2023 Starting Rotation

Benj4ever

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Nov 21, 2022
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Give the loss to Cora for putting in Rodriguez instead of Sharriff in the first place. Sherriff looks like a find. Rodriguez has looked like a train wreck every time he's taken the mound.
 

Benj4ever

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Nov 21, 2022
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Except for the fact that he really hasn't.
Hey YTF, how's it going?

Yeah, that was some hyperbole (laziness) on my part. Going into last night's game, Rodriguez had been hit hard in two of four outings, whereas Sherriff was clean in both of his appearances. Given his work last night, I hope Rodriguez does mop-up only until he puts together a better string of outings.
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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Hey YTF, how's it going?

Yeah, that was some hyperbole (laziness) on my part. Going into last night's game, Rodriguez had been hit hard in two of four outings, whereas Sherriff was clean in both of his appearances. Given his work last night, I hope Rodriguez does mop-up only until he puts together a better string of outings.
Let's not put too much emphasis on two outings, both rather low leverage outings (up 3 and up 9). Sherriff's been in Worcester the last couple weeks and did get knocked around a bit in one of his three outings down there in the meantime.
 

Benj4ever

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Nov 21, 2022
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No, that's fine. I'd simply prefer Rodriguez get only low-leverage outings for the time being (until he gets better, or Sherriff implodes).
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Ideally, sure. But when the starters only go 4-5, you are going to be in a lot of situations where guys you don’t want pitching high leverage spots, are. The injury to Schreiber has really hurt them a lot, lately, I think. They seem to be holding back Martin and Jansen for the 8th-9th, which makes those middle innings a little dicey, especially if Winckowski or Crawford struggles.
 

Tony Pena's Gas Cloud

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Give the loss to Cora for putting in Rodriguez instead of Sharriff in the first place. Sherriff looks like a find. Rodriguez has looked like a train wreck every time he's taken the mound.
I'm not really sure who else Cora could have brought in. Yes, there were a bunch of righties due up in the 7th, but Garza had already been used, Pivetta pitched three innings on Sunday, Kluber is on paternity leave, and Crawford may have still been nursing an injury. That left Winckowski, Martin, and Jansen as the only righties, and it's foolish to use them down 3-0 in the 7th. No, Cora had to hope that Rodriguez and Sheriff could sneak their way through an inning or two and keep it close. It didn't work out, but I don't think Cora had any other choice.
 

Doc Zero

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He’s been great. The team truly can’t afford to lose him. But I can’t wait to move on from this contract.
 

Max Power

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When's the last time you heard of a pitcher having a rotator cuff injury? They were all over the place in the 80s, but fell out of style in the 90s. Maybe Sale likes throwback injuries more than throwback uniforms.
 

grimshaw

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May 16, 2007
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For a millisecond I thought he was fine when he hit 96 post mound visit after being 91-92. It probably didn't help that he reached back for something extra.

Curious if Crawford slots in or if they go back to Kluber who hasn't pitched out of the pen yet. Probably the latter.

It's a bit early for Drohan. Don't want to mess with him.
 

mikcou

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If he had a "partially torn rotator cuff" he would not be able to throw a pitch much less one at 90mph.
Not even remotely true. See Red Sox version of Matt Clement. Guy pitched and threw 90+ with significant rotator cuff damage for 3-4 months.
 

BaseballJones

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So so so so frustrating. The guy has been awesome of late. Last six starts (including tonight):

36.0 ip, 25 h, 9 r, 9 er, 5 bb, 41 k, 2.25 era, 0.83 whip, 10.3 k/9

Guy is probably done for the season.
 

Manramsclan

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Not even remotely true. See Red Sox version of Matt Clement. Guy pitched and threw 90+ with significant rotator cuff damage for 3-4 months.
Define significant damage. For instance sprains are small tears but are not a severe as partial tears. Partial tears can be asymptomatic but can develop into full tears. Also which muscle(s) of the rotator cuff? All of this matters.

My point was that it was not as good a guess as any.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Rotator cuff injuries for pitchers generally aren't very good. But I'm just projecting my fear, given the fact that he's rarely been healthy for this team since 2018. Of course I'm assuming the worst.
Damn right you are. No where has "rotator cuff" been mentioned but here. It's insane the hysterics that this place goes into without any details at all. A sore shoulder could just be that, a sore shoulder. A week or two off and maybe he's just fine again. Hell, he might be fine by his next start for all we know. Let's let things play out before we declare his and the team's season over.
 

joe dokes

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Other than that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
You said he should not have been brought in "in the first place."
Maybe you meant "he should not have been left in after he struck that guy out with the bases loaded."
 

