2025 Draft: Patriots Discussion

[Mugsy's Jock]

Well, if you thought 2024 was fun, the experts see the Pats getting all the way to #1 in 2025.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40205833/2025-projected-nfl-draft-order-32-first-round-picks-no-1-favorites-teams-top-10

 

[j-man]

denver couild be 1 maybe NYG Car as well no way NE picks any lower then 5 through

 

[NoXInNixon]

Well, they were third worst last year, and the only two major changes they made were replacing the GOAT coach with a rookie coach, and replacing a bad QB with a rookie QB (or Jacoby Brissett)

It's tough to see how they get much better than they were last year, and easy to see how they could be even worse.

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

Well, they were third worst last year, and the only two major changes they made were replacing the GOAT coach with a rookie coach, and replacing a bad QB with a rookie QB (or Jacoby Brissett)

It's tough to see how they get much better than they were last year, and easy to see how they could be even worse.

Tougher schedule too. AFC south and NFC west have very few pushovers, plus Bengals and Bears.

 

[BuellMiller]

Well, they were third worst last year, and the only two major changes they made were replacing the GOAT coach with a rookie coach, and replacing a bad QB with a rookie QB (or Jacoby Brissett)

It's tough to see how they get much better than they were last year, and easy to see how they could be even worse.

I don't know if they had worse that league average injury luck, but losing Gonzalez, Judon, Bourne, and Mar. Jones for much of the season wasn't ideal. And they went 4-13, but were only blown out in like 2 or 3 games (and 4-8 in one score games). (But the schedule being a lot harder and losing BB for the defensive side probably are bigger negative factors than any of these possible positive regressions to the mean or the possibility of getting anything close to competent QB play.

 

[j-man]

if maye can be like herbert from LA u can win 6-7 games although if slater was this in to coaching i would hired him over mayo because bill would help him behind the screns and u get the genius of bill gameplanning gameprep with a more laid back coach for the players

because bill wouild want slater to win he is most likely 50-50 with mayo

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

OK, a ridiculously too-early stab at team needs in the 2025 draft, two games into the regular season

(So we can all look back at this in a few months and laugh)

Now, I'm a believer in drafting the best player available and all that, but if you got a group of people all ranked equally it's good to know where someone will have more of a chance to step in and contribute


Higher Need (= it's important and we don't have it)

• WR1 - Don't have one on the roster, and it's a big problem
• OT - It's all been said already
• Edge rusher (DL/OLB) - In the first two games Keion White was more or less the only guy who was punishing single coverage. And in the second half again Seattle when the 'Hawks consistently sent help on White their QB got really comfortable

Medium Need (= either it's less important or we kinda have it)

• OG - Hopefully before the end of this season one of our kids steps up and drops this down to 'low'. But in week two young Robinson had a rough day and Sow/Caedan spent most of the afternoon on the slidelines
• TE - Henry and Hooper are both playing well, but they're vet journeymen who will likely be gone by the time this team is making a meaningful playoff run. We don't need to address this in the '25 draft, but we'll need to address it eventually
• LB - Ja'Whaun Bentley is 28 and now out for the year. Jahlani Tavai plays with a lot of energy, is intuitive and clearly sees the game well, and seems like one of those 'culture' guys that coaches really want to have in the locker room. And it feels like most of his best plays are moments when he sees something and then does exactly what you want a competent LB to do. But he's almost never at an athletic advantage against anyone. So he's both our best LB and also... fine. Which is to say if the best player available and the best way to get White help is too add a LB, that person should be able to earn playing time

Lower Need (= not as important or we got some talent, at least for us)

• QB - Maybe draft a late round project, but the QB room could easily be the same next year with just the depth order changed
• HB - Rham is one of the bright spots of the year
• Interior DL - Ekuale seems to muck things up competently enough. Don't really have a sense for the bench. In the scenario where Barmore comes back no worse for the wear next year we should be in relatively good shape here
• CB - Everyone wants a bunch of great corners. Christian and the Joneses feels good enough for now. Upgrading probably would cost a really high pick that is better spent on the positions above
• WR2-3 - We just drafted a bunch of folks here and I'd give it another season to see who rises to the top before investing meaningful picks in this group
• S - I'm not sure how much you're going to affect the W/L record by trying to upgrade Duggar and Peppers

