2024 Dolphins: Throw the Damn Towel

[sodenj5]

Thursday Night Football is officially cursed for Tua and Miami.

Obviously getting completely blown out on a national game is never fun, but seeing Tua go down like that again is horrifying. I legitimately felt sick to my stomach.

I love Tua. I am very concerned for his long term health. That contact last night was not that crazy, but it was a blow to the head/neck. It tells me that his health is very fragile.

He managed to make it through last year by miraculously avoiding contact and a lot of self preservation. Now they ask him to make more plays with his legs, and 6 quarters into the season, he’s diving head first after getting a first down, and he’s concussed. He’s always going to be one hit away from a potentially life altering event.

 

[Silverdude2167]

It's time for Tua to hang them up.

He has all the money he and his kids will ever need now, get out with whatever health you have left and enjoy life.

 

[Justthetippett]

Thursday Night Football is officially cursed for Tua and Miami.

Obviously getting completely blown out on a national game is never fun, but seeing Tua go down like that again is horrifying. I legitimately felt sick to my stomach.

I love Tua. I am very concerned for his long term health. That contact last night was not that crazy, but it was a blow to the head/neck. It tells me that his health is very fragile.

He managed to make it through last year by miraculously avoiding contact and a lot of self preservation. Now they ask him to make more plays with his legs, and 6 quarters into the season, he’s diving head first after getting a first down, and he’s concussed. He’s always going to be one hit away from a potentially life altering event.

It was ugly. He's a fun player and a good competitor, and a really good fit for their system. I'm also sure he'll still feel as though he can play after the worst effects of this subside in the coming weeks. But he's gotta think seriously about hanging them up. Tua ending up with serious long term symptoms will be the least surprising thing to happen in the concussion/CTE drama. Hopefully the guaranteed money in his new contract leads him to the decision that it's enough.

 

[sodenj5]

It's time for Tua to hang them up.

He has all the money he and his kids will ever need now, get out with whatever health you have left and enjoy life.

Between 2022 and now, Tua has ticked a lot of career boxes last year. He played a full season, he lead the league in passing, he played in a playoff game, made a Pro Bowl, and signed a second contract.

I think it’s easy to see why he probably wanted to continue playing in 2023 with how 2022 ended and how much he still had left to prove.

Obviously his career would still feel a bit incomplete, but he’s proven quite a bit. Literally no one would blame him if he decided to hang it up. I fear that he won’t.

He’s said one of his motivations for continuing to play is he wants his son see and understand that his dad plays football for a living. That’s cool and all, but I’m pretty sure his son would prefer having a dad instead of another highlight video on YouTube of passes to Tyreek Hill.

 

[axx]

Between 2022 and now, Tua has ticked a lot of career boxes last year. He played a full season, he lead the league in passing, he played in a playoff game, made a Pro Bowl, and signed a second contract.

And that was the risk the Dolphins took giving him that second contract knowing that he was another concussion from possibly retiring.

I'll say that he goes on IR at least.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

What an awful looking hit, again. He's got $167m in injury guarantees. I'm afraid it's time to hang it up. He is a fun player to watch and seems like a good guy.

 

[Mooch]

Allowing Tua to play another down of football would be malpractice of the highest sort. He’s had three huge concussions in the past few seasons. I wouldn’t be able to watch him knowing that the next one might cause permanent damage.

 

[cornwalls@6]

At minimum, he needs to be out for the season. Hopefully, he has the conversations with his family during that time frame that lead him to conclude it is time to stop playing football. It’s very easy from a distance to tell a guy in his twenties to never do the thing he loves to do, and is among the best in the world at, ever again. But he’s really getting into very frightening territory in terms of what the next concussion could do to him. I hope the people closest to him can convince him it’s just not worth it.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

What an awful looking hit, again. He's got $167m in injury guarantees. I'm afraid it's time to hang it up. He is a fun player to watch and seems like a good guy.

Your second and third sentence contradict each other.

If he's going to hang them up, it won't be official. It would be malpractice to officially retire and walk away from that much money.

