2024-2025 Sixers: Maxey-mizing or Minimizing?

snowmanny

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It's times like these that we truly miss LondonSox . He would've had some righteous rants that would make a sailor blush.
I went out of my way with him to pretend the Sixers were a real threat, even picked them over the Celtics one year although I didn’t believe that, but he’s gone anyway.

To New England/Boston fans, Embiid is turning into the basketball version of Andrew Luck, who was the next big thing, and was frequently ranked above Brady by idiots, but could never once beat the Patriots and then one day was…gone.
 

Euclis20

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I went out of my way with him to pretend the Sixers were a real threat, even picked them over the Celtics one year although I didn’t believe that, but he’s gone anyway.

To New England/Boston fans, Embiid is turning into the basketball version of Andrew Luck, who was the next big thing, and was frequently ranked above Brady by idiots, but could never once beat the Patriots and then one day was…gone.
Did anyone ever rank Luck above Brady? I can see one year when that was a possibility (2014, when he led the league in TDs) but his entire career was pretty blah otherwise. I know he was the next big thing and Colts fans were pretty excited, but he was never close to Brady, and while I like to rip on Embiid as much as anyone, Luck was never remotely on his level either.
 

Devizier

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What strikes me is that the Sixers could have realized all that potential with a little more patience and better coaching hires.
 

Euclis20

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Agree that Luck was never as good as Embiid’s peak. Well, Chris Simms* had Luck ranked 2 and Brady out of the top 5 in 2014, and this one had Luck @ 3 and Brady @ 4:

https://www.ganggreennation.com/2015/5/23/8650227/ranking-the-32-nfl-quarterbacks-in-2015

My recollection is that the Luck helium was very high for awhile.

* Using this guy as an example may not be the best evidence.
.
Chris Simms had this weird bug up his ass about Brady for most of his career:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/vhst24/since_the_2014_season_chris_simms_has_listed/

"Tom Brady was not an elite QB over the back half of his career" is like the dumbest hill ever to die on, but that's where you'll find Simms and pretty much just Simms (maybe Rob Parker too).
 

TripleOT

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Chris Simms had this weird bug up his ass about Brady for most of his career:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/vhst24/since_the_2014_season_chris_simms_has_listed/

"Tom Brady was not an elite QB over the back half of his career" is like the dumbest hill ever to die on, but that's where you'll find Simms and pretty much just Simms (maybe Rob Parker too).
Tom Brady had two Hall of Fame careers, his first 10 year, when he won three Super Bowls, and his last
10, when he won four.
 

Euclis20

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Tom Brady had two Hall of Fame careers, his first 10 year, when he won three Super Bowls, and his last
10, when he won four.
He had 3 HOF careers. 2000-2006 when he won 3 super bowls (Aikman), 2007-2013 when he won 2 MVPs and got to 2 super bowls (Marino) and 2014-2022, when he won another MVP and won 4 more super bowls (Montana). GJGE, Chris Simms.
 

the moops

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People forget that Horford was quite good with Ben Simmons in his year in Philadelphia too. Those lineups were scary.

The 76ers are not a well-run franchise. I think Morey has been decent, all things considered, but his 2024 offseason was overrated. OMG he somehow found room for Eric Gordon, Caleb Martin, and Kelly Oubre!!!!
It obviously is looking bad but their offseason was about as good as possible wi the going the cap space route. There was a world where PG signs with the Clippers and none of those role players take the discount they did or take those discounts for a true contender. I suppose the results this year couldn’t really be any worse but the what ifs would have been staggering.
 

lovegtm

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It obviously is looking bad but their offseason was about as good as possible wi the going the cap space route. There was a world where PG signs with the Clippers and none of those role players take the discount they did or take those discounts for a true contender. I suppose the results this year couldn’t really be any worse but the what ifs would have been staggering.
Morey definitely made the best of a bad situation, but he also got them into that situation in the first place.

He started with Embiid, All-NBA (2020, right before Morey arrived) Ben Simmons, Al Horford, Maxey as a rookie, and basically all picks.

He ended up with Embiid, Maxey, few assets, and the ability to do a Hail Mary stripdown for PG because they got lucky with Maxey's extension timing.

He should get a LOT of credit for nailing this summer, but the poor results before meant that he had to build this top-heavy roster in a very specific way.

It's nearly the exact reverse of Brad, who started with picks, JT/JB/Smart, broken Kemba, and assets, and turned that into a juggernaut within 2 years.
 

Euclis20

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Morey definitely made the best of a bad situation, but he also got them into that situation in the first place.

He started with Embiid, All-NBA (2020, right before Morey arrived) Ben Simmons, Al Horford, Maxey as a rookie, and basically all picks.

