2022 Dolphins: Our coach is cooler than yours

djbayko

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I mean, back spasms can be rather unpredictable…
I know Tua’s excuse was that he had a back issue, but I see many hear specifically saying back spasm. Was back spasm the actual excuse used? Because as someone who has had chronic back spasm issues, limply flopping to the ground is the exact opposite response you would expect from a human. Spasms are your body’s way of trying to protect your spine from further injury. They make you want to stand stiff as a board (or otherwise feel intense pain).

This conversation is somewhat ridiculous because we all know what we saw on film that Sunday - some form of momentary neurological failure. But I just wanted to add this point about back spasms being a complete nonsense answer.
 

YTF

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Blaming McDaniel for this feels really misguided. We've all seen videos of BB where a medical staff member or positional coach approaches him before a game and simply informs him, "player X can't go." Theres no discussion. Hes told if a player can or can not play. Its his job to react accordingly.

If a medical professional told McDaniel "Tua is good to play on Thursday", it isn't his job to question that. Do Your Job. If McDaniel is put in a situation where he has to question the opinion of a medical professional, then thats a failure of the organization by providing the players with a shitty doctor.

Did McDaniel know Tua got a concussion on Sunday? Probably. Was McDaniel told that Tua was good to play on Thursday? Most likely. Any failure in that process was with the medical professionals, not McDaniel.
IF (and if is doing a lot of heavy lifting throughout this thread) the head coach knew of a concussion and chose to play Tua just 4 days later then McDaniel is an important part of that failed process.
 

sodenj5

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IF (and if is doing a lot of heavy lifting throughout this thread) the head coach knew of a concussion and chose to play Tua just 4 days later then McDaniel is an important part of that failed process.
IF Mike McDaniel knew that Tua had a concussion, ie someone on the staff or the neurologist told him he did, and he chose to allow Tua back into the game and to play Thursday, he deserves to be fired.

That doesn’t appear to be the case, but if the investigation turns up that Tua was diagnosed with a concussion and a team doctor or McDaniel himself allowed Tua to continue, everyone involved in that process should be fired.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah, if you need to be mandated into including "gross motor instability" in your decision-making criteria, you're not vaguely serious about protecting players.
It already is, in fact it's one of the "no-go" criteria, HOWEVER, it has to be determined by the idependent neurologist and team physician to be nuerologically caused. So my guess is they want to tighten that up, and say basically, it's an automatic no-go unless there is clear evidence of an orthopedic cause. So instead of a determination of whether it is a no-go, instead it would be assumed as a no-go barring clear evidence to the contrary.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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It already is, in fact it's one of the "no-go" criteria, HOWEVER, it has to be determined by the idependent neurologist and team physician to be nuerologically caused. So my guess is they want to tighten that up, and say basically, it's an automatic no-go unless there is clear evidence of an orthopedic cause. So instead of a determination of whether it is a no-go, instead it would be assumed as a no-go barring clear evidence to the contrary.
That would certainly make more sense, but we should all start setting aside copays for @DaveRoberts'Shoes's lessons on the dark arts of diagnosing back pain.
 

Shelterdog

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Imaging sometimes is a part of
Screwup or scapegoat, maybe we will never know for sure. But not surprised at all he/she was fired.

To be clear, my previous posts
If you watch the Judy Battista video tweet with
If you watch the Judy Battista video tweet with Dr. Sills (NFL Chiel Medical Officer) that was posted earlier (#485), you will hear him directly contradict your statement about the team MD getting final say. Dr. Sills said that each of the physicians (neuro + team doc) examine the player independently and both must clear him before he is allowed to return to play. Additionally, he said that Tua was examined everyday after last Sunday until the the game on Thursday to maintain his playing status. So, there is something amiss here. If the written policy you quoted states the team doc has final say but the NFL Chief Medical Officer says otherwise then there seems to be confusion in how the protocol is being implemented. Personally, I'm not sure how anyone can watch that video from last Sunday and think that Tua was not at least mildly concussed. I think it's possible that he might have recovered quickly enough to pass the evaluation in the locker room and subsequent assessments during the week. Dr. Sills was emphatic about thouroughly investigating every aspect of this case, but after all, this is the NFL so who knows how deeply they want to look.
to follow up on this Sills spoke to Tom Pelisaro and said we’ll yes the team doctor actually makes the call but the team doctor and the neurologist work together and no team doctor would disagree with the neuro. Which raises a pretty big question as to why the chief medical officer would misrepresent the policy to Batista in a way that inaccurately suggested the UNC has independent ability to pull a player. And while not speaking as to the Tua situation they Are revisiing the policy to say if there is gross motor instability that the player is automatically deemed tonhave had a concussion which closes the “loophole”fromMiami, and the new policy is “when in doubt get them out.”

