2022-2023 General Celtics thread

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Right. We all saw this “trap game” coming basically.

But if it was that obvious to us, and it’s this explainable in retrospect, what do we take from the fact that it happened anyway?
 

lexrageorge

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Right. We all saw this “trap game” coming basically.

But if it was that obvious to us, and it’s this explainable in retrospect, what do we take from the fact that it happened anyway?
Yesterday was Atlanta Falcons day. So there was some overdue reverse karma that meant both Boston teams were going to lose no matter what. Not sure it’s the only or even the correct explanation, but it sounds good to me so I’m going with it.
 

chilidawg

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From Keith Smith:

The Celtics defensive effort was poor. There’s no other way to put that. It wasn’t just execution, but the scheme was also weird.
Maybe Boston was pre-switching actions, or maybe they have such little respect for Kristaps Porzingis that they didn’t feel a need to put size on him. Whatever the reason, having the single big (Al Horford or Rob Williams) floating while Porzingis took smaller players into the mid-post area was a bad choice. Porzingis repeatedly turned and shot over the smaller guys or drew a double-team and set up his teammates for good looks.
This was a combination of a bad scheme, one that was never really moved away from, and poor effort and execution. Predictably, that led to one of the worst defensive games Boston had played this season.


https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/3/29/23661593/a-blowout-bummer-10-takeaways-from-boston-celtics-washington-wizards
 

Jimbodandy

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From Keith Smith:

The Celtics defensive effort was poor. There’s no other way to put that. It wasn’t just execution, but the scheme was also weird.
Maybe Boston was pre-switching actions, or maybe they have such little respect for Kristaps Porzingis that they didn’t feel a need to put size on him. Whatever the reason, having the single big (Al Horford or Rob Williams) floating while Porzingis took smaller players into the mid-post area was a bad choice. Porzingis repeatedly turned and shot over the smaller guys or drew a double-team and set up his teammates for good looks.
This was a combination of a bad scheme, one that was never really moved away from, and poor effort and execution. Predictably, that led to one of the worst defensive games Boston had played this season.


https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/3/29/23661593/a-blowout-bummer-10-takeaways-from-boston-celtics-washington-wizards
This is pretty accurate. I watched the first quarter and turned it off. "Going through the motions" would be too generous to describe their effort. They weren't even really doing that.
 

Auger34

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This is pretty accurate. I watched the first quarter and turned it off. "Going through the motions" would be too generous to describe their effort. They weren't even really doing that.
The decision to have Smart/JB guard Porzingis while letting the Pistons guards/wings go by Al like a turnstile was also pretty interesting. You normally don’t hear about a coach going through the motions but maybe that’s what happened last night
 

Jimbodandy

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The decision to have Smart/JB guard Porzingis while letting the Pistons guards/wings go by Al like a turnstile was also pretty interesting. You normally don’t hear about a coach going through the motions but maybe that’s what happened last night
For sure. But the players absolutely were too. I saw a few possessions where guys either beat their man or got the ball on the cut and the rotating D didn't even bother getting near the rim let alone contest. It was like someone's dog died after layup lines and everyone decided to mail it in. Even guys who are normally hardos like White and Brogdon. Even Joe.
 

128

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That or they just want to give him time off to keep him fresh. That's how I read "management": His knees are fragile, he's probably dealing with a degree of pain on and off, and they want him as spry and well-rested as possible to avoid reinjuring it.
You're probably right. It would nice, though, to have a full complement of players for this game in Milwaukee.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I'm hoping Kornet gets some minutes. He's they're best rim protector with Rob out and he's a pretty good roll finisher.
No TL or Grant going against a Giannis/Lopez front line…..he may get the start with Blake being a better matchup against Portis on the second unit.
 

HereComesthePizza

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No free throws in the first half is mind-blowing. There’s just no way that Wiz roster should be able to guard Tatum and Brown (and Brogdon!) without fouling for an entire half of basketball.

If that doesn’t say “half-assed effort” nothing does.

