2023 Jets: Hello Darkness Retreat, My Old Friend

Van Everyman

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Rodgers was hurt almost all of last season. His receivers were pretty horrendous, too, especially considering they lost Adams from the previous few years.

He's got plenty in the tank and he will prove it because he's a petty baby that wants to prove things.

I can't believe people aren't understanding how great Aaron Rodgers is as a player. As a person, garbage. As a QB? He's one of the best ever.
Yeah, that's kind of where I am. I'd have been conflicted if Belichick had traded for him -- but almost entirely based on the fact that he seems like kind of a terrible person. But as a QB? He takes this Pats team, even with a bunch of #2 and #3 receivers, deep into the playoffs. Of that, I'd have little doubt.
 

rodderick

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Yeah, that's kind of where I am. I'd have been conflicted if Belichick had traded for him -- but almost entirely based on the fact that he seems like kind of a terrible person. But as a QB? He takes this Pats team, even with a bunch of #2 and #3 receivers, deep into the playoffs. Of that, I'd have little doubt.
I don't know, I have a lot of doubt over his ability to take this roster deep into the playoffs, something he hasn't done since 2020 with much better rosters in Green Bay. I just think he'd make the team better and more exciting to watch for the next two years than they'll be.
 

sodenj5

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Rodgers really said the Packers didn’t contact him because he has spotty cell service at his house and they never FaceTimed him.

He also did not in any way commit to playing next year. I think the Jets will be playing the Green Bay waiting game next off-season. At least they know they need to FaceTime him now.
 

Van Everyman

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I don't know, I have a lot of doubt over his ability to take this roster deep into the playoffs, something he hasn't done since 2020 with much better rosters in Green Bay. I just think he'd make the team better and more exciting to watch for the next two years than they'll be.
I suppose I understand that ... but notwithstanding how things worked out last year in GB, I feel like it was a lot less about his receivers and a lot more that Rodgers wanted to leave.

On this team, not only do you have Rodgers spreading the ball around to Gesicki, Henry, Parker and Bourne, but you also give Thornton chances at great long balls. Plus, Stevenson carrying the ball and BB game plans. That feels pretty good to me.

Obviously it could all fall apart -- Rodgers gets hurt, pouts some more or he and Bill don't get along. But I wouldn't discount the value of better coaching and a pretty deep (if not deeply talented) roster of skill players.
 

MikeM

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What are the chances that Rodgers is effective in his forties? The only other QB to do it is obviously the GOAT and an extreme aberration. I feel like this is possibly being underappreciated as a real (likely?) outcome beginning this season.
Underappreciated? In pretty much every single one of mainstream media influencer case I've seen, and within the thousands of hours of air time that has been dedicated to covering it this offseason, it's simply being flat out ignored in the process of pushing the much more desired buzz narrative. Same goes for that accompanying acknowledgement on a decline year Aaron Rodgers' inability to take a somewhat equivalent top-to-bottom talent level team to the playoffs last year coming out of a cupcake division. Or any deep dive trip into the Jets' 2023 season game tape that might otherwise suggest the 1-7 record down the stretch (with a lot more team sport failure points going on then simply bad QB play) was probably the much better sample size evaluation indicator at where this team truly is at this point in time then that early 6-3 run. Which other then Josh Allen having his worst game of the season consisted of wins over Jacoby Brissett, Mitch Trubisky, Skylar Thompson, broken by our new OC Russell Wilson, and decline year Aaron Rodgers himself.

As a going on 40 year Jets fan last offseason was supposed to be the great turning point coming off that draft. My John Henry bought the team and things are finally changing for the better moment. The tangible beginnings of a 49ers East team build model that wasn't going to be end up ride or dying on Zach Wilson panning out. Was i disappointed at seasons end that we ended up missing the playoffs? Sure, but at the same time there was most certainly an encouraging step forward being made in that which shined unique promise on the future with some keep grinding away tweaks. Tweaks more in line with what I'd expect out of a well run franchise with an approach grounded in it's surrounding reality, and not in some black hole of despair driven desire to desperately chase after their 15 minutes of rationally projected relevancy.

