2023 NBA Playoffs

DeadlySplitter

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Oct 20, 2015
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Simply by Jokic showing up in the playoffs more than Tatum right now, Jokic is better. Don't think there's much debate there.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
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Sep 27, 2016
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Jokic just led his team to the Finals posting absolutely insane numbers…..now is definitely the time to talk about if he’s better than Jayson Tatum
He might be the only guy in basketball that >50% of the Port Cellar would swap Tatum for. You can start the poll up if you like. I don't think we'd do it for Steph, or Embiid, or even Giannis, even if a majority of non-Celtics fans might make that trade (endowment effect). But Jokic is just... built different.
 

jose melendez

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He might be the only guy in basketball that >50% of the Port Cellar would swap Tatum for. You can start the poll up if you like. I don't think we'd do it for Steph, or Embiid, or even Giannis, even if a majority of non-Celtics fans might make that trade (endowment effect). But Jokic is just... built different.
I'd do it for Giannis orJokic without thinking that hard.
 

InstaFace

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did he really? I missed that, I only saw after that (with the camera following him to the locker room)
It was the most perfunctory of hugs, but yeah. Very brief with Davis, a short remark and minimal eye contact, very brief with James, no eye contact. Immediately after the horn, before the camera had even cut from that shot.

Mark Jackson still talking about the Lakers putting themselves in a position to have a successful season. And Lebron's extraordinary career. Christ, these people. How about something about the fans of Denver? They rolled deep in the Lakers' house tonight. Their roster is deep with a huge variety of fun talents. They just fucking swept the Lakers. How about changing protagonists for once?
 

wrong rim ricky

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May 13, 2023
72
LeBron leaves the court without congratulating anyone. Pretty weak
He might be the only guy in basketball that >50% of the Port Cellar would swap Tatum for. You can start the poll up if you like. I don't think we'd do it for Steph, or Embiid, or even Giannis, even if a majority of non-Celtics fans might make that trade (endowment effect). But Jokic is just... built different.
It was really difficult rooting for him tonight. Bron turned him into a turnstile. He does make the his teammates better, but he was a defensive liability tonight.
 

InstaFace

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Right if I had to guess I'd say 70% of Cs fans here would trade Tatum for Jokic, 40-50% would trade him for Giannis, 30-40% would do Steph and like 10% would take Embiid. In fact I bet Doncic would get more takers than Embiid.

Point is, Jokic would both lead those polls by %, and also have >50% for Tatum (to answer the original question). Therefore, Sam Ray Not is inarguably correct, imo.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
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Apr 23, 2010
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I’m a little bummed that no one on the Nuggets decided to be petty in that trophy ceremony.

You had Lisa Salters MC’ing (she who recently admitted that she didn’t have any idea about Jokic’s game…you know the back to back NBA MVP) and the game was announced by Mark Jackson (the guy who didn’t have Jokic in his top 5 for MVP)
 

jose melendez

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Giannis turns 29 in Dec and has a game that relies on elite athleticism over offensive skill. I’m not trading Tatum for him.
You forgot size.

Tatum is a very good defender when he wants to be, but his defense isn't anywhere close to as game altering as Giannis. Giannis also opens up the floor for everyone else.

Giannis and Joker dramatically improve everyone around them (especially Jokic). Tatum has yet to do that. If you want to argue Tatum's health makes him a better bet than Giannis, I'd take that.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
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You forgot size.

Tatum is a very good defender when he wants to be, but his defense isn't anywhere close to as game altering as Giannis. Giannis also opens up the floor for everyone else.

Giannis and Joker dramatically improve everyone around them (especially Jokic). Tatum has yet to do that. If you want to argue Tatum's health makes him a better bet than Giannis, I'd take that.
Depends on what timeframe we’re talking about (I may have missed this part). I wouldn’t take Giannis’ next 5 years over Tatum’s. But next 1-2? Sure. There’s no doubt that Giannis is the better player right now.
 

kazuneko

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Nov 10, 2006
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Ham bitching that they didn’t call Murray or Gordon for a foul on LeBron’s final drive.
This fuckin’ guy.
That was clean - he was blocked twice. Probably should have been a jump ball on Murray’s initial block but that wouldn’t have changed anything.
What wasn’t clean was the Lakers defense on Jokic’s final drive which should have been an and-one.
 

radsoxfan

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Aug 9, 2009
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Right if I had to guess I'd say 70% of Cs fans here would trade Tatum for Jokic, 40-50% would trade him for Giannis, 30-40% would do Steph and like 10% would take Embiid. In fact I bet Doncic would get more takers than Embiid.

Point is, Jokic would both lead those polls by %, and also have >50% for Tatum (to answer the original question). Therefore, Sam Ray Not is inarguably correct, imo.
Lol Steph. What are you talking about?

Steph is 35 and Tatum is 25.

Tatum will likely never have close to the career of Curry but any Celtics fan trading Tatum for Curry right now would have to get his/her head examined.
 

InstaFace

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Lol Steph. What are you talking about?

Steph is 35 and Tatum is 25.

Tatum will likely never have close to the career of Curry but any Celtics fan trading Tatum for Curry right now would have to get his/her head examined.
You have to admit Steph's skillset is one that ages the best of any. What difference do you really see between 35yo Steph and 30yo Steph? 34yo Steph ground us to a fine paste this time last year.

I wouldn't trade Tatum for him right now, but I'd at least get where someone who would was coming from.
 

Kliq

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Mar 31, 2013
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An impressive last gasp from LeBron, but it warms my cold, black heart to see the Lakers get eliminated.
 

