It's essentially year 12, if Bonds and Clemens didn't even get particularly close (and they weren't actually suspended for anything, and also were both better players), then Arod has slim to no shot, and Manny has even less than no shot.
2024 HOF Ballot
- Thread starter DeadlySplitter
- Start date
Yeah, but it is a farce to keep Manny and A Rod out. I also want to see Billy Wagner get in. As for the two steroid abusing stars baseball needs to come clean and admit the owners knew about the steroids and did nothing to sell tickets and bring eyeballs to televisions. Those two, Roger, McGuire and maybe Sosa were the best of the era. We will never know who is already in that abused steroids and amphetamines.
Yeah, you really can't compare WAR for catchers versus any other position. Not many catchers play more than 120 games in a season, and there's only ten catchers with 8000+ PA all-time... Mauer's 7960 ranks 11th (not sure where he'd rank in PA strictly as a catcher).
It doesn't invalidate your point, but I'd argue Bonds and Clemens got "pretty close", actually. Finishing with 66% and 65% their final year (having started out at 36% and 38%) is impressive I think, given the sorts of minds they had to win over (or wait to retire and cease balloting). That's among the highest %s anyone has ever received without eventually getting in via a later BBWAA ballot.
That leaderboard, btw (the Hall of the Very Close), within the last 50 years, appears to be:
74.7% Nellie Fox 1985 (in his 15th year on ballot; eventually inducted by Veterans Committee in 1997)
74.2% Jim Bunning 1988 (12th, VC 1996)
73.5% Orlando Cepeda 1994 (15th, VC 1999)
72.2% Todd Helton 2023 (5th)
71.1% Curt Schilling 2021 (9th)
68.9% Enos Slaughter 1978 (13th*, VC 1985)
68.1% Billy Wagner 2023 (8th)
67.7% Jack Morris 2013 (14th, VC 2018)
66.0% Barry Bonds 2022 (10th)
65.2% Roger Clemens 2022 (10th)
63.4% Gil Hodges 1983 (15th, VC 2022)
58.1% Andruw Jones 2023 (6th)
55.0% Gary Sheffield 2023 (9th)
52.6% Omar Vizquel 2020 (3rd)
50.6% Lee Smith 2012 (10th, VC 2019)
47.9% Pee Wee Reese 1976 (13th, VC 1984)
47.3% Tony Oliva 1988 (7th, VC 2022)
46.5% Jeff Kent 2023 (10th)
46.5% Carlos Beltran 2023 (1st)
43.1% Roger Maris 1988 (15th)
43.1% Ron Santo 1998 (15th, VC 2012)
42.8% Hal Newhouser 1975 (12th*, VC 1992)
42.6% Red Schoendienst 1980 (12th, VC 1989)
42.6% Steve Garvey 1995 (2nd)
42.3% Bill Mazeroski 1992 (15th, VC 2001)
41.7% Richie Ashburn 1978 (11th, VC 1995)
40.9% Alan Trammell 2016 (15th, VC 2018)
40.6% Maury Wills 1981 (4th)
39.3% Harvey Kuenn 1988 (12th)
38.4% Phil Rizzuto 1976 (14th*, VC 1994)
36.8% George Kell 1977 (13th*, VC 1983)
35.7% Alex Rodriguez 2023 (2nd)
35.6% Phil Cavarretta 1975 (12th*)
33.2% Manny Ramirez 2023 (7th)
31.7% Tommy John 2009 (15th; hovered in the 20s his entire eligibility)
30.9% Luis Tiant 1988 (1st; would never again clear 18%)
29.6% Jim Kaat 1993 (5th, VC 2022)
* This was their final year on the ballot; they appear to have not gotten the full 15 years due to not being nominated the first year they were eligible. But each of them got the usual final-year bump.