Instead I get an ocean of Koolaid pushed at me this winter in the follow up. I get what arguably amounts to the worst high profile player-in-decline personality fits in NY sports media history at QB in anything outside an extreme best case scenario outcome. I get the rough equivalent of the Bobby Valentine hire at OC, and now spear heading the attempt to fix our offense fresh off his tenure in Denver being one of the most historically bad showings in of such in NFL history. I get a GM that literally makes it an baffling point to release public comments in the media undermining any chance we might have had to negotiate a better case scenario for ourselves on the Rodgers' compensation front. Then as a kicker I get a market high overpay on a WR we really had no pressing need for and who I'm pretty sure I don't recall being mentioned once in your guy's potential WR option thread here.

I mean I get it from a strictly what makes 2023 more fun to watch as a fan pov. But beyond that and this Superbowl contender pipedream? Failing to properly read the room (the AFC is looking stacked) and jumping the gun here by surrendering high value building block assets to make a 1 year chase at what more realistic then anything else ends up being a 3rd place finish in the division might be the most Jets Being the Jets move ever imo. The reality cost of which starts tomorrow when we likely end up missing out on the foundation building OT we ideally would of rather wanted before settling on somebody else, and who is going to be around long after Rodgers retires or wants out after this year.
 
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MikeM

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From the Jets POV, what exactly was their alternative pathway to building a contending roster?
As stated in my post above it starts by reading the room, and by not buying into the click hungry media's hype train that your roster is really a 40yo QB away from being a good probability bet in 2023 to jump ahead of the better teams in fairly stacked AFC. Followed then by making a legitimate attempt to bring in an OC with the aim to rebuild the offense around the reality that you simply might have to make the best of Zach Wilson potentially busting out, and there not actually being any headline grabbing QB upgrade options available to you (at a cost worth paying) in that quest to meet this supposed "with even average QB play the Jets would be a playoff team" quota.

Maybe you get there with Carr. Maybe you get there with Jimmy. Maybe you get there by bringing in another money only flyer guy like Winston who that new OC likes and feels confident they can work well with. All of which that worst case scenario and to me seem like they'll be better probability outcome bets in relationship to any POV that takes into account the very high likelihood now that we are still left sitting around speculating that same exact question 1 year from now minus the pick assets and a SB win that never happened.
 

MikeM

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^ this guy???

I choose happiness

View attachment 64039
More power to you, and in the ability to find it even if it has to be build around a mountain of delusional thinking. Like I said i get it from a strict pov that in the moment it makes the 2023 a lot more potentially interesting to watch going in.

I'd hold off on making the Vegas bet though. Those odds are without doubt going to get a lot better for you once they get done milking the hype train suckers.
 

OldeBeanTowne

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Underappreciated? In pretty much every single one of mainstream media influencer case I've seen, and within the thousands of hours of air time that has been dedicated to covering it this offseason, it's simply being flat out ignored in the process of pushing the much more desired buzz narrative. Same goes for that accompanying acknowledgement on a decline year Aaron Rodgers' inability to take a somewhat equivalent top-to-bottom talent level team to the playoffs last year coming out of a cupcake division. Or any deep dive trip into the Jets' 2023 season game tape that might otherwise suggest the 1-7 record down the stretch (with a lot more team sport failure points going on then simply bad QB play) was probably the much better sample size evaluation indicator at where this team truly is at this point in time then that early 6-3 run. Which other then Josh Allen having his worst game of the season consisted of wins over Jacoby Brissett, Mitch Trubisky, Skylar Thompson, broken by our new OC Russell Wilson, and decline year Aaron Rodgers himself.

As a going on 40 year Jets fan last offseason was supposed to be the great turning point coming off that draft. My John Henry bought the team and things are finally changing for the better moment. The tangible beginnings of a 49ers East team build model that wasn't going to be end up ride or dying on Zach Wilson panning out. Was i disappointed at seasons end that we ended up missing the playoffs? Sure, but at the same time there was most certainly an encouraging step forward being made in that which shined unique promise on the future with some keep grinding away tweaks. Tweaks more in line with what I'd expect out of a well run franchise with an approach grounded in it's surrounding reality, and not in some black hole of despair driven desire to desperately chase after their 15 minutes of rationally projected relevancy.

