i saw, my point is just the spirit of the original post is correct even if the actual scoring data is not great.
2024 NBA General Offseason Thread
- Thread starter DeadlySplitter
- Start date
I look forward to seeing Luka "best shape of his life" leading the MAVs #1 defense next season.
Don't mind me if I casually remind a few of you next season about our Summer chats
The fact is that nobody said Luka will be in the best shape of his life next season and lead the Mavs #1 defense. Those words were never typed in this forum, ever. People are grasping at marginal/weak/not ideal data to diminish Doncic as a player and others are pushing back at the arguments being made.
Fwiw, I expect them to take a step back off a big run which is common for the losing team of Finals in major sports. I'm referring to what occurred last season when Kidd had that team totally engaged following the deadline. There has been turnover already in losing Derrick Jones Jr and Josh Green. I think Klay will be ok but we don't know how he will respond to a completely different role without Curry for the first time in his career. Naji Marshall "should" fill Jones role if his 3-pt bump last year is real but I definitely don't expect them to fire out of the gate.I look forward to seeing Luka "best shape of his life" leading the MAVs #1 defense next season.
Don't mind me if I casually remind a few of you next season about our Summer chats
I was JK. It would be natural for them to have a step back after a big run through the WC.
Plus we'll see whether Nico's moves payoff. Not sure DJJ + Green to Klay + Naji is an upgrade but Nico hit gold once with signing a vet whose value was low (although Kryie's value was low for off-court, not on-court reasons) so what do I know maybe it'll be the move of the off-season.
I'd guess that we're not going to be talking about DAL's defence next year as best or close to best for any significant length of time but what do I know.
Good time to repost this from a few weeks back. The media has been buying his “best shape of his life” bullshit for years:I look forward to seeing Luka "best shape of his life" leading the MAVs #1 defense next season.
Don't mind me if I casually remind a few of you next season about our Summer chats
Ha. Several good pulls.
As much as some want to sell it, I'm not buying it.
#12ozCURLS
The refs ate their whistles for five games, and the Cs just traffic coned the guy. We all watched.
I still think that he's top10, probably top5, but this #1 nonsense is just that, nonsense. You can't be the best player in the world if you're a traffic cone. Doesn't matter how much people sing epic poems to his offensive skillset.
Apologies if I missed this, but Paul Reed got claimed off waivers by Detroit. I think he's got a lot of potential - hopefully the new leadership is prepared to nurture their guys. He could wind up being a 14th man like James Wiseman, but I'm curious to see if/hopeful he can turn into something more.
This is the last few pages of this thread in a nutshell---there's a group who agrees with the above (I'm in that group) and there's a group that feels he's justifiably in the top 2-3. I don't think anyone is arguing lower than top 10. There's metrics one can select from to support all of those, and a scouting-ish take to get you there as well.
I figure the Lakers are still riding the high of winning 2 of the last 4 offseasons.
At a glance, I like the over for the Magic. They won 47 last year, are young and should be better.
6 of the bottom 7 teams are in the east.
Danny is nothing if not consistent -- he is asking the Warriors to gut the future of the team if they want Markkanen. If I were the Warriors, I would be really reticent to move Kuminga -- I think he could turn into an excellent player -- but they have so few picks to trade, they might not have a choice if they're determined to "win now" to keep Steph happy. The other problem is that they won't really have a PG backup for Curry if they move Podz. As things stand now, I guess their rotations would look something like:
Curry-Hield-Wiggins-Draymond-Lauri
Lester Quinones-Melton-SloMo-TJD-Looney
Beekman-Spencer(?)-GPII-Santos(?)-Garuba(?)
Curry-Hield-Wiggins-Draymond-Lauri
Lester Quinones-Melton-SloMo-TJD-Looney
Beekman-Spencer(?)-GPII-Santos(?)-Garuba(?)
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5638084/2024/07/15/lauri-markkanen-brandon-ingram-trade-contract-latest-nba-notes/
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The path to a deal there feels like Danny taking on Wiggins to get Moody + Podz + picks. I am assuming that the Warriors would not do a deal that includes Kuminga but maybe.
