No idea what the Kings are doing there. Trading meh for meh, paying more, and giving up picks to do it. Gotta do something I guess.
2024 NBA General Offseason Thread
- Thread starter DeadlySplitter
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Final details on "Klay Thompson trade" which also includes Buddy Hield S&T, Reggie Jackson salary dump to Charlotte:
View: https://twitter.com/mavspr/status/1809769317216710666
View: https://twitter.com/mavspr/status/1809769317216710666
Agree. They have the fodder to trade for the next big piece that becomes available once they decide the time is now (which may be...now, or close anyway).
I think there's a non-zero possibility that playing with better talent on a team with hope may result in better output from DeMarr.
Harry B should be a nice veteran presence for SA. He's a smart guy who's been through a lot of stuff over the course of his career.
Trading a 2031 pick swap is a very "this will be the next guy's problem" type of move.
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OKC should have tried to get DeRozan, they need another veteran scorer that can get buckets against locked-in defenses.
DeRozan is a much better player than Barnes at this point and probably raises Sacrament's floor a bit--and as we've seen this off-season, it is a lot harder to get better. I do think defensively Sacramento still has a ton of problems that will limit them to maybe the 7th seed if everything goes right.
DeRozan is a much better player than Barnes at this point and probably raises Sacrament's floor a bit--and as we've seen this off-season, it is a lot harder to get better. I do think defensively Sacramento still has a ton of problems that will limit them to maybe the 7th seed if everything goes right.
The Mavs apparently offered Derrick Jones Jr the same 3 yrs / $27M contract that they ultimately gave to Naji Marshall. Jones, of course, signed with the Clippers for 3 yrs / $30M. So to avoid the cost of an extra million per year, Dallas decided they'd not bring back one of their starters, and would replace him with a guy who couldn't even start in New Orleans (and had gotten a total of 25 starts in the 3 years since his rookie season). DARKO thinks Marshall is a -1 player who is on a flat trendline, while Jones has been a +0-to-1 player the last 3 years or so. That, or Jones preferred going to a team that just lost an all-NBA player over the team that had just taken him to the NBA Finals. Either way, strange decision by them.
To add to this from Jones' perspective, 3/27 in Dallas is as much or more than 3/30 in LA. 13.3% tax rate in CA.
I think they just passed something to make it 14.3% for people earning over 1M too.
It may not have showed up in the stats bc DeMar is very savvy and knows how to mask certain things…..but he showed me his age for the first time last year. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him take a significant step back in a new environment this season.
Should they have signed him instead of Hartenstein? Definitely the Big was a bigger need? And Hartenstein fits better in the system
Or do you think they should have traded Dort and maybe Dieng or Kenrich (not sure exactly how to get to the dollars for him)? That would seem like a mistake
I just don't think OKC was looking to lock up a 35 year old player for big money into the Chet/Dub extension year
Players are taxed based on where the game is played. So while that is true for the 41 home games, not the case for the other half.
DAL gave up Josh Green?
It would be kind of symmetrical if DAL followed their improbable deep playoff run with w flawed superstar by having the mistaken belief of how close they are, only to realize a few years later that they went in the wrong direction - a la ATL and Trae Young.
Really good interview. OKC has surpassed Denver as my biggest concern out West. While I've liked Hartenstein for a while, it was still an overpay, especially for a team that has historically been budget-conscious. But can't deny that Caruso & Hartenstein (while only unloading Giddey) make them better, which isn't easy when you win 57 games.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIaaAJ4Ga24
Play in contenders with a healthy Wemby
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIaaAJ4Ga24
Spurs have had a sneaky good summer. Some useful vets, a future pick swap, & a few rookies.
Play in contenders with a healthy Wemby
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Agreed. DeMarr is a beter player, for sure, but he's declining and the fit is also strange - did anyone watch Kings the last couple years and say "they need to get worse and less flexible defensively?" One possibility: they think he is ready to ACTUALLY work on being a spot-up 3pt shooter, which would be a nice late-career tansition for him were it to happen (note: no basis for thinking he believes that!) They are more fun with DeRozan, probably a bit better, but also still a pretty flawed team.
On DJJ, I think Dallas' goal was to get better and more versatile offensively and swapping DJJ for Marshall helps, as it's a real upgrade 3pt-wise. That part of their offseason I'm fine with, though I agree it's possible they'll regret it at DJJ could have upside left...but probability wise this feels fine to me. Opinions vary on Marshall - is he a role guy or someone with some upside on a more coherent team? We'll see, I kind of like that swap for them.