This all suggests to me that they know what the result of the incestiGtion is going to be and that it will be that the protocol was filed but they find is that the decided not to diagnose a concussion for Tua because they weren’t sure whether a concussion or a back injury caused the stumble and Tua had no other symptoms (and that that “loophole” has no been closed so leave the nfl alone)
 

Jimbodandy

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No one said they’re infallible. I said they’re more qualified than Mike McDaniel to make a medical decision.
Nobody is saying that McDaniel or Pete Carroll or player personnel or ownership or a fan is more qualified to make a medical decision than a doctor. Nobody. Please stop saying that.

Some of us are saying that the coach can add an abundance of caution and not play someone who was "cleared" but maybe should sit this one out.

Basically the argument against the premise that the team fucked up here is that nobody in charge saw Tua stumbling around like a drunken sailor (highly unlikely) OR they didn't care whether he had a concussion (bingo). I think that the horse has finally left the barn on the whole "are we suuuuure that he had TBI on Sunday" line of questioning. They played him because they could, and they could because the system to catch brain injuries has massive loopholes and plausible deniability baked into it.
 

Harry Hooper

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Oh God, we hate people who think like you. More substantively, it would be difficult to do so credibly. I don't use imPACT or whatever the league might be using, but most of these things are sufficiently sensitive (and in some cases include specific validity indicators) to catch someone trying to game the test. When individual differences and test norms for something like measured response times vary in terms of msecs, it's difficult to pull off.

Some folklore may be involved, but at least some players seem to have a different take:

The upperclassmen indoctrinated freshmen with the secret trick to staying on the field after a dizzying collision. The summer before each season, we would all take a test that measured our memory and concentration — repeating a string of words in reverse order, for example. If anyone suffered a possible head injury in a game, we’d have to take the test again on the sideline. If our score fell significantly below the mark they’d set in the summer, it was a sign we probably had a concussion.

So my savviest teammates intentionally tanked their baseline score. The lower the bar, the better their chances of passing the test even when their brain function was sputtering from a big hit. Those of us too cowardly to attempt the trick praised and admired our more courageous comrades for putting the team’s success before their own well-being — for exhibiting the toughness that stood as the sport’s highest virtue. At the time, none of us knew the magnitude of the risk those teammates were taking.
Samaha
 

Tony C

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Based on what? I don’t want to single you out, but unless there is a trail of messages or texts or anything that proves that Mike McDaniel knew that Tua had a concussion on before last night’s game, how is he culpable as the fall guy for a failure in the league’s protocol?
IF Mike McDaniel knew that Tua had a concussion, ie someone on the staff or the neurologist told him he did, and he chose to allow Tua back into the game and to play Thursday, he deserves to be fired.

That doesn’t appear to be the case, but if the investigation turns up that Tua was diagnosed with a concussion and a team doctor or McDaniel himself allowed Tua to continue, everyone involved in that process should be fired.
These are a bunch of straw man posts that strain credulity. Straw man in that the question could never be did he "know" better than medical professionals (one of whom was just fired for apparent incompetence). Strains credulity in that the question is if there was reason to suspect he had been concussed and that the back injury thing was pure nonsense. To deny there was plenty of reason to suspect there was a good chance -- per quotes from apparently qualified outside observers before the 2nd incident that he shouldn't be out there again -- is just naive.

I root for Tua and it's really sad that he's been so poorly served by medical and coach staffs (and color me cynical, but the idea there's no interplay btw them is also naive). I know Rex Ryan is a showboating blowhard, but the way he went off on McDaniel is fully justified. Inexcusable.
 

