2022 NFL Draft Game Thread-Day 2

twibnotes

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I think your “yet” is important bc as he has shown throughout his tenure the draft isn’t the end of the offseason.
for sure…but getting a guy who can fly is harder as the draft proceeds. I fantasized about us getting a guy like Dax hill in the second (he’s gone). Can we get a chenal at lb in the third?
 

Average Game James

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You said Mac dropping to them was a surprise. This was to highlight the point that bb sucks at drafting in the first couple rounds. How was I supposed to interpret your argument? Like it was a surprise and bb got lucky. Is that not how it reads?
My point is that Bill's hits in the early rounds have pretty consistently been with players widely considered first round talents. The point isn't that he got "lucky" with Mac or Barmore, it's that nobody looked at those as off the wall picks at the time, unlike a lot of the team's 1st and 2nd round busts that were considered by many to be reaches.
 

Dollar

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I'm pretty sure that I'd have much less trust in BB's drafting ability if he picked players right where the 'consensus big boards' and Mel Kipers of the world had players ranked.
 

Cellar-Door

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We discussed it some pre-draft, 2nd or 3rd made sense for a WR because while it's not a need this year, that's a nice spot to find a guy who might need some time. Agholor and Meyers are in the last years of their deals, Bourne and Parker have 2 years, and they could get expensive quick, 4 years at cheap money is valuable.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm pretty sure that I'd have much less trust in BB's drafting ability if he picked players right where the 'consensus big boards' and Mel Kipers of the world had players ranked.
We'd also probably end up with worse teams though, because:
1. Those boards are mostly made by people who don't know anywhere near as much about football as our scouts
2. THose boards don't take into account scheme/fit, which is WAY more important than talent usually.
 

RetractableRoof

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I mean, whatever you think of the overall draft record, over the past decade Bill's track record in rounds 1 & 2 is pretty poor and with the exception of Dugger his hits in the early rounds have really fallen more in-line with broader consensus. Mac dropping to 15 was a surprise, Barmore was considered a potential first rounder, and I think Wynn was largely thought to be a 1st round talent as well. It would be one thing to criticize if they were regularly hitting on these perceived reaches in rounds 1 & 2, but they really haven't. The Pats have succeeded in spite of their inability to get a lot of talent near the top of the draft.
  • A reasonable response to some portion of this argument is that the teams performance consistently puts them in a position where they are not drafting at the TOP of the first round where other teams are consistently getting talent from. When he has a high draft pick he does tend to pick well, where it gets fuzzy is when he is picking... um... 32nd? Is there a metric that divides first round success by the position the pick was made in? That might lend some insight into his first round success. Hard to be the Jaguars and mess up this years first round pick, right?
  • He also tends to move down in drafts spending less draft assets in the first round where players are over valued and stockpile more mid round picks where he can get more a) get more value and b) get more bites at the apple. He picks his spots and pays a premium for players when they are worth it, but overall his strategy is to maximize his mid-round resources.
  • One could also reasonable argue that he has patience as a GM, the same way he does as a coach. He read the room wrt to Jones, didn't panic, and waited for him to fall - unwilling to pay a premium and move up. You want to characterize that as a surprise, perhaps we can say he is good at what he does? If he had traded an asset to get to 10 and drafted Jones would you have criticized him for that as well? (It was an overpay! he would have been there at 15!!!) Your post wants to discount success in the draft as a surprise or luck or the same as consensus, and then criticize what he has missed. Seems to be having both ends of the argument.

He's not perfect, he's had some spectacular misses (especially at WR), he's got an affinity for certain positions and schools, he commonly reaches for players and positions he values... and in spite of those warts he's won a Superbowl or two. Constructive criticism is healthy. Being first in line to scream that he's lost it (like some are trying to do) is lame.
 

j44thor

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I'm far more bullish on Ty than Strange
Betting on a BB 2nd rd WR vs. a 1st rd OL?
Not to mention if Ty succeeds he'll be a unicorn, the list of 6'3" 185wrs that make it is insanely small.
 

