2022-23 NBA Game Thread
- Thread starter Deathofthebambino
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KD needs 6 seasons of 2,000 points to catch him as of today. That would make him 40. Since his career high of 2,593 points when he was 25, he's made 2,000 points in a season twice in 8 seasons.
Doncic has 8,531 points as of today. Let's say he gets to 2,038 this season and 9,000 career. He needs 14 seasons of 2,000 points to catch Lebron as of today. He'd be 37. Note that if he got to 2,038 points this season, that would be a career high by 191. He really needs to turn it on the next few years to have a realistic shot at it.
And Lebron will likely break 40,000 and who knows by how much if he really likes playing with Bronny and if he wants to get a shot to play with Bryce.
Plenty of [deserved] Lebron talk, and Westbrook had a legitimately excellent game (this thing was absolutely over with OKC up 13 with less than 2 minutes, then Westbrook scored 9 points in just over a minute to actually make it interesting near the very end), but wtf Anthony Davis? This was a game the Lakers really needed to have (at home against one of the teams they need to climb over to get into the playoffs), and Davis manages just 9 shots (and 2 free throws), including just 1 in the 4th quarter. Lebron is a million years old, everyone knows Westbrook is a mess, the Lakers need the AD who had that 10 game stretch earlier this year when he averaged 35/16/3 and looked like the best player in the league. He's not injured, he averaged 31/12 over his last 3 games. Good lord, what a disappointing player.
I think he is injured though. He was a game time decision the game prior with his foot injury and was questionable earlier in the day today. I’m not a huge fan of his heart either but he’s clearly banged up (yes I know he’s always banged up).
Fair enough, although (as you note) this is basically his default position now. Sometimes I think about how people kill Lebron for his shitty GM skills, but he'd look a lot better in that regard if AD were still a top 5 player, instead of the guy who just missed his 2nd straight all star game. Oh well.
Here's AD during the record breaking shot. He seems off. Maybe he tweaked something.
View: https://streamable.com/9nvr4y
View: https://streamable.com/kekx2y
Cam Thomas is gonna break Lebron's record by next season. He's gone for 44, 43, and 47 in the last 3 games since Kyrie did his thing.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it has nothing to do with his accomplishments, which are (as you say) kinda beyond reproach. He's won a title with THREE different teams. He has every skillset you'd want. For me it's about how whiny he is on the court, acting like he's never committed a foul, acting like it's his god-given right that every time he drives to the basket, it's either uncontested or it must have been a foul. Not that (say) Tatum doesn't complain about calls, I've just always felt like Lebron did it more and was more annoying about it. What he's allowed to get away with on the court, too (in terms of flinging himself at the basket, usually traveling, and expecting a layup or a call) drove me crazy even back in the Paul Pierce days.
But my hate stops the minute he walks off the court. The guy is everything you could ask for as an ambassador for the sport, as a promoter for your brand, as a role model, Enes Kanter's objections notwithstanding. I thought The Decision was obnoxious but it was really just the start of a trend of stars making superteams. He later went back to his hometown and won a title for them. I could complain that he chose to go to the Lakers, and that he presumed to run the franchise, telling them what to do with their coach, their roster, that they must acquire X or trade Y, but that'd just be sour grapes.
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The gather step followed by two steps. This appears to be the correct non-call, no?
After the gather (2 hands on the ball) he takes 3 steps. IIRC, the gather step is just a step in the course of gathering, not after there's 2 hands on the ball, no?
I dont know about Russell, but if IIRC, Wilt wouldn't have put Kareem in his top 50000.
I think it’s 100% a travel. He took 3+ steps after the gather. Also, is the ball going back and forth in his hands while he’s doing that? Don’t think that’s legal either, no?
He’s also been pretty great with social issues too. I only “hated” Kareem in the context of the Celtics/Lakers rivalry. No issues with him at all since then. Have always felt that he’s been kind of underrated somehow given his vast accomplishments.
Bron: "I still feel like I can go out & compete with ANY group of guys, for ANY franchise for a championship"
Laker's not making the play-in game, while celebrating Bron's career achievements has a weird irony to it.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADXL2wDu5Y8
Laker's not making the play-in game, while celebrating Bron's career achievements has a weird irony to it.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADXL2wDu5Y8
This is a dumb and highly misinformed take.
In Lebron's 20 years in the league, the scoring average over that span is 102.81. That includes 8 years where the league scoring was below 100 points per game
In Kareem's 20 years in the league, the scoring average over that span was 108.89. That includes zero years where the league scored below 100 points per game
Yeah looked again. It seems like the ref was fooled into that shift into the other hand being a gather. I believe the gather was the step prior.
if that's legal, I'm going to go back into that thread in P&G and say I could make a basket in the NBA.
Yeah that's not true. The "Kareem as maybe GOAT" talk started at least five years ago. It's ridiculous talk, but I don't think that any legitimate ranking system has him outside of the top 5.
