2022 PGA Tour

fletcherpost

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I am loving this Scottish Open coverage. European style courses are such a great change of pace
Not to be nit picky but what you're looking at is a Scottish Style Course. We don't have much but we do have unique links courses. In fact the East Course links coruses are different to the west coast links courses because of the wind.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Legacy is great and all but $100M is a lot of money.
To be clear, 100M is a lot to you and me, but for a bunch of these guys, it's really not. Dustin Johnson has already made a reported $200m in his career, including 41mil from June, 2020-May, 2021. These guys have millions banked in their pensions too (over 600 PGA players have over 1mil banked, and over 115 players have over 3mil banked). Phil Mickelson has made over a billion dollars. A guy like Kevin Na has made almost $40m just in on-course earnings, nevermind endorsements. These guys get large checks just for playing in Wednesday Pro-Am's, etc.

Rob Oppenheim needs to get one more PGA card to qualify for their pension. It's literally the only reason he hasn't taken a very cushy club pro job yet. That pension alone would allow a guy like him to essentially do nothing but play golf forever, and he can't sniff top 300 or so in the world. The guys that LIV is throwing $100M at, are already the wealthiest of the wealthy in golf.
 

E5 Yaz

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Not to be nit picky but what you're looking at is a Scottish Style Course. We don't have much but we do have unique links courses. In fact the East Course links coruses are different to the west coast links courses because of the wind.
What do you know? You think Gregory's Girl is better than Local Hero. :drunk:
 

Doug Beerabelli

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To be clear, 100M is a lot to you and me, but for a bunch of these guys, it's really not. Dustin Johnson has already made a reported $200m in his career, including 41mil from June, 2020-May, 2021. These guys have millions banked in their pensions too (over 600 PGA players have over 1mil banked, and over 115 players have over 3mil banked). Phil Mickelson has made over a billion dollars. A guy like Kevin Na has made almost $40m just in on-course earnings, nevermind endorsements. These guys get large checks just for playing in Wednesday Pro-Am's, etc.

Rob Oppenheim needs to get one more PGA card to qualify for their pension. It's literally the only reason he hasn't taken a very cushy club pro job yet. That pension alone would allow a guy like him to essentially do nothing but play golf forever, and he can't sniff top 300 or so in the world. The guys that LIV is throwing $100M at, are already the wealthiest of the wealthy in golf.
Does LIV actually help Rob in this quest?
 

Dave Stapleton

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I said something similar in the Open thread but the PGA and European Tour are going to have to rethink their strategy. Simply digging in and villifying those leaving for LIV simply won't work. This will not be won with threats or through the courts in my opinion.

I agree that no successful US based golfers in their prime have jumped ship yet but with Cam Smith likely to jump this can't be too far.

I say this as someone who doesn't like these developments and am upset with the way the PGA has messed this up by underestimating the threat and thinking they can simply sit back and threaten and discipline. Trying to bury defectors with poor tee times and not showing them on TV isn't going to work. I suspect that they are pinning their hopes on the World Golf Rankings and trying to shut them out of the major tourneys.

There needs to be an actual strategy on how to move forward from here.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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I said something similar in the Open thread but the PGA and European Tour are going to have to rethink their strategy. Simply digging in and villifying those leaving for LIV simply won't work. This will not be won with threats or through the courts in my opinion.

I agree that no successful US based golfers in their prime have jumped ship yet but with Cam Smith likely to jump this can't be too far.

I say this as someone who doesn't like these developments and am upset with the way the PGA has messed this up by underestimating the threat and thinking they can simply sit back and threaten and discipline. Trying to bury defectors with poor tee times and not showing them on TV isn't going to work. I suspect that they are pinning their hopes on the World Golf Rankings and trying to shut them out of the major tourneys.

There needs to be an actual strategy on how to move forward from here.
What could this strategy be? I don't see what they can actually do other than what they're doing.
 

cshea

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I think they're going to end up at the negotiating table. What an agreement looks like, I have no idea.

With the Saudi International Tournament (or whatever it's called), basically the prequel to LIV, the Tour agreed to sign the waivers to let guys go but in exchange the players agreed to play the AT&T Pro-Am (the Tour even opposite the Saudi tourny) within 2 years. I'd imagine an agreement with LIV would look similar, though on a much larger scale. Let them play 8 LIV events, but they need to play 10 PGA Tour events as well. Just pulling numbers out of my ass, but something like that.