So of the 26 people to have ever gotten at least a third of the ballot (within the last 50 years), and who exhausted their eligibility without being inducted (so, not including the still-eligible), 17 of them (65%) were eventually inducted by the Veterans Committee or its era-specific successors. Those are pretty good odds for these guys, overall - and some of the still-eligible are clearly going to clear the 75%, too. But basically everyone at the top of that leaderboard is either still eligible, got in via the VC, or is reviled for steroids or for being Curt Schilling. The first exceptions are all the way down the list at Jeff Kent (46.5%) or Steve Garvey (42.6%). A few of them might have a chance with a forgiving veterans committee of old-heads. But sooner or later, everyone who reaches Bonds/Clemens levels of support gets their day in Cooperstown one way or another.
Vizquel has also had quite the balloting arc. First year (2018) he gets 37%, then 43%, 53%, 49%, 24%, 19%, and currently sits at 13%. Still has a chance to take that quadratic curve and cubically transform it, though. But seems far less likely than the momentum that's building behind Helton and Wagner. Of the 8 still-eligible players in that list (in italics), 7 of the 8 had their best year last year and are all trending up (some more than others). Vizquel is the only exception.
A bit tangential to your post (much appreciate your providing the current online vote breakdown), but if the Hall voters leave Ichiro out but yet vote in Sabathia, the entire process should be scrapped completely and replaced with monkeys throwing darts on a list of eligible names. There is literally no universe in which Ichiro is not a HoF'er.
I’m less surprised by that and more surprised that Sheffield has +~30% on each of them. He’s a worse player with similar PED taint, no?
I suppose Manny and A-Rod were actually caught and suspended. But Sheff was both in the Mitchell Report and definitively linked to BALCO, right? Wouldn’t that put him in the category of guys who never tested positive/were suspended but had credible allegations like Sammy Sosa (18.5% of vote in last year)?
To be clear I’d personally vote for all three (Manny, A-Rod, Sheff).
But 43% of his career PA’s were as a 1b/dh. He looks good compared to other catchers, not so much compared to other 1b/dh.
Ichiro will get like 97%+ on the first ballot.
CC might squeeze through the first time around but I could also see him falling short the first few ballots like Mussina did.
Sheff's story is that he only used what Bonds gave him one time. When he found out "the cream" and the "flaxseed oil" were steroids, he quit. Nobody ever uncovered anything beyond that. He was outspoken as pro-testing, too, so he may have been telling the truth.
I thought Sheffield was pretty huge, but looking through pics he wasn’t unreasonably jacked. You could see even as a rookie he’s just one of those dudes who’s gonna gain muscle quick.
Interesting to see this mentioned today per this link:
With one-third of ballots made public thanks to ballot tracker Ryan Thibodaux*, five players have the requisite 75% of the vote for election. If that number holds, it would match the inaugural 1936 class for the most ever elected.
With one-third of ballots made public thanks to ballot tracker Ryan Thibodaux*, five players have the requisite 75% of the vote for election. If that number holds, it would match the inaugural 1936 class for the most ever elected.
- Adrián Beltré (1st year, 98.4%): The third baseman is a shoo-in, but he won't join Mariano Rivera as the second unanimous selection. Two Boston-based voters, Bill Ballou and Tony Massarotti, left him off their ballot and only voted for Alex Rodriguez and Manny Ramírez.
Sheffield is now down to 74.8%
Mauer and Wagner should be safe. Helton probably gets in too (he’s ahead of Wagner but has a worse resume imho)
Mauer and Wagner should be safe. Helton probably gets in too (he’s ahead of Wagner but has a worse resume imho)
With 136 ballots now known (~35% of the total), here's a second count of how votes are stacking up.
