2022 Seahawks: Should we trust PC/JS anymore???

wibi

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The 2022 off-season has turned out very different than originally expected for Seahawks fans. Post super bowl there was a serious expectation that Seattle would be adding more pieces to the offense in an attempt to make one last run at a title before Russell Wilson's contract expired. That all changed when Seattle traded Wilson to Denver for a multitude of draft picks and three players. Wilson had 2 years left on his contract (2022 @ 24M and 2023 @ 27M) and rumors were flying that he would not resign with the Seahawks once that deal expired. Wilson publicly said he wanted to stay in Seattle but privately (per rumors) it was obvious he wanted out. As painful as it was to see Wilson depart I believe trading his at this point was the right move because he a) will be 35 at the end of his deal and part of his success has been as a result of his legs which dont normally age well and b) given the nature of the contract Aaron Rodgers just signed Wilson would be looking for something similar. Both of those reasons plus Wilson wanting out of Seattle make this a move that as a fan I dont like but can completely understand from the business of running a team.

The last member of the famed Legion of Boom departed with the release of Bobby Wagner and with that the Seahawks were in a full rebuild mode. Bobby's release was more painful to Seahawks fans because it wasnt expected. Bobby was more of a fan favorite than Wilson in a lot of ways as he never really caused drama and just went about being the best LB he could be. In his last season with Seattle he finished 3rd in the league in tackles but was second on the Seahawks to Jordyn Brooks in tackles (184 to 170.) Brooks rise is the primary reason why Seattle was willing to move on from Wagner.

Where does that leave Seattle going into 2022?

Lots of holes at key positions and lots of questions to be answered.

What do they do about a QB? Do they have any chance of having a decent OL to allow for the development of a rookie QB? Do they trade Lockett or DK, the latter of who is in the final year of his rookie contract? What do they do with Jamal Adams? How is the defense going to look having switched from a 4-3 cover-2 vanilla package to a 3-4 package under newly promoted DC Clint Hurtt? Is Sean Desai the replacement to Pete Carroll?
 

RSN Diaspora

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I'm assuming Drew Lock is a Cam Newton-esque stopgap QB. How do Shelby Harris and Noah Fant factor in their plans? Obviously Harris is on the older side, but Fant is young and on record bemoaning the squandering of his talent in Denver. The draft picks were clearly central to Seattle's haul, but I'm curious how to define a successful trade here with the active players sent along with those picks.
 

Dogman

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Thank you for starting this thread. Watching the rebuild should be very interesting with the bevy of picks, the increase in cap next year, and the potential for coaching changes. I was certainly wrong on what Seattle would receive in a trade for Wilson so that was fun.

Please be respectful of this Seahawks conversation and posters engaging in good faith discussion. There will be no tolerance for any trolling.

This thread should blossom similar to the Bengals, Raiders, Dolphins, Broncos, and Cowboys threads.
 

wibi

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I'm assuming Drew Lock is a Cam Newton-esque stopgap QB. How do Shelby Harris and Noah Fant factor in their plans? Obviously Harris is on the older side, but Fant is young and on record bemoaning the squandering of his talent in Denver. The draft picks were clearly central to Seattle's haul, but I'm curious how to define a successful trade here with the active players sent along with those picks.
I sure hope Lock is just a stopgap QB but I also dont want them taking a developmental QB until they have the OL fixed to be able to provide protection.

Harris is going to help provide some much needed pressure from the DL which is something SEA was horrible at over the past couple of seasons. They were having to rush 5 or 6 just to get any pressure on the QB which is not going to allow your D to perform at higher levels.

Fant is a real wild card here because when he gets used correctly he can be an absolute game changer (similar to Kelce for me.) Wilson was the main reason SEA because the place that TEs came to die as he never would just take the easy pass. He would scramble and then find someone open down the field. That has to change under any QB not named Wilson
 

DanoooME

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This team now has more holes than Swiss cheese, and it's very evident now that their best players on offense and defense are gone. I expect multiple trade downs to grab more draft picks. I think if John & Pete have someone they love at 9, they are going to keep the pick, otherwise they'll drop down. They'll probably keep #40 and trade #41 for more picks. There's something like a 120 pick span where they have no picks and I'm sure they'll try to fill it in.

Just about zero chance that they pick a QB in the first round. Pete's never done that (and hasn't had to do that). Plus this QB class blows and I can't wait to see what teams screw themselves picking QBs in the 1st, because none of them are good enough for that. I really want them to suck in 2022 and get one of the studs coming out next year, but that may not happen either.

Lock is filler until they figure out what to do next. Like Wibi said above, they need to fix the OL before they get a QB so they don't kill the poor guy.

