This is an awesome pick. And you just know that if Spieth and Thomas continue to play like shit, Keegan will have the stones to not select them.
Not that the OWGR are the end all be all but currently:

Thomas: #26
Spieth: #34

And that's with a handful of LIV guys not accruing many points anymore. Americans ahead of the duo: Scheffler, Schauffele, Clark, Morikawa, Cantlay, Dechambeau, Harman, Theegala, Homa, Finau, Henley, Captain Bradley (LOL), Young, Bhatia. Burns and McCarthy are ahead of Spieth. Have to think a couple other guys work their way into the Top 25 by next fall too.

Neither Thomas and Spieth's games look like they're trending in the better direction though I think Thomas has a much better chance of finding something again. Spieth looks like he's moving into the make money and hope to win a couple times the rest of the way phase of his career. But the event is just for drunken funsies and both are extremely popular so we'll see.
 

snowmanny

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Dec 8, 2005
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Holy shit! Bradley? Good for him. I felt he got royally screwed last year and it is time to break up any cliques.
 

cshea

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Holy shit! Bradley? Good for him. I felt he got royally screwed last year and it is time to break up any cliques.
Netflix dramatized it but I didn't think it was that big of a snub. Bradley wasn't even the highest ranked player on the points list who got skipped over, Cam Young was 9th and got left off. Keegan was 11th. And a big reason they lost was the guys who qualified, not the picks. Scottie, Xander and Morikawa combined to go 2-8-2.

As for his captaincy...I think I like it? I always figured it'd be Tiger but he is too busy with the Tour negotiations. If it wasn't going to be Tiger, I didn't want them to rotate through a task force guy like they've been doing for the past decade. I wanted some fresh blood and they certainly delivered. Bradley is an admitted outsider to the group. So he's not going to take a player for the sake of making this team a buddies golf trip (although I do think player relationships need to be factored in to some degree).

Biggest question is how he can balance the captaincy with his playing career. He's only 38 and still 19th in the world (35th by DataGolf) so he's not totally past the prime of his playing career. I'd imagine he'd like to try and play for the team too? Or is he content to step aside, give up what could be his last chance at playing in it, and just be the captain? The captaincy comes with a lot of off course responsibilities. Also, as a self-proclaimed outsider, can he connect with the team?
 
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cshea

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Keegan says he's still going to try to make the team on points but won't pick himself if he falls short.

(we need to eliminate the points system)
 

Average Reds

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Even with the dysfunction gripping professional golf these days - and, yes, I’m aware that the Ryder Cup is run by the PGA of America and not the Tour - I’m still calling shenanigans on that.

No way he was named without a single conversation.
 

cshea

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Even with the dysfunction gripping professional golf these days - and, yes, I’m aware that the Ryder Cup is run by the PGA of America and not the Tour - I’m still calling shenanigans on that.

No way he was named without a single conversation.
There's probably some nuance. I certainly don't think they called Keegan out of the blue yesterday to offer the job to him.

After Tiger turned them down they probably re-grouped and landed on Keegan as their guy with a few others as a contingency. Then they reached out to Keegan and while maybe there wasn't a formal interview process they probably had multiple discussions before it was finalized.
 

cshea

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Would like to hear your reasoning behind both of those statements.
Sure.

The "we are going to get destroyed" was mostly a tongue in cheek reaction to Webb Simpson being named a Vice Captain. It mostly boils down to not liking Webb, I've never been a fan. He comes across as an entitled brat. I think Vice Captains are largely useless, and they end up with like 6 of them and 12 actual players, so I don't think it's make or break but I do think there are some warning signs here. First, Webb's track record in Ryder Cup's is not great. He's played in three, went 4-4-1, but the team is 0-3. In one of his appearances, he called Watson and begged his way onto the team. Secondly, they appointed Bradley as the captain and have sold it as an outside the box hire and signaled a change in the way they are going to do things. To me, Webb seems like a status quo type pick for VC where everyone who has played on a team gets a turn at VC and eventually captain. I don't think it's a needle moving pick, also decision but I also don't see the first order of business for Bradley being to get Webb in the room.

As for Bethpage...I just don't think it's an interesting venue for pro golf. It's long, narrow and has deep rough. I don't think it sets up well for exciting golf. The championships that have been played there have largely been duds. Tiger in 02 was mostly a runaway, 09 US Open was a Lucas Glover/Ricky Barnes showdown and the 09 PGA was basivally over by Friday afternoon with Koepka going up by 7. Miss the fairway, chop out, try to get up and down from 100 yards on repeat. It's kind of similar to Torrey Pines, minus the handful of holes at Torrey along the cliffs with a ocean view. The biggest selling point is the crowd and atmosphere, which will be fantastic and will have the Euro's crying and invoking Brookline before the tournament even starts. Maybe they can set it up radically different but I don't think "hard" courses are good fits for match play. I want to see shot making, birdies and bogeys at every turn and I don't think Bethpage provides that. From a shot making perspective, long, narrow and deep rough basically means it's going to be bomb and gauge and I think it's going to be a lot pars and bogeys. Maybe I'm wrong about the set up but even the two regular PGA Tour tournaments they've held there have been tougher than the typical PGA Tour set up. And bomb and gauge will benefit the US more than Europe so I'm sure they'll lean into it. That's great for winning, maybe not so great for the product. I've said it before but my ideal US Ryder Cup venue is TPC Scottsdale. I'd throw in TPC Sawgrass as well. Stadium coures that are built to hold a ton of fans and have awesome closing stretches where anything can happen.
 