Instead I get an ocean of Koolaid pushed at me this winter in the follow up. I get what arguably amounts to the worst high profile player-in-decline personality fits in NY sports media history at QB in anything outside an extreme best case scenario outcome. I get the rough equivalent of the Bobby Valentine hire at OC, and now spear heading the attempt to fix our offense fresh off his tenure in Denver being one of the most historically bad showings in of such in NFL history. I get a GM that literally makes it an baffling point to release public comments in the media undermining any chance we might have had to negotiate a better case scenario for ourselves on the Rodgers' compensation front. Then as a kicker I get a market high overpay on a WR we really had no pressing need for and who I'm pretty sure I don't recall being mentioned once in your guy's potential WR option thread here.

I mean I get it from a strictly what makes 2023 more fun to watch as a fan pov. But beyond that and this Superbowl contender pipedream? Failing to properly read the room (the AFC is looking stacked) and jumping the gun here by surrendering high value building block assets to make a 1 year chase at what more realistic then anything else ends up being a 3rd place finish in the division might be the most Jets Being the Jets move ever imo. The reality cost of which starts tomorrow when we likely end up missing out on the foundation building OT we ideally would of rather wanted before settling on somebody else, and who is going to be around long after Rodgers retires or wants out after this year.
Thanks for the generous response from a Jets fan perspective. Some of my buddies feel the same way.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Sep 9, 2008
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Underappreciated? In pretty much every single one of mainstream media influencer case I've seen, and within the thousands of hours of air time that has been dedicated to covering it this offseason, it's simply being flat out ignored in the process of pushing the much more desired buzz narrative. Same goes for that accompanying acknowledgement on a decline year Aaron Rodgers' inability to take a somewhat equivalent top-to-bottom talent level team to the playoffs last year coming out of a cupcake division. Or any deep dive trip into the Jets' 2023 season game tape that might otherwise suggest the 1-7 record down the stretch (with a lot more team sport failure points going on then simply bad QB play) was probably the much better sample size evaluation indicator at where this team truly is at this point in time then that early 6-3 run. Which other then Josh Allen having his worst game of the season consisted of wins over Jacoby Brissett, Mitch Trubisky, Skylar Thompson, broken by our new OC Russell Wilson, and decline year Aaron Rodgers himself.

As a going on 40 year Jets fan last offseason was supposed to be the great turning point coming off that draft. My John Henry bought the team and things are finally changing for the better moment. The tangible beginnings of a 49ers East team build model that wasn't going to be end up ride or dying on Zach Wilson panning out. Was i disappointed at seasons end that we ended up missing the playoffs? Sure, but at the same time there was most certainly an encouraging step forward being made in that which shined unique promise on the future with some keep grinding away tweaks. Tweaks more in line with what I'd expect out of a well run franchise with an approach grounded in it's surrounding reality, and not in some black hole of despair driven desire to desperately chase after their 15 minutes of rationally projected relevancy.

Instead I get an ocean of Koolaid pushed at me this winter in the follow up. I get what arguably amounts to the worst high profile player-in-decline personality fits in NY sports media history at QB in anything outside an extreme best case scenario outcome. I get the rough equivalent of the Bobby Valentine hire at OC, and now spear heading the attempt to fix our offense fresh off his tenure in Denver being one of the most historically bad showings in of such in NFL history. I get a GM that literally makes it an baffling point to release public comments in the media undermining any chance we might have had to negotiate a better case scenario for ourselves on the Rodgers' compensation front. Then as a kicker I get a market high overpay on a WR we really had no pressing need for and who I'm pretty sure I don't recall being mentioned once in your guy's potential WR option thread here.

