2022 Offseason

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
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Jul 15, 2005
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I’m not suggesting trading Pasta for a pu-pu platter, unless it was a ridiculous offer. Barzal and Larkin are two similar age/contract players. I don’t think Larkin is enough and I don’t think the Bruins would value Barzal enough.

Here’s a crazy idea whether or not Bergeron returns: Pasta for Sid. The trade is one for one.
If Crosby was 30 sure. He’s 35. I’m not trading a 26 year old franchise player for a 35 year old one. Plus why is Pittsburgh trading Crosby for one guaranteed year of Pastrnak? Wouldn’t they be better off gambling that he hits free agency? Or trade a futures pu pu platter for him at the deadline?
 

nolasoxfan

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I’m not suggesting trading Pasta for a pu-pu platter, unless it was a ridiculous offer. Barzal and Larkin are two similar age/contract players. I don’t think Larkin is enough and I don’t think the Bruins would value Barzal enough.

Here’s a crazy idea whether or not Bergeron returns: Pasta for Sid. The trade is one for one.
Sadly, the Bruins didn’t value Barzal enough in 2015. Sorry for bringing up that which should not be mentioned, but it was low hanging fruit.
 
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Ferm Sheller

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Mar 5, 2007
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I’m not suggesting trading Pasta for a pu-pu platter, unless it was a ridiculous offer. Barzal and Larkin are two similar age/contract players. I don’t think Larkin is enough and I don’t think the Bruins would value Barzal enough.

Here’s a crazy idea whether or not Bergeron returns: Pasta for Sid. The trade is one for one.
OMG, I need to lie down. Baby Pasta for Old Man Crosby? Yuck.
 

cshea

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I guess they liked the Lindholm trade. It only took them 5 years to actually fill that gap. And they're ignoring his awful free agency last season when he had all the cap space in the world and blew it on Ullmark, Foligno, Nosek and Haula.
 

burstnbloom

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Jul 12, 2005
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I don't think Neely says something like that in the press and Butch survives it, unfortunately. I think he's done a decent job with kind of a shitty job being done by his boss. I quibble with his incessant tinkering and selective accountability but he's a good coach and he's definitely not the problem. I never expected Sweeney to go, honestly. He's one of Neely's best friends and this isn't an organization that changes the front office very much. I'm 42 years old and the team has had 4 GM's in my life.

So - who coaches this team next year?
 

amfox1

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I agree. Sweeney will insist on coaching changes, Cassidy will refuse and he'll be fired. Probably waiting on Bergeron to make his decision first.
 

cshea

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I don't think Neely says something like that in the press and Butch survives it, unfortunately. I think he's done a decent job with kind of a shitty job being done by his boss. I quibble with his incessant tinkering and selective accountability but he's a good coach and he's definitely not the problem. I never expected Sweeney to go, honestly. He's one of Neely's best friends and this isn't an organization that changes the front office very much. I'm 42 years old and the team has had 4 GM's in my life.

So - who coaches this team next year?
Torts
 

Zososoxfan

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I guess they liked the Lindholm trade. It only took them 5 years to actually fill that gap. And they're ignoring his awful free agency last season when he had all the cap space in the world and blew it on Ullmark, Foligno, Nosek and Haula.
QFT. I can't like this post enough.
 

cshea

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I consider Cassidy a players coach. He'll get on them like any coach but he's not a screamer.

The biggest difference is the style. Cassidy like possession. They carry the puck in and out of the zone. Torts and Trotz are dump and chase and grind it out. It'd be a 180 for them. I think Cassidy's system is more sustainable long term than the latter. Particularly with the current personel.
 

RedOctober3829

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I consider Cassidy a players coach. He'll get on them like any coach but he's not a screamer.

