2023 Patriot OC: Dream your Dreams

[Saints Rest]

On Greenie’s morning radio show this morning, the question was posed: who should be calling the plays/OC for the Pats next year. Greenberg’s answer was basically “anyone but MP or JJ.”

He went on to throw out a couple names of current head coaches who might not be employed come January, namely Josh McD and Kliff Kingsbury.

I’d like to see them find someone young like Chad O’Shea, but I wonder if BB might go with another older guy, like BOB, Charlie Weis, or Norv Turner.

Give me some names that might excite me more than any of the above.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Josh seems less likely to get fired but he'd be the obvious choice.

Kingsbury has given no indication he'd be good, the playcalling has been a mess in AZ and the offense has generally underachieved.

In terms of a former HC who might take a year as a coordinator... Frank Reich would be interesting.

For other guys....

If you want an experienced pro with a solid track record... Darrell Bevell is the QB Coach in MIA this year (and passing game coordinator)
Another solid pro, one with a lot of QB experience would be Mike McCoy, currently QB coach in JAX (where he appears to have done a great job with Lawrence)

There is of course the always lurking Bill O'Brien, but I think he takes a college HC job.

In terms of young guys, a lot tougher to tell because you've never seen them run an NFL offense and can't tell what the contribute.

Mick Lombardi would fit Bill's (alleged) desire for guys he know, and since he's a rare O-Coordinator who doesn't call plays, he might take the "lateral" move, also Josh might need to cut someone loose to keep his own job.

Eagles QB coach Brian Johnson is an interesting name.

 

[Rudy's Curve]

Bengals OC Brian Callahan will definitely draw interest this coaching cycle. If he doesn’t get a head job, he could take a lateral move in title since he doesn’t call plays. I’d say his reviews around the league are pretty positive.

 

[The Social Chair]

Garrett Riley

 

[streeter88]

Josh likely more interested the closer Bill is to retirement. BB, who is 70 now, is still 19-31 wins behind Shula for the all time record, depending on total wins inculding playoffs (347 vs 328) or just regular season wins (328 vs 297). So another 2-3 seasons.

 

[MainerInExile]

He apparently went with Patricia because he wanted a multi-year solution, not someone who would be hopping to a head coaching gig. So I think the "up and comers" are relatively unlikely for that reason if his logic stays the same.

 

[Cellar-Door]

He apparently went with Patricia because he wanted a multi-year solution, not someone who would be hopping to a head coaching gig. So I think the "up and comers" are relatively unlikely for that reason if his logic stays the same.

I mean, if that's the case he's resigning himself to having a bad OC, if you're a good OC it only takes a year for teams to start sniffing.

 

[Ale Xander]

Drew Bledsoe (lots of experience as an OC at a lower level) or Sean Payton

 

[daburgaman]

Drew Bledsoe (lots of experience as an OC at a lower level) or Sean Payton

Sean Payton coming back for an OC role? I don’t see it. If he’s coming out of “retirement” it’s a head coach.

 

[Ale Xander]

Sean Payton coming back for an OC role? I don’t see it. If he’s coming out of “retirement” it’s a head coach.

1 year OC to get accustomed to the organization and talent and then takes over for BB

 

[Justthetippett]

Josh seems less likely to get fired but he'd be the obvious choice.

Kingsbury has given no indication he'd be good, the playcalling has been a mess in AZ and the offense has generally underachieved.

In terms of a former HC who might take a year as a coordinator... Frank Reich would be interesting.

For other guys....

If you want an experienced pro with a solid track record... Darrell Bevell is the QB Coach in MIA this year (and passing game coordinator)
Another solid pro, one with a lot of QB experience would be Mike McCoy, currently QB coach in JAX (where he appears to have done a great job with Lawrence)

There is of course the always lurking Bill O'Brien, but I think he takes a college HC job.

In terms of young guys, a lot tougher to tell because you've never seen them run an NFL offense and can't tell what the contribute.

Mick Lombardi would fit Bill's (alleged) desire for guys he know, and since he's a rare O-Coordinator who doesn't call plays, he might take the "lateral" move, also Josh might need to cut someone loose to keep his own job.

Eagles QB coach Brian Johnson is an interesting name.

It’s pretty hard to get excited about any of these guys, honestly. Bill is so insular with his staff, I find it hard to believe he’d hire an external OC/play caller to start right away, and BOB just seems destined not to happen. That’s why I wonder about Caley and whether there’s anything there. Or Bill just says fuck it and calls the plays himself.