 

[sodenj5]

Allowing Tua to play another down of football would be malpractice of the highest sort. He’s had three huge concussions in the past few seasons. I wouldn’t be able to watch him knowing that the next one might cause permanent damage.

The problem is the players union would likely fight that assertion assuming Tua clears protocol and gets signed off to resume playing. It also sets a very slippery precedent for the league to essentially step in and say anyone fit and able can’t play since it is built on the backs of countless injuries and concussions and CTE.

Really, the only person that can withhold Tua from playing is Tua himself. It’s up to him and hopefully the ones closest to him to try and really evaluate his future.

 

[cshea]

I don’t think the injury guarantees in the contract mean much. The Dolphins would find a doctor that would clear him and say he is healthy.

 

[cornwalls@6]

Would the likely outcome of a hypothetical retirement be a pretty lucrative injury settlement? Not the full $167 million, but more than enough to make the decision ?

 

[Van Everyman]

I always wonder how much of a role his horrible, toxic father plays in all this.

Tua has this almost preternatural need to extend every play and get every last yard. And as much as they’ve tried to coach him to take care of himself—and last night was a perfect example, since he already had the first down—he just can’t adjust his playing style.

He should retire. But whether the old man lets him is another story.

 

[P'tucket rhymes with...]

Thursday Night Football is officially cursed for Tua and Miami.

Obviously getting completely blown out on a national game is never fun, but seeing Tua go down like that again is horrifying. I legitimately felt sick to my stomach.

I love Tua. I am very concerned for his long term health. That contact last night was not that crazy, but it was a blow to the head/neck. It tells me that his health is very fragile.

He managed to make it through last year by miraculously avoiding contact and a lot of self preservation. Now they ask him to make more plays with his legs, and 6 quarters into the season, he’s diving head first after getting a first down, and he’s concussed. He’s always going to be one hit away from a potentially life altering event.

There's a strong possibility that that's already happened at least twice. I hope he can make the wise choice this time around; the NFL seems to be content with letting him play until he dies of a seizure on the Phins logo during a game.

 

[cshea]

Would the likely outcome of a hypothetical retirement be a pretty lucrative injury settlement? Not the full $167 million, but more than enough to make the decision ?

Yeah they could reach an injury settlement. NFL owners are notoriously cheap dicks though.

Tua has made about $73 million in NFL earnings so far, plus whatever off field endorement money he's brought in.

 

[Justthetippett]

I always wonder how much of a role his horrible, toxic father plays in all this.

Tua has this almost preternatural need to extend every play and get every last yard. And as much as they’ve tried to coach him to take care of himself—and last night was a perfect example, since he already had the first down—he just can’t adjust his playing style.

He should retire. But whether the old man lets him is another story.

I don't know the family history, but seems like they can declare victory here. National championship, R1 pick, lucrative second contract... That's success by any reasonable measure. All that said, and sadly, I'd say the chances of him hanging it up are small unless he gets a really scary diagnosis.

 

[sodenj5]

I always wonder how much of a role his horrible, toxic father plays in all this.

Tua has this almost preternatural need to extend every play and get every last yard. And as much as they’ve tried to coach him to take care of himself—and last night was a perfect example, since he already had the first down—he just can’t adjust his playing style.

He should retire. But whether the old man lets him is another story.

What concerned me about all of this talk about Tua slimming down and extending plays was exactly this. They managed to keep him healthy by having him completely removed from these situations and in self preservation mode.

They give him a little bit of leeway and he immediately goes and puts the Superman cape back on. I mean, football players are competitive, and I feel like it was Tua trying to make a play and generate a spark for his team that was looking pretty lethargic. I don’t think he really thought about it much further than “make a play.”

 

[DJnVa]

He talked about retiring last time. I think this could be it.

As the QB of a rival, I "dislike" him, but that's only football dislike obviously. This sucks.