I'm less sold on Klay for Dallas; it could be a real win as he's still a great shooter and he might be able to get through to Luka (and the roster overall) about what it takes to win. But what he has done the last couple years is be very me-focused and lack recognition in his own declining abilities, so a lot of risk there too. His defense is ok, but declining...though he's still an upgrade at both ends on Hardaway Jr so that's a plus. I like the Grimes pickup, too, may or may not really matter but he's a useful wing rotation piece for them. But I do think losing Green is a bummer and I'd personally prefer him to Grimes.
To me, Dallas was fortunate to get to the finals---not that they didn't earn it, but the matchups fell their way and they got a young OKC team who probably should ahve (and will) do better in other series. So trying to change the mix makes some sense rather than standing still. They probably did upgrade their 3pt shooting around Luka/Kyrie which is significant. They may or may not have given something back defensively, and they got a little deeper. But they are likely slower/less athletic now, too.
The Quentin Grimes acquisition and Naji Marshall signing feels like a wash while losing Green & DJJ (only 26)
Have zero qualms with punting Hardaway (lots of pointZ!)
Nico's work over the last year has been pretty darn good:
1. I scoffed at the Kyrie signing but it was excellent Year 1.
2. Cutting bait on Grant, & upgrading to PJ was a very "aware" move.
3. Gafford pick-up was also a nice trade
4. Even tanking the previous season (heavily criticized) was shrewd & yielded a lot (Lively)
Yup. Spurs are in prime position over the next couple of years to make a big deal for another star. They control the 2025-2027 Hawks drafts due to the Murray trade and now control the Wolves’ 2030-2031 drafts due to the Dillingham trade and they have Dallas’ 2030 pick as well (or swap rights). Additionally, with the DeRozan deal they now control the Kings’ 2031 draft as well. And beyond all that they have some protected Bulls/Charlotte picks that probably won’t convey as firsts but you never know.
If I’m the Spurs, I’d be ok with one more rebuilding lottery year given the potential strength of the 2025 draft and then you really start getting aggressive next summer with a core of Wemby, Vassell, Castle, Sochan, top potential 2025 lotto picks (Spurs and Hawks), and plenty of draft capital to deal for a veteran disgruntled star, whoever that may be.
I’m curious how they time the rebuild against Pop’s age. He’s 75 and seemingly has no heir apparent.
I think they should have prioritized adding another proven scorer besides SGA over spending big on a backup center. I think you can get someone who is like, 75% of Hartenstein without too much trouble, but they desperately needed another scorer in the playoffs last season and while they've made good additions to their team with Hartenstein and Caruso, they still haven't addressed that need and I don't see them being able to get out of the West without that. They are really counting on Jalen Williams to be that guy, but he needs to play much better than he did against Dallas.
Yeah, I was honestly surprised that they re-upped him given his age. Seemed like a perfect opportunity to pair Wemby with a younger coach who he can grow with. Of course, wouldn’t shock me to see Pop move to front office at some point like Brad. Can’t imagine he coaches to 80 or whatever.
OKC put up a better offensive rating against DAL than BOS did.They definitely need J Will to play better, but I think their biggest issue was just closing out games, which can probably be attribute to just being so damn young
I think Pop is just so in love with the game and he is the best at it. He respects the past and the future. He probably believes he is the best coach for Wemby and will step aside once he finds someone to carry the torch.
The FINALS were Boston's worst offensive stretch over 5 games this season. Comping OKC's offense to those 5-games means little to nothing.
Yep, exactly my stance. Kornet, Tillman & others are 75% of Hartenstein. Isaiah is a nice player but the Knicks had everyone hyperventilating in the playoffs. By the end the NBA Media wanted Josh Hart & Donte to get MAX contracts! Heaven help us if JVG/Jackson were doing those games with Breen.
For all the excitement the Nova Knicks & Hartenstein created, IH put up OKish numbers in 13 playoff games (29.8mpg).
8.5pts / 7.8 rebs / 3.5 assists pretty similar to his regular season. That just doesn't scream $87M for a guy who has played for 6 teams/6 years and was a backup center his entire career until MRob went down.
Again I like IH, but OKC went overboard to pry him from NY. I guess they could move him with all their picks when they need to start paying J-Dub/Chet, and extending SGA.
The third year for IH is a team option so this is really an overpay for two years. They will just let him walk when the extensions come due.
That's fair at the end of the deal. Still think the contract size prevented them from doing other stuff this summer.