Agreed with above that you can’t post a bunch of photos in pretty suits doing tourist shit and then put up that stinker. Terrible.
Considering what Memphis went through with Ja, the idea that the players look foolish because they visited the White House in suits is laughable. Are NBA players supposed to be spending their entire road trip breaking down film? I’d get the frustration if it looked like they were partying all night but these types of takes make the entire fan base look bad.
 

chilidawg

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Considering what Memphis went through with Ja, the idea that the players look foolish because they visited the White House in suits is laughable. Are NBA players supposed to be spending their entire road trip breaking down film? I’d get the frustration if it looked like they were partying all night but these types of takes make the entire fan base look bad.
Spot on.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Considering what Memphis went through with Ja, the idea that the players look foolish because they visited the White House in suits is laughable. Are NBA players supposed to be spending their entire road trip breaking down film? I’d get the frustration if it looked like they were partying all night but these types of takes make the entire fan base look bad.
I don’t really think Ja is relevant. Seems like it goes without saying it would be preferable if the Cs players didn’t brandish handguns in public.

If they want to party? Go for it! Just still put in the on-court effort.

Want to do tourist things in fancy suits? Great! But don’t treat the work portion of your trip as an after-thought.

I’ve been to DC many times for work and have sometimes been able to take in the sights, other times not. And maybe sometimes as a young kid got too hammered and been super hungover the next day and sucked at my job and had my boss say, “hey, wanna party? Go ahead. Just don’t suck at your job.”

That’s all I’m saying here and I think it’s actually the ethical highground, so I’m not sure how it reflects poorly on the fanbase? You get the bennies because you do the awesome performance. Get manhandled while sleepwalking? Suffer the criticism for not appearing focused on the task at hand.
 

HereComesthePizza

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I don’t really think Ja is relevant. Seems like it goes without saying it would be preferable if the Cs players didn’t brandish handguns in public.

If they want to party? Go for it! Just still put in the on-court effort.

Want to do tourist things in fancy suits? Great! But don’t treat the work portion of your trip as an after-thought.

I’ve been to DC many times for work and have sometimes been able to take in the sights, other times not. And maybe sometimes as a young kid got too hammered and been super hungover the next day and sucked at my job and had my boss say, “hey, wanna party? Go ahead. Just don’t suck at your job.”

That’s all I’m saying here and I think it’s actually the ethical highground, so I’m not sure how it reflects poorly on the fanbase? You get the bennies because you do the awesome performance. Get manhandled while sleepwalking? Suffer the criticism for not appearing focused on the task at hand.
The “larking around in suits” commentary wreaks of shut and dribble mentality. Maybe it’s not intentional but that is how it can be be perceived. It wasn’t just Grant, JB, and Malcolm that caused the team to lose; the team played like crap. Plenty of people here have offered solid analysis of what went wrong. How about we avoid comparing what internet commentators experiences are to professional athletes?

I’ve followed this site for years and always appreciated the thoughtfulness of post and analysis.Last year, it was clear posters were letting their personal biases against players like JB affect their posts. You might think it looks bad that players were in suits doing non-basketball things but is it a credible argument to blame this game on a WH visit? Seems far fetched to me.
 

HomeRunBaker

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You might think it looks bad that players were in suits doing non-basketball things but is it a credible argument to blame this game on a WH visit? Seems far fetched to me.
The last two champions visited the day after their Wizards game so you’d have to go back to 2016 and prior to see what history suggests. One thing we know is that athletes are routine oriented and spending the day outside of their routine, while not mentally preparing to compete later in the day, would appear to be more challenging then a normal road game.
 

HereComesthePizza

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The last two champions visited the day after their Wizards game so you’d have to go back to 2016 and prior to see what history suggests. One thing we know is that athletes are routine oriented and spending the day outside of their routine, while not being mentally preparing to compete later in the day, would appear to be more challenging then a normal road game.
The last two champions visited the day after their Wizards game so you’d have to go back to 2016 and prior to see what history suggests. One thing we know is that athletes are routine oriented and spending the day outside of their routine, while not mentally preparing to compete later in the day, would appear to be more challenging then a normal road game.
Even if you did that, it’s an entire roster visiting compared to 3 players.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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The “larking around in suits” commentary wreaks of shut and dribble mentality. Maybe it’s not intentional but that is how it can be be perceived. It wasn’t just Grant, JB, and Malcolm that caused the team to lose; the team played like crap. Plenty of people here have offered solid analysis of what went wrong. How about we avoid comparing what internet commentators experiences are to professional athletes?

I’ve followed this site for years and always appreciated the thoughtfulness of post and analysis.Last year, it was clear posters were letting their personal biases against players like JB affect their posts. You might think it looks bad that players were in suits doing non-basketball things but is it a credible argument to blame this game on a WH visit? Seems far fetched to me.
I think you're dancing around calling my comment racist, which is fine. I'll consider that.
 

