That's completely asinine. The team has been around for three decades now and this is their second player to reach the Hall of Fame. Larry Walker clearly lost votes because of his time in Colorado.
2024 HOF Ballot
- Thread starter DeadlySplitter
- Start date
He had 99% of the final public ballot, so he was, there just aren't as many of them any more (or they get drowned out by the addition of newer better voters)
It’s the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Altar Boys.
And even if it was the latter, you likely have greenie abusers in. And Ty Cobb is in too and he was a grade A jackass.
No, Ty Cobb was a decent dude who got smeared by a grade A jackass and apparently some people still get mislead.
Maybe they need better management and ownership. The same player, after today, has a better chance of getting in playing in that joke of a ballpark for 1/2 their games, rather than a random ballpark.
It's almost like when you play half your games at coors your stats on road games are going to be worse than if you played a full season under similar conditions. If only people had been writing about this for over a decade or something.
I hear what you are saying. The dividing line is between those who were caught and those who were not. Seems to me they were all on PEDs of one kind or another.
It's now the Hall of very good.
Ale - why is Coors still a joke of a ballpark? Isn’t it not even a hitters’ park at this point. Like statistically? Facts and such.
Must just be a coincidence that the rockies are always the worst hitting team on the road or something. Playing at coors makes it harder to hit anywhere else.
Why are you always swearing dude? Calm down. It’s a legitimate question. In fact, it’s the only pertinent response to your claims here.
To be fair, he did cause one of them by running into Ellsbury and crushing his weak little bird bones.
Remember that time Mauer won a playoff game?
Yeah neither do I. Because he never did.
Mauer never won a single playoff game. 0-10. Sub 700 OPS. Hard pass.
Yeah neither do I. Because he never did.
Mauer never won a single playoff game. 0-10. Sub 700 OPS. Hard pass.
How can you be on sosh and not understand how park adjusted stats work? If you transformed his 17 year career to any other team he still would have been worth the same 62 war and 133 ops+, which is easily HOF worthy. His counting stats would be different, and his home road split wouldn't be as extreme, but he would still have been just as good and just as valuable a player.
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You’re making this more complicated than it has to be. He batted below 290, as a 1B, on the road.
Also I don’t spend all of my time in the same forum. But thanks for the personal attack.
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Great, and when you combine that with his home numbers and park adjust you get one of the better hitters and best first basemen in modern baseball.
Btw, his career road OPS from 1997-2013 was .855. During that time the overall league OPS ranged from .714 to .782, probably averaging around .750. So you could literally only look at his road numbers, ignore that his road numbers were affected far more than a typical hitter, and those alone were much better than the average mlb hitter on a per at bat basis.
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It's still very much a hitter's park:
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/statcast-park-factors
Yeah shouldn’t have gone by memory on that. Nonetheless, Fenway is 3 and I don’t think anyone’s gonna bring that up with Mookie’s HoF creds (not that Helton is as good).
Yeah because a) we should be judging players on ten game sample sizes b) wins are totally a function of an individual rather than a team.
Stop being ridiculous.
And some meta-data about the pre-results tracking: % of total vote pool that was known publicly (to the ballot-tracking team) prior to results announcement, by year.
2024: 218/385 = 56.6%
2023: 206/389 = 53.0%
2022: 205/394 = 52.0%
2021: 205/401 = 51.1%
2020: 219/397 = 55.2%
2019: 232/425 = 54.6%
2018: 247/422 = 58.5%
2017: 249/442 = 56.3%
2016: 211/440 = 48.0%
2015: 201/549 = 36.6%
2014: 191/571 = 33.5%
2013: 168/569 = 29.5%
2012: 116/573 = 20.2%
2011: 122/581 = 21.0%
2010: 93/539 = 17.3%
2009: 61/539 = 11.3%
We've been accustomed to knowing just over half the ballots before the results are known. And then most of the rest in post-results announcements (last year we eventually knew almost 83% of all ballots). These days, if the old boys club wants to keep you out, they have to muster a LOT of antipathy, like really widespread.
