2024 WNBA Playoffs

[reggiecleveland]

It’s a physical game, folks. Didn’t Clark hit Carrington in the face later, knocking her contact out?

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-xAJKzNHMmk


One could argue there appears to be intent if you watch the slo-mo of it.

They can both be wrong. Both are dirty plays in my opinion. Once again I prefer FIBA reffing where any blow to the head is foul. In FIBA both of those are probably unsportsmanlike fouls since contact to the head was made, (2 and the ball). Pretty simple. Don't hit people in the face. This is similar to the NHL getting rid of hits from behind, NFL stopping helmet to helmet hits. Put the responsibility on the players. I have change how I coach since certain things like swim technique gong to Oboards, sweeping your arm up while fighting over a screen are not worth the risk of hitting your opponent in the face.

And for "It’s a physical game, folks" a big problem is Clark's teammates never stick up for her. If I was the Fever I would spend the off season looking for an enforcer, probably two.


As for the celebration this part mimicking hitting somebody in the eye is suspicious, and I never thought it was anything but the end of the game.

 

[scottyno]

They can both be wrong. Both are dirty plays in my opinion. Once again I prefer FIBA reffing where any blow to the head is foul. In FIBA both of those are probably unsportsmanlike fouls since contact to the head was made, (2 and the ball). Pretty simple. Don't hit people in the face. This is similar to the NHL getting rid of hits from behind, NFL stopping helmet to helmet hits. Put the responsibility on the players. I have change how I coach since certain things like swim technique gong to Oboards, sweeping your arm up while fighting over a screen are not worth the risk of hitting your opponent in the face.

And for "It’s a physical game, folks" a big problem is Clark's teammates never stick up for her. If I was the Fever I would spend the off season looking for an enforcer, probably two.


As for the celebration this part mimicking hitting somebody in the eye is suspicious, and I never thought it was anything but the end of the game.
View attachment 89110

They're doing the Carmelo 3 point finger to the head celebration. You know... because she just hit a 3 pointer

Or you could somehow make the logic leap that they're celebrating poking someone in the eye from like an hour ago

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Well said.

WNBA subscribes to the Eye for an Eye theory of justice,

 

[amh03]

They can both be wrong. Both are dirty plays in my opinion.

Ah, but which is being talked about? Google almost anything related to the WNBA this week and it’s primarily about how Clark was so wronged with that hit. Even here, there was no mention until my post about the one on Carrington.

That's pretty much been the case all season long. Any time Clark is touched it seems to generate comparisons to Draymond Green and an onslaught of calls to suspend whoever did it.

I don’t disagree that both might warrant a foul call, although “dirty plays”, imho, should include some level of intent and I can’t be sure either/both of these had that.

As for calls for an enforcer - I actually think Clark can take care of herself. She’s not some petite woman who needs protection from the big bad W players. These interactions happen in every game to all the players. This rush to “protect“ her is…unnecessary, again, in my opinion.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

It’s a physical game, folks. Didn’t Clark hit Carrington in the face later, knocking her contact out?

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-xAJKzNHMmk


One could argue there appears to be intent if you watch the slo-mo of it.

Clarks had much more of the “Draymond flail” than the hit on Clark did earlier.

 

[Merkle's Boner]

Something that is difficult to talk about around this, but I think interesting, is the fact that Dijonai and Fever player Nalyssa Smith are dating. It’s a fascinating dynamic that is, I presume, unique to the WNBA. I have to imagine the locker room convo can get tense if too many Fever players are calling out Carrington. I love her game and think she’s just a really aggressive defender, and I think the Sun are at their best with her in the floor.

 

[reggiecleveland]

Ah, but which is being talked about? Google almost anything related to the WNBA this week and it’s primarily about how Clark was so wronged with that hit. Even here, there was no mention until my post about the one on Carrington.

That's pretty much been the case all season long. Any time Clark is touched it seems to generate comparisons to Draymond Green and an onslaught of calls to suspend whoever did it.

I don’t disagree that both might warrant a foul call, although “dirty plays”, imho, should include some level of intent and I can’t be sure either/both of these had that.

As for calls for an enforcer - I actually think Clark can take care of herself. She’s not some petite woman who needs protection from the big bad W players. These interactions happen in every game to all the players. This rush to “protect“ her is…unnecessary, again, in my opinion.