 

[Old Fart Tree]

Drew Bledsoe (lots of experience as an OC at a lower level) or Sean Payton

Payton will never happen.

Neither will Bledsoe but fuck yeah would I sign up for Cool Hand Drew and BB trying to win one without Tom? The answer is a resounding “sign me the fuck up.”

 

[The Mort Report]

I can't sit here and tell you who should be brought in since I don't know well enough. But BB has been perceived to have the best D mind of any coach(is he still though today?), they need to bring in a mid 30'sish offensive talent for Bill to impart his wisdom on to take over in 3 years. I worry that, while Bill was usually ahead of the league, MP and JJ were yes men and Bill will be stubborn

 

[Shelterdog]

I can't sit here and tell you who should be brought in since I don't know well enough. But BB has been perceived to have the best D mind of any coach(is he still though today?), they need to bring in a mid 30'sish offensive talent for Bill to impart his wisdom on to take over in 3 years. I worry that, while Bill was usually ahead of the league, MP and JJ were yes men and Bill will be stubborn

How on earth would anyone know whether MP or JJ or McDaniels or Groh of Pioli or anyone else is a "yes man"? People repeat this about the inner workings of the team but as far as I can tell it's a black box.

Also if BB does promote yes men than he's a bad manager and that's on him; all the people who've worked at the Pats say he's pretty good about seeking out differing opinions but who knows.

 

[Mooch]

I'd be interested in Joe Brady, current QB coach of the Bills. His last stint as Offensive Coordinator was undone by the Carolina dysfunction but he's a pretty smart, talented guy. Another guy to consider is Zac Robinson - Drafted by the Pats and has been part of that Rams offense for a few years.

 

[Van Everyman]

He apparently went with Patricia because he wanted a multi-year solution, not someone who would be hopping to a head coaching gig. So I think the "up and comers" are relatively unlikely for that reason if his logic stays the same.

I'll say this again: I think it's as least as likely, if not more so, that Bill hires a new OL guy instead of a new play caller. That takes a big responsibility off of Patricia's plate (which may actually be the biggest problem with the offense), gives Mac consistency in a new system and allows Patricia to grow into the job.

 

[Shelterdog]

I'll say this again: I think it's as least as likely, if not more so, that Bill hires a new OL guy instead of a new play caller. That takes a big responsibility off of Patricia's plate (which may actually be the biggest problem with the offense), gives Mac consistency in a new system and allows Patricia to grow into the job.

I think this is right. I also think if Patricia was (in BB's mind) as bad as we all say that Patricia would have already been replaced.
I'm not as convinced as others are that Patricia is a bad offensive coordinator from a play calling/offensive design perspective [he might be good, he might be bad, but I sure as hell can't tell] but there are clearly issues in the operations with the delays of games, untimely TOs, false starts, illegal motions/formations, etc., so I could see them bringing in a veteran OL coach _and_ a veteran TE/WR coach to be a kind of quality control guy.

 

[mikeot]

Josh would be obvious especially if he's somehow explicitly annointed as BB's eventual successor over Patricia or Judge.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Josh would be obvious especially if he's somehow explicitly annointed as BB's eventual successor over Patricia or Judge.

My take is if that's what he wants you hire someone else, he's 2 jobs in at HC and he's been really bad at both stops.

 

[NDame616]

Josh would be obvious especially if he's somehow explicitly annointed as BB's eventual successor over Patricia or Judge.

If this happens then he's been fired twice as a head coach. Why would the Pats bring him back to give him a crack at #3?

 

[lexrageorge]

My take is if that's what he wants you hire someone else, he's 2 jobs in at HC and he's been really bad at both stops.

Josh is dealing with a weak roster in LV, especially on the defensive end. I don’t think the Raiders struggles this season have anything to do with Josh’s coaching acumen.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Josh is dealing with a weak roster in LV, especially on the defensive end. I don’t think the Raiders struggles this season have anything to do with Josh’s coaching acumen.

maybe, but getting fired after one year would. You don't get fired after 1 year unless your whole lockeroom and plan is a mess.

I don't think Josh gets fired, but if he does it's more than just losses.

I'd also say that he took over a 10-7 team, spent money and picks to add Chandler Jones and Davante Adams, and are 5-8... some of that is coaching accumen, this team has disappointed relative to talent.

 

[Shelterdog]

maybe, but getting fired after one year would. You don't get fired after 1 year unless your whole lockeroom and plan is a mess.

I don't think Josh gets fired, but if he does it's more than just losses.

I'd also say that he took over a 10-7 team, spent money and picks to add Chandler Jones and Davante Adams, and are 5-8... some of that is coaching accumen, this team has disappointed relative to talent.