IMO, there is no shot Utah does the Warriors the massive favor of taking on Wiggins without Kuminga being in the deal. That is an awful contract unless he miraculously pulls himself together; 3/~$86m (third year is a player option that I assume he'll pick up).
You may be right but by all accounts Kuminga is part of the Warriors core so they aren't trading him. A deal may not be possible but again, the most likely path is that a deal includes Wiggins but also a lot of draft capital.
Ainge already has a million picks. Also Golden State owes a 2030 pick to Washington so they really can only offer a 2025 and 2027 pick or a 2026 and 2028 pick.
The only point I am making is that if the Warriors won't deal Kuminga, a trade is only viable if the Jazz are willing to look at a package of their other young pieces plus draft capital. I was just looking at alternate ways to structure the deal.
Also, teams can and do roll over/swap draft capital , correct? It feels like there are other paths to a deal without Kuminga but maybe not.
If the Warriors aren't including Kuminga, I don't think there's a deal there.
And there is no way in hell Ainge is taking on Wiggins just to get Moody+Podz+picks. Honestly, I am not sure Moody+Podz+picks is enough straight up for Markkanen, let alone with taking on Wiggins to help out the Dubs
And there is no way in hell Ainge is taking on Wiggins just to get Moody+Podz+picks. Honestly, I am not sure Moody+Podz+picks is enough straight up for Markkanen, let alone with taking on Wiggins to help out the Dubs
This, no chance he expects anything less than a ransom per usual, and there are other teams better positioned to offer it. There was a similar sentiment around the Knicks and D. Mitchell at the time, a lot of smoke around him inevitably going there because they were the most aggressive publicly known suitor,, but Ainge held the line and got a better deal from Cleveland.
One other thing about Markkanen -- why would Ainge trade him at all unless he gets an incredible return? He's 27, shot 56% from the field, 40% from 3 and 90% from the line, and seems to still be improving. He also has the "complexion for the connection" with Jazz fans, to paraphrase Robert Parish. Isn't that a guy the Jazz should build around rather than hoping a bunch of picks and young guys they get in a trade work out? Or is the Jazz's overall timeline too long for a 27 year-old to be a big part of the championship-level team Ainge is building?
Increase their odds of landing Cooper Flagg. Don't see him taking less than a huge haul to do that though.
When it was Markkenen to OKC, maybe it made some sense because Ainge could have landed a nice return of picks and players. I see no incentive for him to trade with GS. To me this has all the makings of Danny stringing people along, asking for a ton, and deciding ultimately not to make a deal.
Isn't Utah somewhat worried he just walks? I guess they could extend him for big money and get a return later, and he probably takes that, since all players go that route these days.
Lets make this a little clearer, he shot 48% from the field (his eFG was 57.8%).
Biggest reasons to trade are contract and durability. Also seems that he’s hit his ceiling. Big reason not to trade is looking at what Porzingis got moved for, in both instances.
Kuminga is a very interesting young player, and it is still a fair amount of projection---he can't yet shoot threes all that well, is still just developing as a distributor, just ok as a defender, and his advanced metrics last year were comfortably behind (illustratively) Sam Hauser. He played much better in second half, and I don't mean to be overly pessimistic..he's obviously a great asset. And we all know metrics are imperfect especially for lower minutes played.
So, yes, there's growth and projection and it's something I'd bet on...but he's also very far from being an all-star caliber player. Just teeing up that he may really be more likely to be "the guy who brings in an all-star for end of Steph's career" than "guy who transitions the team to the next generation" imo.
So, yes, there's growth and projection and it's something I'd bet on...but he's also very far from being an all-star caliber player. Just teeing up that he may really be more likely to be "the guy who brings in an all-star for end of Steph's career" than "guy who transitions the team to the next generation" imo.
I get the idea of selling high, but it's also generally a good bet to hope for development from 22 year-olds with good physical attributes who have shown they can hang in the league and make a real impact already.