You tend to go beyond what I write and insert your own strawman to characterize my ideas to have the argument you want, or to paint me a particular way. It is getting tiresome. I have no way insinuated she is a "some petite woman who needs protection" and resent that implication. In this forum I have repeatedly stated my love for the toughness, lack of flopping, and strategic brilliance of WNBA coaches. I compare WNBA players to NBA players as greats to greats. I have not once diminished the players or the league because they are women. To suggest that is insulting, and I expect more of this place.

I had written a pretty long and detailed discussion of the points, but I don't think you will read it carefully. I would love to have basketball discussions, but I am tired of you accusing me of having whatever Caitlin Clark opinion most offends you rather than reading what i actually write.

 

[Merkle's Boner]

You tend to go beyond what I write and insert your own strawman to characterize my ideas to have the argument you want, or to paint me a particular way. It is getting tiresome. I have no way insinuated she is a "some petite woman who needs protection" and resent that implication. In this forum I have repeatedly stated my love for the toughness, lack of flopping, and strategic brilliance of WNBA coaches. I compare WNBA players to NBA players as greats to greats. I have not once diminished the players or the league because they are women. To suggest that is insulting, and I expect more of this place.

I had written a pretty long and detailed discussion of the points, but I don't think you will read it carefully. I would love to have basketball discussions, but I am tired of you accusing me of having whatever Caitlin Clark opinion most offends you rather than reading what i actually write.

To be fair, we were only talking about the foul on Caitlin. If I recall correctly, while Carrington was looking for her contact lens (which btw no way am I putting my lens back in my eye after it’s been on a gym floor lol) she can be heard telling the ref that if that was done by anyone else it would be a foul.

And you were the one who said the Fever weren’t sticking up for her and that they needed to find someone to do that for next season. It is reasonable to assume that you maybe think Caitlin can’t stick up for herself.
And personally I don’t believe anyone was thinking about a random play in the first half when they were celebrating a big win after the game was over.

 

[amh03]

You tend to go beyond what I write and insert your own strawman to characterize my ideas to have the argument you want, or to paint me a particular way. It is getting tiresome. I have no way insinuated she is a "some petite woman who needs protection" and resent that implication. In this forum I have repeatedly stated my love for the toughness, lack of flopping, and strategic brilliance of WNBA coaches. I compare WNBA players to NBA players as greats to greats. I have not once diminished the players or the league because they are women. To suggest that is insulting, and I expect more of this place.

I had written a pretty long and detailed discussion of the points, but I don't think you will read it carefully. I would love to have basketball discussions, but I am tired of you accusing me of having whatever Caitlin Clark opinion most offends you rather than reading what i actually write.

You're drawing a conclusion that I didn't make. I quoted your comment because it was the most recent, but you're not the only one who has called for an enforcer for Clark - in this forum and elsewhere. If I was directing my comment about "some petite woman" directly to you - I would have said as much. Instead I said - more broadly - "as for calls for an enforcer"....

Nothing personal intended, @reggiecleveland...

 

[OCST]

I thought one of the most interesting and productive coaching moves was having Fiebich start over Vandersloot. Fiebich going 5-5 in the first half of that Liberty game plus her D…damn!!

Fiebich deserves the nod. Vds is 35. Of course she’s still a very good player but Feibich has played well down the stretch & I like what she brings for the playoffs.

 

[scottyno]

Fever game 1.84 million viewers, most watched wnba playoff game since 2000. The other 3 games about 1.3 million combined

 

[amh03]

Fiebich deserves the nod. Vds is 35. Of course she’s still a very good player but Feibich has played well down the stretch & I like what she brings for the playoffs.

Totally agree!! She’s also interesting as she’s labeled a rookie this year (or signed a rookie contract?) but has the Olympic experience…

I also really enjoyed Tiffany Hayes’ contributions in the win for the Aces. That was quite a game! Apparently her mom flew out for the game…first time on a plane?! Pretty cool story with her coming out of retirement to play for the Aces…and look at her….

So many great stories!! One of the things I am really enjoying is that the size of the league allows you to familiarize yourself with all of the teams, pretty much, and many of the players….

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Fever game 1.84 million viewers, most watched wnba playoff game since 2000. The other 3 games about 1.3 million combined

They get the stage to themselves the next two nights. Going up against an NFL Sunday is ratings suicide.

