2022 NBA Playoffs Gamethread

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Below are some clips of PHO hunting Doncic.

PHO apparently has data "that shows how much players wear down when they reach a certain amount of dribbles per game." So if Luka is going to handle so much of the load offensively, why not make him work on the other end? It takes a lot to play both ends of the court. https://arizonasports.com/story/3130311/phoenix-suns-ruthlessly-attack-luka-doncic-blow-mavericks-out-in-4th/

View: https://twitter.com/HalfCourtHoops/status/1522062567010713602?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1522062567010713602%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Farizonasports.com%2Fstory%2F3130311%2Fphoenix-suns-ruthlessly-attack-luka-doncic-blow-mavericks-out-in-4th%2F
 

lovegtm

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Below are some clips of PHO hunting Doncic.

PHO apparently has data "that shows how much players wear down when they reach a certain amount of dribbles per game." So if Luka is going to handle so much of the load offensively, why not make him work on the other end? It takes a lot to play both ends of the court. https://arizonasports.com/story/3130311/phoenix-suns-ruthlessly-attack-luka-doncic-blow-mavericks-out-in-4th/

View: https://twitter.com/HalfCourtHoops/status/1522062567010713602?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1522062567010713602%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Farizonasports.com%2Fstory%2F3130311%2Fphoenix-suns-ruthlessly-attack-luka-doncic-blow-mavericks-out-in-4th%2F
I don't want to turn every Luka discussion into a referendum on his rank vs. Tatum (actually who am I kidding, I do), but I'd note that one of his biggest perceived strengths vs. Tatum is the extra assists he piles up. However, a percentage of those are the freebie assists that you get from running point fulltime (passes that aren't a huge value-add that come simply from you entering the ball to a guy). Tatum doesn't have as many of those, because the Celtics use him less often as the guy bringing it up/initial initiator, which in turn lets him expend some more energy on both ends.

Also, the defensive effort and technique from Luka in these clips is atrocious. This is the very definition of giving it all back on the other end. A big part of being a superstar is...not doing that.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Also, the defensive effort and technique from Luka in these clips is atrocious. This is the very definition of giving it all back on the other end. A big part of being a superstar is...not doing that.
Luka's a great player and I don't do ranks but I'm glad that the team I'm rooting for has two superstar/superstar-ish players that play both ends of the court. JB and JT might have some minor faults defensively but they can and do guard almost everyone credibly and they generally play hard on defense at this stage of their career. It was frustrating enough watching KW or KI for the years they were here.

I mean no team goes into a series making JT or JB their "pigeon" (to use PHO's terms).
 

DavidTai

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PHO apparently has data "that shows how much players wear down when they reach a certain amount of dribbles per game." So if Luka is going to handle so much of the load offensively, why not make him work on the other end? It takes a lot to play both ends of the court.
Seems like this could/was used against Giannis in game 2. Over the course of a game, if he has to be constantly initiating the offense and charging, and playing defense, he's going to burn out in the fourth, and this seems like they kept forcing him to move around in game 2, leaving him less energy in the fourth to play offense. Maybe seemingly counterintuitive, but let him keep bringing the ball up the court, just don't leave him a 100 percent clear path to the basket.
 

Jimbodandy

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Seems like this could/was used against Giannis in game 2. Over the course of a game, if he has to be constantly initiating the offense and charging, and playing defense, he's going to burn out in the fourth, and this seems like they kept forcing him to move around in game 2, leaving him less energy in the fourth to play offense. Maybe seemingly counterintuitive, but let him keep bringing the ball up the court, just don't leave him a 100 percent clear path to the basket.
It's true for everyone on earth except Giannis. Guy doesn't fucking wear down or stop coming.
 

JCizzle

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I don't want to turn every Luka discussion into a referendum on his rank vs. Tatum (actually who am I kidding, I do), but I'd note that one of his biggest perceived strengths vs. Tatum is the extra assists he piles up. However, a percentage of those are the freebie assists that you get from running point fulltime (passes that aren't a huge value-add that come simply from you entering the ball to a guy). Tatum doesn't have as many of those, because the Celtics use him less often as the guy bringing it up/initial initiator, which in turn lets him expend some more energy on both ends.