Van Everyman

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These are a bunch of straw man posts that strain credulity. Straw man in that the question could never be did he "know" better than medical professionals (one of whom was just fired for apparent incompetence). Strains credulity in that the question is if there was reason to suspect he had been concussed and that the back injury thing was pure nonsense. To deny there was plenty of reason to suspect there was a good chance -- per quotes from apparently qualified outside observers before the 2nd incident that he shouldn't be out there again -- is just naive.

I root for Tua and it's really sad that he's been so poorly served by medical and coach staffs (and color me cynical, but the idea there's no interplay btw them is also naive). I know Rex Ryan is a showboating blowhard, but the way he went off on McDaniel is fully justified. Inexcusable.
I just found the clip you’re talking about and generally agree:

View: https://twitter.com/espn/status/1576595544629288962?s=46&t=Mk-bBPS7XgYzm2eIkVUnTA


I also found Bruschi’s comments (starting at 1:37) that McDaniel‘s inexperience here likely played a role interesting. Tedy says that a more experienced coach would have told the medical team “Did you see what I just saw? Get out of my face, the kid’s not going back out there.”

And I would add that isn’t “Coaches making medical decisions” (which I agree is not appropriate) – it’s coaches taking some responsibility for the safety of their players and serving, as the panel says, as the last line of defense.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I just found the clip you’re talking about and generally agree:

View: https://twitter.com/espn/status/1576595544629288962?s=46&t=Mk-bBPS7XgYzm2eIkVUnTA


I also found Bruschi’s comments (starting at 1:37) that McDaniel‘s inexperience here likely played a role interesting. Tedy says that a more experienced coach would have told the medical team “Did you see what I just saw? Get out of my face, the kid’s not going back out there.”

And I would add that isn’t “Coaches making medical decisions” (which I agree is not appropriate) – it’s coaches taking some responsibility for the safety of their players and serving, as the panel says, as the last line of defense.
Everyone can make the right decision in hindsight. But, just like McDaniel said "I trust the medical staff to make those decisions", Rex Ryan said the exact same thing after Revis (and I'm sure plenty of other players) suffered a concussion.

“I’ll always lean on our trainers and our doctors,” said Ryan, who learned of the diagnosis Monday morning.

He added, “We’ll see how he progresses during the week.”
So, either he will always lean on the doctors or, with the benefit of hindsight and wanting to look good on TV, he had to tell his doctors, "there's no way I'm letting him back in the game!"

Rex Ryan is and always has been a blowhard.
 

sodenj5

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Tedy says that a more experienced coach would have told the medical team “Did you see what I just saw? Get out of my face, the kid’s not going back out there.”

And I would add that isn’t “Coaches making medical decisions” (which I agree is not appropriate) – it’s coaches taking some responsibility for the safety of their players and serving, as the panel says, as the last line of defense.
Rex Ryan has allowed concussed players to reenter the game at some point in his coaching career. Bill Belichick has. John Harbaugh allowed Lamar Jackson back into a game his rookie year where he went into the concussion protocol and was cleared.

This isn’t trying to deflect blame, but there are a ton of experts and coaches weighing in, and saying with a lot of conviction that they would never allow Tua to play if he was their player.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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So completely unrelated to what happened with Tua: if a player suffers a confirmed concussion, what's the absolute minimum before they can play again safely?

Everyone seems to agree 4 days (Sunday to Thursday) is too short. What about 7 days (Sunday to Sunday)? 8 days (Sunday to Monday)? More than 14 days (misses two games)?
 

sodenj5

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So completely unrelated to what happened with Tua: if a player suffers a confirmed concussion, what's the absolute minimum before they can play again safely?

Everyone seems to agree 4 days (Sunday to Thursday) is too short. What about 7 days (Sunday to Sunday)? 8 days (Sunday to Monday)? More than 14 days (misses two games)?
The timeline is: when they clear the protocol and aren’t exhibiting symptoms or side effects from a concussion.

If that’s a week, or a month, that’s what it should be. That’s the idea behind the protocol, because not everyone suffers them with the same severity and everyone responds to them differently.

It’s very difficult to make a blanket rule like “have a concussion, you sit a minimum of 10 days” and the union would never agree to such a rule.
 

Tony C

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Rex Ryan has allowed concussed players to reenter the game at some point in his coaching career. Bill Belichick has. John Harbaugh allowed Lamar Jackson back into a game his rookie year where he went into the concussion protocol and was cleared.