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Eagle3

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Feb 26, 2004
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Sure.

The "we are going to get destroyed" was mostly a tongue in cheek reaction to Webb Simpson being named a Vice Captain. It mostly boils down to not liking Webb, I've never been a fan. He comes across as an entitled brat. I think Vice Captains are largely useless, and they end up with like 6 of them and 12 actual players, so I don't think it's make or break but I do think there are some warning signs here. First, Webb's track record in Ryder Cup's is not great. He's played in three, went 4-4-1, but the team is 0-3. In one of his appearances, he called Watson and begged his way onto the team. Secondly, they appointed Bradley as the captain and have sold it as an outside the box hire and signaled a change in the way they are going to do things. To me, Webb seems like a status quo type pick for VC where everyone who has played on a team gets a turn at VC and eventually captain. I don't think it's a needle moving pick, also decision but I also don't see the first order of business for Bradley being to get Webb in the room.

As for Bethpage...I just don't think it's an interesting venue for pro golf. It's long, narrow and has deep rough. I don't think it sets up well for exciting golf. The championships that have been played there have largely been duds. Tiger in 02 was mostly a runaway, 09 US Open was a Lucas Glover/Ricky Barnes showdown and the 09 PGA was basivally over by Friday afternoon with Koepka going up by 7. Miss the fairway, chop out, try to get up and down from 100 yards on repeat. It's kind of similar to Torrey Pines, minus the handful of holes at Torrey along the cliffs with a ocean view. The biggest selling point is the crowd and atmosphere, which will be fantastic and will have the Euro's crying and invoking Brookline before the tournament even starts. Maybe they can set it up radically different but I don't think "hard" courses are good fits for match play. I want to see shot making, birdies and bogeys at every turn and I don't think Bethpage provides that. From a shot making perspective, long, narrow and deep rough basically means it's going to be bomb and gauge and I think it's going to be a lot pars and bogeys. Maybe I'm wrong about the set up but even the two regular PGA Tour tournaments they've held there have been tougher than the typical PGA Tour set up. And bomb and gauge will benefit the US more than Europe so I'm sure they'll lean into it. That's great for winning, maybe not so great for the product. I've said it before but my ideal US Ryder Cup venue is TPC Scottsdale. I'd throw in TPC Sawgrass as well. Stadium coures that are built to hold a ton of fans and have awesome closing stretches where anything can happen.
The US team talent at least equals Europe and they might have more depth, but of course that hasn't mattered in the past because "team" play is such a big factor. Which is where the captain comes in. I didn't see Keegan coming at all. It will be interesting to see what he brings to the table. I doubt Simpson will be much of a factor at all. I DO expect Tiger to get involved at some level though, maybe as a late arriving vice. His experience on that course would be a huge asset in a coaching role. They would be crazy not to tap into that.

As for Bethpage, I hear what you are saying as far as it not being a fan friendly venue for those looking for a birdie fest. That is definitely a grind it out track. The dramatic putts might be to win with par instead of birdie.
 

johnmd20

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The US team talent at least equals Europe and they might have more depth, but of course that hasn't mattered in the past because "team" play is such a big factor. Which is where the captain comes in. I didn't see Keegan coming at all. It will be interesting to see what he brings to the table. I doubt Simpson will be much of a factor at all. I DO expect Tiger to get involved at some level though, maybe as a late arriving vice. His experience on that course would be a huge asset in a coaching role. They would be crazy not to tap into that.

As for Bethpage, I hear what you are saying as far as it not being a fan friendly venue for those looking for a birdie fest. That is definitely a grind it out track. The dramatic putts might be to win with par instead of birdie.
Of late, since 2014 the home team wins.

The 2025 Ryder Cup is in the US. Ergo, the US will win.
 

cshea

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The US team talent at least equals Europe and they might have more depth, but of course that hasn't mattered in the past because "team" play is such a big factor. Which is where the captain comes in. I didn't see Keegan coming at all. It will be interesting to see what he brings to the table. I doubt Simpson will be much of a factor at all. I DO expect Tiger to get involved at some level though, maybe as a late arriving vice. His experience on that course would be a huge asset in a coaching role. They would be crazy not to tap into that.

As for Bethpage, I hear what you are saying as far as it not being a fan friendly venue for those looking for a birdie fest. That is definitely a grind it out track. The dramatic putts might be to win with par instead of birdie.
It's not so much that I'm looking for birdies as much as I just don't like the style of golf Bethpage will promote. Bomb and gauge, to the extreme.
 

RedOctober3829

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Jul 19, 2005
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Sure.