Rory and Rahm are starting to call for Monahan to sit at the table with Norman. That seems like the next move, especially if they lose more stars over the coming days/weeks.
 

4 6 3 DP

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I guess my question is what incentive Monahan has for making a deal with Norman, other than if Rory/Rahm/JT etc threaten to walk as well. The second you open the door to PGA players playing in all these exhibitions (which is what they are, small field, 54 hole on lesser regarded golf courses) for huge money, you in essence destroy all of your non-major weeks of your schedule. TPC River Highlands will look like a Korn Ferry field. I don't know how you protect your brand and sponsors and TV ratings for most of the year. Sure, you get the 4 majors and say 8 other events a year with great fields. The rest of the year anyone with name value is playing LIV or home. Obviously there will always be full fields in every event, and you'll get the young guys coming up and making names on tour, but you lose a ton of casual fans those weeks.
 

E5 Yaz

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I guess my question is what incentive Monahan has for making a deal with Norman, other than if Rory/Rahm/JT etc threaten to walk as well.
Not that Rahm is thinking of leaving, but he was very vocal this weekend about wanting Sergio on the Ryder Cup team ... so there are side issues that are becoming problematic
 

4 6 3 DP

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Not that Rahm is thinking of leaving, but he was very vocal this weekend about wanting Sergio on the Ryder Cup team ... so there are side issues that are becoming problematic
You make a good point - maybe it's majors and Ryder Cup/Presidents Cup stay open to all so you don't weaken those products (because I don't see why the majors would choose to weaken their fields anyways).
 

Comfortably Lomb

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What could this strategy be? I don't see what they can actually do other than what they're doing.
The PGA Tour is in a tough spot. The defections of big name players are seemingly because those players feel they were not getting a big enough share of the PGA Tour revenue pie. But LIV isn't compensating based on revenue, it's out-of-pocket cash from an entity with comparatively endless cash. Even if the PGA Tour figures out a way to direct more (most?) money to big names it's still going to be less money. And I'm not sure they'll find a way to be competitive in the short term if the less important players still have a say in how the Tour is run.
 

4 6 3 DP

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To ask a little different question: wouldn't LIV have to drastically change its business model to make the actual on the ground product not feel like an exhibition? To say a different way, will the PGA tour have a product problem other than the name brand quality of their fields - or is it credible that fans in 3 years could be watching TV on a random Sunday watching a LIV event anxiously seeing if someone will drop a putt on 18? Because I can't see it based on the format, the courses they are playing, and the comments of their players....
 

cshea

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I guess my question is what incentive Monahan has for making a deal with Norman, other than if Rory/Rahm/JT etc threaten to walk as well. The second you open the door to PGA players playing in all these exhibitions (which is what they are, small field, 54 hole on lesser regarded golf courses) for huge money, you in essence destroy all of your non-major weeks of your schedule. TPC River Highlands will look like a Korn Ferry field. I don't know how you protect your brand and sponsors and TV ratings for most of the year. Sure, you get the 4 majors and say 8 other events a year with great fields. The rest of the year anyone with name value is playing LIV or home. Obviously there will always be full fields in every event, and you'll get the young guys coming up and making names on tour, but you lose a ton of casual fans those weeks.
I think at some point there is a critical mass of defections will force the Tour to talk to LIV. A lot of the elite players have said the Tour is where the best competition is, until that changes, that's where they'll play. I'm not sure how many defections need to happen, but if high profile defections continue, at some point LIV would be where the best competition is.

Any theoretical agreement would have to have the Tour protected to make sure the elite guys are spread out and it's not just the Players, majors and elevated events that they show up to.

The Cups are big time money makers and LIV has basically destroyed both of them now if the Tour continues the hard line stance.
 

4 6 3 DP

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The Cups are big time money makers and LIV has basically destroyed both of them now if the Tour continues the hard line stance.
So basically LIV has ruined some events, it's just a matter of whether it's the second tier ones (Cups) or the third tier ones (The weeklies like John Deere, etc)
 

E5 Yaz

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Feherty was noticeably reluctant to join in the discussion of LIV when it came to that on the NBC broadcast.