2024: 218/385 = 56.6%
2023: 206/389 = 53.0%
2022: 205/394 = 52.0%
2021: 205/401 = 51.1%
2020: 219/397 = 55.2%
2019: 232/425 = 54.6%
2018: 247/422 = 58.5%
2017: 249/442 = 56.3%
2016: 211/440 = 48.0%
2015: 201/549 = 36.6%
2014: 191/571 = 33.5%
2013: 168/569 = 29.5%
2012: 116/573 = 20.2%
2011: 122/581 = 21.0%
2010: 93/539 = 17.3%
2009: 61/539 = 11.3%
We've been accustomed to knowing just over half the ballots before the results are known. And then most of the rest in post-results announcements (last year we eventually knew almost 83% of all ballots). These days, if the old boys club wants to keep you out, they have to muster a LOT of antipathy, like really widespread.
If the internet existed in 1946, everyone on Sons of Mose Solomon would be losing their shit over Tommy McCarthy and Tinker-to-Evers-to-Chance right now. I just can't get worked up over who does or doesn't make it, because it's no more a joke now than it has been since before our lifetimes.
Right. Ted Williams and Mike trout have poor records and performances in the playoffs.
I’m having my ESPN brother research the # and % of HOFers who never won a single playoff game. I’m extremely curious to the results.
Ted Williams won infinitely more playoff games than Joe Mauer
Mike Trout is an obvious hall of famer.
Joe Mauer was a good, maybe very good, player who has zero memorable moments in baseball history.
Edit and honestly it’s LOL on you guys for comparing Joe Mauer to Ted Williams and Mike Traut. Like, are you fucking serious?
7th best catcher of all time by JAWS is a bit better than "good, maybe very good"
said it before but thinking Mauer wasn't going to get in is just silly. He was the first overall, stayed with a team his whole career, and no one questioned that he was the best catcher in the league from like his 2nd year. I don't even get what the case against him was, that he played games at first?
Meanwhile people want to argue that Yadier Molina, a guy who was basically Omar Vizquel but with the Cardinals, should get in.
Meanwhile people want to argue that Yadier Molina, a guy who was basically Omar Vizquel but with the Cardinals, should get in.
I don’t even remember his one post-season XBH.
He gets in for being a good catcher, yet as a catcher…he had 1118 hits and 91 homers. Meh.
Does Sabathia have a legit shot? He’s Andy Pettitte with 4 fewer (less?) rings.
I was comparing the post season failures of two players that are HOFers. I don't really care one way or the other if he gets in. Using wins as a barometer to see whether a catcher makes the HOF is not a metric I would use.
There are two eligible SPs with 3000 strikeouts who aren’t in the Hall, and I bet you can guess who they are.
(it’s Roger Clemens and Curt Schilling)
Or that's my bat signal...
I got 12 or 14 prior to Mauer depending on how you count things, starting with 1903 playoff games. My criteria here is that they were inducted by the BBWAA as a player. As opposed to a veteran's committee or being inducted as a manager or executive. Let's start off with the raw 14:
-Phil Niekro
-Fergie Jenkins
-Billy Williams
-Ernie Banks
-Robin Roberts
-Ralph Kiner
-Bob Feller*
-Ted Lyons
-Dazzy Vance*
-Harry Heilmann
-Paul Waner
-Willie Keeler
-George Sisler
-Nap Lajoie
*Never played in a playoff win but was on rosters of teams that had playoff wins, with the 1948 WS and 1934 WS, respectively.
Here's some more Hall of FRAUDs who only got in by because of their home park.
Fraud a:
| BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | |
| Home | .354 | .443 | .491 | .934 |
| Away | .302 | .387 | .395 | .781 |
Wade Boggs
Fraud b:
| BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | |
| Home | .320 | .374 | .546 | .920 |
| Away | .277 | .330 | .459 | .789 |
Jim Ed
Fraud c:
| BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | |
| Home | .306 | .402 | .503 | .904 |
| Away | .264 | .357 | .422 | .779 |
Yaz
Fraud d:
| BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | |
| Home | .344 | .388 | .521 | .909 |
| Away | .291 | .331 | .430 | .761 |
Kirby Puckett
Fraud e:
| BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | |
| Home | .296 | .383 | .522 | .905 |
| Away | .257 | .342 | .406 | .747 |
Ron Santo
Also, CC’s peak seems quite a bit better than Pettitte’s. CC had a pretty down stretch but then bounced back for three seasons in surprising fashion.