The "we are going to get destroyed" was mostly a tongue in cheek reaction to Webb Simpson being named a Vice Captain. It mostly boils down to not liking Webb, I've never been a fan. He comes across as an entitled brat. I think Vice Captains are largely useless, and they end up with like 6 of them and 12 actual players, so I don't think it's make or break but I do think there are some warning signs here. First, Webb's track record in Ryder Cup's is not great. He's played in three, went 4-4-1, but the team is 0-3. In one of his appearances, he called Watson and begged his way onto the team. Secondly, they appointed Bradley as the captain and have sold it as an outside the box hire and signaled a change in the way they are going to do things. To me, Webb seems like a status quo type pick for VC where everyone who has played on a team gets a turn at VC and eventually captain. I don't think it's a needle moving pick, also decision but I also don't see the first order of business for Bradley being to get Webb in the room.

As for Bethpage...I just don't think it's an interesting venue for pro golf. It's long, narrow and has deep rough. I don't think it sets up well for exciting golf. The championships that have been played there have largely been duds. Tiger in 02 was mostly a runaway, 09 US Open was a Lucas Glover/Ricky Barnes showdown and the 09 PGA was basivally over by Friday afternoon with Koepka going up by 7. Miss the fairway, chop out, try to get up and down from 100 yards on repeat. It's kind of similar to Torrey Pines, minus the handful of holes at Torrey along the cliffs with a ocean view. The biggest selling point is the crowd and atmosphere, which will be fantastic and will have the Euro's crying and invoking Brookline before the tournament even starts. Maybe they can set it up radically different but I don't think "hard" courses are good fits for match play. I want to see shot making, birdies and bogeys at every turn and I don't think Bethpage provides that. From a shot making perspective, long, narrow and deep rough basically means it's going to be bomb and gauge and I think it's going to be a lot pars and bogeys. Maybe I'm wrong about the set up but even the two regular PGA Tour tournaments they've held there have been tougher than the typical PGA Tour set up. And bomb and gauge will benefit the US more than Europe so I'm sure they'll lean into it. That's great for winning, maybe not so great for the product. I've said it before but my ideal US Ryder Cup venue is TPC Scottsdale. I'd throw in TPC Sawgrass as well. Stadium coures that are built to hold a ton of fans and have awesome closing stretches where anything can happen.
The 2019 PGA at Bethpage was a good tournament. Yes Brooks was up by 7 after the 3rd round, but I was there on Sunday and it got tight at the end which made for some drama. The winning score ended up being -8. I think the setup for the course will be different for the RC than it was for the majors. They will tailor it to the USA's strengths which usually means lower rough. I imagine they will play with the tee placements. I've heard that they may use the lower tee box on 1 to set up the massive grandstand we've been accustomed to. Keegan was talking like there will be 10,000 people on the 1st tee. The lower rough should make for some birdie fests. I also think that there are natural hills and such around the holes that will be able to fill a lot of people in on it.

I'm going to go over and try to play one of the Bethpage courses before the season is over so I can go take a peak at Black to see if they begun anything in terms of course prep.
 

cshea

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$750 gets you in for a tournament day in which there are a total of 8 matches (12 on Sunday). The return on your $750 is you can sit in a general admission grandstand around a tee or green for 12 hours and see, what 20-30 or so shots all day. Or you can roam around and try to fight 10 deep crows to try and catch a glimpse of a shot.
 

cshea

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You're probably right and I'm sure they've done the market research but FWIW the 2021 GA prices for the 3 tournament days were $340, $358, S280.

Even those prices are insane.
 

Catcher Block

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Mar 7, 2006
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If you missed the public drawing for this but still want tickets, there's a Citi Card offer out there. This link should get you there.

It does not appear to be tied to an email or anything. If it asks for a BIN or presale code, use 41940554. Purchase has to be made with a Citi debit or credit card.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
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Talk intensifying maybe about US players getting paid for the Ryder Cup.

Not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand, it makes a crap ton of money and the worker is worthy of his wages. On the other hand, I see Rory's point, that this and the Olympics are basically the two events (Presidents Cup too?) that are played for pride and national glory, and pay should be kept out of it.

Interesting.
 

jercra

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Jul 31, 2006
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Talk intensifying maybe about US players getting paid for the Ryder Cup.

Not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand, it makes a crap ton of money and the worker is worthy of his wages. On the other hand, I see Rory's point, that this and the Olympics are basically the two events (Presidents Cup too?) that are played for pride and national glory, and pay should be kept out of it.

Interesting.
It's not like the money made is going into the coffers of the already wealthy. It goes to the PGA of America (on the US side, obviously), which is an organization that, warts and all, is extremely good for the game of golf and not one the generates tons of revenue from other avenues. I'm sure most, if not all, of the players benefited from a PGA teaching pro or two in their rise to greatness. It's also not like any player good enough to make a Ryder Cup has not already made a large sum of money or is about to make a large sum of money. To me, one party needs the money and does a lot of good for the game while the other side is just worried about getting theirs and getting "exploited".