 

[Joe D Reid]

It's interesting, because a lot of the CTE research has shown that it is cumulative sub-concussive blows that cause a lot of the damage. But you can't watch a guy have multiple fencing reactions without worrying--the closest comp I can think of is Chuck Liddell and that's not good.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I always wonder how much of a role his horrible, toxic father plays in all this.

Tua has this almost preternatural need to extend every play and get every last yard. And as much as they’ve tried to coach him to take care of himself—and last night was a perfect example, since he already had the first down—he just can’t adjust his playing style.

He should retire. But whether the old man lets him is another story.

Heard an interview with Dion Dawkins. Even opposing team OL were begging for him to slide. He can’t protect himself on the field so hopefully he finally realizes he needs to hang them up.

 

[soxhop411]

manti te'o spoke about Tua on GMF today. And the segment is worth a watch in its entirety

View: https://twitter.com/gmfb/status/1834571933343703370?s=46

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

Respect and concern for Tua (sincerely), but turning back to football for a second -- Achane is incredible. Runs so hard, is decisive and intelligent about picking his holes, and elusive as hell. So much fun to watch.

 

[sodenj5]

Respect and concern for Tua (sincerely), but turning back to football for a second -- Achane is incredible. Runs so hard, is decisive and intelligent about picking his holes, and elusive as hell. So much fun to watch.

For a smaller guy, his ability to play through contact and his contact balance is really nutty. It looks like his pass catching ability has leveled up as well. He’s made a few really nice snags on swings and screens already.

 

[riboflav]

Respectfully, some of the takes in here are pretty naive. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him out there next week or maybe the week after. Retire? Wow. I highly doubt it.

 

[BaseballJones]

Respectfully, some of the takes in here are pretty naive. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him out there next week or maybe the week after. Retire? Wow. I highly doubt it.

Why is that naïve? There's been a few guys recently that have retired at young ages because (so they've said) they want to leave the game healthy. Tua has already earned $74 million in his career. Obviously there's a lot more that he could make if he keeps playing, but $73 million - even cut in half from taxes - is a hell of a lot of money, more than enough to provide for generations for his family. He has the rest of his life to live and doesn't want his brain scrambled. I'm not saying he *will* retire, but other guys have retired at young ages so it wouldn't be unheard of.

 

[glennhoffmania]

This is crazy, right? From a football perspective I don't know if it makes sense. From a personal perspective my head would explode.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/former-nfl-qb-predicts-tom-brady-will-sign-with-dolphins-after-tua-tagovailoa-goes-down-with-concussion/

 

[Jimbodandy]

Sucks that the kid just couldn't stay on plan. I love the competitiveness, but gotta save yourself here man.

Fins have a pretty decent OL and drafted one of my binkies in the 2nd round this year even though they didn't even really need a tackle. But an OL can't protect a guy trying to squeeze a couple of extra yards on the end of a run down 21.

 

[Silverdude2167]

This is crazy, right? From a football perspective I don't know if it makes sense. From a personal perspective my head would explode.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/former-nfl-qb-predicts-tom-brady-will-sign-with-dolphins-after-tua-tagovailoa-goes-down-with-concussion/

I don't think the O-line is good enough for Brady to play behind. He still has the brain, but the arm needs a clean pocket.

 

[E5 Yaz]

This is crazy, right? From a football perspective I don't know if it makes sense. From a personal perspective my head would explode.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/former-nfl-qb-predicts-tom-brady-will-sign-with-dolphins-after-tua-tagovailoa-goes-down-with-concussion/

If you can't trust the insights of Delvin "Duck" Hodges, who can you trust?

 

[johnmd20]

I don't think the O-line is good enough for Brady to play behind. He still has the brain, but the arm needs a clean pocket.

With the Dolphins' speed and Brady's quick release and processing, a 44 year old Tom Brady would be perfect on this team. A 47 year old Tom Brady isn't going back to the NFL. He's too old.

edit - plus Brady's cannon would be so well suited for this team with Hill and Waddle taking the top off the defense on every play. Tua has a weak arm. Brady can huck it, still. But, he's too old.