98.5% Adrian Beltre (134/136) (1st year)
83.1% Joe Mauer (1st year)
81.6% Todd Helton (6th year; net 0 from 2023, missed by 11 votes last year)
78.7% Billy Wagner (9th year; net +5, missed by 27)
---
75.0% Gary Sheffield (10th year; net +9, missed by 78)
67.6% Andruw Jones (7th year, net +0, missed by 66)
64.7% Carlos Beltran (2nd year, net +12, missed by 111)
44.9% Chase Utley (1st year)
39.7% Alex Rodriguez (3rd year, net -1)
37.5% Manny Ramirez (8th year, net -1)
18.4% Bobby Abreu (5th year, net -1)
All others <15%, including Vizquel all the way down to 11%. Bartolo Colon still sitting at 1 vote. Matt Holiday, with a 110 HOF Monitor score, is no longer rolling a Full Blutarsky, he does have 1 vote too now.
The top 5 are all up ~2% in vote share from the first review a week ago (Helton 1.3%, Wagner 3.7%). Starting to think Mauer might hold up. Helton looks 50/50 at this point. I don't think Wagner will get there, nevermind Sheffield who will get the usual, bigger-than-average public-to-private drop-off in percentage given to suspected steroid people. Whether people think that's fair or not. Beltran is unchanged, Jones is up +4.4%, Utley down a little, and A-Rod down 5% (!), Manny 3% and Abreu 4% since last review.
We are sitting at 7.6 votes per revealed ballot (out of a theoretical 10, of course). Previous 5 years that number was:
2024: 7.6 (tentative)
2023: 6.0 (elected 1 guy, Rolen)
2022: 7.3 (1, Ortiz)
2021: 6.0 (0; Schilling 71%)
2020: 6.8 (2: Jeter, Larry Walker)
2019: 8.3 (4: Halladay, Edgar, Mussina, Rivera)
2018: 8.7 (4: Guerrero, Hoffman, Chipper, Thome)
2017: 8.4 (3: Bagwell, Raines, Ivan Rodriguez)
So we're trending pretty high in votes-per-ballot, not quite back to the ballot-glut days of 2014-2019 but near enough to it that an expectation of 2-3 successful candidates would be reasonable. And last year had the lowest-on-record gap between Public and Private # votes-per-ballot. Perhaps some of the shaming of look-at-me blank ballots or 1-2 name ballots is having an effect.
98.5% Adrian Beltre (134/136) (1st year)
83.1% Joe Mauer (1st year)
81.6% Todd Helton (6th year; net 0 from 2023, missed by 11 votes last year)
78.7% Billy Wagner (9th year; net +5, missed by 27)
---
75.0% Gary Sheffield (10th year; net +9, missed by 78)
67.6% Andruw Jones (7th year, net +0, missed by 66)
64.7% Carlos Beltran (2nd year, net +12, missed by 111)
44.9% Chase Utley (1st year)
39.7% Alex Rodriguez (3rd year, net -1)
37.5% Manny Ramirez (8th year, net -1)
18.4% Bobby Abreu (5th year, net -1)
All others <15%, including Vizquel all the way down to 11%. Bartolo Colon still sitting at 1 vote. Matt Holiday, with a 110 HOF Monitor score, is no longer rolling a Full Blutarsky, he does have 1 vote too now.
The top 5 are all up ~2% in vote share from the first review a week ago (Helton 1.3%, Wagner 3.7%). Starting to think Mauer might hold up. Helton looks 50/50 at this point. I don't think Wagner will get there, nevermind Sheffield who will get the usual, bigger-than-average public-to-private drop-off in percentage given to suspected steroid people. Whether people think that's fair or not. Beltran is unchanged, Jones is up +4.4%, Utley down a little, and A-Rod down 5% (!), Manny 3% and Abreu 4% since last review.