Some guys get punished for not enough longevity (Bird, Magic to a lesser extent), and some guys are punished for rings (Wilt, Barkley). Kareem checks all of the boxes. Crazy production, lots of rings. Nobody who has him outside of the top 10 is worth engaging. That said, the guys who have him as #1 aren't either IMO. Nobody who watched him play and watched Michael Jordan play can legitimately think that Kareem was a better basketball player. And Lebron dragged teams of jags to the finals so many times that it's a miracle that the guy hasn't needed back surgery. After those two guys, the conversation starts.
I love your posts on Ukraine, but have to disagree with you here. “Hate” is too strong a word, but his continuing silence and acquiescence about China’s abuses in Hong Hong back in 2019 were contemptible and made me lose all respect for him. He is a social justice fauxrior.
Go read through Ben Taylor's evaluation of Kareem, look at how long he played at an MVP level year-in-year-out, compare it to his evaluations of LeBron, Jordan and Russell, and let us know where you think the holes in the argument are. I found it very persuasive.
I wouldn't say I'm a Kareem GOAT guy, but there is a very rationale argument for him as the best player ever. His longevity was unprecedented before LeBron and maybe Karl Malone, and he completely dominated the game at times, was the best player in the NBA for probably close to a decade, has incredible accomplishments like winning the most MVPs and having the all-time scoring record. It's a hefty, hefty resume. The guy won Finals MVP's 15 years apart, that would be like LeBron winning the Finals MVP in 2027.
The most convincing argument for Kareem is that he had the best basketball career, since his college play was so dominant.
My Top 4 would be
1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. LeBron
4. Kareem
I don't begrudge anyone who feels that way, it's a totally reasonable thing to think. Taking the other side, a LeBron James apologia would start with "that's something I can't change, so I have to passively accept it and do the best I can under those circumstances". Maybe he tried to influence Stern and then Silver behind the scenes, along with various other owners, but ultimately to no avail. Maybe he strongly believes that the NBA having a presence in China, warts and all, ultimately is a social good for the Chinese because they can see elements of western culture, relative freedom, and be more aware that there's alternatives possible beyond their borders. Maybe he thinks that him speaking out, as the league's #1 star, would hurt a lot of people who depend on him for being responsible (or, uncharitably, anodyne) with that attention and symbolism.
Either way, I don't think there's some alternative path he could have taken in the last 5+ years that clearly would have done more good for more people, so I think it's a pretty harsh thing to judge him on. VS, say, all the various personal failings of other NBA stars which aren't arguable, both on and off the court, from Kobe to Carmelo to Lowry and on and on. But I do understand the people who think this is so important that all involved, including LeBron, should be willing to take a moral stand come-what-may.
Defense is way better than it's ever been in the NBA, it's just the skill level on offense went up too, and guys are way better athletes. People mistake fouling for defense, but the median defensive team this year would obliterate a 1970s or 1980s offense, especially if they got to play under the modern rules (zone allowed, etc.)
Nah, this idea that guys have to have a strong opinion and involvement in every social issue everywhere in the world to have one about issues where they live that effect people they know is bullshit.
Wow Orlando is pushing 20 years with no arrests. And unlike most teams' lists that are filled with JAGs the Lakers one has some star power.
I respect and appreciate LeBron as a player and generally as a person. His blindness towards China is disappointing, but also doesn't completely discredit any of the great things he has done in his community, or the validity of some of the comments he has made over the years about racism in the United States. He's obviously one of the greatest players in history and breaking the career scoring record is a historic achievement worth celebrating in grand style.
I think he's been really, really annoying this season. The constant comments indicating there is a conspiracy against him to prevent the Lakers from winning this season, the complete meltdown after the Celtics game, his refusal to lie down in the bed he made for himself by re-signing with the Lakers and playing GM, all gives off a sense of entitlement of success and a failure to accept that he isn't good enough anymore to drag a team very far without a very strong supporting cast. I kind of hope he just sits out the rest of the season so we can stop hearing about the Lakers and what they are going to, or not going to, do to appease him.
I think he's been really, really annoying this season. The constant comments indicating there is a conspiracy against him to prevent the Lakers from winning this season, the complete meltdown after the Celtics game, his refusal to lie down in the bed he made for himself by re-signing with the Lakers and playing GM, all gives off a sense of entitlement of success and a failure to accept that he isn't good enough anymore to drag a team very far without a very strong supporting cast. I kind of hope he just sits out the rest of the season so we can stop hearing about the Lakers and what they are going to, or not going to, do to appease him.
Man, J Rose roasting AD for sitting on his butt when LBJ breaks the record was pretty stinging. Basically that it'll be a lasting image that will follow AD around as a jealous guy unable to root for a teammate, or words to that effect.