Imbricus

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The “larking around in suits” commentary wreaks of shut and dribble mentality.
Not at all. I would've made the same comment about "larking around the city" if we had seen photos of them spending the day in shorts at Disneyland, or sniffing flowers in Levis on the banks of the Potomac, and they had shown up for a game mentally clocked out.

My comment had nothing at all to do with the fact that they were trying to do good (I'm proud of the fact that the Celtics have three of the smartest NBA players, and that they're willing to speak their mind about politics and injustice). It's just when the game is on, I want their head in the game, a la Kevin Garnett. I know, it wasn't just these three players who were lollygagging, but they had the misfortune of having their photos on the TV screen smiling and having a good time in the city on a night when the Celtics mailed in a stinker.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Right. We all saw this “trap game” coming basically.

But if it was that obvious to us, and it’s this explainable in retrospect, what do we take from the fact that it happened anyway?
Maybe we're smarter than we think?

Want to do tourist things in fancy suits? Great! But don’t treat the work portion of your trip as an after-thought.

I’ve been to DC many times for work and have sometimes been able to take in the sights, other times not.
I haven't seen the pics so don't know exactly what JB, MB, and GW did, but I think that being invited to the White House to talk about social justice policy initiatives with the DOJ is a bit different than what you describe. It's a hugely important deal to these three and while campaigning for JB to be a forward for all-NBA could create some good will, supporting JB's and MB's social initiatives are likely more important.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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The decision to have Smart/JB guard Porzingis while letting the Pistons guards/wings go by Al like a turnstile was also pretty interesting. You normally don’t hear about a coach going through the motions but maybe that’s what happened last night
IIRC, they've allowed Smart to play Porzingis a number of times with good success. I haven't gotten to the game yet but saw the 1Q and it was interesting to me how easily KP was able to shoot over defenders as (again IIRC) he really hasn't had that success against the Cs in the past.

As for Al, he has more and more nights where defending on the perimeter is an issue. Hopefully those nights are non-existent in the playoffs.
 

RorschachsMask

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Celtics points per possession allowed in isolation this season, and their percentile. Of the main rotation players.

Tatum- 0.72 PPP, 87th percentile.
Rob- 0.75 PPP, 84th percentile.
Hauser- 0.93 PPP, 52nd percentile.
White- 0.96 PPP, 44th percentile.
Al- 0.98 PPP, 40th percentile.
Grant- 0.98, 40th percentile.
Smart- 1.11 PPP, 19th percentile.
Brogdon- 1.15 PPP, 14th percentile.
Jaylen- 1.16 PPP, 12th percentile.
 

BrotherMouzone

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Aug 2, 2010
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I don’t really think Ja is relevant. Seems like it goes without saying it would be preferable if the Cs players didn’t brandish handguns in public.

If they want to party? Go for it! Just still put in the on-court effort.

Want to do tourist things in fancy suits? Great! But don’t treat the work portion of your trip as an after-thought.

I’ve been to DC many times for work and have sometimes been able to take in the sights, other times not. And maybe sometimes as a young kid got too hammered and been super hungover the next day and sucked at my job and had my boss say, “hey, wanna party? Go ahead. Just don’t suck at your job.”

That’s all I’m saying here and I think it’s actually the ethical highground, so I’m not sure how it reflects poorly on the fanbase? You get the bennies because you do the awesome performance. Get manhandled while sleepwalking? Suffer the criticism for not appearing focused on the task at hand.
The entire world doesn't revolve around a Tuesday night regular season basketball game. Get over yourself.
 

BrotherMouzone

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You were on the debate team in school, weren't you? Unassailable, really.
No debate team for me but I certainly never used the term "bennies" to describe how a basketball player is compensated.

Your post is dripping with racial overtones BTW, not just including the "bennies" comment. Don't know why you used the terms "fancy suits" and "tourist things" to describe three African-Americans going to the White House to discuss criminal justice reform.
 

Smokey Joe

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No debate team for me but I certainly never used the term "bennies" to describe how a basketball player is compensated.

Your post is dripping with racial overtones BTW, not just including the "bennies" comment. Don't know why you used the terms "fancy suits" and "tourist things" to describe three African-Americans going to the White House to discuss criminal justice reform.
The term bennies is slang for benefits, which is clear from context. OTOH, the idea that somehow a visit to DOJ somehow caused the Celtics to lose that game is a hot take that should be consigned to the dustbin of history. Next game.
 