That's how I see it in mid-September. Check back in January to see everything that's wrong

 

[NextBigThing8184]

I think CB is a much bigger need than people think. Gonzalez looks fine but the other guys aren’t part of the future. Jonathan Jones is getting old and is likely in his decline phase. Marcus Jones is a mediocre slot. Marco Wilson and Alex Austin are bad or at best JAG.

A legit #2 CB is a pretty big need albeit perhaps one they can address in free agency if they decide to spend money.

Interior DL is another issue. Even if Barmore comes back 100%, he’s the only guy who can disrupt the QB. Ekuale is a 30 year old JAG, Godchaux is fine as a 0 or 1 technique on run downs. The rest are practice squad guy or waiver wire fodder. Wise is miscast whenever he’s asked to kick inside unless it’s obvious passing situations like 3rd and a mile. They need someone else up front who can push the pocket

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

In my fantasy world, the Pats finish with a worse record than the Giants, the Raiders, and some other QB needy teams, and can create some deal heat for a trade. I dont think we'll ever see another Bryce Young type deal again, but let's say the Pats have #3 or #4, and can get the #7 or 8 pick, the corresponding second rounder, and 2026 3rd. I would make that trade and take either a top CB or DL in the first, and then a tackle and WR with the two picks at the top of the second round. This assumes that they dont fill those needs through FA. I do agree that the defense is going to need some refreshing if they are going to continue to play at a high level until the offense starts to click.

 

[BaseballJones]

I think CB is a much bigger need than people think. Gonzalez looks fine but the other guys aren’t part of the future. Jonathan Jones is getting old and is likely in his decline phase. Marcus Jones is a mediocre slot. Marco Wilson and Alex Austin are bad or at best JAG.

A legit #2 CB is a pretty big need albeit perhaps one they can address in free agency if they decide to spend money.

Interior DL is another issue. Even if Barmore comes back 100%, he’s the only guy who can disrupt the QB. Ekuale is a 30 year old JAG, Godchaux is fine as a 0 or 1 technique on run downs. The rest are practice squad guy or waiver wire fodder. Wise is miscast whenever he’s asked to kick inside unless it’s obvious passing situations like 3rd and a mile. They need someone else up front who can push the pocket

You always need good CBs in today's NFL. I think Jonathan Jones is still pretty good, and Gonzalez looks legit. Marcus is fine in the slot. I just don't think CB is as big a need as OL and WR are for this team right now.

But yes, we can always point to positions where they need improvement. Even the best teams know they're going to be losing good players at important positions and need to figure out how to restock the shelves.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Patriots have one of the best secondaries in the league with a clear #1 corner, now, everyone needs depth, but I'd say CB/S is more a late round throw a dart see what you get need, where the needs at basically every position but QB are more clearcut.

To me I'd say you're looking something like this going into the draft....
Order is based on roughly equivalent prospects, positions travel down.
Round 1 priority positions in order:
OT
WR
Edge

Early Round (2-3) priority positions
LB
TE
OC
DT

Mid/Late Round priority
HB
CB
S
OG

Now obviously if you get to round 3 and there is a premium corner, or you can get a DT in round 1 you think is the best player in the draft... sure, but I'd say hat is a rough estimate of position value mixed with need.

 

[NomarsFool]

We're now sitting at the #4 pick according to Tankathon. Yay us!

 

[tims4wins]

We're now sitting at the #4 pick according to Tankathon. Yay us!

Could be #2 if Jax and Cincy win tonight!

 

[BigSoxFan]

We're now sitting at the #4 pick according to Tankathon. Yay us!

With games against the Jags, Titans, Bears, and Rams looming in the coming weeks. Lots of important tankeriffic matchups.

