2022 PGA Tour

Dave Stapleton

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So any golfer who joins up and plays all 8 events is guaranteed a million bucks even if they finish dead last every week. No cuts, 48 players and 120,000 to last place.
 

ngruz25

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Second LIV Press conference (Na, Gooch, Piatt) ends in kerfuffle when the AP reporter tries to ask a question, but is cut off by LIV spokesman. Players file out slowly, awkwardly as LIV officials argue loudly with reporter about how he's not being "polite."

View: https://twitter.com/KVanValkenburg/status/1534150486642900992
I thought this was a joke, but the LIV brought in Ari Fleischer to act as their spokesperson for this press conference. Hilarious.
 

Senator Donut

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I thought this was a joke, but the LIV brought in Ari Fleischer to act as their spokesperson for this press conference. Hilarious.
I’m guessing his 9/11 tweet storm is going to be an in memoriam to the hijackers this year.

Fleischer in a still not deleted tweet said that MBS was spending billions to make sure the royal family wasn’t overthrown and is now gladly profiting off those billions.
View: https://twitter.com/kvanvalkenburg/status/1534121742414716929
 

joe dokes

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Absence of competition for some, guaranteed appearance fees for most. DJ will have to win a bunch of tournaments before his winnings surpass the $125M he gets just for showing up.
Yes. I was unclear. I was including appearance fees in my comment (even though I didn't mention them!)

I am curious whether we'll hear a steady drumbeat of "I want to compete against the best players" from the still-PGA Tour pros.
 

grsharky7

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Could this thing turn into the IRL/CART split that happened in Indy racing back in the 90's? If the Saudis have this kind of money to toss around it is going to be hard for a lot of these guys to say no. Who cares about coverage if you're making generational money just to sign on. As long as they have access to the majors, it would be hard to say no.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I'm not planning to watch this unless Rob signs up. @Deathofthebambino ?
No word right now, but I guess I'd be curious how this would affect someone like Rob landing a cushy club-pro job at a high end spot after he decides to call it a day. Will the PGA Tour go so far as to tell those lesser guys that if they decide to jump, they can no longer put themselves out as PGA Professionals in any way in the future. I'll probably see his brother next week, so I'll see if there is anything in the works.
 

TFP

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Will the PGA Tour go so far as to tell those lesser guys that if they decide to jump, they can no longer put themselves out as PGA Professionals in any way in the future.
The PGA Tour and PGA of America are two totally different organizations.
 

Deathofthebambino

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The PGA Tour and PGA of America are two totally different organizations.
Well, then there you go. Had no idea. So to answer the question, then yes, I would imagine Rob would consider it, but given the size of the fields, I'm not sure Norman and Co. need to drop that far down the world rankings to fill the field they want. If they start trotting out 120 player fields, with these same purses, even the Saudi's might be like, WTF? Then they'll cut Norman into little pieces, and place each one inside the cup of each hole during the tournaments.
 

bostonbeerbelly

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Playing in the SoSH fantasy golf for the past 10 years, I felt like I had a pretty good handle on random golfers in the world. I only recognized 19 names out of the 48, that does not seem good.
 

cshea

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USGA is, unsurprisingly and correctly, taking no action against the LIV players.

View: https://twitter.com/usopengolf/status/1534218636549931008?s=20&t=pwbw4V3qJ1soHJLXUWa2SA


As this thing gets off the ground, the big question will be the OWGR. For the LIV players, their only way into the majors is via the OWGR top 50. Will the strength of fields for the LIV events be strong enough where it's possible to accumulate enough points to reach and stay in the top 50? There are players who creep into the top 50 via the DP World Tour, but they usually don't last long.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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Playing in the SoSH fantasy golf for the past 10 years, I felt like I had a pretty good handle on random golfers in the world. I only recognized 19 names out of the 48, that does not seem good.
They have enough readily-recognized names and pro journeymen on the list to make for a very credible start. Other names, big and not-so-big, will certainly follow. But I'd argue that the most important name on that roster is David Puig. If the cream of the crop in D1 decides it's the way to go and they (a) think they can earn spots in or (b) don't care about the majors, the PGA has a real problem.
 