We are sitting at 7.6 votes per revealed ballot (out of a theoretical 10, of course). Previous 5 years that number was:
2024: 7.6 (tentative)
2023: 6.0 (elected 1 guy, Rolen)
2022: 7.3 (1, Ortiz)
2021: 6.0 (0; Schilling 71%)
2020: 6.8 (2: Jeter, Larry Walker)
2019: 8.3 (4: Halladay, Edgar, Mussina, Rivera)
2018: 8.7 (4: Guerrero, Hoffman, Chipper, Thome)
2017: 8.4 (3: Bagwell, Raines, Ivan Rodriguez)
So we're trending pretty high in votes-per-ballot, not quite back to the ballot-glut days of 2014-2019 but near enough to it that an expectation of 2-3 successful candidates would be reasonable. And last year had the lowest-on-record gap between Public and Private # votes-per-ballot. Perhaps some of the shaming of look-at-me blank ballots or 1-2 name ballots is having an effect.
Someone sitting in the high 70s in a pretty small set of public ballots is nowhere near safe
General update, full vote will be out a week from tonight:
View: https://twitter.com/sarsdell/status/1747420886947242331
View: https://twitter.com/sarsdell/status/1747420886947242331
The thing about Mauer is that people want to think of him as a catcher yet barely played the majority of the games there. Posey played like 20% more innings at catcher despite playing 3 less years and he was hurt all the time. Most of the catchers in the Hall played almost double the innings at C.
Although I guess if they are close to putting in a no defense 1st baseman who played at the peak of lolcoors then I can't really blame the voters for ignoring Mauer's lack of PT at Catcher.
Although I guess if they are close to putting in a no defense 1st baseman who played at the peak of lolcoors then I can't really blame the voters for ignoring Mauer's lack of PT at Catcher.
Mauer isn't getting in by collecting stats as a first baseman though. He's getting votes for his peak where he was the only catcher in history to win three batting titles. The phenomenon of forgetting him as a first baseman is also nothing new... no one recalls Ernie Banks or Rod Carew as first basemen either yet that's the position where they each played the most games.
Final tracker roundup, in advance of announcement at 6pm ET tonight. Tune into the MLB Network starting now for a full EIGHT HOURS OF LEAD-UP COVERAGE GOOD CHRIST AMIGHTY.
Anyway, with 207 ballots now known (~54% of the total), here's the vote situation:
99.0% Adrian Beltre (205/207) (1st year)
83.1% Joe Mauer (1st year)
82.1% Todd Helton (6th year; net +3 from 2023, missed by 11 votes last year)
77.8% Billy Wagner (9th year; net +7, missed by 27)
---
74.9% Gary Sheffield (10th year; net +16, missed by 78)
70.0% Andruw Jones (7th year, net +3, missed by 66)
66.7% Carlos Beltran (2nd year, net +20, missed by 111)
39.6% Chase Utley (1st year)
39.1% Alex Rodriguez (3rd year, net -1)
35.3% Manny Ramirez (8th year, net -2)
17.9% Bobby Abreu (5th year, net -2)
15.9% Andy Pettitte (6th year, net -4)
All others <15%, though Pettitte now clears that bar for the first time.
Helton +0.5%, Wagner -1.0% and Sheffield and Mauer flat even since last update. The top 3 look pretty solid for election this year; Helton could get as few as 66.7% of the remaining ballots and still be inducted, which would be a public-private split of -15.4%; last year, his public-private split was -12.7% and in 2022 it was -13.4%, so he should squeak through.
Sheffield being the 2nd-leading vote-flipper this year (+16 among known returners) was not one I saw coming, but I guess he doesn't have quite the same steroids stink as his slugger contemporaries. I think there's no way he gets more vote share on the private ballots than on the public ballots, so he probably just misses tonight, and has to wait for the Veterans Committee (which he's likely to get, based on my analysis upthread).