The biggest difference is the style. Cassidy like possession. They carry the puck in and out of the zone. Torts and Trotz are dump and chase and grind it out. It'd be a 180 for them. I think Cassidy's system is more sustainable long term than the latter. Particularly with the current personel.
The knock on Cassidy (at least according to Fluto on the radio this week) is that he's very hard on young players because he holds them accountable for all of the little things. Said that was the main issue with DeBrusk is he had a very hard time handling being coached hard. Before this comment by Neely, I was thinking that Cassidy was safe because it's still a veteran-laden team and that the only way he'd get canned is if they decided to trade off veterans and start a rebuild and they'd bring in a coach who works well with young guys.
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
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Jul 15, 2005
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Holy fuck, this team is doomed. $14.8m on your 6 & 7D, 4LW, and backup G - but yeah Bruce is the problem.
Those were all awful contracts that he gave out, but I wonder if a mandate to “spend to the cap” every year to avoid the inevitable PR fallout if they sat on the cap space had anything to do with some of those deals. That would be another “Lucchino” move by Neely. Either way, it’s a horrible way to run a franchise.
 

cshea

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The knock on Cassidy (at least according to Fluto on the radio this week) is that he's very hard on young players because he holds them accountable for all of the little things. Said that was the main issue with DeBrusk is he had a very hard time handling being coached hard. Before this comment by Neely, I was thinking that Cassidy was safe because it's still a veteran-laden team and that the only way he'd get canned is if they decided to trade off veterans and start a rebuild and they'd bring in a coach who works well with young guys.
Maybe, but I assume most coaches are hands on with young players. Cassidy obviously butted heads with DeBrusk but every coach in every sport is going to butt heads with a player at some point. I haven't heard enough grumbling from players to make it seem like Cassidy is a hard ass or tough to play for.
 

RedOctober3829

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Maybe, but I assume most coaches are hands on with young players. Cassidy obviously butted heads with DeBrusk but every coach in every sport is going to butt heads with a player at some point. I haven't heard enough grumbling from players to make it seem like Cassidy is a hard ass or tough to play for.
I think he leaves the vets alone because they 1. have a track record of success in his system and 2. in Bergy and Marchand's case they play well in the system and they're superstars. In my head, I was thinking if they went the route of rebuilding you go get a coach that specializes in development of young guys. Kind of like what the Rangers did when they hired David Quinn out of BU. Then, when you're at the point of contending again you get a veteran coach.

I don't think Cassidy is a Torts-level of old school hard ass.
 

burstnbloom

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Jul 12, 2005
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You have to think about what Neely said about generating offense. I think they know puck possession is the only way to compete. I don't think a Torts/Trotz dump and chase coach is what they want. So who is out there? The name that scares me the most is Pete Deboer. He's got a similar system to Cassidy but I think he's awful with younger players and I don't think his attitude plays well with this team or market.

I'd prefer that they take a crack with one of the up and comers (Carbery, Velluci, Thompson, old friend jay Leach) than hire another re-tread. This organization is so parochial by nature, though. I expect they bring in someone Cam and Don are familiar with. Gross.
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
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You have to think about what Neely said about generating offense. I think they know puck possession is the only way to compete. I don't think a Torts/Trotz dump and chase coach is what they want. So who is out there? The name that scares me the most is Pete Deboer. He's got a similar system to Cassidy but I think he's awful with younger players and I don't think his attitude plays well with this team or market.

I'd prefer that they take a crack with one of the up and comers (Carbery, Velluci, Thompson, old friend jay Leach) than hire another re-tread. This organization is so parochial by nature, though. I expect they bring in someone Cam and Don are familiar with. Gross.
Cassidy wasn’t really a retread. Yeah, he was experienced, but not the first thought that comes to mind when I hear retread.
 

EL Jeffe

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I guess they liked the Lindholm trade. It only took them 5 years to actually fill that gap. And they're ignoring his awful free agency last season when he had all the cap space in the world and blew it on Ullmark, Foligno, Nosek and Haula.
I'm not as into the weeds with the Bruins, but did they really blow cap space on Haula and Ullmark though? Haula's 2 year / $4,750,000 contract to get 18g-26a | 44 point production seems like fine value at that price point. I'd also argue Ullmark's contract was in line with his performance. Had they gambled on the young goalies and it didn't work out, people would have been rightfully furious for wasting what could be the end of 37's career. I think Ullmark was a defensible signing and he generally played well.

That said, Nosek was disappointing, Forbort was bad, and Foligno was an abject disaster. I'm not a Sweeney fan, but I think some of the moves made sense. But he also makes some bizarre decisions that I'll never understand.
 

FL4WL3SS

my name sucks
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Jul 31, 2006
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I guess they liked the Lindholm trade. It only took them 5 years to actually fill that gap. And they're ignoring his awful free agency last season when he had all the cap space in the world and blew it on Ullmark, Foligno, Nosek and Haula.
I've said it the last two summers and kind of got roasted for it, but the writing has been on the wall for quite some time. The front office has continually underperformed and allowed the team to stagnate.