 

[DJnVa]

Of course trading back and grabbing extra picks would be nice but it's really too early to start with the permutations because this NFL season is crazy af and we have no idea how the big board is gonna look in 6-7 months. In my eyes, it's an OT all the way, with playmakers after that. I just think it's tough to judge our skill guys until there's time to get them the ball.

Travis Hunter would be fun, but it's a lot less fun if he's running routes and looking back to see Maye getting sacked again.

 

[SMU_Sox]

I said this in the other thread about the OL but the move almost has to be take the LT or trade back and take the LT. And honestly they might need to go use at least one day 2 pick on OL too given that they really need 2 OTs most likely.

Let’s hope that Robinson or Sow gets good enough in pass pro where we feel like at least the guard spots, including Onwenu, are where they need to be. It’s also a good year to invest in a center.

My early favorite is Ersery for us. I like Banks but I don’t think he’s a scheme fit. I need to watch more of Will Campbell because his tape last year vs top competition was like not draftable. That’s mostly due to age differences but still… yikes.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

Patriots have one of the best secondaries in the league with a clear #1 corner, now, everyone needs depth, but I'd say CB/S is more a late round throw a dart see what you get need, where the needs at basically every position but QB are more clearcut.

To me I'd say you're looking something like this going into the draft....
Order is based on roughly equivalent prospects, positions travel down.
Round 1 priority positions in order:
OT
WR
Edge

Early Round (2-3) priority positions
LB
TE
OC
DT

Mid/Late Round priority
HB
CB
S
OG

Now obviously if you get to round 3 and there is a premium corner, or you can get a DT in round 1 you think is the best player in the draft... sure, but I'd say hat is a rough estimate of position value mixed with need.

Jonathan Jones is going to be a 32 year old UFA and Austin/Marco Wilson like hot garbage.

really can’t see how it’s not a round 2-3 consideration. Certainly over off ball
LB and TE (where Henry is fine for at least 2025 presumably if not 2026 as well).

That said, I seem to be in the minority when it comes to having a fairly pessimistic view of the Pats secondary so YMMV. But other than Gonzalez, I don’t think anyone on the roster is a good bet to be above average in coverage in 2025 or 2026.

It does seem like a place to spend money in free agency at least I doubt Wolf will (beyond the inevitable Jonathan Jones 3 year extension)

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

I seem to be in the minority when it comes to having a fairly pessimistic view of the Pats secondary so YMMV... really can’t see how it’s not a round 2-3 consideration.

Well, you got me thinking about the secondary a little more and I watched the Jets game with your posts in mind. (That was not a night that anyone was getting covered in glory)

Perhaps the common ground is that you almost always want to draft the best player available, at position of need.

I'm still holding on to the pipe dream where we end up with a top 5 pick, and then trade down so we can end up with a couple of picks in the mid-late first and a couple in the mid-late second. If we could end up with five picks over the first three rounds, we'd be in a position to address a bunch of needs. And in that scenario it's easy to imagine the team taking a high-upside CB on the first day while also taking a first-round OT, an X-receiver, etc.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Well, you got me thinking about the secondary a little more and I watched the Jets game with your posts in mind. (That was not a night that anyone was getting covered in glory)

Perhaps the common ground is that you almost always want to draft the best player available, at position of need.

I'm still holding on to the pipe dream where we end up with a top 5 pick, and then trade down so we can end up with a couple of picks in the mid-late first and a couple in the mid-late second. If we could end up with five picks over the first three rounds, we'd be in a position to address a bunch of needs. And in that scenario it's easy to imagine the team taking a high-upside CB on the first day while also taking a first-round OT, an X-receiver, etc.

So one thing I would note here... it's very difficult to get two firsts in the same draft by trading down, teams just don't have them. It's almost always going to be a 2nd, if you get a 1st it's in a future year.
Right now no team has multiple 1sts to trade (only 2 teams have multiple 2nds). So they would have to try to acquire a 1st, then flip it.... pretty rare.