Also, the defensive effort and technique from Luka in these clips is atrocious. This is the very definition of giving it all back on the other end. A big part of being a superstar is...not doing that.
This is why it's ridiculous for Luka to be a shoe-in MVP candidate. Guys like Tatum are substantially better on defense, so a smaller gap on offense shouldn't be given the weight it is by voters. Let alone Giannis. I guess it's basically shouting into the wind though.
 

ManicCompression

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This is why it's ridiculous for Luka to be a shoe-in MVP candidate. Guys like Tatum are substantially better on defense, so a smaller gap on offense shouldn't be given the weight it is by voters. Let alone Giannis. I guess it's basically shouting into the wind though.
But this wasn't an issue in the regular season - Dallas had a really good defense. The playoffs are just a totally different animal because teams scout, gameplan, and then hunt weaknesses.

I know people want regular season awards to reflect postseason success, but until that's actually codified into the parameters, guys like Gobert will be in the DPOY conversation because they offer a ton of defensive value over 82 games and guys like Luka will be in the MVP conversation because they carry teams to winning records.
 

Jimbodandy

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This is why it's ridiculous for Luka to be a shoe-in MVP candidate. Guys like Tatum are substantially better on defense, so a smaller gap on offense shouldn't be given the weight it is by voters. Let alone Giannis. I guess it's basically shouting into the wind though.
Depending on how you evaluate offense, it's not necessarily a given that Luka is even better than Tatum right now on offense alone.
 

Ed Hillel

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Think maybe we can revisit that Tatum versus Luca discussion now. It’s really not close imo, defense matters.

Oh, we kind of are. Well done.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Seems like this could/was used against Giannis in game 2. Over the course of a game, if he has to be constantly initiating the offense and charging, and playing defense, he's going to burn out in the fourth, and this seems like they kept forcing him to move around in game 2, leaving him less energy in the fourth to play offense. Maybe seemingly counterintuitive, but let him keep bringing the ball up the court, just don't leave him a 100 percent clear path to the basket.
Agree that it could be used against Giannis. Making him work on both ends is going to leave less energy at the end.
He was visibly exhausted in the 4Q of game 2, but I didn't notice it impact him at all.
I thought Giannis played very, well, passive in the 1H. He threw up a lot of jump shots and wasn't really attacking as much. I also think Giannis decided to play differently in the 2H and was visibly exhausted (remember the delay of game he took?).

Maybe he's just super human, not super super human.
 

JCizzle

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Agree that it could be used against Giannis. Making him work on both ends is going to leave less energy at the end.

I thought Giannis played very, well, passive in the 1H. He threw up a lot of jump shots and wasn't really attacking as much. I also think Giannis decided to play differently in the 2H and was visibly exhausted (remember the delay of game he took?).

Maybe he's just super human, not super super human.
One might even call him a 'freak', maybe? :cool:
 

benhogan

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Agree that it could be used against Giannis. Making him work on both ends is going to leave less energy at the end.

I thought Giannis played very, well, passive in the 1H. He threw up a lot of jump shots and wasn't really attacking as much. I also think Giannis decided to play differently in the 2H and was visibly exhausted (remember the delay of game he took?).

Maybe he's just super human, not super super human.
9 of GA's 12 assists in Game 1 were step-in 3pt makes for MIL.

Game 2 the Horford/Grant combo not only wore Giannis down to a NUB but most importantly they handled him on an island, which closed off the outlet passes to the perimeter

Karalis/Westerholm discussed this extensively on today's Locked-On podcast

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIXsQB9FzCQ
 

HomeRunBaker

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He was visibly exhausted in the 4Q of game 2, but I didn't notice it impact him at all.
There have been a lot of lead guys who have been ready to keel over in the 4Q lstely. Doncic, Giannis, Chris Paul could barely breath at the end of the 2Q one game after Alvarado blanketed him and last game he asked out with just under 6 min to go while gasping for air.
 

jon abbey

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There have been a lot of lead guys who have been ready to keel over in the 4Q lstely. Doncic, Giannis, Chris Paul could barely breath at the end of the 2Q one game after Alvarado blanketed him and last game he asked out with just under 6 min to go while gasping for air.
Heh, Paul had just scored 14 points in the previous six minutes, pretty much singlehandedly breaking open the game (89-83 PHX to 110-93 PHX).
 