Cellar-Door

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You have to admit Steph's skillset is one that ages the best of any. What difference do you really see between 35yo Steph and 30yo Steph? 34yo Steph ground us to a fine paste this time last year.

I wouldn't trade Tatum for him right now, but I'd at least get where someone who would was coming from.
He's seen a pretty marked decline in defense the last 2 years for one thing. he has also averaged 60 games a year since his season long injury, and has been less consistent, this year was a bounceback on offense, but last year was his worst season offensively since before he was an All-Star, and late 30s tends to be where the cliff is. Steph might give you a better chance to win a title next year, but maybe not, his risk levels are getting very high at this point.
 

Euclis20

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You have to admit Steph's skillset is one that ages the best of any. What difference do you really see between 35yo Steph and 30yo Steph? 34yo Steph ground us to a fine paste this time last year.

I wouldn't trade Tatum for him right now, but I'd at least get where someone who would was coming from.
His game will age fine, but injuries are killer. After his early career ankle issues, he turned into one of the more durable stars, missing just 16 games in 5 seasons from 2013-2017. He's missed 44 games over the last two years, and I suspect Warriors fans would happily take the same amount over the next two. Anyone thinking he might be worth Tatum is just ignoring this reality.
 

ElUno20

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Jul 19, 2005
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So happy about i dont have to hear about Reaves, Rui, and the great lakers resurgence anymore.
 

radsoxfan

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You have to admit Steph's skillset is one that ages the best of any. What difference do you really see between 35yo Steph and 30yo Steph? 34yo Steph ground us to a fine paste this time last year.
The biggest difference between 30 year old Steph and 35 year old Steph? That's easy.

5 years later, 30 year old Steph is 35. 5 years later, 35 year old Steph is 40.

Steph is great and I'm sure he has some really good years left. But it's debatable if he is better than Tatum right now. And he's 10 YEARS OLDER.

It's not even a remotely close call.
 

worm0082

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Sep 19, 2002
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did he really? I missed that, I only saw after that (with the camera following him to the locker room)
Lebron immediately started to leave, got to half court, then realized what he was doing, went back and talked to Jokic for a few seconds then left without talking to any other Nuggets.
 

Sox and Rocks

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Apr 16, 2013
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Mark Jackson still talking about the Lakers putting themselves in a position to have a successful season. And Lebron's extraordinary career. Christ, these people. How about something about the fans of Denver? They rolled deep in the Lakers' house tonight. Their roster is deep with a huge variety of fun talents. They just fucking swept the Lakers. How about changing protagonists for once?
We're used to it, and (don't tell anyone), we kind of like it!
 

Sox and Rocks

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The first half had me worried, but the saving grace was Lebron playing the entire first half. Clearly, he blew his wad (prom night!), and his fatigue was obvious and had a huge impact on the second half.

I know it's desperation time and all, but I can't believe Ham didn't give him any rest.
 

lovegtm

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Apr 30, 2013
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I mean whatever your opinion on Jokic v Tatum, it’s not “crazy” to think Jokic is better. (In other words, don’t feed the troll).
Lol wait there is debate over whether Jokic is better than Tatum? It's not particularly close--Jokic is a far, far better player.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Aug 12, 2009
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Sports Irony at its finest: the Nuggets going to their first NBA finals, and beating the Lakers to do it, on the same day Carmelo Anthony retires from the NBA.
I either didn’t know or had forgotten that Denver drafted Murray in 2016 with a pick that came from the Knicks in a swap that was part of the Carmelo Anthony trade from 2011. Crazy how, a dozen years later, that trade is still paying dividends for Denver.
 

HereComesthePizza

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Mar 29, 2023
35
Lol wait there is debate over whether Jokic is better than Tatum? It's not particularly close--Jokic is a far, far better player.
I don’t think Tatum/Jokic is discussed much. Based on the past few seasons, there were questions about Jokic’s defense and if a team could win a championship with him. I know they had injuries but the 2x MVP not making deep runs in the playoffs brings a lot of scrutiny (personally I find the Embiid/Jokic MVP debate to be the worst of sports media). I don’t watch a ton of Nuggets with the late start times but he’s worked on his conditioning and foot speed. Credit to him and also Malone/GM for building the right system and roster. I was hoping for Warriors/Nuggets WCF because I think they would’ve been competitive trying to exploit Jokic on the perimeter. LA and Phoenix just don’t shoot enough 3s to give Denver problems. If it ends being Miami/Denver, I think it will be a competitive series.
 

Ed Hillel

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LeBron is feigning retirement as a leverage play/whinefest to get better players around him or trade him.
 

Kliq

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Mar 31, 2013
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The only thing the Lakers can really do to make a big change would be to trade Davis; who's value is probably as high right now as it has been in a few seasons. I'm not sure who you would get back for him that would be better--a healthy Davis compliments the Lakers really well and he was easily their best player this post season.

The Lakers are in an interesting spot because the RFA's that played well in the playoffs, like Reaves and Hachimura, are not going to come back cheaply to the team, and it becomes hard to improve if you lose those guys without making some really shrewd moves to replace them.

I wouldn't take LeBron's words moments after a crushing playoff exit too seriously. He 100% is NOT retiring. I do think we might be entering a years-long phase though were every off-season he teases retirement and it gets talked about incessantly forever.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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May 25, 2008
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LeBron is feigning retirement as a leverage play/whinefest to get better players around him or trade him.
Lebron will go into full Aaron Rodgers mode after every season from now on. Tease a retirement, wait to see if the team improves or a better landing spot opens up, and drag it all out for months.
 

Auger34

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Apr 23, 2010
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LeBron has constantly talked about playing with his son. Highly doubt he retires the year before that can happen