 

[sodenj5]

With the Dolphins' speed and Brady's quick release and processing, a 44 year old Tom Brady would be perfect on this team. A 47 year old Tom Brady isn't going back to the NFL. He's too old.

edit - plus Brady's cannon would be so well suited for this team with Hill and Waddle taking the top off the defense on every play. Tua has a weak arm. Brady can huck it, still. But, he's too old.

Sheesh, we’re doing this again? Tua’s arm is plenty strong enough. He’s one of the best deep baller throwers in the NFL. There are guys that have more arm strength, sure. But Tua is plenty capable of maximizing the talents of Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle.

Tom Brady isn’t adding a dimension that was lacking with Tua at QB. And Tom Brady may not even play as well as Tua considering the state of our offensive line. Tua makes the offense work because he’s so good at masking the stench of the line.

 

[johnmd20]

Sheesh, we’re doing this again? Tua’s arm is plenty strong enough. He’s one of the best deep baller throwers in the NFL. There are guys that have more arm strength, sure. But Tua is plenty capable of maximizing the talents of Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle.

Tom Brady isn’t adding a dimension that was lacking with Tua at QB. And Tom Brady isn’t may not even play as well as Tua considering the state of our offensive line. Tua makes the offense work because he’s so good at masking the stench of the line.

Brady has a better arm than Tua. I'd go so far as to say much better. Tua doesn't have a strong arm for an NFL QB and I don't think that is a controversial take.

And we can keep doing this again. Tua constantly underthrows Hill. It's a meme. His deep passing stats are solid but that is because of scheme, Hill, and Waddle. Anyone would have great deep passing numbers on this offense. #1 last year was Brock Purdy, by the way. Scheme and talent kind of impacts how things go on the field.

A 44 year old Brady would be better for this offense and would win playoff games and give KC a run. Brady won the SB at 43 and playoff games at 44.

 

[glennhoffmania]

I love Tua, but I agree with John. His arm strength is pretty shitty. He's great on timing routes and deep balls to great WRs. His intermediate throws are shit. The ball seems to be in the air forever. The INT of the attempted throw away last night was a good example. He just can't get enough on it. As long as he has guys like Hill and Waddle he'll be a solid QB but without them he'd have issues.

I don't know if Brady would be an upgrade overall but I'd bet that his arm is stronger at this point.

 

[Euclis20]

This is crazy, right? From a football perspective I don't know if it makes sense. From a personal perspective my head would explode.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/former-nfl-qb-predicts-tom-brady-will-sign-with-dolphins-after-tua-tagovailoa-goes-down-with-concussion/

12 months ago this could be a believable possibility, but 20 months since he last played, at age 47, it seems impossible. If anyone can do it it would be Brady, but that doesn't mean it can be done.

 

[AlNipper49]

Or should be done. If anything, Tua is a reminder of why he should remain precisely where he is.

From a practical standpoint it would likely be a complete pain unwinding his media and team purchase stuff.

 

[Mooch]

Why is that naïve? There's been a few guys recently that have retired at young ages because (so they've said) they want to leave the game healthy. Tua has already earned $74 million in his career. Obviously there's a lot more that he could make if he keeps playing, but $73 million - even cut in half from taxes - is a hell of a lot of money, more than enough to provide for generations for his family. He has the rest of his life to live and doesn't want his brain scrambled. I'm not saying he *will* retire, but other guys have retired at young ages so it wouldn't be unheard of.

I think there are going to be a lot of people in his life and all over the sport who think he should retire: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/41246916/raiders-pierce-tua-tagovailoa-tell-retire

 

[DJnVa]

Respectfully, some of the takes in here are pretty naive. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him out there next week or maybe the week after. Retire? Wow. I highly doubt it.

You realize we're basing that in part on what he said after the last time this happened? And that's before he had $100M plus locked in.

And as far as playing next week, even the most aggressive estimates think it'll be a few weeks.

 

[rodderick]

Brady has a better arm than Tua. I'd go so far as to say much better. Tua doesn't have a strong arm for an NFL QB and I don't think that is a controversial take.