 

[tims4wins]

So one thing I would note here... it's very difficult to get two firsts in the same draft by trading down, teams just don't have them. It's almost always going to be a 2nd, if you get a 1st it's in a future year.
Right now no team has multiple 1sts to trade (only 2 teams have multiple 2nds). So they would have to try to acquire a 1st, then flip it.... pretty rare.

Right, what you're really looking for is like 4 for 8, 40, and a 2026 1st or 2nd rounder

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

So one thing I would note here... it's very difficult to get two firsts in the same draft by trading down

No doubt

So, a happy pipe dream to have while the draft is still seven months away...

 

[SMU_Sox]

We're talking offensive tackle in two threads and I am debating which one is more appropriate. Here or the down in the trenches one. I think I am going to stick to here.

View: https://twitter.com/nickkendellmhh/status/1838988114305651185?s=46&t=kvYWuq6n2wZg-KCGv0fpWg


This is my worry... the OTs at the top this year didn't look as good coming into the year as the 2024 class did in 2023 and while I haven't had the chance to watch the 2024 all-22 tape yet I have seen some hairy stuff from Campbell. It's just not the same caliber of class as it was last year.

There is a silver lining here though. Because this is not as good of a class at the top it would fit them to trade down and get more picks if they do end up with another top 5-6 pick.

 

[Cellar-Door]

We're talking offensive tackle in two threads and I am debating which one is more appropriate. Here or the down in the trenches one. I think I am going to stick to here.

View: https://twitter.com/nickkendellmhh/status/1838988114305651185?s=46&t=kvYWuq6n2wZg-KCGv0fpWg


This is my worry... the OTs at the top this year didn't look as good coming into the year as the 2024 class did in 2023 and while I haven't had the chance to watch the 2024 all-22 tape yet I have seen some hairy stuff from Campbell. It's just not the same caliber of class as it was last year.

There is a silver lining here though. Because this is not as good of a class at the top it would fit them to trade down and get more picks if they do end up with another top 5-6 pick.

I think draft OTs go here, current roster OTs in the other.

One other possibility is... if people are really down of the class, might have the opportunity to move UP from early 2nd to late 1st and use their own 1st for another position stud (McMillan, Burden, Graham, Carter, Johnson, Morrison, Williams, etc.), dream scenario, if you finish poorly enough is that you could maybe trade down, then back up (so say they get the #2, someone is desperate, you move down to 6, 7, 8 grab a blue chipper, use part of the trade return with your 2nd to move up into the 20s for the last of the OTs.)

 

[Cellar-Door]

Jonathan Jones is going to be a 32 year old UFA and Austin/Marco Wilson like hot garbage.

really can’t see how it’s not a round 2-3 consideration. Certainly over off ball
LB and TE (where Henry is fine for at least 2025 presumably if not 2026 as well).

That said, I seem to be in the minority when it comes to having a fairly pessimistic view of the Pats secondary so YMMV. But other than Gonzalez, I don’t think anyone on the roster is a good bet to be above average in coverage in 2025 or 2026.

It does seem like a place to spend money in free agency at least I doubt Wolf will (beyond the inevitable Jonathan Jones 3 year extension)

My general feeling is that the secondary is solid enough now, and you have the key piece you'd be looking for in early rounds in Gonzalez. Maybe we're a bit spoiled by the Bellichick years and it will change, but generally we haven't had much trouble finding 2nd/3rd/4th corners in the later rounds and FA, and it is a position with some FA depth usually because only #1 CBs get locked up early. So to me, unless you are looking at top tier early 1st guys I'd rather wait or use FA. In terms of LB, I put that mostly because the position has been a bit devalued in the draft so in the 2nd/3rd you can often get potential blue-chippers, where at CB you're looking at the 2nd/3rd tier guys, potential bluechippers go top 15.

 

[SMU_Sox]

COVID and NIL have impacted the last 3-4 years of drafts. 2021 was an incredibly small pool of people but at least had into the teens of good picks. 2022 was average but no QBs and it thinned out a little earlier than you want. 2023 it thinned out early again and the offensive talent was sub-par. 2024 was probably the best year in a while for offense but it was a down year defensively and now the 2025 draft looks...