This isn’t trying to deflect blame, but there are a ton of experts and coaches weighing in, and saying with a lot of conviction that they would never allow Tua to play if he was their player.
I'm unclear what the relevance is if not to deflect blame. I mean...you're absolutely right that this has happened in the past. The hope has been that new rules/regulations would reduce its occurrence, and the criticism is that Miami's coach has ultimate responsibility for them having apparently been circumvented in this case.

To be clear: no one is claiming this has never happened before. Nor is anyone claiming that those criticizing have absolutely clean hands. Neither is relevant to the current issue beyond whataboutism.
 

djbayko

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I just found the clip you’re talking about and generally agree:

View: https://twitter.com/espn/status/1576595544629288962?s=46&t=Mk-bBPS7XgYzm2eIkVUnTA


I also found Bruschi’s comments (starting at 1:37) that McDaniel‘s inexperience here likely played a role interesting. Tedy says that a more experienced coach would have told the medical team “Did you see what I just saw? Get out of my face, the kid’s not going back out there.”

And I would add that isn’t “Coaches making medical decisions” (which I agree is not appropriate) – it’s coaches taking some responsibility for the safety of their players and serving, as the panel says, as the last line of defense.
Looks like Rex Ryan is still getting used to talking with those new choppers.
 

Flailing Jerry

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I know Tua’s excuse was that he had a back issue, but I see many hear specifically saying back spasm. Was back spasm the actual excuse used? Because as someone who has had chronic back spasm issues, limply flopping to the ground is the exact opposite response you would expect from a human. Spasms are your body’s way of trying to protect your spine from further injury. They make you want to stand stiff as a board (or otherwise feel intense pain).

This conversation is somewhat ridiculous because we all know what we saw on film that Sunday - some form of momentary neurological failure. But I just wanted to add this point about back spasms being a complete nonsense answer.
Much like concussions, or any injury for that matter, people experience back spasms differently. Mine feel like someone suddenly stabbed me from the inside out, and I have certainly wobbled and fallen to the ground as one came on. However, I don’t think I’ve ever had one come on right after getting my head slammed to the ground, and I’ve had at least a dozen concussions.

Watching the replay, I never thought “back spasm”.
 

Van Everyman

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Four days after the Tua shitshow. Cameron Brate got concussed on a play in the nationally televised TB/KC game, stumbled off the field, came back on a few plays later without ever having been brought into the blue tent ... and then got ruled out of the game at halftime. Tony Dungy said this:

View: https://twitter.com/TonyDungy/status/1576936991538655232?s=20&t=q61IbTOwYnwbVaCSBlBe5Q

Tony Dungy
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Broken system. I was on the sideline very close to Brate-obvious he had his bell rung. There’s a league appointed spotter in the press box who should stop play & alert the referee. Brate shouldn’t have been allowed to return until after an evaluation. Why didn’t that happen???
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Watching replay from last night, Cam Brate collided with Godwin, was down a second, got up, ran off on his own (though not fast enough to avoid a 12-men-on-field penalty). He came back in, even had a target, looked OK, later ruled to have a concussion.
The whole "We're we're just fans watching TV, we need to trust the medical professionals"/"Every coach calling this out is a hypocrite" line of criticism here isn't doing these guys any favors.

And Dungy may be sanctimonious but he's completely right. When a player is showing clear and obvious signs of being concussed on national television, and the league-appointed spotter in the press box still fails to mandate the player be taken off the field, the system is not only broken -- it's hopeless.
 

Justthetippett

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Whitworth was telling a story during the Thursday night game of his own teammates sending him off after a concussion. Wonder if we’ll get to that being the norm. I can’t imagine the guys in the huddle didn’t notice something off. He had that play in the end zone not long after and came up doing the head shake/helmet grab thing that goes along with concussive reactions. I’m all for a better system, but the players (and particularly the team leaders) need to a bit do more to protect each other too. If TB tells Brate to get off and get checked in that situation, he does.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Four days after the Tua shitshow. Cameron Brate got concussed on a play in the nationally televised TB/KC game, stumbled off the field, came back on a few plays later without ever having been brought into the blue tent ... and then got ruled out of the game at halftime. Tony Dungy said this:

View: https://twitter.com/TonyDungy/status/1576936991538655232?s=20&t=q61IbTOwYnwbVaCSBlBe5Q


The whole "We're we're just fans watching TV, we need to trust the medical professionals"/"Every coach calling this out is a hypocrite" line of criticism here isn't doing these guys any favors.