67YAZ

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The Bears also need some big nasties on both sides of the line, but don’t pick again until 148. Their new GM Poles came over from KC, so you know he’s comfortable dealing with the Pats. Could be a candidate to trade a 2023 pick to up to 94.
 

wibi

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Love the second OT Seattle took. Got to watch him a couple of times this year and dude has some skills
 

Average Game James

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  • A reasonable response to some portion of this argument is that the teams performance consistently puts them in a position where they are not drafting at the TOP of the first round where other teams are consistently getting talent from. When he has a high draft pick he does tend to pick well, where it gets fuzzy is when he is picking... um... 32nd? Is there a metric that divides first round success by the position the pick was made in? That might lend some insight into his first round success. Hard to be the Jaguars and mess up this years first round pick, right?
  • He also tends to move down in drafts spending less draft assets in the first round where players are over valued and stockpile more mid round picks where he can get more a) get more value and b) get more bites at the apple. He picks his spots and pays a premium for players when they are worth it, but overall his strategy is to maximize his mid-round resources.
  • One could also reasonable argue that he has patience as a GM, the same way he does as a coach. He read the room wrt to Jones, didn't panic, and waited for him to fall - unwilling to pay a premium and move up. You want to characterize that as a surprise, perhaps we can say he is good at what he does? If he had traded an asset to get to 10 and drafted Jones would you have criticized him for that as well? (It was an overpay! he would have been there at 15!!!) Your post wants to discount success in the draft as a surprise or luck or the same as consensus, and then criticize what he has missed. Seems to be having both ends of the argument.

He's not perfect, he's had some spectacular misses (especially at WR), he's got an affinity for certain positions and schools, he commonly reaches for players and positions he values... and in spite of those warts he's won a Superbowl or two. Constructive criticism is healthy. Being first in line to scream that he's lost it (like some are trying to do) is lame.
I'm not remotely trying to scream he's lost it or say he's a terrible drafter. All I'm saying is the track record in rounds 1 & 2 the past ~decade has not been strong with a limited hit rate on his "Wait? Who?" picks and as a result it's reasonable to question what he's doing in this draft.
 

Average Game James

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I'm going to laugh when we end up getting Jones and Chenal in the 3rd, because I would have been completely happy if you told me the Pats picked Jones, Chenal, Strange, and Taylor in that order...
 

RetractableRoof

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By the way, those who are high on Dean, just a quick question. One of the most dynamic players in the league for a short while was Dat Nguyen of the Cowboys. Ball of energy, who just destroyed his body trying to stay on the field. Would I be wrong to not want Dean for similar reasons given his position?
 

RetractableRoof

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I'm not remotely trying to scream he's lost it or say he's a terrible drafter. All I'm saying is the track record in rounds 1 & 2 the past ~decade has not been strong with a limited hit rate on his "Wait? Who?" picks and as a result it's reasonable to question what he's doing in this draft.
Bad wording on my part - but I tried to answer your specific comments, and then generalized regarding those that were hinting at him have lost it. I used "some" were saying it, I should have clarified that I didn't mean you. Sorry if it looked like my answering your post was lumping you in the "lost it" crowd.
 

SoxinSeattle

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Here
I don’t really understand how thats comparable to what I said at all…

I noticed you highlighted the bad part. What I said was “with all of the information we have available to us” meaning going off of consensus big boards and draft analysts. All of them have uniformly said this was a reach. Now you may not care what they think, but again, that’s the info that we as fans have to go on.

…I also said “In Bill We Trust” too but you skipped over that part
I was poorly trying to say that no one knows anything so how could it possibly be "bad" ten minutes after the selection? Bad compared to what talking heads say? Bad because we've never heard of him? I say it's a great pick cause the Pat's think so and overall they do a pretty good job.
 

Cellar-Door

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By the way, those who are high on Dean, just a quick question. One of the most dynamic players in the league for a short while was Dat Nguyen of the Cowboys. Ball of energy, who just destroyed his body trying to stay on the field. Would I be wrong to not want Dean for similar reasons given his position?
Considering he's already hurt... no.

Also he's tiny and won't play behind the most dominant D-Line in the league by a wide margin with huge fast LBs around him, so there are reasons to wonder if he just gets obliterated and isn't even good at the next level. He's falling for a reason and it isn't all medical
 

jsinger121

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Baltimore got 3 day 1 starters and a guy that will be a starter after redshirting. Pretty incredible.