 

[InstaFace]

They get the stage to themselves the next two nights. Going up against an NFL Sunday is ratings suicide.

The Aces-Storm game was frankly more entertaining than Sunday Night Football, which I had in a second screen. Closer match, lots of mental toughness on display, to say nothing of the bigger stakes (or the literally nonstop political ads during NFL timeouts).

 

[pantsparty]

She’s also interesting as she’s labeled a rookie this year

She was drafted a few years ago but stayed in overseas until this year. I don't know the exact mechanics, but my sense is that the WNBA has similar draft and stash rules for foreign players as the NBA does.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

The Aces-Storm game was frankly more entertaining than Sunday Night Football, which I had in a second screen. Closer match, lots of mental toughness on display, to say nothing of the bigger stakes (or the literally nonstop political ads during NFL timeouts).

My point was that causal fans didn’t even know it was on not that it wasn’t entertaining.

 

[reggiecleveland]

Sticking up for te

You're drawing a conclusion that I didn't make. I quoted your comment because it was the most recent, but you're not the only one who has called for an enforcer for Clark - in this forum and elsewhere. If I was directing my comment about "some petite woman" directly to you - I would have said as much. Instead I said - more broadly - "as for calls for an enforcer"....

Nothing personal intended, @reggiecleveland...

With Thomas, Odada, Fall and Jones the Sun may have the physically toughest forward group. The Fever need somebody to stand up and win physical battles on the boards with them. The sun just dominated physically, they smacked th eother teams star in the eye (accidental or not) and nobody batted an eye, the star herself was thrashing around like an angry child. That was about as bad an old timeplayoff physical, psychological asskicking as you are going to see. I do not see the players on the Fever to turn that around. Fagbenle and Dantas are nice bench pieces but neither can physically hang with the Sun group.

Her teammates need to do something. even like this. A'ja doesn't doubt her teammates are with her, and the refs and everyone else are clear this was a big deal.
https://www.tiktok.com/@wnbagotgame/video/7268616639120362798

My main point is I believe Clark flailing at Carrington could have been avoided if
1. If the refs call Carrington hitting her in the eye. Be like FIBA , you hit somebody in the face you get a foul, probably an unsportsmanlike (FYI two of those, or one combined with a tech your suspended next game)

2. If Clark's team responded, even overreacts to her being hit in the eye.

 

[Merkle's Boner]

Helluva start for the Dream. Didn’t see that coming.

 

[amh03]

Helluva start for the Dream. Didn’t see that coming.

Gray is dialed in!! She’s fun!!

 

[Bunt4aTriple]

Helluva start for the Dream. Didn’t see that coming.

Turned around quick.

 

[Merkle's Boner]

Dream ain’t going away quietly. My son is at the game and says the atmosphere is awesome.

 

[OCST]

ATL shot 57% I the first half. Sandy B and I said the same thing- they can’t keep that up the whole game.

 

[OCST]

ATL finished the third strong but NY up 1 and the dream are visibly tiring.

 

[Merkle's Boner]

Ionescu totally took this game over. Very impressive.

 

[amh03]

Ionescu totally took this game over. Very impressive.

For sure…she was not going to miss…a very fun game!

Now, onto Aces/Storm…

 

[Zereck]

Aces - Liberty to square off again, this time in the semis. Should be a great series!

 

[amh03]

Aces - Liberty to square off again, this time in the semis. Should be a great series!

Feel like this matchup should be the finals…this is a best in 5 series, right? Liberty are going to be tough to beat, I think…can’t wait!

 

[Zereck]

Feel like this matchup should be the finals…this is a best in 5 series, right? Liberty are going to be tough to beat, I think…can’t wait!

Yes, the semis are a best of 5. I lean slightly toward the Aces, but obviously either team could win. The Aces slept walk through the regular season in a lot of ways and Chelsea Gray was working herself back from injury.

Whoever wins should be the favorite, but don’t sleep on Minnesota. Phee had a phenomenal season that was MVP level in any other year but A’Ja was on another planet. Minnesota can shoot the lights out, if they get hot in a 5 games series watch out. This is assuming they advance, because Connecticut is tough too haha.

 

[BaseballJones]

As much as I hope CT - and even Minnesota (I'm a huge Collier fan) - can win it all, barring some huge injury issues, the winner of NY-LV will win it all. Too bad it's the semis because that should be a great series.