And we can keep doing this again. Tua constantly underthrows Hill. It's a meme. His deep passing stats are solid but that is because of scheme, Hill, and Waddle. Anyone would have great deep passing numbers on this offense. #1 last year was Brock Purdy, by the way. Scheme and talent kind of impacts how things go on the field.

A 44 year old Brady would be better for this offense and would win playoff games and give KC a run. Brady won the SB at 43 and playoff games at 44.

The 2021 version of Brady would win MVP and take the Dolphins to the AFCCG.

 

[riboflav]

You realize we're basing that in part on what he said after the last time this happened? And that's before he had $100M plus locked in.

And as far as playing next week, even the most aggressive estimates think it'll be a few weeks.

That's fair.

Here's how I think this goes and I'm more than happy to be wrong.

1. His upbringing was something else (would beat him with a belt about football) and it seems his dad has had even by dad's standards an outsized role in all things football for him and not in a healthy way.

2. If he's cleared, which he will be bc this is the NFL, and he walks away, he is leaving I believe 124 million dollars guaranteed on the table. He doesn't necessarily see another dime. That is, unless the Dolphins decide to settle which from I have observed is rare. Also, FWIW, Andrew Luck made just about twice the money Tua has so far.

3. For every Tua, there are what 30? 40? 50? other NFL players who suffer from concussions each week, some noted, most not, and they don't walk away. A poster upthread mentioned the few NFL players who prominently have walked away. OK. That is still rare considering the sport and the high number of concussions being delivered every week. It is naive to believe that the what? there are only the concussions that of a handful reported each week? Guys are getting concussed in droves and we know this based on all the research and they still play.

 

[Average Reds]

Respectfully, some of the takes in here are pretty naive. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him out there next week or maybe the week after. Retire? Wow. I highly doubt it.

You’re right about concussions being a sad reality for NFL players and that it’s (unfortunately) still routine for them to play through then. However, because of his high profile, Tua isn’t going to see the field for several weeks at the earliest.

That said, I agree that he’s not going to retire unless he can’t be cleared to return. And he will be cleared.

 

[johnmd20]

You’re right about concussions being a sad reality for NFL players and that it’s (unfortunately) still routine for them to play through then. However, because of his high profile, Tua isn’t going to see the field for several weeks at the earliest.

That said, I agree that he’s not going to retire unless he can’t be cleared to return. And he will be cleared.

I agree. I think one more bad concussion ends it but he will play again.

After the last one in 2022 people were saying Tua would retire. I was vehement in my expectation that he would play again because he's a football player and the money was too big. Football players play football.(right or wrong, it's the reality)

He's still a football player but in this instance, he now has the money. But I do think he gives it one more shot. He is definitely on thin ice and it's scary.

 

[sodenj5]

I agree. I think one more bad concussion ends it but he will play again.

After the last one in 2022 people were saying Tua would retire. I was vehement in my expectation that he would play again because he's a football player and the money was too big. Football players play football.(right or wrong, it's the reality)

He's still a football player but in this instance, he now has the money. But I do think he gives it one more shot. He is definitely on thin ice and it's scary.

It’s Tua’s decision to make, but you really have to wonder what is his breaking point in terms of the risk he’s willing to continue accepting. Obviously, in his head he must think that he’s still only 26 and he could conceivably continue playing good football for the better part of a decade, with at least one more additional big pay day in his future.

It’s easy for bystanders like us to say, you have enough money and you’ve done enough, walk away from the only thing you’ve ever done as you’re entering your prime. For him, that’s probably a very significant pill to swallow.

 

[johnmd20]

It’s Tua’s decision to make, but you really have to wonder what is his breaking point in terms of the risk he’s willing to continue accepting. Obviously, in his head he must think that he’s still only 26 and he could conceivably continue playing good football for the better part of a decade, with at least one more additional big pay day in his future.

It’s easy for bystanders like us to say, you have enough money and you’ve done enough, walk away from the only thing you’ve ever done as you’re entering your prime. For him, that’s probably a very significant pill to swallow.