The next LIV event is on a Trump course in New Jersey. If there's any chance of one of those tournaments becoming a fiasco, it's that one .... given the 9/11 connection
 

jercra

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To ask a little different question: wouldn't LIV have to drastically change its business model to make the actual on the ground product not feel like an exhibition? To say a different way, will the PGA tour have a product problem other than the name brand quality of their fields - or is it credible that fans in 3 years could be watching TV on a random Sunday watching a LIV event anxiously seeing if someone will drop a putt on 18? Because I can't see it based on the format, the courses they are playing, and the comments of their players....
Or 14, or 7, or 1, or 6... All not knowing if any of it means anything as 6 guys are putting at the same time. Sounds exciting.
 

Cesar Crespo

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To ask a little different question: wouldn't LIV have to drastically change its business model to make the actual on the ground product not feel like an exhibition? To say a different way, will the PGA tour have a product problem other than the name brand quality of their fields - or is it credible that fans in 3 years could be watching TV on a random Sunday watching a LIV event anxiously seeing if someone will drop a putt on 18? Because I can't see it based on the format, the courses they are playing, and the comments of their players....
Can't they always change the courses they are playing on? If LIV is around in 3 years, it probably looks a lot different than it does now.
 

cshea

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It's not easy to change venues in a professional golf tournament.

If they wanted to make it feel less like an exhibition, they need to play 72 holes and not use a shotgun start. It'd actually be kind of cool if there was an elite level tour where the top 48 guys played 72-holes, no shotgun, with a team component. That concept sounds interesting to me. Problem is now we've got a divided golf world, some good players are on LIV some good ones are on the PGA tour, LIV is backed by the Saudi regible, and they play a stupid format.
 

Dave Stapleton

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It's not easy to change venues in a professional golf tournament.

If they wanted to make it feel less like an exhibition, they need to play 72 holes and not use a shotgun start. It'd actually be kind of cool if there was an elite level tour where the top 48 guys played 72-holes, no shotgun, with a team component. That concept sounds interesting to me. Problem is now we've got a divided golf world, some good players are on LIV some good ones are on the PGA tour, LIV is backed by the Saudi regible, and they play a stupid format.
I have not been terribly articulate bacause I don't have the answers but cshea seems to express a lot of what I am saying. Look at the ABA. They had a lot of gimmicky things that were tried to get interest (or in theory improve things). Many of these were simply dropped while others ended up being incorporated into the NBA along with the talent.

I guess my overall point is that the PGA cannot simply ignore LIV, which is what they have been trying to do. Someone said upthread about the fields for many of these tournaments. Did you see the field at John Deere?
 

E5 Yaz

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Unfortunately, this isn't like the ABA or AFL, where it was one group of owners vs another. The Saudi ownership is a wild card that creates all sorts of issues those other new leagues didn't carry with them. That's what makes the endgame of this so difficult to predict.

It's precisely tournaments like the John Deere that have the most to lose. If a super league eventually forms of the best players, the lower-tier PGA stops could see lower purses and the relatively few name players who would go to a Deere or a St Jude's won't bother.

A successful LIV Tour won't be swallowed up by a re-imagined PGA Tour. It'll exist on a separate plane ... at least until the Saudi backers decide they've gotten enough out of it
 

cshea

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This came up on NLU but a major criticism they have of the Tour in all this is that the tour did not listen to the PGL. The PGL was not Saudi backed (originally there was a small piece but they divested after player pushback) and evolved into wanting to partner with the PGA Tour.
 

Eagle3

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I'd be curious how much Feherty was making at NBC and how much he'll make doing LIV broadcasts. At 63 years old I dont blame him at all for cashing in and then retiring in a couple years. No issues with legacy or qualifying for majors, Ryder Cup, etc for him like the players.

On the other hand, I see Rahm is lobbying for Sergio to be able to play on the Ryder Cup team, even though Sergio says hes done with DPWT because he "doesn't feel the love". Screw him. Good riddance
 

voidfunkt

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Sergio can get bent. He's the whiniest prick ever.

The longer this plays out and with more defections I think the PGA is going to be forced to come to the table and accept that some of their players are going to spend time at LIV events and play in both leagues.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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Sergio can get bent. He's the whiniest prick ever.

The longer this plays out and with more defections I think the PGA is going to be forced to come to the table and accept that some of their players are going to spend time at LIV events and play in both leagues.
Won’t that just open the floodgates to way more players doing so?
 

Average Reds

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Sergio can get bent. He's the whiniest prick ever.

The longer this plays out and with more defections I think the PGA is going to be forced to come to the table and accept that some of their players are going to spend time at LIV events and play in both leagues.
The problem with this otherwise reasonable approach is that neither Greg Norman nor Phil Mickelson (who is really the “founding member” of LIV) seem interested in co-existing with the PGA Tour.