Jones is +2.3% since last update, and now that he's at 70% (on his 7th ballot), I think he probably makes it next year. Likewise Beltran (+2.0% since last update and at +20 vote flippers clearly a growing favorite), plus Wagner, who I think probably falls short this year but has one final year remaining and will get that sympathy push. Utley has dropped a full -5.3% since last update, it's a strong debut ballot but if he's going to get in it will probably take a while. Manny down -2.2%, clearly going nowhere
So 2025 ballot looks pretty good for a class of Wagner, A. Jones and Beltran, alongside debutants Ichiro plus maybe Sabathia or Pedroia. Could be much smaller classes for a few years after that, with Utley the only likely momentum guy. 2026: Cole Hamels, Ryan Braun. 2027: Buster Posey, Jon Lester, Brett Gardner. Next surefire first-ballot-er isn't till Albert Pujols in 2028.
Anyway, with 207 ballots now known (~54% of the total), here's the vote situation:
99.0% Adrian Beltre (205/207) (1st year)
83.1% Joe Mauer (1st year)
82.1% Todd Helton (6th year; net +3 from 2023, missed by 11 votes last year)
77.8% Billy Wagner (9th year; net +7, missed by 27)
---
74.9% Gary Sheffield (10th year; net +16, missed by 78)
70.0% Andruw Jones (7th year, net +3, missed by 66)
66.7% Carlos Beltran (2nd year, net +20, missed by 111)
39.6% Chase Utley (1st year)
39.1% Alex Rodriguez (3rd year, net -1)
35.3% Manny Ramirez (8th year, net -2)
17.9% Bobby Abreu (5th year, net -2)
15.9% Andy Pettitte (6th year, net -4)
All others <15%, though Pettitte now clears that bar for the first time.
Helton +0.5%, Wagner -1.0% and Sheffield and Mauer flat even since last update. The top 3 look pretty solid for election this year; Helton could get as few as 66.7% of the remaining ballots and still be inducted, which would be a public-private split of -15.4%; last year, his public-private split was -12.7% and in 2022 it was -13.4%, so he should squeak through.
Sheffield being the 2nd-leading vote-flipper this year (+16 among known returners) was not one I saw coming, but I guess he doesn't have quite the same steroids stink as his slugger contemporaries. I think there's no way he gets more vote share on the private ballots than on the public ballots, so he probably just misses tonight, and has to wait for the Veterans Committee (which he's likely to get, based on my analysis upthread).
Jones is +2.3% since last update, and now that he's at 70% (on his 7th ballot), I think he probably makes it next year. Likewise Beltran (+2.0% since last update and at +20 vote flippers clearly a growing favorite), plus Wagner, who I think probably falls short this year but has one final year remaining and will get that sympathy push. Utley has dropped a full -5.3% since last update, it's a strong debut ballot but if he's going to get in it will probably take a while. Manny down -2.2%, clearly going nowhere
So 2025 ballot looks pretty good for a class of Wagner, A. Jones and Beltran, alongside debutants Ichiro plus maybe Sabathia or Pedroia. Could be much smaller classes for a few years after that, with Utley the only likely momentum guy. 2026: Cole Hamels, Ryan Braun. 2027: Buster Posey, Jon Lester, Brett Gardner. Next surefire first-ballot-er isn't till Albert Pujols in 2028.
It's weird how Andruw Jones might make the Hall of Fame while Jim Edmonds quickly dropped off the ballot. I know the advanced stats say Edmonds was overrated as a defender, but the guy still played centerfield his whole career and put up a 132 OPS+, miles ahead of Jones. And as far as I know Edmonds was never arrested for beating his wife.
Does net +/- N mean that they received N more/fewer total public votes than last year, or that their share of the public vote is approximately N percent higher or lower than last year? If Helton missed by 11 votes last year and only got 3 more public votes than last year then he'd need to get 8 more private votes, which doesn't seem that likely if he only picked up 3 public votes since there are fewer private votes than public votes. But if his share of the public vote is 3% higher then he must have picked up 6 public votes and would only need to pick up 5 private votes, which seems a lot more reasonable.Final tracker roundup, in advance of announcement at 6pm ET tonight. Tune into the MLB Network starting now for a full EIGHT HOURS OF LEAD-UP COVERAGE GOOD CHRIST AMIGHTY.