View: https://twitter.com/JimNagy_SB/status/1840716754114523614


Nagy: Spoke to four NFL execs past week and all said same thing about upcoming 2025 draft, there's an of sure-fire first rounders this year. Amount of Round 1 grades in most drafts is in mid-teens & good drafts tend to have low-20's. Based on these convos, there's less than 10 consensus first-rounders right now at this point of fall scouting process.

And these are going to be a couple WRs + defensive prospects and maybe a QB or two. Not. Offensive. Line.

View: https://twitter.com/mikerenner_/status/1840738992049762463

Renner: The position that really sticks out to me here is offensive line Hope you drafted one last year because I doubt I’ll have more than 2 first round grades in the class and could be fewer.

It's easier to find a LT than a QB but damn...

 

[Cellar-Door]

I'm really torn on Banks. Sometimes I look at him and see a strong LT prospect, I'm not worried about the body really, plenty of 6'4" LTs are really good, especially since it looks like he has long arms.
Then sometimes I see bad balance and feet that are just a little slow/heavy.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

We're talking offensive tackle in two threads and I am debating which one is more appropriate. Here or the down in the trenches one. I think I am going to stick to here.

View: https://twitter.com/nickkendellmhh/status/1838988114305651185?s=46&t=kvYWuq6n2wZg-KCGv0fpWg


This is my worry... the OTs at the top this year didn't look as good coming into the year as the 2024 class did in 2023 and while I haven't had the chance to watch the 2024 all-22 tape yet I have seen some hairy stuff from Campbell. It's just not the same caliber of class as it was last year.

There is a silver lining here though. Because this is not as good of a class at the top it would fit them to trade down and get more picks if they do end up with another top 5-6 pick.

For a team bereft of talent, passing on a great non-OT prospect to take a decent LT prospect would be a bitter pill to swallow

Yeah they need a T desperately. Yeah, you need to take one early probably. But passing on a true blue chip prospect to take a tackle and get some picks in a trade down scenario isn’t really ideal either.

too bad there isn’t an Alt type tackle in this draft (someone genuinely worthy of a top 5-7 pick). Don’t think Ersery or Banks gets there and Campbell has been surprisingly underwhelming thus far

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

For a team bereft of talent, passing on a great non-OT prospect to take a decent LT prospect would be a bitter pill to swallow

Yeah

To put this another way: the only position the Pats more or less can't draft in the first round is QB

After that, I think you take the most impactful player in whatever the top tier of prospects available is that you're looking at. If that steers you to a DL like Mason Graham or a CB like Will Johnson, you do it. We're not one or two pieces away. We need to maximize the number of All Pros on the roster a few years down the road.

 

[SMU_Sox]

Brugler confirming today on the Athletic pod what I also saw: the top guys like Campbell, Banks, and even Ersery are viewed as OGs by many teams and not OTs. I'm not trying to toot my own horn here but there is a certain gravitas to when a guy like Brugler says it vs some rando dude on a message board. Sucks though . Then again we need a starting guard too, I think? So much depends on Strange's health and if Sow and Robinson develop.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Brugler confirming today on the Athletic pod what I also saw: the top guys like Campbell, Banks, and even Ersery are viewed as OGs by many teams and not OTs. I'm not trying to toot my own horn here but there is a certain gravitas to when a guy like Brugler says it vs some rando dude on a message board. Sucks though . Then again we need a starting guard too, I think? So much depends on Strange's health and if Sow and Robinson develop.

I thought he was a little softer than that, more "better at guard" than "not a tackle". I found his Cameron Williams take interesting. I'd heard some talk about team scouts who saw Jones as better than Campbell, had not heard the idea of Williams as not only a 1st, but ahead of Banks.