The only average or above players on the roster are:
Offense - Metcalf, Lockett, Fant, maybe Penny. Eskridge has potential if he gets healthy. That's it. With the departures of Brown and Shell, the line is the worst in the league and it wasn't much better with them, so no point in spending money on them.
Defense - Brooks, Adams, Diggs, Harris, maybe Taylor, maybe Tre Brown if he can stay healthy.
ST - Dickson is awesome, Myers is overpaid but serviceable, and Izzo might be the best ST coach in the league right now. He turned that part of the team around from garbage under Brian Schneider (no relation to John) to excellent with a lot of the same guys.

The most curious aspect is the slow change over the past few years from a 4-3 Cover 3, to a hybrid 4-3 Cover 2 & Cover 3 mix, to a 3-4. I don't know that Pete's ever run a 3-4. I'll be curious how that goes. At this point, I'd say the line is Harris, Ford, and one of Woods, Mone, Collier. LBs are Taylor, Brooks, Barton, Nwosu. Secondary is Jones, Burns (ugh), Adams, Diggs with Tre Brown in the wings to replace Burns sooner than later and Coleman likely playing slot. I'd like to see them play a lot of 3 safety looks with Ryan Neal and let Adams loose. I hope Clint Hurtt does utilize his strengths, otherwise why the hell did they trade for/extend him? KNJ putting a noose on him last year was grounds enough for firing him by itself.

I can't see them winning more than 7 games, especially with 6 tough games against the NFC West and 4 against the other strong division, AFC West. Plus, they get Brady. That has the potential to be 11 losses right there. This year's draft and next are going to be key to their future. If they blow either or especially both, they should clean house and start over.
 

DanoooME

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I'm assuming Drew Lock is a Cam Newton-esque stopgap QB. How do Shelby Harris and Noah Fant factor in their plans? Obviously Harris is on the older side, but Fant is young and on record bemoaning the squandering of his talent in Denver. The draft picks were clearly central to Seattle's haul, but I'm curious how to define a successful trade here with the active players sent along with those picks.
Fant should like the offense, as Russell is gone and Waldron like to use the TE a lot, so Waldron is probably salivating at what he can do with Fant. If the QB situation isn't a total disaster, I could see Fant having a Pro Bowl season. Lock is filler. J-man has a lot of good things to say about Shelby Harris, so I'm hoping he can fill a JJ Watt-type slot on the DL. If he can be 80% of JJ, that's a really good player and someone they can build the line around.
 

johnmd20

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I'm wondering how that is supposed to change in Seattle, considering he still has Lock throwing to him and now a coach that probably wants to run even more without an elite quarterback.
Unless Seattle is in full tank mode, Lock won't be getting the majority of the starts this season.
 

JohnnyK

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Do you think Seattle will draft someone? I don't really think Geno Smith or Jacob Eason would lead to drastically different outcomes.
 

mauf

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Is the Week 1 starter at QB even on the current roster? The Browns are biding their time, but they absolutely have to move Baker Mayfield before training camp opens. I think Carolina is a more likely landing spot, but if no market develops for Mayfield and he only costs money, why not take a flier?
 

RSN Diaspora

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I sure hope Lock is just a stopgap QB but I also dont want them taking a developmental QB until they have the OL fixed to be able to provide protection.

Harris is going to help provide some much needed pressure from the DL which is something SEA was horrible at over the past couple of seasons. They were having to rush 5 or 6 just to get any pressure on the QB which is not going to allow your D to perform at higher levels.

Fant is a real wild card here because when he gets used correctly he can be an absolute game changer (similar to Kelce for me.) Wilson was the main reason SEA because the place that TEs came to die as he never would just take the easy pass. He would scramble and then find someone open down the field. That has to change under any QB not named Wilson
All of this makes sense. I guess what I'm wondering is if there's a way to determine the value of this trade in the near future. Put another way, like Seattle, the Pats have only won Super Bowls with one QB under center. So if Brady had been traded rather than deciding to leave, how would I be able to determine if the trade was ultimately the right thing to do. Maybe it's not quantifiable until after all the draft picks are made/traded, and maybe not even then. I feel like had it been Brady, we'd immediately divide into camps of "You can't trade Brady, he's the GOAT" and "Pass more of the BB Kool-Aid: he did what he had to do for the long-term health of the franchise" with little in the way of data metrics.
 

johnmd20

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Is the Week 1 starter at QB even on the current roster? The Browns are biding their time, but they absolutely have to move Baker Mayfield before training camp opens. I think Carolina is a more likely landing spot, but if no market develops for Mayfield and he only costs money, why not take a flier?
Baker would be a solid pickup for any team, assuming he's healthy. A healthy Baker Mayfield is eons better than Drew Lock. But Baker, if he has a great season, will want a lot more money after 2022. And then he might not be worth it.
 

wibi

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@RSN Diaspora I think we are having a very different conversation about Wilson if Seattle won that second super bowl. Between that loss and the inability for the Seahawks to get any real value out of their top picks make Wilson feel like a good QB not a great QB.