And CT isn't through to the semis yet. I expect Indiana to put up a hell of a fight tonight. Clark won't shoot as poorly as she did in game 1, and I don't think we'll see Mabrey go off like she did in game 1. Plus, CT is dealing with their starting point guard's ankle injury. Won't at all be surprised if this goes to game 3 in Indy.

 

[amh03]

I agree with both of you, @Zereck & @BaseballJones.

Chelsea Gray has been getting better and better since the break...she's peaking at just the right time. I actually picked the Aces in my bracket w/friends...but Liberty just look unbeatable (I mean - Sabrina...c'mon!!)...so it'll all come down to execution.

I think the Lynx will take care of business against the Mercury and I'm hoping the Sun can emerge the winner in their match. But the Fever are not going to have the same game tonight that they had on Sunday! I hope Jones is able to contribute more...she hasn't had a good game, really since the match-up against the Mercury a couple of weeks ago. Should be very interesting pair of games tonight....

 

[OCST]

Ionescu getting hot sealed it for the Liberty, but once again doing the dirty work at both ends was Jones. She's a force of nature.

 

[Vandalman]

The Sun come out ice cold, going 1 for 11.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

The Sun come out ice cold, going 1 for 11.

Followed by an 11-0 run to end the 1Q.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

I really like that Keesusk uniform

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Helluva 4th quarter in Connecticut

 

[Van Everyman]

Fever pissed this away.

 

[BaseballJones]

I knew this would be a tough game. Glad the Sun pulled it out. Next round will be extremely difficult, but they've done well against Minnesota this year so maybe they can win the series.

Mabrey was exactly the addition that Connecticut needed. She's been humongous for them.

 

[amh03]

Quite a game…total team effort by the Sun.

 

[Montana Fan]

Fever pissed this away.

Connecticut ground them down. Great effort from both teams, CT is just deeper and more experienced.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

We Want The Cup!

 

[amh03]

The 2 announcers spoke at some length that Mitchell and Clark looked “gassed” having played the entire game without sitting. And it’s true…they did at a couple of points in the 4th (hell…I’d be gassed after 1 run down the court, lol)…but ya know who else was on the court for 40 minutes…32-year old/2 torn labrums Alyssa Thomas. How come no mention of her?

Anyway, good win for the Sun. I do wonder if next year we’ll see a 1-1-1 format, or as suggested upthread a best of 5 in the first round. I think if game 2 was in Indiana, the Fever would have prevailed.

 

[smokin joe wood]

The 2 announcers spoke at some length that Mitchell and Clark looked “gassed” having played the entire game without sitting. And it’s true…they did at a couple of points in the 4th (hell…I’d be gassed after 1 run down the court, lol)…but ya know who else was on the court for 40 minutes…32-year old/2 torn labrums Alyssa Thomas. How come no mention of her?

Because she didn't look gassed.

 

[riboflav]

EDIT: The reason the announcers didn't mention AT was because she wasn't gassed. Clark was. AT on the offensive end had the luxury of often standing alone on the perimeter or in the high post while her defender sank back into the lane. Why? Bc AT can't shoot. AT had a 19.6 usage rate. Meanwhile Clark spent the game on offense being chased by double teams and having one defender after another thrown at her while still being expected to make plays for everyone including herself, which she did. Her usage rate was 27.3. Different games lead to different results.

 

[reggiecleveland]

The 2 announcers spoke at some length that Mitchell and Clark looked “gassed” having played the entire game without sitting. And it’s true…they did at a couple of points in the 4th (hell…I’d be gassed after 1 run down the court, lol)…but ya know who else was on the court for 40 minutes…32-year old/2 torn labrums Alyssa Thomas. How come no mention of her?

If you had been at the pregame NBC meeting before Indiana State Michigan State and Don Ohlmeyer said the game was about "Bird vs Magic" you would have walked out in protest becasue of the disrespect to Rich Nemcek and Gerald Busby. "Why in god's name" you would yell as you slammed the door "should we promote the game around the two most popular players in decades?" You would rush to a payphone (google what a payphone is kid) in the lobby and phone the head of the network, "Hear me out, there were other good players in the past that nobody watched, so in the interest of justice lets make sure nobody new watches...Hello...hello, huh must have been cut off."