E5 Yaz

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Ratchanon Chantananuwat is a 15-year-old player from Thailand who already has won an Asian Tour event
 

voidfunkt

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Interesting comment from the USGA as they were careful to mention only 2022. Wonder if their "published field criteria" will be changed for 2023
That was my read. Beyond this year is a big question mark. Make the LIV folks play in the qualifiers if they want on.
 

E5 Yaz

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But I'd argue that the most important name on that roster is David Puig. If the cream of the crop in D1 decides it's the way to go and they (a) think they can earn spots in or (b) don't care about the majors, the PGA has a real problem.
I don't know if I necessarily buy this argument. The "best young golfers" on the PGA Tour might not be those who were the best collegiate golfers, but they'll still be the "best young golfers" on the PGA Tour and will gain more of a following -- at least for now -- than those playing a limited season on a tour without easy access to follow through media outlets.

Someone in the same category as a Puig would have to do something special on the LIVTour to create a curiosity factor. If they just end up being filler for LIV fields they'll make their money, but I don't see it influencing a majority of the top collegians.
 

Dave Stapleton

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Interesting comment from the USGA as they were careful to mention only 2022. Wonder if their "published field criteria" will be changed for 2023
I didn't read it that way. It is an "open" championship. You or I could qualify to play if we played well enough in a qualifier. To disqualify someone from playing simply because they play in some other tour would be contrary to the format. Additionally, I would it would seem to be most ripe for legal action if they allows members of some tours or groups to compete but not others.
 

TFP

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I didn't read it that way. It is an "open" championship. You or I could qualify to play if we played well enough in a qualifier. To disqualify someone from playing simply because they play in some other tour would be contrary to the format. Additionally, I would it would seem to be most ripe for legal action if they allows members of some tours or groups to compete but not others.
Correct, but they could remove their exemptions and force them to go through qualifying.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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I don't know if I necessarily buy this argument. The "best young golfers" on the PGA Tour might not be those who were the best collegiate golfers, but they'll still be the "best young golfers" on the PGA Tour and will gain more of a following -- at least for now -- than those playing a limited season on a tour without easy access to follow through media outlets.

Someone in the same category as a Puig would have to do something special on the LIVTour to create a curiosity factor. If they just end up being filler for LIV fields they'll make their money, but I don't see it influencing a majority of the top collegians.
That's fair, and I certainly overstated the issue, although I think the impact of a guy like Puig going to the LIV is asymmetrical on LIV v. PGAT. All the LIV has to do is establish itself as a viable alternative to the PGAT is bleed out enough talent over time to (a) make the question of "which tour is getting the better guys" hazy, and (b) let the money do the talking. The D1 guys would then at least see it as a legit option after college. Saudis can bankroll a loss leader forever, and at some point you're having a conversation about whether the young guys will opt for tradition v. a world tour with a fuckton of cash to boot, and the sponsorhip dollars might decide that LIV or hedging their bets is the way to go.

Appropos of nothing, really, I ran across this a few minutes ago. One of them is expecting a call from their bookie in the predawn hours, and the other is expecting Paulina to slip her hand under the waistband of his jockey shorts. Discuss.
52269
 

cornwalls@6

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I didn't read it that way. It is an "open" championship. You or I could qualify to play if we played well enough in a qualifier. To disqualify someone from playing simply because they play in some other tour would be contrary to the format. Additionally, I would it would seem to be most ripe for legal action if they allows members of some tours or groups to compete but not others.
I think this is right, and I suspect the US and British open will both honor their current exemptions until expiration, and continue with their open qualifying format, regardless of what tour anyone plays on. The Masters and the PGA are the 2 in the best position to exclude LIV players if they choose to. The PGA will almost certainly go that route, IMO. The Masters is the wildcard. The event has become the most anticipated and prestigious major by a considerable margin, and I can see exclusion from it giving players significant pause about switching to the LIV, if Augusta ever did adopt a hard line.
 

joe dokes

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I think this is right, and I suspect the US and British open will both honor their current exemptions until expiration, and continue with their open qualifying format, regardless of what tour anyone plays on. The Masters and the PGA are the 2 in the best position to exclude LIV players if they choose to. The PGA will almost certainly go that route, IMO. The Masters is the wildcard. The event has become the most anticipated and prestigious major by a considerable margin, and I can see exclusion from it giving players significant pause about switching to the LIV, if Augusta ever did adopt a hard line.
I doubt that a group of golfers who have already decided that easier money is the answer will give much of a shit about the Masters.
 