Getting fired by Las Vegas means one thing and one thing only: this guy doesn't like you any more.

 

[The Mort Report]

How on earth would anyone know whether MP or JJ or McDaniels or Groh of Pioli or anyone else is a "yes man"? People repeat this about the inner workings of the team but as far as I can tell it's a black box.

Also if BB does promote yes men than he's a bad manager and that's on him; all the people who've worked at the Pats say he's pretty good about seeking out differing opinions but who knows.

Fair point, "yes men" probably wasn't the right phrase. I think it speaks to how his coordinators rarely ever succeed when they go off on their own as head coaches. They all work within BB's system and get compartmentalized. It's the "do your job" mentality. You aren't allowed to step out of line in the organization, and while it keeps cohesiveness, you have to wonder how much it suppresses innovation. He knew what he had in Judge and Patricia, I just wonder if he goes back to the well too often, instead of bringing in fresh eyes.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Fair point, "yes men" probably wasn't the right phrase. I think it speaks to how his coordinators rarely ever succeed when they go off on their own as head coaches. They all work within BB's system and get compartmentalized. It's the "do your job" mentality. You aren't allowed to step out of line in the organization, and while it keeps cohesiveness, you have to wonder how much it suppresses innovation. He knew what he had in Judge and Patricia, I just wonder if he goes back to the well too often, instead of bringing in fresh eyes.

McDaniels wasn’t a creative offensive mind?

 

[Red Averages]

I'll say this again: I think it's as least as likely, if not more so, that Bill hires a new OL guy instead of a new play caller. That takes a big responsibility off of Patricia's plate (which may actually be the biggest problem with the offense), gives Mac consistency in a new system and allows Patricia to grow into the job.

I think this should be the heavy favorite.

 

[lexrageorge]

Fair point, "yes men" probably wasn't the right phrase. I think it speaks to how his coordinators rarely ever succeed when they go off on their own as head coaches. They all work within BB's system and get compartmentalized. It's the "do your job" mentality. You aren't allowed to step out of line in the organization, and while it keeps cohesiveness, you have to wonder how much it suppresses innovation. He knew what he had in Judge and Patricia, I just wonder if he goes back to the well too often, instead of bringing in fresh eyes.

I don't the success or failure rate of his former assistants is any different. He's just had a lot of them.

Bill O'Brien and Nick Saban have both had successful careers post-Bill, and the latter certainly would have done better with Miami had he not been stuck with a totally washed up QB. Brian Daboll's name gets tossed around as CoY candidate.

Brian Flores had a falling out with his GM, but his tenure seemed to stabilize the franchise's fortunes which had its own challenges at the QB position, and certainly has earned another chance at a head coaching gig.

Judge, Patricia, McDaniels Part 1 were notable crash-and-burns. But it's worth noting that Mara went right back to Belichick for another recommendation (Daball) after Judge didn't pan out. Mangini had some early success with the Jets but then failed with the Browns, which is the graveyard of NFL coaches. McDaniels is dealing with a mediocre and injured roster right now; the Raiders 10-7 last year record was a complete mirage built upon a soft schedule.

 

[macal]

I think this should be the heavy favorite.

I also agree with this. I have no idea what goes on within that group of big guys on the line and how they are coached. However, my understanding is that it is a highly specialized position that needs a full time coach that only deals with that. He doesn't care what happens in the rest of the field, but only focuses on what 'his' men do. He doesn't even look at the ball. Patricia can't be coaching the OL successfully and also calling plays etc.

Like most casual fans, I'm usually paying attention to the QB on TV, then WR's/TE's, then the RB's if it's a run play. I am never looking at the OL. Recently, since they seem to be so bad, I've been watching the OL first, out of fear that they let someone through. I only now start looking at the QB when I'm confident that the OL is holding up.

 

[EvilEmpire]

My dream of dreams is for Josh McDaniels to be the next Patriots OC. But I know it isn't going to happen.

 

[Shelterdog]

Fair point, "yes men" probably wasn't the right phrase. I think it speaks to how his coordinators rarely ever succeed when they go off on their own as head coaches. They all work within BB's system and get compartmentalized. It's the "do your job" mentality. You aren't allowed to step out of line in the organization, and while it keeps cohesiveness, you have to wonder how much it suppresses innovation. He knew what he had in Judge and Patricia, I just wonder if he goes back to the well too often, instead of bringing in fresh eyes.