He ended up with Embiid, Maxey, few assets, and the ability to do a Hail Mary stripdown for PG because they got lucky with Maxey's extension timing.

He should get a LOT of credit for nailing this summer, but the poor results before meant that he had to build this top-heavy roster in a very specific way.

It's nearly the exact reverse of Brad, who started with picks, JT/JB/Smart, broken Kemba, and assets, and turned that into a juggernaut within 2 years.
The bold has been said a lot (I've definitely posted the same), but was it really? It's not some terribly bad luck that has Paul George missing so much time, or Embiid's knee being far worse off than they hoped. Why do we assume that giving Paul George a max contact from ages 34-37 was a good idea, when he missed an average 25+ games per season from ages 29-33? Why do we assume that giving a 3 year max extension to Joel Embiid was a good idea, when Embiid missed half of last season (and never being healthy or available when it mattered in the past) and he was already signed for two more years? It's always a huge risk building a team as top heavy as Philly, doubly so when 2/3 of the big money guys are in their 30s and as injury prone as any all-star not named Kawhi. These moves were no-brainer great moves in a 2K world with injuries turned off, and where age and injury related declines are gradual. Their entire plan was a massive risk, just because there was a theoretical title ceiling doesn't mean he made the right moves along the way.
 

the moops

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The bold has been said a lot (I've definitely posted the same), but was it really? It's not some terribly bad luck that has Paul George missing so much time, or Embiid's knee being far worse off than they hoped. Why do we assume that giving Paul George a max contact from ages 34-37 was a good idea, when he missed an average 25+ games per season from ages 29-33? Why do we assume that giving a 3 year max extension to Joel Embiid was a good idea, when Embiid missed half of last season (and never being healthy or available when it mattered in the past) and he was already signed for two more years? It's always a huge risk building a team as top heavy as Philly, doubly so when 2/3 of the big money guys are in their 30s and as injury prone as any all-star not named Kawhi. These moves were no-brainer great moves in a 2K world with injuries turned off, and where age and injury related declines are gradual. Their entire plan was a massive risk, just because there was a theoretical title ceiling doesn't mean he made the right moves along the way.
I’m not sure they really had any choice. If Embiid is toast, so are they. They need to roll the dice and try and make the best of these next 3-4 years of Embiid. It’s not looking good but i’m not sure what the plausible alternative was.
 

Smokey Joe

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I’m not sure they really had any choice. If Embiid is toast, so are they. They need to roll the dice and try and make the best of these next 3-4 years of Embiid. It’s not looking good but i’m not sure what the plausible alternative was.
Trade and rebuild.
(But that’s not what you hire Morey to do.)
 

benhogan

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The bold has been said a lot (I've definitely posted the same), but was it really? It's not some terribly bad luck that has Paul George missing so much time, or Embiid's knee being far worse off than they hoped. Why do we assume that giving Paul George a max contact from ages 34-37 was a good idea, when he missed an average 25+ games per season from ages 29-33? Why do we assume that giving a 3 year max extension to Joel Embiid was a good idea, when Embiid missed half of last season (and never being healthy or available when it mattered in the past) and he was already signed for two more years? It's always a huge risk building a team as top heavy as Philly, doubly so when 2/3 of the big money guys are in their 30s and as injury prone as any all-star not named Kawhi. These moves were no-brainer great moves in a 2K world with injuries turned off, and where age and injury related declines are gradual. Their entire plan was a massive risk, just because there was a theoretical title ceiling doesn't mean he made the right moves along the way.
Thank you. 110% agree. The Embiid extension was completely unnecessary & Ballmer saying no thank you was a huge red flag on PG.

Immediately, felt Vegas had it wrong with Morey franken-steining this group together.
 

The Raccoon

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The 76ers find new ways to lose.
Last night against the Magic they lost by 4 in a game where they shot 11/19 from the FT line.
That 57.9% is worse than Ben Simmons FT career percentage.
Neither Embiid nor PG played so all will be fine very soon when they return, right...?
 

tims4wins

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The 76ers find new ways to lose.
Last night against the Magic they lost by 4 in a game where they shot 11/19 from the FT line.
That 57.9% is worse than Ben Simmons FT career percentage.
Neither Embiid nor PG played so all will be fine very soon when they return, right...?
What's crazy is that at 5-15, they are only 1 game back in the loss column of the play-in. The bottom of the East is really bad. It might only take low-30s to get there. To get to 35 wins they'd only need to go 30-32 the rest of the way. Obviously, .500 is significantly better than how they've been playing to date, but still.

That being said - I think we're inching ever closer to an "indefinite break" announcement for Embiid.
 