The only saving grace might be the influx of young talent that they have coming up.
 

burstnbloom

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Cassidy wasn’t really a retread. Yeah, he was experienced, but not the first thought that comes to mind when I hear retread.
Sorry - I should have been clearer. I just don't think Cam and Don are giving an upstart their first big chance if they move on from Cassidy.
 

Jordu

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Quotes taken from Fluto’s work in The Athletic today.

NEELY: “I think there’s times when players need to be more reactive out there instead of thinking about, ‘This is how we have to play.’ … I think a little different philosophy of when to dump pucks in, chase, go after it, try and grind it out down below the dots and get inside the dots, and try to create chances that way.”

SWEENEY: “I think it’s an imperative need for us to continue to foster creativity. Scoring is difficult in this league. Now, you have to have courage to go to the hard areas of the ice. That’s a hard one to convince anybody. If you don’t have that internal drive, that’s a really difficult process to try and create with a player. … But fostering creativity and the scoring potential in players and getting to that high side is imperative for us.”

They want to be more of a dump and chase team, and they want the reins loosened on the players. I suppose this explains why they thought Nick Ritchie a more valuable player than Danton Heinen.

The danger with dump and chase and “creative” forwards is that if you don’t have the personnel to play that game you’re going to be spending a lot of time chasing the score.

Maybe Cassidy and the front office can come to some middle ground about how the Bruins play. I hope so because I’m a Cassidy fan. I think he gets the most out of what he’s given and what his players are willing to do on the ice.
 

lexrageorge

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Sounds like an excuse to get more plodders to dump the puck in the offensive zone just so the opposing defensemen can retrieve the puck and carry or shoot it back out of the zone before a Bruins jersey gets anywhere near them. Further proof that Cassidy is not the problem with this team.
 

mcpickl

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Jul 23, 2007
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Sweeney is Neely's friend. You likely aren't getting rid of one without getting rid of the other. Old boys network dies hard.
Happy to get rid of both.

Neely has really escaped criticism in this town.

He must be a sweetheart of a guy to the local media.
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
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Jul 15, 2005
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Happy to get rid of both.

Neely has really escaped criticism in this town.

He must be a sweetheart of a guy to the local media.
Maybe Neely has escaped criticism in the media, but he’s definitely being roasted on social media and among fans.

It might take a couple years of a half empty building, but nobody has a job for life.
 

lexrageorge

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Maybe Neely has escaped criticism in the media, but he’s definitely being roasted on social media and among fans.

It might take a couple years of a half empty building, but nobody has a job for life.
Jacobs Sr kept Sinden around for the longest time, well past his expiration date. Millbury left on his own accord.

O'Connell was a total fuckup, and Jacobs Jr was starting to take a more active role in the team management as well. Chiarelli's days were numbered once Neely became president.

Bottom line is that unless and until fans start staying away in droves for multiple seasons in a row, Neely will be around. As long as the box office can continue to sell pricey tickets, Jacobs Jr (and Sr) are happy.
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,668
Gallows Hill
Jacobs Sr kept Sinden around for the longest time, well past his expiration date. Millbury left on his own accord.

O'Connell was a total fuckup, and Jacobs Jr was starting to take a more active role in the team management as well. Chiarelli's days were numbered once Neely became president.

Bottom line is that unless and until fans start staying away in droves for multiple seasons in a row, Neely will be around. As long as the box office can continue to sell pricey tickets, Jacobs Jr (and Sr) are happy.
We’re pretty much saying the same thing. I just think it won’t take that long for the building to be half empty if they’re not any good. Those season ticket renewals are really expensive these days.
 

FL4WL3SS

my name sucks
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Jul 31, 2006
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Quotes taken from Fluto’s work in The Athletic today.

NEELY: “I think there’s times when players need to be more reactive out there instead of thinking about, ‘This is how we have to play.’ … I think a little different philosophy of when to dump pucks in, chase, go after it, try and grind it out down below the dots and get inside the dots, and try to create chances that way.”