 

[SMU_Sox]

Me either on Williams. The like him better at guard to me is code for more likely a guard and less likely to actually be a tackle at the next level or we don't see him as a first round caliber tackle but we think he is a first round caliber guard. If you're drafting a guy and you think they are an average at best tackle but could be a pro bowl caliber or at least very high level caliber guard you probably put them at guard. But that's how I interpret it. I don't think they aren't OTs in a black and white sense but I do think they are "better at guard"... perhaps much better too.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Me either on Williams. The like him better at guard to me is code for more likely a guard and less likely to actually be a tackle at the next level or we don't see him as a first round caliber tackle but we think he is a first round caliber guard. If you're drafting a guy and you think they are an average at best tackle but could be a pro bowl caliber or at least very high level caliber guard you probably put them at guard. But that's how I interpret it. I don't think they aren't OTs in a black and white sense but I do think they are "better at guard"... perhaps much better too.

yeh definitely true.
I just wonder sometimes because you get guys like Rashawn Slater where that was a knock on him. I think there is sometimes a tendency to take every guy without prototype measurements and say "better inside", which I think is bad on 2 fronts:
1. Some guys are really good without prototype measurements.
2. As we noted with Skoronski... the assumption a tackle will be a good guard is sketchy.

I do think all these guys have real concerns, my hope is as we get closer to the draft with more tape people start getting into WHY they think he's better inside, because to me often "better inside" is just scouts hedging their eval on a guy.

 

[SMU_Sox]

yeh definitely true.
I just wonder sometimes because you get guys like Rashawn Slater where that was a knock on him. I think there is sometimes a tendency to take every guy without prototype measurements and say "better inside", which I think is bad on 2 fronts:
1. Some guys are really good without prototype measurements.
2. As we noted with Skoronski... the assumption a tackle will be a good guard is sketchy.

I do think all these guys have real concerns, my hope is as we get closer to the draft with more tape people start getting into WHY they think he's better inside, because to me often "better inside" is just scouts hedging their eval on a guy.

I thought Slater was a tackle. I didn’t think Skoronski would be able to play tackle at a more than average at best level because he lacked height, wingspan, and length. Campbell has the height but the rumor is his length is close to 32” and you definitely see that on tape.

I was lower on Skoronski than consensus. He was my 23rd overall guy. My issue with him was he lacked a good enough anchor for an OG and he wasn’t the most powerful guy. Sometimes guys have body types or skill sets that are a lot better in college than the pros and it seems like that might be true for him. Hopefully as the year goes on with coaching he gets better at OG. It can take a few years to learn a new position.
It’s not just the prototype measurements to me. It’s if you see certain issues pop up on tape or not. With Slater I wasn’t really concerned. With Campbell I am.

 

[SMU_Sox]

For Banks: he has a very good anchor and he has a lot of power and good length. He just lacks lateral quickness in pass protection and is a little stiff. That is perfect for OG. He is best as a gap/power or downhill run scheme OG. His traits translate well to OG.

For Campbell it is more hit or miss there because his anchor is also iffy. He has natural burst and athleticism and very quick feet so he can be a zone scheme OG. His anchor is his biggest concern in pass pro. His length issues are mitigated as an OG.

For Ersery it's does he have enough depth in his kick slides, can he cover enough ground in pass pro (he also has underdeveloped UoH) but he is an excellent zone run blocker (best in class). If you put him inside he doesn't have to cover a ton of ground and he can use his size and length to seal people off. He also has a good anchor (usually unless speed to power guys get under his pads).

 

[Cellar-Door]

I thought Slater was a tackle. I didn’t think Skoronski would be able to play tackle at a more than average at best level because he lacked height, wingspan, and length. Campbell has the height but the rumor is his length is close to 32” and you definitely see that on tape.

I was lower on Skoronski than consensus. He was my 23rd overall guy. My issue with him was he lacked a good enough anchor for an OG and he wasn’t the most powerful guy. Sometimes guys have body types or skill sets that are a lot better in college than the pros and it seems like that might be true for him. Hopefully as the year goes on with coaching he gets better at OG. It can take a few years to learn a new position.
It’s not just the prototype measurements to me. It’s if you see certain issues pop up on tape or not. With Slater I wasn’t really concerned. With Campbell I am.