It's doubly weird in that AD and LBJ are always a duo -- constantly sit next to each other on the bench and seem (have seemed?) to be inseparable allies. The only excuse I can think of is that AD had the flu or something -- I guess we've all been in one of those flu funks where you could win the lottery and sex for life with your favorite crush and the reaction is "yeah, ok, but I just wanna go to bed." But, that unlikely excuse aside...just a bizarre side story.
It's doubly weird in that AD and LBJ are always a duo -- constantly sit next to each other on the bench and seem (have seemed?) to be inseparable allies. The only excuse I can think of is that AD had the flu or something -- I guess we've all been in one of those flu funks where you could win the lottery and sex for life with your favorite crush and the reaction is "yeah, ok, but I just wanna go to bed." But, that unlikely excuse aside...just a bizarre side story.
Especially when the owners of LeBron’s league have $10b invested in the China market. That doesn’t mean “he loves China” it only means that he’s staying in his lane and not picking fights with 30 owners when it is these same owners who will need to approved his future franchise ownership. People will find any excuses to criticize him.
Kareem's teams without Oscar or Magic consistently underperformed. Sometimes even missing the playoffs. He beats out Kobe as the best 2nd banana of all time.
He's also the only top 12 guy that had his prime in the NBA during the ABA era. The weakest era of NBA basketball (followed by 96 - 01).
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Imagine Boston radio if Jaylen sat while Tatum accomplished something historic. It's really weird.
Even wider than that... basically every business in the US does business with China, every person in America uses products partially or wholly made in China, for all the tough rhetoric, both parties appease China when in power. And that's just China... nobody gives a shit about all the other dictatorships, oppression, etc. en-masse. I'd buy criticism of LeBron over China if he was weighing in on a bunch of other global regimes... he's not, he sticks to the things he knows well, like the experience of Black people in America.
I think he was pouting because he wanted to be on the floor during the moment. It's telling that lebron went had that moment with him later in the game to seemingly try and cheer him up.
Whenever we talk about these lifetime rankings, we're going to differ on where the longevity guys belong and how important rings are (and whether you were the obviously primary reason for those rings). Kareem's production is outstanding. He owned the 1970's statistically and MVP wise. That shit matters. And he won a bunch of rings. But he also won most of his rings after 32 playing with another top-10 all time player. So it's unsurprising to me that folks have wide variance on where they rank him within the top 10. I see him as 3-5 also.
LOL
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1623379921195114527
ESPN Sources: Lakers G Russell Westbrook and coach Darvin Ham had a brief, heated verbal exchange in the halftime locker room on Tuesday vs. OKC. Ham expressed frustration with how Westbrook lingered on the playing floor after getting subbed out of game late in second quarter.
Voices were raised in locker room, but discussion turned back to trying to win game vs. Thunder, sources said. Ham closed game with Westbrook, who had a season-high 14 points in fourth quarter. Ham and Westbrook dapped up prior to leaving arena later in night.
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1623379921195114527
ESPN Sources: Lakers G Russell Westbrook and coach Darvin Ham had a brief, heated verbal exchange in the halftime locker room on Tuesday vs. OKC. Ham expressed frustration with how Westbrook lingered on the playing floor after getting subbed out of game late in second quarter.
Voices were raised in locker room, but discussion turned back to trying to win game vs. Thunder, sources said. Ham closed game with Westbrook, who had a season-high 14 points in fourth quarter. Ham and Westbrook dapped up prior to leaving arena later in night.
This post is as dumb as your uncle. You have no idea who I am or what my views are.
Bob Ryan, as always, is worth a read:
LeBron James has been an extraordinary gift to basketball and its fans - The Boston Globe
A few parts:
LeBron James has been an extraordinary gift to basketball and its fans - The Boston Globe
A few parts:
This explains a lot about his play and behavior last night. But the lakers really need to end this and just trade him already.
The twitter verse (based on a JJ reddick pod) is running with to Utah this morning. My guess is he'll eventually get bought from wherever he lands and end up with the Clippers.
Yeah all roads for a Russ trade seem to lead to Utah. Can't see why they'd want him around but who knows.
Yeah the Kareem as GOAT argument is dependent on giving significant credit to his UCLA years.
LeBron is probably the GOAT. Incredible player. Pretty smart guy. Generally like his politics. Not a fan of his stance on Boston, but I get it’s an easy target for him. Almost always have rooted against his teams.
I don't think they want Russ. They want the expiring deal to get out of some long term financial commitments as well as whatever draft picks they can get the Lakers to throw in.
Haven't seen the latest rumors -- is it Conley and Beasley for Russ or something like that?
Yep so Russ is likely to be placed out by the curb. I am wondering where he ultimately winds up. The Clippers are rumored to be in the market for a guard but they have been linked to Conley after the Irving trade. Russ isn't Conley but maybe he works for them. He doesn't feel like a Ty Lue type of player though.
I don't know why Utah does that straight-up, but a lot of you guys know the cap way better. If I'm Ainge, I'm extorting something else from LAL on top of that.