The two QBs I have seen linked to Seattle are Sam Howell (North Carolina) and Matt Corral (Ole Miss.) Im not sure Seattle takes either of them but gives Lock a real chance under Waldron and the new offensive scheme. Seattle's offense likely ends up looking significantly different with Waldron getting a chance to setup the scheme he wants and not trying to mesh it with Wilson's play style.

Blake Bortles was just released by NO and he is someone I would love to see Seattle take a shot at.

That being said, I'm 100% with Dano that I would rather see a full tank from the QB position and use the draft to get a better OL and a better D.
 

Dogman

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I'm very much in the camp that SF releases Jimmy G. Pre and post 6/1 release or trade, his dead cap hit is only 1.4M and cap savings are 25.5M. I cannot see how SF keeps him around or finds a trading partner to take on that cap hit.

Would Jimmy be an option for Seattle?
 

E5 Yaz

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I'm very much in the camp that SF releases Jimmy G. Pre and post 6/1 release or trade, his dead cap hit is only 1.4M and cap savings are 25.5M. I cannot see how SF keeps him around or finds a trading partner to take on that cap hit.

Would Jimmy be an option for Seattle?
I've thought of this scenario as well. Of course, I've also thought that SF would be an interesting place for Baker as Lance insurance
 

wibi

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I'm very much in the camp that SF releases Jimmy G. Pre and post 6/1 release or trade, his dead cap hit is only 1.4M and cap savings are 25.5M. I cannot see how SF keeps him around or finds a trading partner to take on that cap hit.

Would Jimmy be an option for Seattle?
I'd that Jimmy G in a heartbeat if he gets released. Not really willing to pay draft picks for him however
 

j-man

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I'm assuming Drew Lock is a Cam Newton-esque stopgap QB. How do Shelby Harris and Noah Fant factor in their plans? Obviously Harris is on the older side, but Fant is young and on record bemoaning the squandering of his talent in Denver. The draft picks were clearly central to Seattle's haul, but I'm curious how to define a successful trade here with the active players sent along with those picks.
Fant has a lot of abittry harris is underrated but Lock it's very up/down he has a great arm but lacks acc
 

j-man

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Fant should like the offense, as Russell is gone and Waldron like to use the TE a lot, so Waldron is probably salivating at what he can do with Fant. If the QB situation isn't a total disaster, I could see Fant having a Pro Bowl season. Lock is filler. J-man has a lot of good things to say about Shelby Harris, so I'm hoping he can fill a JJ Watt-type slot on the DL. If he can be 80% of JJ, that's a really good player and someone they can build the line around.
i agree with everything u say ex idk if S Harris is J J watt he is more of a Aheim hicks type but for this wilson trade to work u need to hit your picks fant shouild make a pro bowl he has A LOT of talent if he can block betther he will be a top 5 te Lock loves the deep ball too he is just very up/down
 

j-man

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i wouild love jimmy g for seattle it wouild make these 2 SEA/SF must see tv baker wants to throw throw he loves stats
 

SMU_Sox

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I think with Seattle when you had the horses they did back in their LoB days they could run that scheme to perfection. In a lot of ways it was innovative at the time too. Unfortunately they don’t have the guys to do that anymore as well as the league has adjusted to that scheme. It’s telling imo that Dan Quinn really made some big adjustments to his defense in Dallas vs what he tried to run in Atlanta.

I worry about their drafting. That’s where I am not sure I would trust the front office. They march to the beat of their own drum which can be both good because you aren’t chasing after the same pool of players everyone else is but bad because you might be off on some of your player evaluations.
I feel like they would be really interested in Trevor Penning this year. I’ll be blunt his technique is dog shit and it’s going to need a TON of work but his nasty attitude and incredible athleticism make him a coveted prospect this year. He loves to maul people in the run game. He’s a high risk high reward super athlete with the kind of traits you look for in an OT.

There are a lot of defensive prospects who tested off the charts this year.
Is Seattle still going for the sparq athletes and going for athleticism highly or have they changed their approach a bit?
 

DanoooME

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I worry about their drafting. That’s where I am not sure I would trust the front office. They march to the beat of their own drum which can be both good because you aren’t chasing after the same pool of players everyone else is but bad because you might be off on some of your player evaluations.
That's mostly Pete, so it's not going to change until he's gone. Schneider has never done his own draft, so it's hard to say what he'd do without Pete.

I feel like they would be really interested in Trevor Penning this year. I’ll be blunt his technique is dog shit and it’s going to need a TON of work but his nasty attitude and incredible athleticism make him a coveted prospect this year. He loves to maul people in the run game. He’s a high risk high reward super athlete with the kind of traits you look for in an OT.
Now that they don't really have a QB they will be looking for run-oriented lineman, so Penning and Raimannn are going to interest them, while somebody like Cross will not.