ManicCompression

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Your post is dripping with racial overtones BTW, not just including the "bennies" comment. Don't know why you used the terms "fancy suits" and "tourist things" to describe three African-Americans going to the White House to discuss criminal justice reform.
Am I the only person reading the board who's tired of the posters who think they can read minds and imply pretty serious allegations at other posters in non V&N threads? The tone of comments like these reek of "when did you stop beating your wife?" pointed at posters who've been polite and thoughtful on this board for decades
 

HomeRunBaker

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Am I the only person reading the board who's tired of the posters who think they can read minds and imply pretty serious allegations at other posters in non V&N threads? The tone of comments like these reek of "when did you stop beating your wife?" pointed at posters who've been polite and thoughtful on this board for decades
No, you are far from the only one that’s for sure lol. I’m surprised as I haven’t seen BM give anything but good insights in the past. We all have bad days and bad takes let’s hope that’s all this is from him, a one-off.
 

Auger34

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Am I the only person reading the board who's tired of the posters who think they can read minds and imply pretty serious allegations at other posters in non V&N threads? The tone of comments like these reek of "when did you stop beating your wife?" pointed at posters who've been polite and thoughtful on this board for decades
Yeah, in this particular case it’s way too much. Especially the beating around the bush, attending to be semi-accusatory BS.

I don’t agree with what @MyDaughterLovesTomGordon but to heavily imply the term “bennies” is racist is fucking ridiculous.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Hey, I acknowledged above that I need to consider how race may have affected my take. Maybe people thought I was being sarcastic there, but I wasn't. All of us have our unconscious biases. I think there's a way to discuss such things without being a dick about it and piling on, but I'm not offended by the criticism or the suggestion that I should investigate my reasoning and language choices.

If I can offer context, I didn't know about the DoJ invitation/meeting - just saw some touristy looking shots on Twitter and was venting in frustration.

Didn't mean to derail the thread either; the quality of the board is important to me and I don't mean to diminish it.
 

Smokey Joe

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Yeah, in this particular case it’s way too much. Especially the beating around the bush, attending to be semi-accusatory BS.

I don’t agree with what @MyDaughterLovesTomGordon but to heavily imply the term “bennies” is racist is fucking ridiculous.
Closest I can come to a racist “bennies” definition is that it is term used on the Jersey shore to describe NYC tourists who come down in the summer and act obnoxious. The racist part is that it derives from the name Benny which is supposed to be typically Jewish. That and slang for amphetamines, which really isn’t race associated.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Am I the only person reading the board who's tired of the posters who think they can read minds and imply pretty serious allegations at other posters in non V&N threads? The tone of comments like these reek of "when did you stop beating your wife?" pointed at posters who've been polite and thoughtful on this board for decades
As someone on the other side of this argument I will simply say that I disagree about your characterization of some posts here.

I didn't perceive this recent thread as racist but I am definitely learning about how terminology can be misconstrued.

That said, I am not going to shut up and dribble when people try to excuse the actions of those who are racists or anti-semites because of charitable acts or simply because those showing grace aren't affected. And that's too bad if it upsets people. Maybe folks should stop trying to sell us on people who actively traffic in divisive language.
 
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BrotherMouzone

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Closest I can come to a racist “bennies” definition is that it is term used on the Jersey shore to describe NYC tourists who come down in the summer and act obnoxious. The racist part is that it derives from the name Benny which is supposed to be typically Jewish. That and slang for amphetamines, which really isn’t race associated.
I construed it as meaning "Benjamins", and it looks like I'm the only one who saw it that way. So for that I apologize.
 

ManicCompression

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That said, I am not going to shut up and dribble when people try to excuse the actions of those who are racists or anti-semites because of charitable acts or simply because those showing grace aren't affected. And that's too bad if it upsets people. Maybe folks should stop trying to sell us on people who actively traffic in divisive language.
Can you not admit that there's a better way of alerting a poster to crossing a line? That maybe leaping to accusations of x-ism is actually detrimental to whatever project you support? It's not like MDLTG is some random poster lobbing bombs in the thread, he's someone we can reliably say is not a troll and has good intentions. Even BZ above notes that he misconstrued what the poster said - considering that there's a multitude of ways we can misunderstand each other via short written posts on a message board, perhaps giving each other the benefit of the doubt to start would be more constructive than immediately drawing moral judgments.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Can you not admit that there's a better way of alerting a poster to crossing a line? That maybe leaping to accusations of x-ism is actually detrimental to whatever project you support? It's not like MDLTG is some random poster lobbing bombs in the thread, he's someone we can reliably say is not a troll and has good intentions. Even BZ above notes that he misconstrued what the poster said - considering that there's a multitude of ways we can misunderstand each other via short written posts on a message board, perhaps giving each other the benefit of the doubt to start would be more constructive than immediately drawing moral judgments.
I agree that that @MyDaughterLovesTomGordon , who is nothing but a good faith poster around these parts, deserves the benefit of the doubt.