I agree. Like I said, he's a football player.

It's SO easy for bystanders with no skin in the game to tell someone else what to do.

 

[Justthetippett]

It’s Tua’s decision to make, but you really have to wonder what is his breaking point in terms of the risk he’s willing to continue accepting. Obviously, in his head he must think that he’s still only 26 and he could conceivably continue playing good football for the better part of a decade, with at least one more additional big pay day in his future.

It’s easy for bystanders like us to say, you have enough money and you’ve done enough, walk away from the only thing you’ve ever done as you’re entering your prime. For him, that’s probably a very significant pill to swallow.

Which is why he won't make this decision on anyone else's timetable. He needs to take his time. All the retire now takes are predictable, and he may land there, but there's no rush as long as he's not playing.

By the way, poor Hamlin. He must think he's cursed or something. Guy didn't do anything wrong and nearly died, now he might have been part of a play that ended a promising career just by taking a hit. I know these guys all know the risks, but that's still a shitty situation for him or any other player.

 

[streeter88]

By the way, poor Hamlin. He must think he's cursed or something. Guy didn't do anything wrong and nearly died, now he might have been part of a play that ended a promising career just by taking a hit. I know these guys all know the risks, but that's still a shitty situation for him or any other player.

Reasonable take. So often we think about the person who had the injury / concussion, but if Hamlin’s at all thoughtful, he might be a bit shaken as well.

 

[DJnVa]

I agree. Like I said, he's a football player.

It's SO easy for bystanders with no skin in the game to tell someone else what to do.

It is, but a lot of football players are saying he should retire too. Even Antonio Brown made a non-crazy tweet about it.

 

[Van Everyman]

Ian Rappaport is reporting Tua has no plans to retire and is looking for a specialist and his eyes are already on returning to the football field.

Not surprising but man, you’d sure like him to at least say he wants to continue playing football as long as he can but will be evaluating all his options to do what’s best for him and his family.

 

[johnmd20]

Reasonable take. So often we think about the person who had the injury / concussion, but if Hamlin’s at all thoughtful, he might be a bit shaken as well.

Hamlin died on the field two years ago and he's back to playing football. I'm sure he's pretty thoughtful about the risks of football.

But I'm guessing he's not too broken up about this play. First off, he actually died on the football field. Second, Tua ran into him and led with his head. Hamlin was just standing in the way. What's to be thoughtful about? Does Bernard Pollard think about his shitty hits over his career?

 

[Van Everyman]

FWIW, Mariucci on NFLN talking about the calculus for McDaniel and comparing it to his experience with Young getting concussed at 38 and how actively pushing against Young returning to the field actually kind of submarined his coaching career once Young retired.

The conversation people need to be moving away from isn’t what Tua wants and what a warrior he is—he’s an athlete, of course he wants to compete—to what the team and support team around him can and should do for his health. Ultimately it is Tua’s choice but as Mariucci showed, the team isn’t exactly helpless here.

 

[sodenj5]

FWIW, Mariucci on NFLN talking about the calculus for McDaniel and comparing it to his experience with Young getting concussed at 38 and how actively pushing against Young returning to the field actually kind of submarined his coaching career once Young retired.

The conversation people need to be moving away from isn’t what Tua wants and what a warrior he is—he’s an athlete, of course he wants to compete—to what the team and support team around him can and should do for his health. Ultimately it is Tua’s choice but as Mariucci showed, the team isn’t exactly helpless here.

I think McDaniel is in a bit of a no-win situation. He doesn’t really hold any power. If he pushes against Tua returning, all of the goodwill and belief and equity he’s built with Tua goes out the window. He’s essentially acknowledged that in his press conference his personal opinion doesn’t matter that much.

Also, again, the player’s union would likely get involved if Tua was adamant about playing, doctors had cleared him, and McDaniel or the “organization” was not allowing him to play.

It’s a lot of posturing. Saying McDaniel should do something other than listen to the doctors and Tua is basically nonsense.