I mean I get it from a strictly what makes 2023 more fun to watch as a fan pov. But beyond that and this Superbowl contender pipedream? Failing to properly read the room (the AFC is looking stacked) and jumping the gun here by surrendering high value building block assets to make a 1 year chase at what more realistic then anything else ends up being a 3rd place finish in the division might be the most Jets Being the Jets move ever imo. The reality cost of which starts tomorrow when we likely end up missing out on the foundation building OT we ideally would of rather wanted before settling on somebody else, and who is going to be around long after Rodgers retires or wants out after this year.
Your team will be the most talked about in football next year, will get lots of prime time attention, and will probably be in most of the games it plays. Super Bowls are really rare. Even though this is primarily a Patriots board, I think we all understand that really you're not meant to win them in bunches and winning just one is a big deal. The Jets may not get there. But there will be plenty to be excited about next year. You'll be following an incredibly entertaining team and situation next year, one way or another. So, there's that at least, and that's not nothing.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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how would you have felt with Belichick making this move?
I just don't understand why nobody is talking about the cap. I understand that most view the cap as a thing you can manipulate year to year, but it's just not true. Rodgers is very cheap this year and relatively cheap next year, but it's at the expense of adding over $50 million to the 2025 and 2026 cap (each!) -- when they won't even have the player!!! To take on that burden and give up the picks? I don't know. That would be too much for me, for a year or two of high flying entertainment. But that's easy for me to say as a Patriots fan. I have six big reasons in the bank why I don't need the quick hit of a year like that, damned the cost. Ask me again in ten years if it's been a decade of toiling way at 8-9 or worse, playing most games on Sunday at 1:00. At that point, I might take the deal to have some temporary relevance and discussion about being at the big table.
 

lexrageorge

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Pats fans, how would you have felt with Belichick making this move?
I do not know if this move will work out for the Jets. But given where the Jets are relative to the Patriots, I do believe the move makes far more sense for the Jets than it would for the Pats.
 

MikeM

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Your team will be the most talked about in football next year, will get lots of prime time attention, and will probably be in most of the games it plays. Super Bowls are really rare. Even though this is primarily a Patriots board, I think we all understand that really you're not meant to win them in bunches and winning just one is a big deal. The Jets may not get there. But there will be plenty to be excited about next year. You'll be following an incredibly entertaining team and situation next year, one way or another. So, there's that at least, and that's not nothing.
It's not enough. I don't want to just be the most talked about team in football for just next year. I want to BELIEVE in the possibility of good things happening for an extended period of time man. I want to believe in that general hope springs eternal manner other fan bases get to do. Like I got to do here every winter for the 15+ years I religiously followed every season after Henry and co bought the team, and even when I don't always agree with every surrounding move or decision being made.

Right now the only thing I believe in with the Jets, and with absolute certainty after this offseason , is that this team will never find any lasting success until Woody is dead and buried in the ground.
 

Cellar-Door

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I just don't understand why nobody is talking about the cap. I understand that most view the cap as a thing you can manipulate year to year, but it's just not true. Rodgers is very cheap this year and relatively cheap next year, but it's at the expense of adding over $50 million to the 2025 and 2026 cap (each!) -- when they won't even have the player!!! To take on that burden and give up the picks? I don't know. That would be too much for me, for a year or two of high flying entertainment. But that's easy for me to say as a Patriots fan. I have six big reasons in the bank why I don't need the quick hit of a year like that, damned the cost. Ask me again in ten years if it's been a decade of toiling way at 8-9 or worse, playing most games on Sunday at 1:00. At that point, I might take the deal to have some temporary relevance and discussion about being at the big table.
Those aren't guaranteed money. There is a (expensive) out in 2024, or if he retires. Generally though the real answer is they'll restructure after the draft, shift some money into this year.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Those aren't guaranteed money. There is a (expensive) out in 2024, or if he retires. Generally though the real answer is they'll restructure after the draft, shift some money into this year.
I don't think the out in 2024 is feasible. It accelerates more than they'll likely have room to take on. They won't be carrying over anything this year.

However they restructure, they are going to take on $106 million in cap hits for two years of a player. There are tricks that they can use that change when they take it, but they don't have a ton of space this year. Even if they make room, they are going to be paying very significant amounts in future years. $106 million is $106 million, no matter how you slice it.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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If the Jets continue to improve on defense and get a piece or two on the offensive line, they're going to be competitive.

I mean, even with a down year last season, how much better are the Jets with Rodgers and a full season of Bryce?
 

Cellar-Door

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I don't think the out in 2024 is feasible. It accelerates more than they'll likely have room to take on. They won't be carrying over anything this year.