This.
I think Danny is kind of tired of being in this no man's land where they aren't bad enough to get a top 5 pick but they're clearly not good enough to compete for anything.
Markkanen is a very interesting trade chip but I am not sure there are that many teams that can play ball with the Jazz right now. Other than the Spurs and Warriors, and that Warriors package isn't that great, who can step up and pay a big price? I don't think the Thunder want to add another large salary. Pelicans don't work because I doubt Danny wants to get Ingram back. Maybe the Rockets? They have a lot of young pieces.
The Rockets make sense--they have an ok team now, Markkannen fits it, and they've reportedly been wanting to get frisky for Durant.
Lauri isn't Durant, but he's a lot younger and could be part of a good team for awhile.
The Spurs make a ton of sense too, but they might want to keep their multiple Flagg lottery tickets this year.
Yes, my point is more that the post-Curry Warriors likely aren't very good. And if Kuminga is their best player, they are at most a middling team. So when assessing whether to deal him now, to me, it's hard to put a ton of weight on what he might be then---it's a massive projection to get him to even being the second or third best guy on a contender isn't it? Maybe third guy is reasonable.
Anyway, it's not that he's bad or won't improve. It's that the choice is "take one more shot with Curry" or "bet on the remaining guys" to some degree. I know not binary, but I'm a bit more on the "lean in now" camp than I often am for this one.
So this is actually not a major concern for the Jazz, which makes dealing him even harder. He seems to legitimately want to be here, which is frankly not common for an NBA star (I know, shocking). So a young, talented player the Jazz can build around that wants to be here is almost a unicorn. As has been noted several times in this thread, however, the Jazz are stuck in no man's land with him. Ainge tried to go out "big game hunting" this off season but came up empty, so trading the unicorn may, ironically, be the only path towards relevancy. I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions.
LM is only making $18M next season but as most people here I'm sure know he's eligible for a "renegotiate and extend" deal that would make his 2024-25 salary something like $42M and then get a 4/$210-ishM extension. UT can renegotiate his current contract because UT has the cap space to do so.
What I didn't know that he's eligible for this deal starting on August 6, and if he signs on August 6, he would be eligible to be traded this year (February 6 is trade deadline). NBA trade candidates: Lauri Markkanen, Brandon Ingram and other players who could (still) be on the move - CBSSports.com
It makes a lot of sense for all parties to have the extension in place before he's traded - otherwise, he's going to FA but if LM doesn't sign the extension on August 6, that means he's going to be on the Jazz for the rest of this year. Will be interesting to watch.
If he signs on August 6th, he would be eligible to be traded on Feb 6th.
If I am him though, I would wait until the Aug 7th or 8th to sign and then go into the year knowing you are staying put. If it doesn't work out negotiate a trade next offseason
He might not mind being traded. I suspect that he'll accommodate UT and sign the 6th knowing that it's going to take a team that really really wants him for a trade to be made.
But we'll see!
It'll be interesting to see how he plays it. If he signs on August 6 I assume everyone is on the same page that he's about to be traded. If he delays even a day I think you are right and he's playing a long game of leverage.
This is the reason why he might be traded. He can sit on the extension for one day and effectively give himself a no trade clause this year and blow up Utah’s plan to gag for Flagg.
They had the worst defensive rating in the league last year and there are other moves they can make to offset having Markkanen on the team. If they want to tank, they don't necessarily need to move him
Eh, tell it to FIBA Europe, the EuroLeague, UEFA, etc.... all their neighbors in "Asia" refuse to allow athletic competition against them anyway.
How exactly did Trent go from making $18mm to signing a veteran’s minimum? He’s only 25. Really surprised that Milwaukee got him on that deal. He should fire his agent.
It's an audition for a better deal next summer, right? There's very little cap space left this year among competitive teams, and Milwaukee is a potentially very good spot for him to shine. I don't disagree wtih you overall though - there had to have been better offers earlier - but given where the market is today I guess I get it.
Though, if I were him, I think I'd rather be in Denver this year on the minimum.