2023-2024 General NBA Season Thread
- Thread starter BigSoxFan
- Start date
Too early to say for sure, but watching both him and Keegan Murray makes you think there may a market inefficiency for nominally “old” “low ceiling” guys who kicked ass in the Big 10. (Murray was picked #4, but projected a lot lower than that, and Sac got heat in some parts for picking him that high — including by me, IIRC).
TJD almost certainly has a lower ceiling than Murray, as he was drafted a year older, and has more built-in limitations as an undersized big who doesn’t shoot threes. But man, his great hands, quick feet, hops, motor, aggression, and hoops IQ stand out right away. Seems playable starting opening night. Sort of the anti-Wiseman.
As to why he fell all the way to #57: beyond the “older, undersized big” issue: Dunleavy’s brother is his agent, so there may have been some shenanigans. The second round is such a crap shoot that I could see teams being pretty okay with passing on a player whose agent is obviously trying to land him another team. The Warriors were also willing to give him a guaranteed roster spot, which some teams reportedly were not.
Fun trivia: he makes *five* sons of NBA players on the GS roster, with Steph, Klay, Wiggins, and Payton.
I wanted Brad to take him in the 1st. This kid never should have fallen to the 2nd nevermind almost going completely Undrafted.
Absolutely. I don't qualify coaching and coaching staffs as mattering a whole lot but that is due to NBA-level coaching staffs having little separation. CJM and last years staff was an anomaly that I don't recall ever seeing in the NBA when the prior years second row staff is now leading the team....with all the assts being loyal to the prior coach. The only type of disarray in the same ballpark that I recall was when Scal was part of that fiasco in Golden State.
That GSW-Sac preseason game is why I'm very high on the in-season tournament. If you tell NBA players "you don't have to get up every night, but get up for THIS game", they tend to do it. I think we're going to see some serious intensity and fun in Nov/Dec, which would be cool.
Weakside shotblockers like Chet and Timelord rarely guard the other team's bruising big wings in any case. Chet will be just fine (if healthy): he's a talent, and there are plenty of ways to keep a shooting, skilled shotblocker on the floor against basically anyone.
Agreed and that game is a great example. I've heard some people downplay it as nothing which I don't think will be the case once the games begin. I expect this thing to get fairly big. To the naysayers....what is the downside that concerns you?
Do you think the league will eventually move the tournament final into the current dog days of the season, like March or so?
We likely won't get them but I want all of the Iguodala stories. A lot of NBA careers are fascinating but his is particularly interesting. Went from what seemed like a disappointment in Philly (unfair expectations imo) to a seasoned vet for Denver -until he shivved Karl - to effectively the first missing piece for the ascendant Dubs. He's seen a thing or two...
Did he sign an Exhibit 10 so that being waived is the procedure for him to be "stashed" on their G-League team? If the Warriors have too many guaranteed contracts maybe this was the plan all along until things shook out. Aside from that this would seem very strange.
I think you're thinking of 2 way deals, there is no limit on service time to just play in the G-League, Brandon Jennings for example had 8 or 9 years of service time when he went to China, then he came back and signed with a G-League team.
Green is an exhibit 9, but that just means he's not an affiliate player , he can pick any team's affiliate or go sign oversees
Fun little visualization here by ESPN. Maybe a bit of a campy concept, but it's nice to have a little waltz through basketball-time and remember some guys. And the most meaningful part - the fraction of league roster spots and minutes going to international players - definitely stood out and makes the basic thesis hold up.
https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/36481272/joel-embiid-nikola-jokic-victor-wembanyama-international-star-power-nba
https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/36481272/joel-embiid-nikola-jokic-victor-wembanyama-international-star-power-nba
And after having a hell of a preseason, Jordan Poole tonight has:
7 points on 1/15 shooting, 0/6 from 3,, 2 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal., and a-18 rating, in 20 minutes..
I feel like I remember this guy roller coastering a lot, but this may be even more extreme.
7 points on 1/15 shooting, 0/6 from 3,, 2 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal., and a-18 rating, in 20 minutes..
I feel like I remember this guy roller coastering a lot, but this may be even more extreme.
He had one incredible game out of four.