However they restructure, they are going to take on $106 million in cap hits for two years of a player. There are tricks that they can use that change when they take it, but they don't have a ton of space this year. Even if they make room, they are going to be paying very significant amounts in future years. $106 million is $106 million, no matter how you slice it.
my guess is they take some of it into this year, and spread the rest over 2024 and 2025.
 

DanoooME

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If the Jets continue to improve on defense and get a piece or two on the offensive line, they're going to be competitive.

I mean, even with a down year last season, how much better are the Jets with Rodgers and a full season of Bryce?
Bryce will definitely help, assuming he stays healthy and isn't the new Rashaad Penny.

If Rodgers stays in the middle of the pack, yes, that's an improvement over Wilson. But is he going to stay there? At his age, it's not likely he's going to get healthier. What happens if he regresses at the same rate he regressed from 2021-22? That's really bad. Even slight regression puts him puts him in the bottom third. He needs to stay healthy and win it all next year. I wouldn't have made this bet if I were the Jets.
 

Jungleland

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Obviously this all hinges on whether 2022 Rodgers was his true talent level at this point. 2021 Rodgers takes this roster deep in the playoffs, and I think it's a reasonable gamble that 2022 was as much about his shitty attitude and broken thumb as it was a true signal he's on the 18th hole. From a Patriots perspective I'm relieved that the Jets have cornered themselves into a potentially very short window, but I don't really hate the move for the Jets either. I don't think it's all that unlikely they win the division if Rodgers plays well, and at that point you're what, the 3rd or 4th best team in the league right now? A first, second, fifth, and sixth isn't unreasonable for two years of true contention.
 

EvilEmpire

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From a Patriots perspective I'm relieved that the Jets have cornered themselves into a potentially very short window, but I don't really hate the move for the Jets either.
The thing is, the Jets were already in a corner. A great roster without a good QB isn't worth so much anymore. Wilson didn't work out. Drafting a new QB and developing him, even if they hit a home run on the right pick, they lose a couple of years developing him. The Jets have a good defense and solid pieces throughout the roster right now, but who knows how long that will last.

The best way to get a large competitive window is to draft a really good QB and keep him for a long time. The Jets tried and failed to do that. This is plan B.

It may be a short window, but I'm not sure everything would line up roster wise if they went in a different direction. Maybe a middle class QB like Jimmy G or Carr would have been enough, but I think if you're going to roll the dice, might as well go with the guy with the greatest upside. The price was high, but not crippling.
 

MikeM

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Watching the bad GM'ing that went into the Rodgers trade predictably screw us out the OL help we wanted/need most out of this draft was pretty painful.

That you guys helped facilitate the snake of Jones was just kinda the fitting dagger twist too :)
 

DJnVa

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j-man

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SS Chuck Clark with a torn ACL and done for the (a) year.

Huge fall from Clark to Adrian Amos, that's going to be a problem I would think.
IDK about that Amos is a good death pirce it all comes down to rodgers anyway any backtrack they are 8-9 but if he is the mvp from 20 and 21 they win 12 games and challed buff but this move only works for NY IF
1 Rodgers stays 2-3 years
2 gets to at least 1 Super bowl
 

snowmanny

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They haven’t made the playoffs since 2010. Even if he stays only one year (doubt that) and they make the playoffs it is a rousing success.
 

ifmanis5

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Get that popcorn ready...
View: https://twitter.com/DEADLINE/status/1679215882709487617

The New York Jets and their high-profile new quarterback, Aaron Rodgers, will be the focus of this year’s installment of HBO’s long-running Hard Knocks, according to multiple media reports Show more

View: https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1679132511593439233

NFL and NFL Films have selected the New York Jets to serve as this year’s team on Hard Knocks, per sources. Jets report to training camp one week from today, July 19, and the cameras will be rolling in full force.
 

snowmanny

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You can decline if you’ve made the playoffs in either of the previous two years or if there’s a first year coach. A lot on the line this year.
 

Euclis20

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Ah, thanks. Apologies for a likely already discussed question, but how have the Patriots been able to avoid it all these years?
You can also say no if you have a new head coach, or if you've made the playoffs in the last two seasons. The Pats haven't had back to back years out of the playoffs since 2000, so no hard knocks.