I will say that I’ve always appreciated CC after his ridiculous performance for the Brewers after Cleveland traded him. One of the most dominant stretches I can remember.
That makes sense. Just seems like the two were fairly similar, although Pettitte gets hurt for the PED stuff and never being seen as the best pitcher on the Yankees. But both had five top 6 CYA finishes, although CC won one. Then again, Pettitte won 19 postseason games to CC’s 10.
I can’t believe I’m actually defending Andy Pettitte lol
Missing at least 1, Luke Appling, unless he doesn't apply because he got in via bbwa special run off election after only receiving 71% of the original vote. I think I counted 11 who never even played a playoff game, though that includes guys like Joe Torre, who obviously isn't in the HOF for his playing.Or that's my bat signal...
I got 12 or 14 prior to Mauer depending on how you count things. My criteria here is that they were inducted by the BBWAA as a player. As opposed to a veteran's committee or being inducted as a manager or executive. Let's start off with the raw 14:
-Phil Niekro
-Fergie Jenkins
-Billy Williams
-Ernie Banks
-Robin Roberts
-Ralph Kiner
-Bob Feller*
-Ted Lyons
-Dazzy Vance*
-Harry Heilmann
-Paul Waner
-Willie Keeler
-George Sisler
-Nap Lajoie
*Never played in a playoff win but played and was on rosters of teams that had playoff wins, with the 1948 WS and 1934 WS, respectively.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/leaders_most_gamesnops.shtml
Yep, the runoff is why he isn't in that list--and not traditional so I personally wouldn't count him but I absolutely see why others would. Great note though, love it. Re-running my data, he's the only applicable one that would be added due to runoff.
It’s kind of wild that Phil Niekro may be the greatest player to never play in a playoff game. 95.9 career bWAR which is 35th all time. That’s kind of nuts.
Also this is a crazy list….active leaders in bWAR
Trout 85.2
Verlander 80.9
Kershaw 79.9
Greinke 77.5
Scherzer 75.0
Betts 64.5
Votto 64.4
Goldy 61.7
Longoria 58.6
Freeman 55.7
I think it’s kind of under appreciated how great these four pitchers are. After Scherzer…..any guess who the next active pitchers in bWAR are?
Sale 47.2
Wainwright 44.9
DeGrom 44.8
Cole 41.2
Cueto 36.4
(Sorry for the digression…..)
Trout 85.2
Verlander 80.9
Kershaw 79.9
Greinke 77.5
Scherzer 75.0
Betts 64.5
Votto 64.4
Goldy 61.7
Longoria 58.6
Freeman 55.7
I think it’s kind of under appreciated how great these four pitchers are. After Scherzer…..any guess who the next active pitchers in bWAR are?
Sale 47.2
Wainwright 44.9
DeGrom 44.8
Cole 41.2
Cueto 36.4
(Sorry for the digression…..)
He pitched in two, neither were wins. Both years his team got LCS swept. Criteria here is won, not never played in.
If you want never played in, a few people have asked that, I can provide it, but I think that's a bit sidetracked since it doesn't pertain to Mauer.
Seconded.
It’s all a sham.
A HOF without Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod and Manny is absolutely ignoring some of the biggest and most important players in history.
Paging @Brand Name but how many players made the HOF while playing at least 10 playoff games and winning zero? I am guessing that Joe Mauer is the only one ever.
That is in no fault because the twins were a dumpster fire. This isnt the NBA or NFL where a single player can drag a team into the playoffs.
God himself would not be able to will the twins into the playoffs by himself
Same with trout and Ohtani.
The overall point is silly here given how 2009 ALDS Game 2 went in isolation, let alone at large and how relative values of an individual player work in this game, let alone in small sample sizes. But by the same criteria as the 12/14 prior list...
Yes. Simply because the vast majority of the list came pre-divisionally, limiting possible game count.