Then again I want them to use their picks in trades at this stage (57-win team) BUT they seem resistant to moving a basket of them. Which has me thinking that Clay Bennett won't have the stomach Wyc has had with the tax.
Perhaps the tax rate isn't the factor some folks keep saying it is.
This. Offense really isn't their problem. They needed experience and toughness and got it.
I don't know that I'd call them the favorite in the west, but I'm not sure who I like better too.
I like the IH pickup - one of my takeaways from the Dallas/OKC series is that they needed to be able to play more ways, and adding Caruso and IH helps. They are better able to compete halfcourt defense against a big team, better rebounding, and clearer on offensive roles. All helpful.
I do also agree that adding another creator needs to be on their list; may only be a secondary type, given good Jaylin's upside. But there's a lot of pressure on SGA to create right now, more than any contender other than Denver puts on its top guy, imo.
They are a really good roster and great set of young assets; I have them ahead of Denver right now in West and there's certainly dynasty possibilities. But I do think they need some growth/development to get there---and they have guys (Jaylin, Chet) who are quite realistically going to provide it.
I do also agree that adding another creator needs to be on their list; may only be a secondary type, given good Jaylin's upside. But there's a lot of pressure on SGA to create right now, more than any contender other than Denver puts on its top guy, imo.
They are a really good roster and great set of young assets; I have them ahead of Denver right now in West and there's certainly dynasty possibilities. But I do think they need some growth/development to get there---and they have guys (Jaylin, Chet) who are quite realistically going to provide it.
Doesn’t seem that long ago that Harrison Barnes was seriously being talked about as a trade target for the Celtics (in exchange for a FRP?). Is he now a negative asset? Fortunes sure change quickly in the NBA.
Pretty much agree with this but it’s funny that prior to the Finals, everyone was raving about their 3P shooting (DJJ was hitting like 38%, mostly on corner 3Ps) plus saying how their increased athleticism was turbochsrging their defense). And then BOS “figures” them out (though how many trams have 5 guys who can credibly guard Luka and Kyrie - much less be able to play them at the same time - so they go for more shooting but less athleticism?
I will be interested in seeing how this plays out. DJJ covered for a lot of Luka’s snd Kyrie’s shortcomings - he’s that good on defense IMO.
Tanking was kind of s no-brainer. Giving Nico credit for getting rid of GW (along with asset) while not deducting internet points gor signing him in the first place seems weird.
Kyrie was a good signing but there’s no denying his talent and DAL doesn’t have anybother means of getting talent other than rake risks like Kyrie.
I agree with this. I’m also in the skeptical camp that IH and Chet are going to be able to play together. If OKC uses IH ss a screener in a lot of actions, then what is Chet going to do but sit in a corner? If OKC is using 2 bigs in their actions, won’t thst clog up the middle? Finally, OKC loves guard/guard screens. What’s IH going to do in those actions?
One other note while we’re on OKC. Daigneault gets the “wunderkind” label attached to him but I’ll just point out that it was our CJM who figured out the gameplan to stop DAL’s offense, not Daignesult.
Will be interesting to watch this as well.
On paper, Grant seemed like a very reasonable initial signing. Defense & Corner Office maestro. BUT within months it sounded like Granite was rubbing teammates the wrong way? not producing? losing minutes? Was ordering Chipotle to practice sessions?
Whatever the reason, he wasn't a good fit there. Nico quickly admitted error & found Charlotte (his hometown) welcoming. Nico just didn't dig in his heels and tell Kidd to figure out how to use Grant. He just got a better version.
I respect GMs who recognize mistakes & course correct.
Matbe GW was comparing Luka’s defense to JT’s?
Agree that GM’s who can admit they made a mistake is better than those who lock themselves in but OTOH, Nico is running out of assets to attach to his mistakes. It slso seems weird to me that he’d sign GW (kind of seitchy wing who can shoot); reslize DAL probably needs more athleticism and then get PJ and Gafford, and then after a Finals run, not retaining two of their more athletic players for Naji and Klay.
In addition, it’s going yo be interesting watching Klay stand in the corner while Luka and KI pound the ball.
How often will they be playing together? Both Chet and IH are 30-32 mpg type players that I expect to be used similarly to Lively/Gafford on steroids (some minutes together in certain matchups) if the Thunder are smart. IH simply replaces all of the Jayln and Kenrich Williams minutes which is an enormous upgrade. IH is much much more valuable than a veteran scorer who won't be on the floor in the final 6 minutes of the game with the ball in the hands of SGA and Jalen especially in the playoffs.I agree with this. I’m also in the skeptical camp that IH and Chet are going to be able to play together. If OKC uses IH ss a screener in a lot of actions, then what is Chet going to do but sit in a corner? If OKC is using 2 bigs in their actions, won’t thst clog up the middle? Finally, OKC loves guard/guard screens. What’s IH going to do in those actions?