18 pts on 6-13 fg v the Cairns Taipans
11 pts on 2-13 fg v CHA
41 pts on 10-19 fg v NYK
7 pts on 1-15 fg v TOR
19-60 FG overall, though with a good number of FT. The Jordan Poole experience...
Based on this quote, I am now a Clippers fan.
Clippers/Denver west finals will be great
View: https://twitter.com/malika_andrews/status/1720202953326485866?s=20
Clippers/Denver west finals will be great
View: https://twitter.com/malika_andrews/status/1720202953326485866?s=20
Do we need/want a thread specifically for the in-season tournament?
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-in-season-tournament-how-to-watch-schedule-tv-live-stream-first-night-of-games/
East Group A: Cleveland Cavaliers at Indiana Pacers
Scale of 1-10, how interested are people in this? I see them as regular season games but I dunno...maybe there's a little juice in this?
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-in-season-tournament-how-to-watch-schedule-tv-live-stream-first-night-of-games/
East Group A: Cleveland Cavaliers at Indiana Pacers
- Date: Friday, Nov. 3 | Time: 7 p.m. ET
- Location: Gainsbridge Fieldhouse -- Indianapolis, Indiana
- TV channel: None | Streaming: League Pass
- Odds: Not yet released
- Date: Friday, Nov. 3 | Time: 7:30 p.m. ET
- Location: Fiserv Forum -- Milwaukee, Wisconsin
- TV channel: ESPN | Streaming: fuboTV (Try for free)
- Odds: Not yet released
- Date: Friday, Nov. 3 | Time: 8 p.m. ET
- Location: Paycom Center -- Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
- TV channel: None | Streaming: League Pass
- Odds: Not yet released
- Date: Friday, Nov. 3 | Time: 8 p.m. ET
- Location: United Center -- Chicago, Illinois
- TV channel: None | Streaming: League Pass
- Odds: Bulls -3.5 | O/U: 220.5
- Date: Friday, Nov. 3 | Time: 8 p.m. ET
- Location: Kaseya Arena -- Miami, Florida
- TV channel: None | Streaming: League Pass
- Odds: Heat -9.5 | O/U: 226
- Date: Friday, Nov. 3 | Time: 10 p.m. ET
- Location: Moda Center -- Portland, Oregon
- TV channel: None | Streaming: League Pass
- Odds: Grizzlies -2 | O/U: 218.5
- Date: Friday, Nov. 3 | Time: 10 p.m. ET
- Location: Ball Arena -- Denver, Colorado
- TV channel: ESPN | Streaming: fuboTV (Try for free)
- Odds: Not yet released
Scale of 1-10, how interested are people in this? I see them as regular season games but I dunno...maybe there's a little juice in this?
Thats where I am at. until I see this with different intensity across the entire tourney then they are just in season gamnes to me.
As soon as I found out the players were overwhelmingly in favor of it, my interest skyrocketed.
You will see it right out of the gate so get ready. When basketball players have a reason to compete for something it is an easy flick of the switch. We saw this in the final preseason game between the Warriors and Kings game if anyone needs evidence of this to be true....and that was a preseason game.
Absolutely, yes. Then I can talk about my scheme to include international teams in future years, if and when we make this single-elimination.
I'm like a 7. It's not what I'm thinking about when I think of my hopes for the Celtics this year, but it's going to be fun as hell because you're giving some of the most hypercompetitive people on earth a reason to take these games 100% seriously. And while it might not matter as much to the stars, each player on the winning team getting $500,000 (finals loser $200k pp, semifinal losers $100k pp) would be huge for the end-of-roster and two-way guys.
Ok mods, could you break out the in-season tourney as a separate thread and include the discussion we've had here? I could start a new thread but I wouldn't have the ability to include the thoughts of everyone on this topic so far. Thanks.
Agree. Coaches are going to coach these games to win, and players will respond accordingly. I don't necessarily expect that starters will all play 40+ minutes in the round-robin games; bench players will have a bigger role than they normally would in the playoffs. But it does seem like everyone is bought in to try to make it work.