On the other hand, there are other posters who saw pushback in the Kyrie thread and decided to go even harder in defending them. From where I sit, if people are telling you who they are, you need to believe them.

To put a fine point on it, I too strongly prefer that we discuss all things hoops here and leave the social/political commentary aside. But sports does intersect with a lot of political and cultural issues so we wind up there from time to time. These exercises in figuring out our current community standards may not be comfortable but they are necessary.

What we don't need are the situations where people are excusing, rationalizing or explaining the problematic behavior of others. They can hold that view but maybe the lesson here is if they aren't compelled to share here, there will be none of the pushback you cite.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I agree that that @MyDaughterLovesTomGordon , who is nothing but a good faith poster around these parts, deserves the benefit of the doubt.

On the other hand, there are other posters who saw pushback in the Kyrie thread and decided to go even harder in defending them. From where I sit, if people are telling you who they are, you need to believe them.

To put a fine point on it, I too strongly prefer that we discuss all things hoops here and leave the social/political commentary aside. But sports does intersect with a lot of political and cultural issues so we wind up there from time to time. These exercises in figuring out our current community standards may not be comfortable but they are necessary.

What we don't need are the situations where people are excusing, rationalizing or explaining the problematic behavior of others. They can hold that view but maybe the lesson here is if they aren't compelled to share here, there will be none of the pushback you cite.
Hey mods! What does someone have to do here before there are banned because this is like the 5th time that this Fucking Asshat has implied to the board that I’m an anti-Semite?

We had an issue that desolved weeks ago yet at the first fucking opportunity to come after me again this fuck face takes it. I’m all for posters monitoring the board themselves just as occurred with todays issue but it’s pretty apparent that FuckinDeJesus isn’t capable of doing such. So I’ll ask one time if he is going to remain a member here or will you continue allowing him to slander me with baseless and inaccurate claims at every opportunity? Please take your response seriously. Thank you.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Hey mods! What does someone have to do here before there are banned because this is like the 5th time that this Fucking Asshat has implied to the board that I’m an anti-Semite?

We had an issue that desolved weeks ago yet at the first fucking opportunity to come after me again this fuck face takes it. I’m all for posters monitoring the board themselves just as occurred with todays issue but it’s pretty apparent that FuckinDeJesus isn’t capable of doing such. So I’ll ask one time if he is going to remain a member here or will you continue allowing him to slander me with baseless and inaccurate claims at every opportunity? Please take your response seriously. Thank you.
Keep telling us what a wonderful person Kyrie is and you will keep getting this.
 

benhogan

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I agree that that @MyDaughterLovesTomGordon , who is nothing but a good faith poster around these parts, deserves the benefit of the doubt.

On the other hand, there are other posters who saw pushback in the Kyrie thread and decided to go even harder in defending them. From where I sit, if people are telling you who they are, you need to believe them.

To put a fine point on it, I too strongly prefer that we discuss all things hoops here and leave the social/political commentary aside. But sports does intersect with a lot of political and cultural issues so we wind up there from time to time. These exercises in figuring out our current community standards may not be comfortable but they are necessary.

What we don't need are the situations where people are excusing, rationalizing or explaining the problematic behavior of others. They can hold that view but maybe the lesson here is if they aren't compelled to share here, there will be none of the pushback you cite.
How do you reconcile your position on Jaylen Brown, when his defense of Kyrie was 100X of that of any poster in the Cellar?

or Adam Silver's position?
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34998993/nba-adam-silver-no-doubt-kyrie-irving-not-antisemitic

or your position on Kyrie last month?

Also, lets have some perspective here - Kyrie is essentially an annoying troll and a locker room cancer. That's all he is guilty of. He may not be the worst person on his own team (I know nothing - just allowing for the very real possibility that one of his teammates is worse), he certainly isn't the worst person playing in the NBA and his crimes pale compared to lots of other star professional athletes.
the only thing @HomeRunBaker is guilty of is having a strong opinion on hoops

Get over yourself dude.
 

nighthob

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Back on topic. The Milwaukee Bucks came loaded for bear tonight. Unfortunately for the Bucks they found themselves facing Cocaine Bear instead.