I guess I don't see innovation as the team's problem. Year after year they're putting together new and different schemes. They were innovative for a very long time, changing defensive and offensive approaches (and personnel approaches as well) all the time. I think the problems the team/franchise are having are ones of execution, not innovation. They haven't drafted well since about 2012 (although the last three years are not entirely bad), this year they're getting penalties all over the place on offense, they're turning it over more, they've blown a lot of money on underproductive free agents (money they had 'cuz the guys they drafted weren't good enough to re-sign), they haven't developed many of the Ninkovich/Edelman/Dan Connolley types (nobodies who start playing well three, four, five years into being on the team--it's particularly pronounced on the o-line , how can we not have had a hochstein/wendell/connnolly as our fourth interior o-lineman instead of freaking old man ferenz)

 

[Saints Rest]

People wondering if it was Brady or Belichick, responsible for 20 years of success may have missed the real answer: Dante Scarnecchia.

 

[Shelterdog]

People wondering if it was Brady or Belichick, responsible for 20 years of success may have missed the real answer: Dante Scarnecchia.

No one ever pays attention to the o-line. Probowl guard Stephen Neal blew out his knee in the second quarter of the 2007 superbowl; i don't think it was mentioned but you can just watch hocthstein get abused for the rest of the game and then people wonder why the Pats didn't do a good job.

BB and Brady both helped Dante look good but I think it is a shame that the Pats never found a Dante replacement when he was here. Maybe BIlly Yates?

 

[GB5]

Is it too fresh to say that the Pats will hire someone who is let go by another team but still has term on his contract. The Pats won’t call him OC, but will put a Ridiculous name on him “Senior Advisor to Game Day Development” so they don’t have to pay him.

 

[lexrageorge]

Is it too fresh to say that the Pats will hire someone who is let go by another team but still has term on his contract. The Pats won’t call him OC, but will put a Ridiculous name on him “Senior Advisor to Game Day Development” so they don’t have to pay him.

Perfectly OK if the coach willingly signs the contract under those conditions.

 

[The Mort Report]

McDaniels wasn’t a creative offensive mind?

Don't get me wrong, he was great with Brady and had Mac turn in one of the best rookie seasons ever, and I'd take him back in a heartbeat. However, in certain situations he was fairly predictable. Those runs early in the games during the Brady era that would drive the gamethread nuts would pay dividends later in the game by opening things up for Tom. He seemed to try to do the same thing with Mac last year, though not as often, but Mac was yet built to make those reads Brady could that late play action would open up, and seemed like wasted plays trying to stick to an old concept

I guess I don't see innovation as the team's problem. Year after year they're putting together new and different schemes. They were innovative for a very long time, changing defensive and offensive approaches (and personnel approaches as well) all the time. I think the problems the team/franchise are having are ones of execution, not innovation. They haven't drafted well since about 2012 (although the last three years are not entirely bad), this year they're getting penalties all over the place on offense, they're turning it over more, they've blown a lot of money on underproductive free agents (money they had 'cuz the guys they drafted weren't good enough to re-sign), they haven't developed many of the Ninkovich/Edelman/Dan Connolley types (nobodies who start playing well three, four, five years into being on the team--it's particularly pronounced on the o-line , how can we not have had a hochstein/wendell/connnolly as our fourth interior o-lineman instead of freaking old man ferenz)

Oh for sure Bill and the team were 1000% ahead of the league for a long time, and completely agree with you on your points. Though to one, I think part of the team not finding those Ninkovich types though is the rest of the league caught up due to all the data now available at a team's fingertips. Teams are much smarter now(duh). Bill also always built the team on depth, and it's so much harder now to find cheaper FA like the Vrabel's of the league

To me the play calling this year feels stuck in the past. Yes, a lot of it is the line then Mac, but even still, if the goal is to make the playoffs, which of course it is, they seem to be way too conservative in situations like third and long late in the game, especially when they are down. You can say they don't trust Mac, but they won't win much playing it safe. They just don't seem willing to adapt in game, they stick to the plan. Maybe it's just me

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

This has spread across a couple of the threads but this seemed a good place to link as well. O’Brien promised Saban he would fulfill the two years on his contract so this year wasn’t and option for the Pats reunion. Hopefully, he is here come spring.

View: https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/1606613731563241474?s=46&t=0RBXmHjAiK5Y3MAp6IDEow

 

[NDame616]

I still think it's O'Briens camp leaking it so a team grabs him as HC.

I get the connection here, but I can't see him taking a stopgap job. And yes I know "he will be the presumed coach when bill retires " but uprooting his son away from his doctors is no small feat. I'd think he'd only do that with a guarantee HC gig for 5 or 6 years.