And Dungy may be sanctimonious but he's completely right. When a player is showing clear and obvious signs of being concussed on national television, and the league-appointed spotter in the press box still fails to mandate the player be taken off the field, the system is not only broken -- it's hopeless.
I wonder what would have happened if Dungy found the team doctor or head coach and spoke up?
 

Marciano490

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I wonder what would have happened if Dungy found the team doctor or head coach and spoke up?
I hate Dungy too, but there’s enough to dislike about the guy without blaming him for not running to the locker room to shout at the doc and coach like a movie.
 

8slim

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I'm not sure that Ted Johnson, to name one example, would give Belichick an overwhelming stamp of approval in that department. To some extent, I don't think you can be an NFL head coach without pushing that line in a way that would make us all uncomfortable.
Yea, the use of "obvious" carries a lot of weight there. Also, "not recently". So basically, back before the NFL acknowledged that concussions are a thing, BB would pull a player if he appeared visibly out-of-it. Now those situations are caught.
 

Mystic Merlin

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And retorts like that (Ha! You haven’t always identified concussions! Fraud!) may feed some of the ‘defer to the medical clearance period’ sentiment among at least some coaches.
 

Silverdude2167

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I am one of the biggest BB stans out there, but his answer is definitely "we are making sure he is not going to make a mistake on the field" not "we are checking for his safety and we'll being"
 

Jimbodandy

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I am one of the biggest BB stans out there, but his answer is definitely "we are making sure he is not going to make a mistake on the field" not "we are checking for his safety and we'll being"
Agreed but it's also staking out some ground that the docs sometimes clear dudes who shouldn't play and that the coaches will add additional checkpoints.
 

sezwho

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I'm not sure that Ted Johnson, to name one example, would give Belichick an overwhelming stamp of approval in that department. To some extent, I don't think you can be an NFL head coach without pushing that line in a way that would make us all uncomfortable.
Happened to hear on toucher and Rich this morning Ted Johnson tell the story of BB telling him to take the red jersey off (which he was wearing for a concussion) and get into contact drills. Didn’t end well. Rough.
 

Jimbodandy

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Happened to hear on toucher and Rich this morning Ted Johnson tell the story of BB telling him to take the red jersey off (which he was wearing for a concussion) and get into contact drills. Didn’t end well. Rough.
I'm not questioning Ted's story or motives, but he's the only guy with this narrative among the thousands of players that Belichick has coached or managed as pyramid head of player personnel. You would think that there would be more, if BFB made a habit of sending guys out there like meat suits.

edit: if there are others, I'm unaware of them. Ted's claims have been out there for a long while.
 

Shelterdog

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Happened to hear on toucher and Rich this morning Ted Johnson tell the story of BB telling him to take the red jersey off (which he was wearing for a concussion) and get into contact drills. Didn’t end well. Rough.
I believe that story but also note that it was 18 years ago or more; I suspect BB has evolved on concussion treatment since then.

It is clearly the right answer that the coaching staff should make a separate evaluation after a player is cleared by a doctor whether they player is actually good to go (and relatedly I guess do you want to give a guy a little rest if it's ten minutes to go, the player has been banged up, whatever). I do think only a small number of NFL coaches would hold Tua out after that Sunday hit if he was as reported showing not symptoms and the doctors pretty firmly said he hadn't had a concussion. [Obv it's unclear what factually happened]
 
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NortheasternPJ

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I believe that story but also note that it was 18 years ago or more; I suspect BB has evolved on concussion treatment since then.

It is clearly the right answer that the coaching staff should make a separate evaluation after a player is cleared by a doctor whether they player is actually good to go (and relatedly I guess do you want to give a guy a little rest if it's ten minutes to go, the player has been banged up, whatever). I do think only a small number of NFL coaches would hold Tua out after that Sunday hit if he was as reported showing not symptoms and the doctors pretty firmly said he hadn't had a concussion. [Obv it's unclear what factually happened]
I believe that BB was 100% wrong in that situation, Ted was right and I'm hoping BB has evolved. Ted's also been axe grinding on BB for 18 years since then and brings it up all the time. He'll also say BB is the best coach he ever had and is a legend. I do think Ted axe-grinds on this every chance he gets and he's right to.
 

