2022-2023 General Celtics thread

Fishy1

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I agree with those concerned about depth at center, and I'm sure Brad worries about it. We're going to see minutes from Kornet and Vonleh both, depending on matchup, to see if either of them can offer good minutes. The team looks pretty desperate for some kind of rim protection other than Al. Kornet unfortunately is the only guy on the roster other than Horford who offers much rim deterrence, while obviously being easy to push around and a weakness around the perimeter and all the other caveats that rightfully are attributed to him.

I don't know how much time Griffin will get. He seems like he still might be useful, but I'm not sure he offers much that Grant doesn't. The charges are nice, the defense otherwise is not. He'll get a shot of course.

Hopefully Rob is fully healthy and ready to go the rest of the way when he comes back. I'm worried the knee is not only going to irritate him but bother his athleticism as well. I don't have much rational basis for this other than what doctors on this website have talked about, so forgive me if that seems off-base.

I don't exactly want this team to have to give Kornet or Vonleh 25 mins a night if Williams isn't able to stay on the floor.
 

Cellar-Door

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I agree with those concerned about depth at center, and I'm sure Brad worries about it. We're going to see minutes from Kornet and Vonleh both, depending on matchup, to see if either of them can offer good minutes. The team looks pretty desperate for some kind of rim protection other than Al. Kornet unfortunately is the only guy on the roster other than Horford who offers much rim deterrence, while obviously being easy to push around and a weakness around the perimeter and all the other caveats that rightfully are attributed to him.

I don't know how much time Griffin will get. He seems like he still might be useful, but I'm not sure he offers much that Grant doesn't. The charges are nice, the defense otherwise is not. He'll get a shot of course.

Hopefully Rob is fully healthy and ready to go the rest of the way when he comes back. I'm worried the knee is not only going to irritate him but bother his athleticism as well. I don't have much rational basis for this other than what doctors on this website have talked about, so forgive me if that seems off-base.

I don't exactly want this team to have to give Kornet or Vonleh 25 mins a night if Williams isn't able to stay on the floor.
I mean, Griffin isn't there to take Grant minutes, he's deeper in the rotation (same with Kornet and Vonleh) so you'd expect him to be worse than Grant. I will say one thing he brings over Grant is size, he's 2.5" inches taller, 15-20lbs heavier, and has a but more reach and wingspan. He's going to be more effective bodying up true centers in the post than Grant in the same way Al does (though obviously Al is a terrific defender and Griffin isn't) which can be okay with bench units, particularly in the regular season where it's less likely he gets hunted by quick/strong wings.
Also, I think even without the TL injury we were likely going to see more 1 big lineups, you don't add Brogdon and Gallo unless that was the plan.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The postseason plan for center is Rob.

The current guys - Kornet, Blake, Vonleh, Kabangele, even small with Grant - are all stopgap measures. They are fine for that, but not really fine for any more than that.

In the event that Rob is not going to be the answer this year, which is possible, I would expect Brad to look outside the orgianization for an answer.

Cody Zeller just got cut from what looked like a vet min deal with Portland. I do wonder about someone like him. Might he be a better "break glass" option than some of what we have? (But at the end of the day, I tjink they are basically fine and Brad will make a deal if Rob isn't the eventual answer.)
 

RorschachsMask

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Our net rating last year with Tatum at the 4, and one of Kanter/Grant/Theis at center. I think they’ll be okay with Grant/Blake/Vonleh.

56543
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Brad Wanamaker played oversees and he was a decent bench piece that led the league in FG% one season.
Without looking it up, don't you mean FT% not FG%?

Vonleh seems pretty cromulent for a 14th roster spot. I mean he averaged 18.5 points and 18.5 rebounds while shooting 85.7% from the field and 100% from 3P line (per 36 minutes). :) The fact that he had to go overseas to get a bit better, that doesn't seem so strange to me.
 

The Mort Report

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Without looking it up, don't you mean FT% not FG%?

Vonleh seems pretty cromulent for a 14th roster spot. I mean he averaged 18.5 points and 18.5 rebounds while shooting 85.7% from the field and 100% from 3P line (per 36 minutes). :) The fact that he had to go overseas to get a bit better, that doesn't seem so strange to me.
Yup you are correct, I fixed it.

Plus he's young enough still to maybe surprise a game or two I would hope. And surprise I mean put up a 12/11 double double, nothing crazy. He's only 27, and went #9 in the 2014 draft, and from what I remembered heavily mocked to go to the C's at #6(he was who I wanted them to take, glad they went with Marcus, duh). I think for a guy like him going overseas is a good thing, grounds them a bit when they might still might be thinking like a lottery pick. He's the kind of player a team like this needs in the 10-15 range, some skill, young enough, but been around long enough not trying to earn a "big" contract
 

HomeRunBaker

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@HomeRunBaker usually crushes NBA over/under...

do you agree with @bowiac thoughts on LAL, CHI, Charlotte, etc for the season?
Not going to be able to decipher those numbers tonight and driving for next two days. I’ll post my Totals plays once I organize them but over the past month I went from only wanting to be involved with a few teams to having a position on nearly half LOL!!

Of those you mention, I have some Laker Under and a lot of Hornet and Bull Under. bowiac does phenomenal work on these especially incorporating preseason numbers which most people throw out completely.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Celts unveil new uniform that honors Bill Russell.