SWEENEY: “I think it’s an imperative need for us to continue to foster creativity. Scoring is difficult in this league. Now, you have to have courage to go to the hard areas of the ice. That’s a hard one to convince anybody. If you don’t have that internal drive, that’s a really difficult process to try and create with a player. … But fostering creativity and the scoring potential in players and getting to that high side is imperative for us.”

They want to be more of a dump and chase team, and they want the reins loosened on the players. I suppose this explains why they thought Nick Ritchie a more valuable player than Danton Heinen.

The danger with dump and chase and “creative” forwards is that if you don’t have the personnel to play that game you’re going to be spending a lot of time chasing the score.

Maybe Cassidy and the front office can come to some middle ground about how the Bruins play. I hope so because I’m a Cassidy fan. I think he gets the most out of what he’s given and what his players are willing to do on the ice.
This is spot on. I might not watch a game next year if this is the strategy and Cassidy gets dumped.
 

burstnbloom

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Quotes taken from Fluto’s work in The Athletic today.

NEELY: “I think there’s times when players need to be more reactive out there instead of thinking about, ‘This is how we have to play.’ … I think a little different philosophy of when to dump pucks in, chase, go after it, try and grind it out down below the dots and get inside the dots, and try to create chances that way.”

SWEENEY: “I think it’s an imperative need for us to continue to foster creativity. Scoring is difficult in this league. Now, you have to have courage to go to the hard areas of the ice. That’s a hard one to convince anybody. If you don’t have that internal drive, that’s a really difficult process to try and create with a player. … But fostering creativity and the scoring potential in players and getting to that high side is imperative for us.”

They want to be more of a dump and chase team, and they want the reins loosened on the players. I suppose this explains why they thought Nick Ritchie a more valuable player than Danton Heinen.

The danger with dump and chase and “creative” forwards is that if you don’t have the personnel to play that game you’re going to be spending a lot of time chasing the score.

Maybe Cassidy and the front office can come to some middle ground about how the Bruins play. I hope so because I’m a Cassidy fan. I think he gets the most out of what he’s given and what his players are willing to do on the ice.
ya, this is a good way to lose hockey games in 2022. Cool.
 

Dummy Hoy

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Jul 22, 2006
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I don't have a ton of time before my first class, but I'll try to revisit later...

Firstly, anyone who hears the Neely-Sweeney Gang talking about changing tactics and hears words like Dump, Chase, and Grind is right to be worried...we've seen too many chumps get too much money and ice time in recent seasons. But I think people are missing some of the nuance here.

From reading all of the Athletic articles, my takeaway on what the FO is saying:
  • We try to generate too much offense based on clean breakouts. If a team stops up our breakout we didn't show the ability to adjust our game.
  • Our zone entries were too predictable, especially on the powerplay, this caused too many turnovers
  • Given these factors the FO wants to see adjustments to switching up to more of a dump and retreive (which given their love of bangers falls in line with their ideals)
  • Offensively we don't offer enough of a varience in tactics, relying almost exclusively on cycling. When other teams drop 5 down low to stymie this, we don't adjust. Sweeney specifically mentions working high to low and getting the D core scoring more.
  • Butch is too tough on the kids and needs to trust them more even if they're not as sound defensively if he wants.
Now, I think a lot of this is coming out of the fact that we just lost to a very good Carolina team who
  • stiffled our breakouts with aggresive forecheck and pinching D
  • dig a great job on their blueline of denying clean zone entries
  • plays a very aggressive style where they want to get pucks in behind the other team and force turnovers
  • play a low-high game in the OZ where they like to get shots from the point, and use their forecheck to tip/collect rebounds/harass the other team back into turnovers.
I'm sure some of this is just philisophical, although it's hard not to imagine the line about Ronal Reagan...he always believed the last thing someone told him. I do wonder how much recency bias is in play here.

I don't think they're quite as neandrathalic as people are suggesting here, and I do think there is some merit to making different adjustments, but I don't think trying to emulate Carolina (who has spent a few years building a team around his philosphies) when you've got a completely different roster is the right move. If they want to change things and move to a different model then we probably need a new coach and some significant roster changes.
 

Frisbetarian

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Sweeney is Neely's friend. You likely aren't getting rid of one without getting rid of the other. Old boys network dies hard.
I've seen this quoted multiple times in this thread, and from my perspective (8 years with the team working closely with both) it is not accurate. Maybe @TheRealness has info I am unaware of, but if he does it's something I never observed.