JCizzle

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I believe that story but also note that it was 18 years ago or more; I suspect BB has evolved on concussion treatment since then.

It is clearly the right answer that the coaching staff should make a separate evaluation after a player is cleared by a doctor whether they player is actually good to go (and relatedly I guess do you want to give a guy a little rest if it's ten minutes to go, the player has been banged up, whatever). I do think only a small number of NFL coaches would hold Tua out after that Sunday hit if he was as reported showing not symptoms and the doctors pretty firmly said he hadn't had a concussion. [Obv it's unclear what factually happened]
The Edelman hit in the Super Bowl is a pretty decent comparison to the Tua situation in my opinion (at least based on what I remember of it). I think most viewers assume he got a concussion. However, he was cleared by the independent doctor and he played the rest of the game. I'm sure Edelman would do it again and I'm guessing most fans were ok with the outcome :redwine:
 
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sodenj5

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We’re on to the Jets.

Teddy Bridgewater will start. Tua is out indefinitely in the protocol. This is 100% a game that Teddy is capable of winning with a week+ of rest and preparation. It’s literally why he was brought here.

Jets are coming off a win but are a lower third team in both offensive and defensive DVOA. I think this could be a big game for the defense as Wilson is error prone and Boyer is going to throw all sorts of stuff to confuse him. The exotic blitzes and Cover 0 don’t work as well against the elite QBs because they have answers, but they normally feast on the mid to lower tier guys.

At some point it would be nice to see the ground game really get going. Miami has been very reliant on Tyreek and Waddle, but if they can actually get some complementary runs in, the offense will ratchet up another notch.
 

Harry Hooper

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The Edelman hit in the Super Bowl is a pretty decent comparison to the Tua situation in my opinion (at least based on what I remember of it). I think most viewers assume he got a concussion. However, he was cleared by the independent doctor and he played the rest of the game. I'm sure Edelman would do it again and I'm guessing most fans were ok with the outcome :redwine:
The Edelman stagger was more likely an aggravation of his existing hip injury than a concussion. He traveled to Disneyland the next morning and was paraded around in an open carriage in the sun.
 

sodenj5

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The Edelman stagger was more likely an aggravation of his existing hip injury than a concussion. He traveled to Disneyland the next morning and was paraded around in an open carriage in the sun.
The Tua stagger was more likely an aggravation of his existing back injury than a concussion. He played the entire second half of the Buffalo game in the sun and seemed fine the entire week in meetings and interviews.
 

pdaj

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Here's (a little of) what I think about the concussion issue in football.

Firstly, I think that the vast majority of current and former NFL coaches are talking out of their … backsides … when being critical of Miami's handling of Tua. This is a Hershel Walker/abortion level of hypocrisy. It wouldn't take long to find countless examples of this if one were to look into the past player handlings of Harbaugh, Belichick, Ryan, and just about any other head coach. Many have already been highlighted on Twitter and other social media formats.


Joe Burrow

Julian Edelman


This is because the strategies in place for player safety do not exist in a vacuum. There are always strong competing contingencies in place. In other words, let's compare two fictitious scenarios.

Scenario 1:

The Cardinals are 8-0. They're up 21-0 late into the 3rd quarter vs. the Jets. They have a BYE next week. Kyle Murray takes a big hit. He's slow to get up and is called over to the tent.

Scenario 2:

The Panthers are 4-4. The game is tied 21-21 in the 4th quarter vs. the Bucs. Baker Mayfield takes a big hit. He's slow to get up and is called over to the tent.

In the first scenario? Kliff Kingsbury's job is safe. The season's going well. Hell, they can likely finish off the Jets with Colt McCoy. And Kyler Murray? He just signed a massive contract extension. His job/money is as secure as it gets. Even if Kyler has only minor "concussion symptoms", he'll go into the concussion protocol with 0 risks of missing their next game, which is 2 weeks away. While there is the "Can Kyler Murray stay healthy?" media narrative, the competing contingencies are minimal.