BaseballJones

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I doubt that a group of golfers who have already decided that easier money is the answer will give much of a shit about the Masters.
That would be too bad. But if more and more people join the LIV, and the Masters keeps those folks out, then the Masters field will be seriously diluted. Which would suck.

Very interesting situation here for sure. I don't care too much about the smaller events, and in reality the LIV will actually open more spots for other golfers to make the PGA tour, but still...in the bigger events I want to see the best players play.
 

Average Reds

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That would be too bad. But if more and more people join the LIV, and the Masters keeps those folks out, then the Masters field will be seriously diluted. Which would suck.

Very interesting situation here for sure. I don't care too much about the smaller events, and in reality the LIV will actually open more spots for other golfers to make the PGA tour, but still...in the bigger events I want to see the best players play.
Because of the limited size of the field and the fact that former champs take up a chunk of the spots, the Masters is already one of the weakest fields in all of golf. Which doesn’t seem to bother anyone, because that’s not what makes it special.

The only elite player in LIV is DJ. And he’s eligible for the Masters as a former champ. There isn’t going to be a case where the field is “seriously diluted.”
 

BaseballJones

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Because of the limited size of the field and the fact that former champs take up a chunk of the spots, the Masters is already one of the weakest fields in all of golf. Which doesn’t seem to bother anyone, because that’s not what makes it special.

The only elite player in LIV is DJ. And he’s eligible for the Masters as a former champ. There isn’t going to be a case where the field is “seriously diluted.”
Now Bryson might join. With the amount of money they're throwing around, it wouldn't shock me if more guys left the PGA tour for LIV.
 

Average Reds

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Now Bryson might join. With the amount of money they're throwing around, it wouldn't shock me if more guys left the PGA tour for LIV.
No tears on my part if Bryson is excluded. But I don’t think he would be since he’s exempt for a few more years based on his US Open win.

I really don’t think the LIV will have much of an impact on the Masters.
 

cornwalls@6

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I doubt that a group of golfers who have already decided that easier money is the answer will give much of a shit about the Masters.
Maybe so, but I do think winning a green jacket comes with both historical cache, and endorsement opportunities, that matter to a lot of these guys. By giving them pause, I’m thinking primarily of young star players who’ve never won one, and who might not have a pocket full of exemptions yet. Not necessarily guys like DJ, Phil, Sergio, etc. who either already have, or are on the verge of aging out of being serious, regular contenders in the majors. And who, in a couple of cases, have lifetime exemptions anyway.
 
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BaseballJones

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No tears on my part if Bryson is excluded. But I don’t think he would be since he’s exempt for a few more years based on his US Open win.

I really don’t think the LIV will have much of an impact on the Masters.
All depends on whether the Masters kicks those guys out of their tournament. I mean a Masters without DJ, Oosthuizen, Phil, Na, Sergio, Westwood, Poulter, and potentially Fowler and Bryson....those are some fairly big names too not have in the field. I mean, there's still plenty of talent available for Augusta if they boot these guys, but it wouldn't take that many more defectors before the Masters field looks significantly different.
 

TheGazelle

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It's the Masters. Whether or not Kevin Na and Oosty are there is irrelevant because again, it's the Masters. What would drive some discussion is if the Masters says former champions can't go, because that's so much a part of the tradition and history of the event. But again, I don't think that's going to move the needle much on the event. People will watch the Masters because it's the Masters.
 

TFP

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All depends on whether the Masters kicks those guys out of their tournament. I mean a Masters without DJ, Oosthuizen, Phil, Na, Sergio, Westwood, Poulter, and potentially Fowler and Bryson....those are some fairly big names too not have in the field.
2 of those guys didn’t even play in this year’s Masters.
 

kenneycb

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Are they? Over the last few years....

Sergio's had a bunch of cuts and a top 25
Oosty is mired in between 20 and 30 with a WD last year
Westwood hasn't done anything notable since his 2nd in 2016
Poulter hasn't done anything since 2016
Phil's been an also-ran as well
Nobody cares about Kevin Na but he's been the most successful with top 15s the last 3 years
Fowler is probably closer to losing his card than winning the Masters
Bryson and DJ are the only names but Bryson has been mediocre to bad in his last 5 trips to Augusta.