HomeRunBaker

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What's crazy is that at 5-15, they are only 1 game back in the loss column of the play-in. The bottom of the East is really bad. It might only take low-30s to get there. To get to 35 wins they'd only need to go 30-32 the rest of the way. Obviously, .500 is significantly better than how they've been playing to date, but still.

That being said - I think we're inching ever closer to an "indefinite break" announcement for Embiid.
I was telling someone a few weeks ago, it may have even been here, that I think we’ll see a sub-30 win team in the EC play-in.
 

benhogan

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What's crazy is that at 5-15, they are only 1 game back in the loss column of the play-in. The bottom of the East is really bad. It might only take low-30s to get there. To get to 35 wins they'd only need to go 30-32 the rest of the way. Obviously, .500 is significantly better than how they've been playing to date, but still.

That being said - I think we're inching ever closer to an "indefinite break" announcement for Embiid.
The EC is rotten. There was some happy talk in the pre-season about the EC being better this year.
Nope. It still stinks.

As a Celtic fan who watched the Showtime Lakers waltz into numerous Finals, I'm here for easier paths.
 

lovegtm

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We're into TL/Oden territory now, no?

He was playing hurt in the playoffs, looked bad in the Olympics. Then rested, came back....and then had "knee swelling."

Interested to hear from @radsoxfan , but this looks to me like what the beginning of the end usually looks like.
 

radsoxfan

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We're into TL/Oden territory now, no?

He was playing hurt in the playoffs, looked bad in the Olympics. Then rested, came back....and then had "knee swelling."

Interested to hear from @radsoxfan , but this looks to me like what the beginning of the end usually looks like.
If you showed me his MRI I'd have a much more useful answer.

Certainly is concerning for Embiid....meniscus tears, partial meniscetomy and persistent pain/swelling often end up being due to cartilage damage. Sometimes this stabilizes to some degree in the short/medium term, sometimes its just a progressive decline into worsening arthritis fairly quickly.

No way to really know from the outside but they must be worried to some degree.
 

benhogan

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We're into TL/Oden territory now, no?

He was playing hurt in the playoffs, looked bad in the Olympics. Then rested, came back....and then had "knee swelling."

Interested to hear from @radsoxfan , but this looks to me like what the beginning of the end usually looks like.
Has Joel been draining the knee? getting Synvisc injections, yet?

Kemba was 30 when his knee led to the cliff dive
 

Auger34

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We're into TL/Oden territory now, no?

He was playing hurt in the playoffs, looked bad in the Olympics. Then rested, came back....and then had "knee swelling."

Interested to hear from @radsoxfan , but this looks to me like what the beginning of the end usually looks like.
If I was a Sixer fan I would be furious that he played in the Olympics. Glad that he got to win something as a starter on a team, because that ain’t happening in the NBA, but man does that decision seem stupid
 

lovegtm

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If I was a Sixer fan I would be furious that he played in the Olympics. Glad that he got to win something as a starter on a team, because that ain’t happening in the NBA, but man does that decision seem stupid
True, although it's looking like the damage might have been done at that point already.
 

Euclis20

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We're into TL/Oden territory now, no?

He was playing hurt in the playoffs, looked bad in the Olympics. Then rested, came back....and then had "knee swelling."

Interested to hear from @radsoxfan , but this looks to me like what the beginning of the end usually looks like.
TL/Oden are in a different category as they (especially Oden) never got to have a prime due to injury. The common injury comparisons to Embiid seem to be guys like Blake Griffin and Amare Stoudemire...neither were quite as good as Embiid, but we did get to see how good both could be, made about a half dozen all-star and all-NBA teams each, then were done as quality players by age 30 due to multiple injuries. I wonder if at least in terms of the impact injuries have had (and will have) on their careers if Kawhi isn't a decent comp. Both got about as close as you can get to the top (MVP for Embiid, multiple finals MVPs for Kawhi) and for both I feel like we've seen the best they can be, but there should have been more of it.
 

lovegtm

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TL/Oden are in a different category as they (especially Oden) never got to have a prime due to injury. The common injury comparisons to Embiid seem to be guys like Blake Griffin and Amare Stoudemire...neither were quite as good as Embiid, but we did get to see how good both could be, made about a half dozen all-star and all-NBA teams each, then were done as quality players by age 30 due to multiple injuries. I wonder if at least in terms of the impact injuries have had (and will have) on their careers if Kawhi isn't a decent comp. Both got about as close as you can get to the top (MVP for Embiid, multiple finals MVPs for Kawhi) and for both I feel like we've seen the best they can be, but there should have been more of it.
Griffin is a good comp, even if he never hit those heights. He kept playing as his knees deteriorated, but he just kept diminishing.
 