100% if the Pats miss the playoffs this year and Belichick returns for 2024, we're the hard knocks team.

*edit - the requirements actually weed out a lot of teams. The only eligible teams this year were the Jets, Bears, Saints and Commanders. Easy choice to make it the Jets this year.
 

cornwalls@6

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You can also say no if you have a new head coach, or if you've made the playoffs in the last two seasons. The Pats haven't had back to back years out of the playoffs since 2000, so no hard knocks.

100% if the Pats miss the playoffs this year and Belichick returns for 2024, we're the hard knocks team.
Thanks for the info........... Should be extra motivated BB this year;)
 

SemperFidelisSox

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There’s already so much pressure and attention on this Jets team, and now there will be cameras in their faces 24/7 all throughout training camp. It will make for great tv, especially when they crack and lose to Buffalo 34-10 in Week 1.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Man, this board may implode when the Jets are good next year. Rodgers is a great QB with gas in the tank and they are a strong team. It’s the NFL. If you stink for a while and don’t completely fuck up your draft, and then mortgage your cap future, you can be really good in the short term if you want.

They have a really good team. Maybe not Super Bowl good given the AFC’s strength, but really good. Hard knocks is not going to change that. That’s wishful thinking.
 

54thMA

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Man, this board may implode when the Jets are good next year. Rodgers is a great QB with gas in the tank and they are a strong team. It’s the NFL. If you stink for a while and don’t completely fuck up your draft, and then mortgage your cap future, you can be really good in the short term if you want.

They have a really good team. Maybe not Super Bowl good given the AFC’s strength, but really good. Hard knocks is not going to change that. That’s wishful thinking.
If they're good, they're good, not going to change my life either way if they are good or bad.

And "maybe not Super Bowl good" isn't going to cut it; it's Super Bowl or bust, I doubt if Jets fans will be happy with "just making the playoffs" and not getting to the Super Bowl.
 

EvilEmpire

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A good playoff run would be a success. The "Super Bowl or bust" stuff is nonsense. There are plenty of strong teams at the top and the Jets are maybe in that tier, but they certainly aren't at the top of it.

The only team I can ever think of as "Super Bowl or bust" was the 2007 Patriots about 3/4 of the way through the season. Maybe if the Jets make it that far undefeated expectations will be similar. But it isn't going to happen.
 

tims4wins

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A good playoff run would be a success. The "Super Bowl or bust" stuff is nonsense. There are plenty of strong teams at the top and the Jets are maybe in that tier, but they certainly aren't at the top of it.

The only team I can ever think of as "Super Bowl or bust" was the 2007 Patriots about 3/4 of the way through the season. Maybe if the Jets make it that far undefeated expectations will be similar. But it isn't going to happen.
Really? As a Pats fan I felt basically every year from 2010 or 2011 on was Super Bowl or Bust. Even 2009 I felt that way until Welker got hurt in week 17.
 

EvilEmpire

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I'm not a Pats fan, so I'll take your word for it.

Maybe if the Jets have such a sustained run of success over the course of several years, I'll think similar. But right now? Just because they signed Rodgers and the defense is good?

No way.

Make the playoffs and beat the teams that they should be better than. Losing to teams as good as the Bills, Bengals or KC have been won't be a surprise. That's the tier the Jets want to be in and there is a long way to go before they are. If they ever are at all.
 

luckiestman

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My daughter was less than a year old the last time the handsome Mark Sanchez and Jesters kicked the ever-loving shit out of someone in a playoff game. I don't remember the opponent. If we win two playoff games, I'm going on a darkness retreat. I haven't even considered what I would do if they win the SB. It is not SB or bust for me. I'll bust if they win the SB, but I don't know what else.
 

tims4wins

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My daughter was less than a year old the last time the handsome Mark Sanchez and Jesters kicked the ever-loving shit out of someone in a playoff game. I don't remember the opponent. If we win two playoff games, I'm going on a darkness retreat. I haven't even considered what I would do if they win the SB. It is not SB or bust for me. I'll bust if they win the SB, but I don't know what else.
For a long stretch, this was such a painful loss for us. But now I get to look back gleefully that the Rex-era Jets claim to fame was back to back AFCCGs... and then the Pats went to 8 in a row.