There are a lot of defensive prospects who tested off the charts this year.
Is Seattle still going for the sparq athletes and going for athleticism highly or have they changed their approach a bit?
Yes, they are still enamored with physical studs. Particularly at positions of need, you will see some of those people under consideration.

Personally, I think this is the path for the Seattle draft:

#9 trade down in 1st, pick up extra day 2 and 3 picks
#? pick BPA
#40 OL or RB or DL
#41 trade down for more picks

End up with 1 or 2 OL, 1 or 2 RB, 1 or 2 DL, WR, LB, 1 or 2 CB. I don't expect a QB, TE or a S. They may draft a K this year with a late pick.
 

DanoooME

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And they ended up taking Cross, which goes to show you what the fuck I know. I think they set their minds on getting a LT with #9 and he was by far the best left.

My predictions for today still stand. I would guess their 3rd rounder (#72) will end up with a WR or CB.
 

DaubachmanTurnerOD

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@DanooME - how would you feel about them taking Malik in Round 2? Excited? Or does it feel a year early for any QB pick?
 

DanoooME

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@DanooME - how would you feel about them taking Malik in Round 2? Excited? Or does it feel a year early for any QB pick?
I'd have been okay with him in the 3rd. The problem with Willis is he really needs a lot of work, and he'd be on the wrong team for that, as Seattle doesn't really have that type of staff, plus Pete is going to run, run, run this year, so even if Willis started, he wouldn't have gotten the reps and coaching needed to develop him properly. If they take a QB, it's likely Sam Howell or Carson Strong. They may not. This team has a ton of holes to fill and QB is one of the last ones they should be dealing with. Drafting two tackles this year, if they both pan out, is going to work out great for them. Then they can pick a QB next year, assuming the team is going to suck given it's Drew Lock or Geno Smith under center. They aren't trading anything for Jimmy G or Mayfield. Especially Mayfield. Mayfield always wanted to throw even when the Browns had one of the top rushing offenses. Jimmy G would probably be more open to Pete's system. They might pick up Jimmy G if he gets released, but I think he gets a bigger offer to play somewhere else than Seattle would want to invest. I don't think they even bother making an offer to Mayfield. Pete really doesn't think QB is that important (and he's probably wrong on that).

My dream would be they completely suck next year, get the #1 or #2 pick and get either Stroud or Young and be set going into 2023 with a top young QB, a better run game, two great WRs, a much improved OL, and likely an improved defense as well. Even if they ended up bad enough to get a top-2 pick, I'm not convinced they won't deal that pick for a massive haul and say fuck it, we'll fill the rest of the holes and win with a game manager. Pete is a run-oriented dinosaur, and even when he had arguably the best deep throwing QB in the league (and top 10 overall), he still wanted to run the ball. QB is not a priority for him.

I don’t get the RB in 2nd at all. What’s wrong with Penny?
4 seasons, 37 career games played out of 65, 6 starts (all last year after he finally got a little healthy). Those 6 starts had 4 great games against run defenses in HOU (terrible), DET (awful), CHI (awful) and ARI (terrible). The 2 good run defenses he faced (Rams, 49ers), he averaged 3.5 YPC. I like him, but he's fragile, Chris Carson's career may be over, and the rest of the guys are decent backups/special teamers, but no one that can significantly help carry the load. I'm happy Walker was there. I expected them to pick Dameon Pierce in day 3 (and they may still do that), but I fully expected a RB pick early given the fragility of what they have.
 

wibi

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I absolutely loved this draft. I didnt want any of the QBs outside of Howell from UNC. That trade down in the 5th was directly a result of WFT taking Howell with the first pick in the 5th round. I think he gets taken by Seattle with the second pick if he was still there. Getting Cross and Lucas should provide a significant upgrade in both the run game and pass protection. The OL is average on the interior but their edge protection is setup for a while now. Mafe is going to bring a bit of pressure off the edge but more importantly will likely allow Adams to be used more blitz packages going forward. One of Bryant or Woolen have a real shot to start day one over Sidney Jones. Woolen reminds me a lot of a very vocal former Seahawks player who made the same WR to CB transition. I'm not big on either of the late round WR picks but Bo Melton might surprise me with the pure speed he has. Walker has a real chance to be a stud in SEA since Pete loves the workhorse back and Walker reminds me of a younger Marshawn who can make the cuts but also isnt going to go down at first contract.

I'm really curious about the UDFA QB they signed out of Louisiana in Levi Lewis. The best description I have heard about him is that he is a store brand version of RW3. Holds the ball too long sometimes, will avoid contact by running 10 yards to gain 3, and isnt afraid of the deep ball. Great in play action and RPO. I doubt he makes the team but I hope I'm wrong.