HomeRunBaker

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Heh, Paul had just scored 14 points in the previous six minutes, pretty much singlehandedly breaking open the game (89-83 PHX to 110-93 PHX).
Oh I’m not saying anything except that the effort and intensity level of these playoffs is so much greater than the regular season maybe more than I’ve seen in the past. Teams seem to be relying on their stars more than ever…..even the Sixers ran nearly every possession through Harden in the 1H while Maxey, who had the better matchup, was relegated to watching until Harden sat in the late 3Q.
 

Kliq

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Going to need more than some likes on Twitter to take a Code Red on hardwood floor.
 

Gash Prex

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First to 90 wins? There is a legit chance both teams are under 90 at the end of this game
 

PedroKsBambino

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Glad Sixers looking good here---want the winner of this series to come out with some wear-and-tear
 

Kliq

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Miami's two best players are non-shooters from three and in turn they have to play some bad defensive players to get some shooting. I feel like Milwaukee or Boston totally works this team l.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Miami's two best players are non-shooters from three and in turn they have to play some bad defensive players to get some shooting. I feel like Milwaukee or Boston totally works this team l.
Do you feel the same about the 76ers?
 

Kliq

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Do you feel the same about the 76ers?
Philadelphia has more top end talent than Miami which is more threatening in the playoffs. I think Harden would be toast against the Celtics, and historically Horford has been very good against Embiid and the Celtics have additional bodies to throw at him. I also don't think Philly's supporting cast is very good outside of Harris and Maxey. Players like Niang, Milton, Thybulle, Korkmaz, Reed, etc. aren't scaring anyone in the playoffs.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Philadelphia has more top end talent than Miami which is more threatening in the playoffs. I think Harden would be toast against the Celtics, and historically Horford has been very good against Embiid and the Celtics have additional bodies to throw at him. I also don't think Philly's supporting cast is very good outside of Harris and Maxey. Players like Niang, Milton, Thybulle, Korkmaz, Reed, etc. aren't scaring anyone in the playoffs.
Tack on the coaching advantage which really comes into play in the postseason. Spro can run circles around this version of Doc who seems to have lost his fastball a decade ago.
 

Cellar-Door

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Not even halfway through the 3rd and CP3 is one short of his CAREER HIGH in turnovers... what a weird game
 

Kliq

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Tack on the coaching advantage which really comes into play in the postseason. Spro can run circles around this version of Doc who seems to have lost his fastball a decade ago.
Watching the Miami team today and I just don't know how they would score against the Celtics. They have limited spacing options, Lowry looks bad, Butler can have some big games but also some quiet ones. They really need their role players to hit a lot of threes, and for Herro to jack up a lot of shots off the bench and hope they go in, and for Oladipo to be consistent. They play really good defense and won't make a lot of mistakes, so every game can be a fight, but I just see a pretty weak offensive team in the playoffs. They were a complete disaster tonight; Jimmy Butler was shooting set-shots from three because they had NOTHING going at that end.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Watching the Miami team today and I just don't know how they would score against the Celtics. They have limited spacing options, Lowry looks bad, Butler can have some big games but also some quiet ones. They really need their role players to hit a lot of threes, and for Herro to jack up a lot of shots off the bench and hope they go in, and for Oladipo to be consistent. They play really good defense and won't make a lot of mistakes, so every game can be a fight, but I just see a pretty weak offensive team in the playoffs. They were a complete disaster tonight; Jimmy Butler was shooting set-shots from three because they had NOTHING going at that end.
Butler living at the line, maybe? I can't see the working for 4 wins though.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Watching the Miami team today and I just don't know how they would score against the Celtics. They have limited spacing options, Lowry looks bad, Butler can have some big games but also some quiet ones. They really need their role players to hit a lot of threes, and for Herro to jack up a lot of shots off the bench and hope they go in, and for Oladipo to be consistent. They play really good defense and won't make a lot of mistakes, so every game can be a fight, but I just see a pretty weak offensive team in the playoffs. They were a complete disaster tonight; Jimmy Butler was shooting set-shots from three because they had NOTHING going at that end.
I don’t disagree. Both teams will struggle to score if this is the matchup. May not have a game reach 200. Honestly, the only bad matchup for us I feel is Milwaukee especially when they are at full strength.
 