Anyway, with 207 ballots now known (~54% of the total), here's the vote situation:
99.0% Adrian Beltre (205/207) (1st year)
83.1% Joe Mauer (1st year)
82.1% Todd Helton (6th year; net +3 from 2023, missed by 11 votes last year)
77.8% Billy Wagner (9th year; net +7, missed by 27)
---
74.9% Gary Sheffield (10th year; net +16, missed by 78)
70.0% Andruw Jones (7th year, net +3, missed by 66)
66.7% Carlos Beltran (2nd year, net +20, missed by 111)
39.6% Chase Utley (1st year)
39.1% Alex Rodriguez (3rd year, net -1)
35.3% Manny Ramirez (8th year, net -2)
17.9% Bobby Abreu (5th year, net -2)
15.9% Andy Pettitte (6th year, net -4)
All others <15%, though Pettitte now clears that bar for the first time.
Helton +0.5%, Wagner -1.0% and Sheffield and Mauer flat even since last update. The top 3 look pretty solid for election this year; Helton could get as few as 66.7% of the remaining ballots and still be inducted, which would be a public-private split of -15.4%; last year, his public-private split was -12.7% and in 2022 it was -13.4%, so he should squeak through.
Sheffield being the 2nd-leading vote-flipper this year (+16 among known returners) was not one I saw coming, but I guess he doesn't have quite the same steroids stink as his slugger contemporaries. I think there's no way he gets more vote share on the private ballots than on the public ballots, so he probably just misses tonight, and has to wait for the Veterans Committee (which he's likely to get, based on my analysis upthread).
Jones is +2.3% since last update, and now that he's at 70% (on his 7th ballot), I think he probably makes it next year. Likewise Beltran (+2.0% since last update and at +20 vote flippers clearly a growing favorite), plus Wagner, who I think probably falls short this year but has one final year remaining and will get that sympathy push. Utley has dropped a full -5.3% since last update, it's a strong debut ballot but if he's going to get in it will probably take a while. Manny down -2.2%, clearly going nowhere
So 2025 ballot looks pretty good for a class of Wagner, A. Jones and Beltran, alongside debutants Ichiro plus maybe Sabathia or Pedroia. Could be much smaller classes for a few years after that, with Utley the only likely momentum guy. 2026: Cole Hamels, Ryan Braun. 2027: Buster Posey, Jon Lester, Brett Gardner. Next surefire first-ballot-er isn't till Albert Pujols in 2028.
Of the voters who made their ballots public last year and have done so again thus far this year, the number of those who didn't vote for him last year but did this year (votes gained), minus the number who voted for him last year but who didn't this year (votes lost). That's your plus-minus among returning voters.
It's one source of knowledge about the change in a player's vote share, but equally significant are new voters joining the panel and old voters retiring / losing the vote. But it provides a view into whether opinions on someone are evolving, rather than just the electorate getting incrementally refreshed.
Posey might not be surefire first-ballot-er, but I think he's pretty close to it.
An interesting case. Imagine he gets in because of his position, but I’d argue that Pedroia has just as good an argument and I’m skeptical he makes it. Posey is just really light on the counting stats.
Posey will be an interesting case, amazing peak and really only one down year, but the counting stats are low for a modern inductee. Could see him getting voted in by the writers, could see him waiting for the Eras
EDIT: Fairly or not, I don't think Pedroia has much of a shot. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
Posey is 660th in career hits; fewer than Christian Yelich. But, more than Hack Wilson, Chick Hafey, Roy Campanella, and Ralph Kiner. Definitely will be interesting, I think he gets in- tend to think guys who retire close to their peak are remembered much more favorably.
No way Pedroia is getting in 1st ballot with Utley likely only getting ~40% his first time. I suppose Pedroia has the MVP and gold gloves that Utley doesn't have but at most I think that levels the field. Also crazy how Utley never won a gold glove.