The Masters is losing out on a bunch of 20-40 place finishes. I don't think that will impact my viewing experience or enjoyment too much and I wouldn't have all the feels if any of them go on a run next year.
 

Dave Stapleton

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This is not the USFL. The PGA needs to take this seriously and not believe this is solved through a bullying approach.

Probably my biggest disappointment with the LIV development is the visability and benefit being given to Trump's properties in all this.
 

ngruz25

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Bryson cashing in makes tons of sense for him. He's a boom or bust golfer, and he's unsurprisingly injury prone. I think his recent wrist issues were a harbinger of things to come, and he knows it. The wrists are your last lever in the golf swing, and if that becomes a recurrent issue for him a la Michelle Wie, then his career is in jeopardy.

This all sucks for fans of the professional game. Two watered down tours, with one playing more like exhibition events, is bad for all of us. The majors should be fine for now, but some of us care about more than four events per year.
 

cshea

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This all sucks for fans of the professional game. Two watered down tours, with one playing more like exhibition events, is bad for all of us. The majors should be fine for now, but some of us care about more than four events per year.
Yeah, this is where I'm at. I realize I'm probably more die hard than most but if this turns the Travelers Championship into the John Deere, that sucks.
 

Average Reds

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This all sucks for fans of the professional game. Two watered down tours, with one playing more like exhibition events, is bad for all of us. The majors should be fine for now, but some of us care about more than four events per year.
At the end of the day, I’m going to guess that Phil Mickelson will look like a prophet.

(Excuse me, I just fainted after writing that.)

What I mean is that the Saudis aren’t going to continue to throw hundreds of millions at players forever unless the tour has a path to viability. And LIV will never be viable without the top players. (DJ, Bryson and Reed are a start, but not close to what they need.)

Phil’s early comments about using it as leverage against the PGA Tour will prove prophetic because it shows that they aren’t really committed to the LIV. They are looking for a negotiated peace that gives then more $$$ and less restriction on things like number of mandatory events in return for abandoning LIV after two or three seasons. Which is probably what happens.
 

jercra

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At the end of the day, I’m going to guess that Phil Mickelson will look like a prophet.

(Excuse me, I just fainted after writing that.)

What I mean is that the Saudis aren’t going to continue to throw hundreds of millions at players forever unless the tour has a path to viability. And LIV will never be viable without the top players. (DJ, Bryson and Reed are a start, but not close to what they need.)

Phil’s early comments about using it as leverage against the PGA Tour will prove prophetic because it shows that they aren’t really committed to the LIV. They are looking for a negotiated peace that gives then more $$$ and less restriction on things like number of mandatory events in return for abandoning LIV after two or three seasons. Which is probably what happens.
I wouldn't count on it. More money is already a done as part of the new TV deal. Purses and bonuses will continue to rise. Things like the number of required events are unlikely to change due to the new TV deal. There will be changes, but they will not be to let these guys back in when they decide they don't want to play every single event with Patrick Reed and Bryson. The rest of the TOUR players are NOT happy with these guys leaving and are not likely to forgive them anytime soon.
 

Average Reds

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I wouldn't count on it. More money is already a done as part of the new TV deal. Purses and bonuses will continue to rise. Things like the number of required events are unlikely to change due to the new TV deal. There will be changes, but they will not be to let these guys back in when they decide they don't want to play every single event with Patrick Reed and Bryson. The rest of the TOUR players are NOT happy with these guys leaving and are not likely to forgive them anytime soon.
I feel like that depends entirely on how badly (if at all) the LIV Tour hurts the PGA Tour.

If the impact is significant, the PGA Tour will do what it takes to regain their pre-eminence. Just like when they plagiarized Norman’s idea and came up with the WGC events 20+ years ago. (Norman’s fury at this is a big part of why we’re here right now.)

If the impact is minimal, they’ll still make the changes. But you’re right about how they won’t be welcoming for the players who left.
 

voidfunkt

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Im not worried about the quality of the PGA dropping until LIV starts pulling large numbers of younger players into it. Losing Reed is addition by subtraction. The others are all… meh.

The Tour has the momentum here but they need to figure out how to pull more eyeballs in and make more money to combat the Saudi blood money. They probably need to re-evaluate what “the field” looks like and how to get more money into the pockets of the players.