One other note while we’re on OKC. Daigneault gets the “wunderkind” label attached to him but I’ll just point out that it was our CJM who figured out the gameplan to stop DAL’s offense, not Daignesult.
Will be interesting to watch this as well.
I don't think adding a 35 year old scorer for 3 years would have been the proper solution. Yes they are counting on JDub (and Chet) to be that guy. That makes perfect sense. No reason to completely abandon their plan because they shot poorly in a series against a very good defensive team. And if PJ Washington doesn't suddenly become an elite shooter for 2 weeks, OKC likely advances.
Well my guess is OKC 6 game stretch against a very good Dallas Defense was also well below their standard.
They still have one of the exceptions available, as well as a roster space open, plus picks, and potential players to move if they want to. No they can't easily go out and get a really expensive player. I don't think they'll do anything big, but they might. Right now it is going to be a real fight to get playing time. Guys like JWill, Kenrich, Dieng, and Dillon Jones (and they love DJ) are going to be competing for regular season scraps, and then likely not being in the top 9 in postseason. to add another player who will see they court you need to get someone better than Isiah Joe, or Aaron Wiggins. I think they could use a playable 6'8 or 6'9 guy. but maybe they will give Dieng a final chance to prove he can be that guy, or look for it at the deadline
This is impossible. I was told for weeks and months how awful Luka and Kyrie were defensively. I was told at the beginning of the playoffs that Dallas' defense was due to a number of other things aside from being the best (my rating at the time) or among the best (most others rating at the time). How did everyone keep having their worst offense games when playing 5-on-3 against the Mavs in the playoffs? Was it the way Kyrie's "calm eyes" glaring at them as they would rise up to shoot? Was it the Double Cheeseburger stench on Luka's jersey that threw them off their game? Surely it couldn't have been Kidd's scheme because we all know he's an even worse coach than he is a person. I'm at a loss.
Ok, I'm done with my fun lol.
Does Oubre play in Boston? He might want to chase a ring, but he is also only 28, I'm sure he wants to be somewhere he can get his 28 min a night
Why yes they did.
We are only talking about 10 playoff games for OKC, so it's not is if the sample is all that much larger
I'm so confused. It was just reported this morning Philly renounced their rights to him?
Does that NOT make them UFAs?
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1809973109815976409
DeRozan is exactly the type of guy OKC should avoid. They struggled against DAL because they couldn't shoot from the outside. Adding DeRozan who can't hit a jumper and puts up 1950s shooting in the playoffs (Career 41/22 splits) is a terrible idea. Teams pack the paint and dared them to shoot, and SGA couldn't get to the rim because nobody was respected outside 16 feet. DeRozan is even less of a threat outside than anyone he'd replace, and he;s much worse at getting to the rim and finishing against playoff defense than SGA.
DeRozan is a guy you go out and get so he can score 30 on Charlotte in December and help you get to the playoffs where you take your 1st round exit and the extra home game checks and are satisified. OKC is beyond that stage. That;s why the Kings, who are just looking to hang around in the playoffs for a round or maybe 2 is a good fit.
We can disagree on DeRozan's potential effectiveness in that role while still acknowledging that OKC probably needs more capable shot creators to get out of the West.
12-15 minutes together may not seem a lot but my guess (due to egos) is that OKC is going to have to start out playing them together in crunch time. Maybe OKC won’t be in a lot of close games.
But what do I know? I’m sure OKC thought anout this a ton and already have sets they figure will be succesful. Plus this article - https://nypost.com/2024/07/06/sports/thunder-wooed-isaiah-hartenstein-away-from-knicks-with-expanded-role/ - makes it dound like IH is going to stRt hoisting up 3Ps so maybe he’ll become Al Horford.
Oh his defense is bad, like really bad...
If Luka could have stayed in front of
that's cool, go with a 10-game SSS
BUT comparing it to 5 games of the most efficient offense in NBA history is doubling down on SSS
Bennett has only spent about 7M less in tax than Wyc has over the past decade.
They seem to have similar stomachs.
He was bad against Boston due to those matchups you stated. No doubt. I’m just having fun bc that Mavs defense in the playoffs had me on the podium screaming like Dennis Green.