Among second basemen (including the last three 2B inductees for comparison):
Career bWAR:
Among second basemen (including the last three 2B inductees for comparison):
Career bWAR:
- Sandberg: 67.9 (11th all time)
- Alomar: 67.0 (12th)
- Biggio: 65.4 (14th)
- Utley: 64.5 (15th)
- Pedroia: 51.9 (22nd)
- Utley: 49.3 (9th)
- Sandberg: 47.1 (10th)
- Alomar: 42.9 (14th)
- Biggio: 41.8 (15th)
- Pedroia: 41.0 (16th)
- Sandberg: 57.5 (11th)
- Utley: 56.9 (12th)
- Alomar: 55.0 (14th)
- Biggio: 53.6 (15th)
- Pedroia: 46.5 (19th)
Beltre, Mauer and Helton all get in
Rockies should get a boost to FA’s wanting to come there, no?
Rockies should get a boost to FA’s wanting to come there, no?
He was in the Mitchell Report and worked out with Bonds (depends how much you trust Game of Shadows) and played for a lot of teams and was never really the best.
And other off field issues that Helton or Mauer never approached.
I don’t get Helton in reverse
I don’t get how Sheffield has like 2x the votes as Manny
The unrevealed voters, relative to the revealed ones, hated Mauer (only made it by 4 votes), Sheffield, and Utley (under 29%).
EDIT: Also Beltre, 95 is a bit low. Was there a group of empty ballots sent?
EDIT: Also Beltre, 95 is a bit low. Was there a group of empty ballots sent?
Why would it make any difference to literally any free agent? So no, not at all
Perhaps WAR defensive numbers are bullshit? I don't think anyone ever considered Utley in the same league as Pedroia or Alomar in their times. If someone's entire Hall of Fame argument relies on WAR, they probably don't deserve to get in.
It took Helton 6 years and Walker 10 years so no, it's actually far harder. That's ignoring that Coors now is totally different from when those guys played.
But they made it. Helton doesn’t get in if he plays elsewhere imho
he hit .287 on the road with an .855 OPS
Not up to 1B HOF standards
He was a 62 war player with a 133 ops+ and no postseason resume because the rockies always sucked. By JAWS he's the 15th best 1b of all time. He gets in way easier if he puts up those numbers anywhere else.
It’s ok, hall of fame visitors can marvel at the exploits of Harold Baines
Adjusted by who? Some 5th grader?
He hit 60 avg points and. 200 OPS points lower on the road
Sheffield dropping from 74.3% of the (final pre-results) vote down to 63.9% (actual vote) has got to be a record. That's a -10.4% delta. Last year, his Actual # to Pre-Results # delta was -7.6%. Some people must've really hated him, like Doc Holliday / Johnny Ringo grade hate.
I just wonder what the HOF will euphemistically call the era committee they convene to put all of them in "without regard to PED violations". The Needle Era Committee? Jolt and the Juice committee?
I don't agree with the voters' exclusion of (confirmed) steroid users, and would have voted for Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod and Manny (and possibly McGwire, Sosa, I'd even give Palmeiro a hearing-out). But I don't think their exclusion makes the Hall "a joke". The voters are being pretty internally-consistent about it. Everyone who's not getting the votes their careers would otherwise have merited were suspended for steroids violations, some of them twice. David Ortiz and Gary Sheffield, even though named on the Mitchell Report, never were - and they've had no problems.
I just wonder what the HOF will euphemistically call the era committee they convene to put all of them in "without regard to PED violations". The Needle Era Committee? Jolt and the Juice committee?
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I love, love Beltre and I would have put his name in black sharpie if I were voted. With that said I’m surprised that he got 95%+. He seemed like a good candidate for the first ballot purists to pass by. Happy to be wrong.
I want to believe you can't actually be this dumb, but you make it really hard sometimes