 

[scottyno]

If you had been at the pregame NBC meeting before Indiana State Michigan State and Don Ohlmeyer said the game was about "Bird vs Magic" you would have walked out in protest becasue of the disrespect to Rich Nemcek and Gerald Busby. "Why in god's name" you would yell as you slammed the door "should we promote the game around the two most popular players in decades?" You would rush to a payphone (google what a payphone is kid) in the lobby and phone the head of the network, "Hear me out, there were other good players in the past that nobody watched, so in the interest of justice lets make sure nobody new watches...Hello...hello, huh must have been cut off."

In this scenario is Kelsey Mitchell Bird or Magic?

 

[Plantiers Wart]

Neither. Clark is both.

 

[amh03]

Clark - 40 minutes/25 points/6 rebounds/9 assists/FG% 43.5

Mitchell - 40 minutes/17 points/3 rebounds/3 assists/FG% 38.9

Thomas - 40 minutes/19 points/5 rebounds/13 assists/FG% 52.9

 

[InstaFace]

Clark - 40 minutes/25 points/6 rebounds/9 assists/FG% 43.5

Mitchell - 40 minutes/17 points/3 rebounds/3 assists/FG% 38.9

Thomas - 40 minutes/19 points/5 rebounds/13 assists/FG% 52.9

Yeah, just because she wasn't the featured profile shot in their promotions of the game doesn't mean she didn't take it over at points and play her ass off out there. I dunno where reggie is getting the whole "pregame production meeting" thing, but that's totally distinct from your point about deserving a mention from announcers about how much of an impact she was making on the game (and perhaps her conditioning too).

Anyway, Clark hasn't had any time off in almost two years, arguably 3. Not since before she shot to stardom in her junior season at Iowa has she really had any time to breathe and recover, between junior national team duty in the summers and then rolling right from the NCAA tournament into the WNBA draft and now this season. I hope she makes appearances in the stands at a few remaining playoff games just to help promote the league, but either way after that I hope she disappears onto a beach somewhere for 2 months to recover from the sudden fame and following and grueling schedule she's been on.

I guess that also makes me wonder as to which players will play an offseason in Europe. Clark clearly makes enough to not have to, or even want to. And ever since the Ukraine war started and going to Russia (Which paid the most) isn't an option anymore, there aren't quite the same outsized paychecks on offer - some of them might get equal to their WNBA salaries going to Turkey or Italy, but they're not going to make a relative fortune. So I wonder if there will be a decline in players doing that and choosing to just rest up, live their lives, and prepare for next year.

 

[BaseballJones]

Because she didn't look gassed.

She is an absolute beast. I've never seen her even look tired.

 

[amh03]

...Anyway, Clark hasn't had any time off in almost two years, arguably 3. Not since before she shot to stardom in her junior season at Iowa has she really had any time to breathe and recover, between junior national team duty in the summers and then rolling right from the NCAA tournament into the WNBA draft and now this season. I hope she makes appearances in the stands at a few remaining playoff games just to help promote the league, but either way after that I hope she disappears onto a beach somewhere for 2 months to recover from the sudden fame and following and grueling schedule she's been on.

I guess that also makes me wonder as to which players will play an offseason in Europe. Clark clearly makes enough to not have to, or even want to. And ever since the Ukraine war started and going to Russia (Which paid the most) isn't an option anymore, there aren't quite the same outsized paychecks on offer - some of them might get equal to their WNBA salaries going to Turkey or Italy, but they're not going to make a relative fortune. So I wonder if there will be a decline in players doing that and choosing to just rest up, live their lives, and prepare for next year.

Totally agree...I think the rookies had something like 2 weeks from college ball to the W. It sounded like Clark was fine not being selected for the Olympics...I would imagine she needed some time off!

And towards the end of the game, they were discussing Clark's off-season plans...she's not expected to play in Europe (or elsewhere), nor is she lined up for the Unrivaled 3x3...sounds like she's going to probably take a break. Though someone like her, I'd imagine she'll be working on conditioning, etc...she doesn't seem like someone who's going to truly "take time off"...

I'm curious why the Rookie of the Year wasn't presented to her yet...will they do that at one of the other stages of the finals? I know the Commissioner presented A'ja with the MVP at their first game. I'm guessing because the Fever weren't in their home court, that's why they didn't do it at Mohegan. But, they should do something special....