Yeah, I don't mean to say there aren't reasons, just I like it when people give them. As to Slater, I know you saw him as a tackle, but "maybe better" or even "some teams think he has to move inside" was part of his scouting report most places. Just looked him up on Zeirlein's to make sure I wasn't mis-remembering and it was under his weaknesses. I think there are always degrees to it.

 

[SMU_Sox]

Yeah, I don't mean to say there aren't reasons, just I like it when people give them. As to Slater, I know you saw him as a tackle, but "maybe better" or even "some teams think he has to move inside" was part of his scouting report most places. Just looked him up on Zeirlein's to make sure I wasn't mis-remembering and it was under his weaknesses. I think there are always degrees to it.

That is fair. I think there is definitely wiggle room for a lot of guys and I know folks like SN advocate to try them at OT and if they fail there then try them elsewhere. That usually works for me but for some guys I like them so much more at one spot I would rather just put them there first. For example, I wouldn’t have bothered trying Cody Mauch at tackle. I would have put him at OG or OC right away.

 

[dynomite]

Yeah

To put this another way: the only position the Pats more or less can't draft in the first round is QB

After that, I think you take the most impactful player in whatever the top tier of prospects available is that you're looking at. If that steers you to a DL like Mason Graham or a CB like Will Johnson, you do it. We're not one or two pieces away. We need to maximize the number of All Pros on the roster a few years down the road.

This is a good point, and -- while again not knowing which thread this belongs in -- I'm interested how @SMU_Sox and others view these prospects vs. the likely LT free agents.

The silver lining of the Patriots being this bad is they'll have both high draft picks and a lot of cap room and can outbid most other teams if they want someone.

So if they do end up drafting a DL or CB at the top of the draft, they could address LT in free agency. Here's the list I'm seeing: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/_/year/2025/position/lt/sort/contract_value

PFF likes what Ronnie Stanley is doing in Baltimore I think, and it looks like he stayed with them on a 1-year deal. He's older than ideal but could be a solid stopgap if needed. Etc.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

It's a good question

@SMU_Sox and others can speak for themselves, and with greater knowledge/authority than I've got. I got no particular qualification for talking about football. Just been putting up with the Pats since the late 70s, with this weird intermission where we were really good for >20 years. Which a part of me was always prepared to have go away on short notice because, honestly, we all know that under the surface the Pats are lovable losers, right? Right?

So I've seen some shit. And then a bunch of undeserved miracles. And now some shit again. And folks who know more than me have said that a bunch of NFL teams think this coming draft has first-round-level talent until somewhere in the early-mid 20s. And I hear that and think "Well, get me that future All Pro at whatever position, provided you're taking the guy whose going to have the most impact" and then use our second-round pick on second-round talent.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

This is a good point, and -- while again not knowing which thread this belongs in -- I'm interested how @SMU_Sox and others view these prospects vs. the likely LT free agents.

The silver lining of the Patriots being this bad is they'll have both high draft picks and a lot of cap room and can outbid most other teams if they want someone.

So if they do end up drafting a DL or CB at the top of the draft, they could address LT in free agency. Here's the list I'm seeing: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/_/year/2025/position/lt/sort/contract_value

PFF likes what Ronnie Stanley is doing in Baltimore I think, and it looks like he stayed with them on a 1-year deal. He's older than ideal but could be a solid stopgap if needed. Etc.

They had tons of cap room and high picks last year and, other than the obvious (Maye) did nothing to improve the roster.

It seems like their strategy is bargain bin vets and build through the draft. It seems unlikely they’ll dabble in the top or middle parts veteran free agent market where guys like Stanley will get overpaid.

I would expect another round of Armon Watts, Leverett and Okorafor types and any improvement to the OL coming internally or from the draft.

 

[BigSoxFan]

They had tons of cap room and high picks last year and, other than the obvious (Maye) did nothing to improve the roster.