RSN Diaspora

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TL has played in over twice as many games as Greg Oden. Crazy how short Oden's career was. 105 games over 7 years
I often think of the bullet we dodged in that draft. I remember being so disappointed that the ping pong balls didn't fall our way because of the huge drop-off after Oden and KD in that draft class. Imagine if we wound up with Oden instead of Ray Allen and possibly KG.
 

themuddychicken

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Danny Ainge was supposedly in love with Durant, and there was chatter at the time that he liked him more than Oden. I remember thinking that no one would draft Durant over Oden, but I also thought that no one would ever trade the #1 pick. Ainge essentially chose Tatum over the consensus #1 so maybe he would have done the same with Durant. Or maybe seeing Durant rise above Oden informed his decision to pick Tatum over the consensus #1.
 

HomeRunBaker

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George and Embiid both play; Sixers beat the Bulls. Look out, league!
I know everyone jokes about it and it doesn’t really affect the Celtics as I feel we control our own destiny against anyone…..but should they get Embiid, George and Maxey healthy for the play-in they are going to be a problem for some other teams.
 

Saints Rest

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Danny Ainge was supposedly in love with Durant, and there was chatter at the time that he liked him more than Oden. I remember thinking that no one would draft Durant over Oden, but I also thought that no one would ever trade the #1 pick. Ainge essentially chose Tatum over the consensus #1 so maybe he would have done the same with Durant. Or maybe seeing Durant rise above Oden informed his decision to pick Tatum over the consensus #1.
Fun Celtic-related bit from that draft. The 3rd overall pick, taken right after Durant, was our much-beloved Average Al Horford!
 

InstaFace

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Fun Celtic-related bit from that draft. The 3rd overall pick, taken right after Durant, was our much-beloved Average Al Horford!
A two-man draft, they called it. We called it, here in the Port Cellar, at the time. We "had the 5th pick in a two-man draft".

How wrong we were, and thankfully so.
 

benhogan

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I know everyone jokes about it and it doesn’t really affect the Celtics as I feel we control our own destiny against anyone…..but should they get Embiid, George and Maxey healthy for the play-in they are going to be a problem for some other teams.
darn, I was planning on having a Merry Christmas, now we have to worry about the big, bad 76ers
 

InstaFace

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darn, I was planning on having a Merry Christmas, now we have to worry about the big, bad 76ers
oh c'mon you know what HRB meant, he was careful to exclude the Celtics.

I do have some questions about how well they match up with Cleveland. I can see a world where Mobley gets completely pancaked by Embiid, and one where he's got the lower-body strength to hold up against him very well, Horford- or Grant-style.
 

benhogan

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oh c'mon you know what HRB meant, he was careful to exclude the Celtics.

I do have some questions about how well they match up with Cleveland. I can see a world where Mobley gets completely pancaked by Embiid, and one where he's got the lower-body strength to hold up against him very well, Horford- or Grant-style.
Yes if Embiid, PG and Maxey are all healthy they could be troublesome
 

benhogan

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You’re a Knicks fan??
The Celtics play the 76ers on Christmas Day.

There was a point this summer when the 76ers had one of the 4 best odds to win the NBA Championship.

It will suck for any 1 or 2 seed (Celtics included) to face the 76ers in R1 If Embiid, Maxey, and PG are all healthy.
 

snowmanny

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If they are all healthy it could reach a point where Nick Wright and Kendrick Perkins are picking them to beat the Celtics in the first round.
 

InstaFace

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"Could" reach a "point"? The only question will be whether they take the Sixers in 5 or 6 games.
Yes but much like Ron Borges and Bill Belichick once upon a time, the seasons may change but one thing we can always rely on is trolls like Perk and Wright picking against the Celtics in order to rile people up, regardless of the sporting merits. It's like a rite of spring, a sign that all is right again with the world.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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"Could" reach a "point"? The only question will be whether they take the Sixers in 5 or 6 games.
Yeah, I was thinking the narrative would be that PHI is playing at a 50-win pace since they went 5-15 and Embiid is playing like a MVP and the Cs can't match up to them.

However, if PHI plays at a 50-win pace since going 5-15, they'll end up with up 43 wins, which may likely mean that they are out of the play-in an into the 6th seed.

A NYK/PHI rematch in the 1st round would be a ratings bonanza!
 

snowmanny

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"Could" reach a "point"? The only question will be whether they take the Sixers in 5 or 6 games.
“The Sixers have the best player in this series, and, honestly, they have three of the best four. And maybe even four of the best five with that rookie I forget his name. Talent wins out.”