BornToRun

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Damn right you are. No where has "rotator cuff" been mentioned but here. It's insane the hysterics that this place goes into without any details at all. A sore shoulder could just be that, a sore shoulder. A week or two off and maybe he's just fine again. Hell, he might be fine by his next start for all we know. Let's let things play out before we declare his and the team's season over.
I‘m trying not to give into hysterics but I’ve also had a rather shit week and this would just be the deer turd on top of the sundae. fingers crossed this isn’t anything major but I’m gonna be holding my breath in the meantime.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Damn right you are. No where has "rotator cuff" been mentioned but here. It's insane the hysterics that this place goes into without any details at all. A sore shoulder could just be that, a sore shoulder. A week or two off and maybe he's just fine again. Hell, he might be fine by his next start for all we know. Let's let things play out before we declare his and the team's season over.
Don’t read the Toucher and Rich thread.
 

Max Power

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Damn right you are. No where has "rotator cuff" been mentioned but here.
I only mentioned it because I wanted to make the "throwback" joke. But it is interesting how those injuries are so rare now. I wonder if it's because teams put their pitchers through a workout regimen to strengthen those muscles. Or if everyone's UCL snaps first before the rotator cuff gets a chance to fail.
 

Al Zarilla

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1. Could this be the old "dead arm" thing?
2. Is there an MRI scheduled for today?
Edit, I see an MRI scheduled for today for Sale, reported by mlb.com. Here we go.
 
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mikcou

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Define significant damage. For instance sprains are small tears but are not a severe as partial tears. Partial tears can be asymptomatic but can develop into full tears. Also which muscle(s) of the rotator cuff? All of this matters.

My point was that it was not as good a guess as any.
Matt Clement's shoulder was completely destroyed. Like everything was destroyed. The quote from Andrews was it looked like "a bomb went off in his shoulder". He had pitched with pretty extensive damage for months and had passed the shoulder strength tests pre-op. It was shocking at the time because no one expected the level of damage that was in the shoulder.

This is the best article I can find about since its been 15+ years. https://www.telegram.com/story/news/local/north/2007/02/24/clement-s-road-back-offramp/52962654007/
 

CoffeeNerdness

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1. Could this be the old "dead arm" thing?
2. Is there an MRI scheduled for today?
Edit, I see an MRI scheduled for today for Sale, reported by mlb.com. Here we go.
I think if it were a dead arm they'd have said that. Coming out and saying it's a shoulder that requires an MRI suggests it's more serious than dead arm fatigue.
 

Al Zarilla

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I think if it were a dead arm they'd have said that. Coming out and saying it's a shoulder that requires an MRI suggests it's more serious than dead arm fatigue.
That's what I was afraid of. Admittedly grasping at straws there. Chris pitches somewhat against his body, and, trying to get all the velo he can, like most pitchers, he may not have the overall body strength to do it any more. I think of Randy Johnson, but I think Johnson was a lot more muscular overall and could survive all those nasty sliders etc. he threw for so long.
 

Sin Duda

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Outcomes discussed here range from "dead arm" with a chance to pitch his next turn, to "rotator cuff" that ends his season and maybe his career. Since there's that much disparity in intelligent people's opinions, maybe we should just w.a.i.t. until the team discusses the MRI results with the media. That's likely coming this afternoon or Monday.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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I think if it were a dead arm they'd have said that. Coming out and saying it's a shoulder that requires an MRI suggests it's more serious than dead arm fatigue.
Not necessarily. If he has any soreness at all they are going to get an MRI, anything else would be frank negligence on their part when it comes to Sale
 

joe dokes

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I think if it were a dead arm they'd have said that. Coming out and saying it's a shoulder that requires an MRI suggests it's more serious than dead arm fatigue.
It's possible they can't say "dead arm" until they rule out other stuff. "Dead arm" is something of an "it isn't anything else so that's what it must be" "diagnosis."
 

nvalvo

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Outcomes discussed here range from "dead arm" with a chance to pitch his next turn, to "rotator cuff" that ends his season and maybe his career. Since there's that much disparity in intelligent people's opinions, maybe we should just w.a.i.t. until the team discusses the MRI results with the media. That's likely coming this afternoon or Monday.
Thank you. I get that people — including the media! — are a bit jumpy about Sale's health, and I completely understand why. But that doesn't actually mean anything about the actual situation with his shoulder.

What we actually know is that he felt some soreness and had a sudden velocity dip, throwing a couple of four-seamers 89 at the beginning of the frame that I suspect alarmed Cora and the coaching staff, and then got him out of there. But after his velo dip, he threw two more at 95 — so it's not like his shoulder was physically inoperable. But he's a pitcher in his 30s: everything is cause for concern. By all means, Cora did the right thing to pull him, and he'll get an MRI.

The case for this edition of the club being actually competitive is that the bullpen would be improved, offense would be good, the defense would be acceptable, and two out of the three veteran aces (Sale, Paxton, Kluber) would be at least solid to help smooth out the inevitable ups and downs of the young starters. The team is checking a lot of those boxes (although the offense has scuffled since the West Coast trip, as often seems to happen). We need some more RH power and a viable shortstop, but we may well have that recuperating in Fort Myers in the person of Trevor Story. So I can't help but be excited for the potential of a second-half run if we can hang around in the wild card race until then. But we need the boxes we've checked — especially Sale and Paxton — to stay checked!

So... yeah, good luck with that MRI, Chris.