This is an unusually scathing take on a superstar's play by a national media outlet.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/damian-lillard-is-playing-the-worst-defense-of-his-career-and-it-might-cost-more-than-just-the-bucks/
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/damian-lillard-is-playing-the-worst-defense-of-his-career-and-it-might-cost-more-than-just-the-bucks/
I stopped reading here:
"Other than that, these scoring-sensation point guards who can't guard a lick do not win or even play for titles. Go look. You won't find a single one, not even prime James Harden, that made it to an NBA Finals this century, and before that they didn't really exist. "
Allen Iverson and the 2001 NBA Finals say hello, admittedly it was on a team surrounded by defense-first players but still. You can make your same case without twisting history a bit and hoping people won't check.
"Other than that, these scoring-sensation point guards who can't guard a lick do not win or even play for titles. Go look. You won't find a single one, not even prime James Harden, that made it to an NBA Finals this century, and before that they didn't really exist. "
Allen Iverson and the 2001 NBA Finals say hello, admittedly it was on a team surrounded by defense-first players but still. You can make your same case without twisting history a bit and hoping people won't check.
I guess, although it's rare to have a SG three inches shorter than a PG, so I'm sure Iverson guarded PGs at least as much as he did SGs.
When the one guy that you can think of played 14 years in the league, winning an MVP, and had all-NBA votes 12 times and only went to one finals 22 years ago, I'm not sure that you're making the point that you think that you're making.
Sure, it's possible for a diminutive defense-impaired guard to lead a team to the finals. It just doesn't really happen.
I am merely rebutting the quoted point, the one that says "Go look. You won't find a single one" when there's no reason for the writer to say that. That kind of sentence triggers my brain to try to do just that, it's just how I'm wired, for better and worse.
I always regret posting on the hoops threads here, I need to do it even less.
Those videos are pretty bad
I've watched the Bucks numerous times this year and Dame likes to jog back on D (so do the JAYs occasionally)
That's incredible. Those clips are absolutely damning, thankfully for them he's got the entire year to turn it around. All the time in the world won't make him faster or stronger, but those clips show a stupid, lazy, unengaged defender. Those are fixable for a HOF level player.
Snow guarded whichever depended was going to force a Sixer guard to expend the most energy from my recollection.
Agreed. A defense is only as good as its weakest link
Diminutive PGs that float can be troublesome. We all suffer from PKS
Post-Kemba Syndrome
Pre-Celtics Nate Archibald existed. Didn't play much defense. Led the league in scoring and assists. Even Pete Maravich was getting 5-6APG (top 10 or 20) while shooting out the lights. The overall point about titles may be right. But the final clause is not.
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Well, he has two theses.
One is that Milwaukee, and particularly Lillard, are so bad on defense (because of team scheme/personnel and Dame’s individual effort) that without a change they are headed towards failing in the playoffs. Makes a pretty good case.
The second is that it is virtually impossible to win a title with a supernova scoring guard if that guard sucks defensively. And Dame’s upcoming 2024 failure will be a warning that other players like Young (and who else? Morant? Luka?) will never win no matter with whom they are paired. That argument seems way shakier to me.
I don't really see the relevancy in looking back in history and saying "Nobody has won with a smaller guard." Not only is the game completely different, and more favorable for smaller guards than it ever has been before, but there is also the fact that Dame isn't even the best player on his team.
In the playoffs probably, but it's certainly possible to put together a good to great defense even with having a small, terrible defender at the point. Beyond Kemba, the Celtics had small point guards whose defense ranged from bad to worst in the league, from 2016-2020 (IT-->Kyrie-->Kemba) and still put up good defensive numbers. Here's where the Celtics finished in defensive rating over those 5 years: 4th, 13th, 1st, 7th, 4th. And that was without having an individual defender like Giannis on the roster.
Not terribly rare these days
LaMelo 6'7", Rozier 6'1"
Simmons 6'10", Thomas 6'4"
Luka 6'7", Kyrie 6'2"
SGA 6'6", Dort 6'3"
Sochan 6'9", Vassell 6'5"
Those Dame clips are pretty bad. It's just the regular season, but nothing in his career suggests that he has an amazing extra defensive level to reach in the playoffs, particularly now that he's old.
Does he want to be in Milwaukee? I mean want want. He was clearly fine getting dealt to play with Giannis, but if the team struggles, at what point is he just like "fuck Joe for sending me to this shit cold town?"
Does he want to be in Milwaukee? I mean want want. He was clearly fine getting dealt to play with Giannis, but if the team struggles, at what point is he just like "fuck Joe for sending me to this shit cold town?"