It seems like their strategy is bargain bin vets and build through the draft. It seems unlikely they’ll dabble in the top or middle parts veteran free agent market where guys like Stanley will get overpaid.

I would expect another round of Armon Watts, Leverett and Okorafor types and any improvement to the OL coming internally or from the draft.

In fairness, they went after some higher profile targets but they were never going to land any of them without an obscene overpay.

 

[dynomite]

They had tons of cap room and high picks last year and, other than the obvious (Maye) did nothing to improve the roster.

It seems like their strategy is bargain bin vets and build through the draft. It seems unlikely they’ll dabble in the top or middle parts veteran free agent market where guys like Stanley will get overpaid.

I would expect another round of Armon Watts, Leverett and Okorafor types and any improvement to the OL coming internally or from the draft.

In fairness, they went after some higher profile targets but they were never going to land any of them without an obscene overpay.

Right, I think things will (hopefully) be different going into 2025 than they were going into 2024. This was always going to be a rebuilding year, whereas in 2025 per OverTheCap the Pats are projected to have the most cap space in the League at ~$120M -- per this Reddit thread they've been as high as 4th and 6th in the league in cap spending in recent years (although generally they aren't the top spending franchise): https://www.reddit.com/r/Patriots/comments/1b0najn/oc_patriots_cash_spending_during_the_robert/

Especially given that Kraft's time as owner is running short, I expect they will spend some money -- hopefully Maye will look so good this year that free agents will by desperate to join the Pats this offseason...

 

[NextBigThing8184]

In fairness, they went after some higher profile targets but they were never going to land any of them without an obscene overpay.

Why would that change moving forward? If you’re not willing to “obscenely overpay” you’re probably not going to land top of the market guys because those guys are almost never a bargain. It’s meaningless to “go after” guys if you’re not willing to seal the deal.

Being obsessed with getting value in free agency is a fool’s errand. You end up getting a bunch of trash for the same amount as the “overpay” to land a singular good player.

I think the Pats would have been better off upping an offer to (e.g.) Ridley by 20M (or whatever) than paying the aggregate 20M for Hooper, Okorafor, Takitaki, Watts and Osborn. The team needs talent infused at the top of the roster, and you’re probably only going to land 1 of those per draft class on average. So unless they’re willing to obscenely overpay for guys, I don’t see how this roster gets decidedly better within the next few years

Paying $3M to upgrade from practice squad caliber guy to a guy like Hooper or Osborn or Watts seems like a waste given where the Pats are now. It’s literally wasting money to improve at the margins when the core is so devoid of average let alone top tier talent.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Why would that change moving forward? If you’re not willing to “obscenely overpay” you’re probably not going to land top of the market guys because those guys are almost never a bargain. It’s meaningless to “go after” guys if you’re not willing to seal the deal.

Being obsessed with getting value in free agency is a fool’s errand. You end up getting a bunch of trash for the same amount as the “overpay” to land a singular good player.

I think the Pats would have been better off upping an offer to (e.g.) Ridley by 20M (or whatever) than paying the aggregate 20M for Hooper, Okorafor, Takitaki, Watts and Osborn. The team needs talent infused at the top of the roster, and you’re probably only going to land 1 of those per draft class on average. So unless they’re willing to obscenely overpay for guys, I don’t see how this roster gets decidedly better within the next few years

Paying $3M to upgrade from practice squad caliber guy to a guy like Hooper or Osborn or Watts seems like a waste given where the Pats are now. It’s literally wasting money to improve at the margins when the core is so devoid of average let alone top tier talent.

It changes when the Pats organization stops being a dumpster fire, which admittedly could be a while. Right now, everything rests on Maye. If he plays well, you have a path to viability. If he doesn’t, you’re in purgatory. There is a definite need for top talent, especially on offense, but overpaying older non-elite guys like Calvin Ridley is a bad idea. If Tee Higgins breaks free this year, make a real run at him.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

I think this is an important and valuable conversation. Also, does a mod mind moving all the "how realistic is it that the Pats can sign a half-decent free agent next summer?" posts to one of our free agency threads?