In the 2nd scenario, we have significant competing contingencies on the coaching and player end of things. Matt Rhule's playing for his job, and Baker's doing the same, while he's also vying for his next big contract. In this situation, everyone involved has influences that interfere with the safest, most conservative option.

Let's pretend that Baker passes his concussion check (*more on this later), but Rhule notices that he seems a bit "off," and says to him, "I'm pulling you for your own good." Baker's response may possibly be, "Go fuck yourself. If you pull me, you're fucking with my career and money. I'm playing." Or, more likely, he may think this, while presenting his argument much more cordially/convincingly.

I can't remember a time when the NFL has been this 24/7. EVERY FUCKING SECOND OF THE DAY, "analysts" are breaking down QB performances, ranking the league's QBs, and calling for a number of QBs to be replaced. ALL OFF-SEASON AND SEASON, Tua's heard that he's not good enough, he can't stay healthy, and that this is his ONE YEAR to prove that he's "legit." Is it a surprise that he has to be taken out on a stretcher before ever leaving willingly? Tua's wonky brain was likely screaming, "THIS IS YOUR CAREER AT STAKE! EVERYTHING YOU EVER WANTED WILL BE TAKEN from YOU!"

This brings me back to concussion testing. I have the joy of attending graduate school with many future sports psychologists, a few of who are specializing in brain trauma. Here's the deal: Players are experts in the process. They do things like intentionally underperforming on their baseline test (which is used to assess their cognitive status post potential head trauma), memorize common/standard questions, and flat-out lie about concussion symptoms.

It's a lot more complicated of an issue than most are reporting on.
 

Shelterdog

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Feb 19, 2002
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The Tua stagger was more likely an aggravation of his existing back injury than a concussion. He played the entire second half of the Buffalo game in the sun and seemed fine the entire week in meetings and interviews.
Well then it's pretty obvious he was fine, even after the next time he got hit in the head he turned freaking catatonic. Oh and one of the two doctors lost his job about it.

Maybe my sarcasm meter is broken and this is the point you're trying to make, but none of us know for sure whether Edelman or Tua got concussed on their hits, but it seems foolish in the extreme to rule out the possibility of concussions in either the Edelman superbowl hit or the Tua "back injury" issue.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
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Nov 4, 2007
62,312
The Tua stagger was more likely an aggravation of his existing back injury than a concussion. He played the entire second half of the Buffalo game in the sun and seemed fine the entire week in meetings and interviews.
I wanna respect forum rules and be sensitive to the fact that you’re probably always on the defensive here, but not only are you taking positions complete inconsistent with what we all saw with our own eyes, but the Miami franchise hasn’t been a model for a minute now. Between Saban kicking folks, bribing Flores to tank, trying to snag Brady, I’d think you can admit that maybe somethings a little rotten in Miami, and it isn’t just the fentanyl in the coke supply.

And, yes yes Spygate. Deflategate. Tu quoque. Pats aren’t any better, but I get that. It’s a team, not a religion. You can let the doubts in. Y’all played games with a young man’s brains to win some football games and now he’s all fucked up and the team will likely win less. It was dumb, greedy and venal.
 

sodenj5

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Jul 14, 2005
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I wanna respect forum rules and be sensitive to the fact that you’re probably always on the defensive here, but not only are you taking positions complete inconsistent with what we all saw with our own eyes, but the Miami franchise hasn’t been a model for a minute now. Between Saban kicking folks, bribing Flores to tank, trying to snag Brady, I’d think you can admit that maybe somethings a little rotten in Miami, and it isn’t just the fentanyl in the coke supply.

And, yes yes Spygate. Deflategate. Tu quoque. Pats aren’t any better, but I get that. It’s a team, not a religion. You can let the doubts in. Y’all played games with a young man’s brains to win some football games and now he’s all fucked up and the team will likely win less. It was dumb, greedy and venal.
This was meant to be sarcasm.

I do not believe that Tua was or is fine.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
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Nov 4, 2007
62,312
This was meant to be sarcasm.

I do not believe that Tua was or is fine.
Oh ok. Just the “what about you guys” seems to miss the message. Every single team and the league and college and congress should all do better. I’m glad the conversation is starting again. It sucks Tua had to be the sacrificial lamb.