IMO, this ends one of three ways:

1. The PGA Tour collapses and/or is absorbed into LIV. Norman hates the PGA Tour and wants to destroy it. Mickelson already stated bluntly that LIV represents a “once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates.”

2. LIV collapses. IMO, this will only happen if LIV golfers can’t get their events counted in the OWGR or if the tournament format is so unappealing that no one cares.

3. Norman and Mickelson are pushed aside by the Saudis and they sue for peace.
 

Leon Trotsky

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Tommy F. has come out and said he is NOT going, which is great because I really like him. Cam Smith would change things a little, and maybe Hideki, but it still doesn't seem like a huge exodus with by far the best young stars staying with the PGA.

I wonder if the PGA and Euro tour would fully merge? If anything, seems like LIV would replace the Euro Tour, but not really affect the PGA that much.
 

LoweTek

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I'd be curious how much Feherty was making at NBC and how much he'll make doing LIV broadcasts. At 63 years old I dont blame him at all for cashing in and then retiring in a couple years. No issues with legacy or qualifying for majors, Ryder Cup, etc for him like the players.
I have always assumed he was kind of pissed with NBC/Golf Channel when his interview show was canceled. The show had some very good moments. He is a very capable and prepared interviewer. Amazing what some of his subjects spoke about. I hope he somehow finds another outlet for the talent.
 
I hope he somehow finds another outlet for the talent.
I'm guessing LIV isn't it.

(Man, Feherty has had a long fall in my estimation - from quite possibly the best golf commentator in the world during his time at CBS, to a pretty anonymous role not worthy of his talents at NBC, with a detour along the way where he became a pretty right-wing supporter of the American military, to now shilling for LIV. He's more than entitled to make his own decision and take the riches surely on offer to him, but he should have always been front and center on one of the major networks; I wonder how much if at all he regrets leaving CBS.)
 

Senator Donut

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The Masters and the ANWA have posted your lottery rejections results on their websites if you don’t want to wait for your email arrive. I’ll be waiting another year.
 

joe dokes

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I'm guessing LIV isn't it.

(Man, Feherty has had a long fall in my estimation - from quite possibly the best golf commentator in the world during his time at CBS, to a pretty anonymous role not worthy of his talents at NBC, with a detour along the way where he became a pretty right-wing supporter of the American military, to now shilling for LIV. He's more than entitled to make his own decision and take the riches surely on offer to him, but he should have always been front and center on one of the major networks; I wonder how much if at all he regrets leaving CBS.)
I don't think its a coincidence that Feherty's move was announced prior to this particular stop on the LIV show.
 

cshea

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Congrats! It is a bucket list item for me so I would totally do it for a Monday practice round. I feel like it's a when you win, you go or else you may never win again situation. Maybe those who have been would have more of an opinion.

I'm 0-15ish. Maybe next year!
 

petefungtorres

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I was selected...for 2 on Monday.

Curious to hear from others if Monday practice rounds are worth it.
I was there for the Tuesday practice round this year and it was totally worth it (even though thunderstorms shut everything down and we had to leave the grounds early). Just walking the grounds, hitting the merch shop, having a pimento cheese sandwich and spending the day on the course was an amazing experience. I flew down on Sunday, played 36 on Monday, Tuesday at ANGC, another round Wednesday morning and caught a flight out of Augusta and was home Wednesday night. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
 

jercra

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I was there for the Tuesday practice round this year and it was totally worth it (even though thunderstorms shut everything down and we had to leave the grounds early). Just walking the grounds, hitting the merch shop, having a pimento cheese sandwich and spending the day on the course was an amazing experience. I flew down on Sunday, played 36 on Monday, Tuesday at ANGC, another round Wednesday morning and caught a flight out of Augusta and was home Wednesday night. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
This is the right response and itinerary. Get a list of merch orders from friends and family before you go and expect to spend 2-3 hours of your time dealing with getting/storing/shipping/retrieving it.
 

johnmd20

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Scott Piercy, leading the 3M Open, has a blister on his foot. He is taking his shoe off after every shot, walking to his next shot with only one shoe on, and then putting it back on to hit.
Must be hurting him today because he's melting down in a truly phenomenal way. He was up by like 5-6 shots I think and it was only a few holes ago. And how he's going to walk off of 15 behind.