Kliq

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I don’t disagree. Both teams will struggle to score if this is the matchup. May not have a game reach 200. Honestly, the only bad matchup for us I feel is Milwaukee especially when they are at full strength.
A team that has been this good defensively really has no bad matchups; even Milwaukee, Phoenix or Golden State feel like beatable squads the way Boston has played over the past few months.

With Miami; Bam is very intimidating defensively, but I think Brown/Tatum getting switched onto Herro gets him played right off the floor--and without Herro Miami is really limited on offense. If Harden was his old self, I think he'd play Herro off the floor this series, but he is so much slower know that it hasn't been that big of an issue for Miami.
 

m0ckduck

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Not even halfway through the 3rd and CP3 is one short of his CAREER HIGH in turnovers... what a weird game
Having not watched the game, it's a really weird boxscore. Mavs were outshot from 2PT range (marginally), from 3 (significantly), and from the line. They were also out-rebounded— basically a wash on the offensive glass. But in spite of all that, they won by somehow taking 25 more shots than PHX, thanks to turnover advantage (17-8), 12 steals and 4 blocks. File under 'doesn't seem sustainable'.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Having not watched the game, it's a really weird boxscore. Mavs were outshot from 2PT range (marginally), from 3 (significantly), and from the line. They were also out-rebounded— basically a wash on the offensive glass. But in spite of all that, they won by somehow taking 25 more shots than PHX, thanks to turnover advantage (17-8), 12 steals and 4 blocks. File under 'doesn't seem sustainable'.
Probably the only game with more variance than the early afternoon start times are Game 3 of a playoff series when the favored team is up 2-0. Like all sorts of weird stuff is going on…..the crowd is as loud at the opening tap as they’ve been all year, the home team reacts to it as if it’s their Super Bowl and the visiting (and likely up 2-0) team often seem to be caught off guard as they don’t have nearly the sense of urgency as the home team.

Game 4 is a great set up for Phoenix to clean up a few things and come out ready to go.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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A team that has been this good defensively really has no bad matchups; even Milwaukee, Phoenix or Golden State feel like beatable squads the way Boston has played over the past few months.

With Miami; Bam is very intimidating defensively, but I think Brown/Tatum getting switched onto Herro gets him played right off the floor--and without Herro Miami is really limited on offense. If Harden was his old self, I think he'd play Herro off the floor this series, but he is so much slower know that it hasn't been that big of an issue for Miami.
I always think that teams should be able to play Herro off the floor but it never happens. And in previous series, Bam has killed the Cs and given MIA a lot of the offense it needs against BOs.

I don't think you are wrong but I think MIA has played the Cs pretty tough.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I always think that teams should be able to play Herro off the floor but it never happens. And in previous series, Bam has killed the Cs and given MIA a lot of the offense it needs against BOs.

I don't think you are wrong but I think MIA has played the Cs pretty tough.
I think there are a few reasons why teams don’t. First off, he has spectacular defenders around him now that he’s no longer on the floor with some combination of Duncan and Dragic. Second, coaching is mostly about defensive schemes and Spoelstra is the best. Third, I feel it’s often overstated how bad he is/was on that end of the floor……he isn’t Duncan-bad or Isaiah-bad.
 

Jimbodandy

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I think there are a few reasons why teams don’t. First off, he has spectacular defenders around him now that he’s no longer on the floor with some combination of Duncan and Dragic. Second, coaching is mostly about defensive schemes and Spoelstra is the best. Third, I feel it’s often overstated how bad he is/was on that end of the floor……he isn’t Duncan-bad or Isaiah-bad.
Darko has him in a very large group of crappy defenders at around -1. Not terrible but unquestionably bad, like top-100 bad.
 

ElUno20

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Almost 5 seconds and a timeout left, why did smart miss the free throw on purpose?