Jesus, this image is huge. Normally I don't love all of the new uniforms that the NBA drops every year but I really like this one a lot.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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It’s a nice uniform but how does it honor Russell?
The script is based on the restaurant he opened in Boston during the 60s. The 11 diamonds are representative of the 11 Championships he won. The 6, surrounded by 11 diamonds on the waistband is his number and championships. And there is a really faint parquet pattern on the black side panel, which refers to the court.

All of the City Connect NBA uniforms were supposed to be announced on Thursday, but this was released early because the Celts are going to wear it tomorrow night against Philadelphia.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Isn't the darker green color closer to what Russell wore than the current, lighter green as well?
 

snowmanny

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The Athletic (Zach Harper) has the Celtics 8th in their initial power ratings. Below GSW, MIL, LAC, PHX, MIA, PHI, DEN.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The Athletic (Zach Harper) has the Celtics 8th in their initial power ratings. Below GSW, MIL, LAC, PHX, MIA, PHI, DEN.
Is this a full season predictor or where they have each team on opening night? If it’s the latter and the Bucks are #2 without Middleton along with a veteran team that doesn’t figure to value the regular season as much that’s a huge LOL! I don’t even have them winning their division.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The Celtics chances this season rest on the following, in this order:

1. Improvement from Tatum and Brown. They were very good last year, but for this team to win they need to be better. Preseason signs were encouraging on this front.
2. Health for key supporting cast players Brogdon and (when he returns) Rob Williams. Rob contributes at both ends but is particularly important for the defense and for competing against bigger, longer teams. Brogdon is like a player who was designed in a lab to address the main offensive weakness exposed by Golden State in the finals. Ballhandler who doesn't turn it over, skilled offensive player who can create for others and himself, can play off ball and hit catch and shoot threes, big enough to fit into the Celtics defensive scheme even if he doesn't have the athleticism to excel in it. The only weakness is his health.
3. Mazzulla succeeding as a young first year coach. Udoka's suspension accelerated Mazzulla's timetable. He was going to go into next offseason as the hot commodity in the coaching market after a year as Udoka's lead assistant. Now he's got to jump right into a coaching job instead of one more year to gain experience. There's no doubting his potential as a coach, but there will likely be growing pains as well. Heck, look at the difference between Ime's first 3 months in the job and his next 6. My concern of the moment is that he will prioritize the short term over the long-term, October-November over May-June. That's based solely on one indeterminate data point - the last preseason game - so I would call it a mostly speculative concern. But I'll be looking to see whether Tatum and Brown are among the league minutes leaders, whether Mazzulla rides Horford hard (as in stepping up his minutes over last year) while Rob is out, whether Hauser gets meaningful rotation minutes, etc.
 

Cellar-Door

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Is this a full season predictor or where they have each team on opening night? If it’s the latter and the Bucks are #2 without Middleton along with a veteran team that doesn’t figure to value the regular season as much that’s a huge LOL! I don’t even have them winning their division.
Bit of both, bit of neither as he notes it's just a subjective ranking and the first one takes short and long term into consideration. His writeup was pretty reasonable... new coach, serious concerns about TL and big man depth accordingly.
 

lovegtm

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Well, that was about as encouraging as it gets. Felt like they outplayed Philly hard most of the game, and the Sixers only stayed in it due to some foul calls and poor Celtics shooting early on great 3-point looks.

The quality of Celtics' 2-point looks was really, really good. This team has a lot of firepower, and I think the offense will look a lot better this year.

Defense played well, and the final Sixers' numbers look better than they were, due to all the 3-point fouls and a late flurry when the game was in hand.

The Cs feel very big even when they play small, just because there's so much size at the guard spots. Seems like Mazzulla wants to keep it that way, and DNP-CD'd PP.
 

Eddie Jurak

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This was kind of a weird game. Maybe because it was the first preseason game, the Celtics were of course without Rob and having to go up against Embiid, and early foul trouble messed up their big rotation.

That said, their offense looked excellent, though their defense looked to be very much a work in progress.

The Celtics jumped out to a 9-2 lead in the first before Philly went on a 23-8 run keyed by a flagrant landing spot foul on Horford that was BS. James Harden went up for a 3 with Al closing out. On the way down, Harden basically reached his foot out to land on Al's, leading to a flagrant foul on Al. I understand whythat rule exist, but shooters should not be allowed to hunt fouls like that and get awau with it - it should be the same kind of non-call as when a shooter kicks his leg out to make contact with thedefender on a jump shot. Anyway, this happened early and was Al's second foul, leading to Vonleh having to come in early , picking up 2 quick fouls, etc. The Celtics fouled Harden on another three pointer, later, and the Sixers ended the quarter up 29-24 behind 16 points from Harden (8-8 at the line).

The second quarter was a track meet won by the Celtics, 39-34, with Brown (14 points), Tatum (8 points), and Brogdon (8 points) accounting for most of the offense. Offensively speaking, the Celtics are just a different team with Brogdon as 6th man. He got them going in the quarter. Tied 63-63 at the half.

The third was the Celtics best quarter of the night - they won it 35-25, led by 17 from Tatum.

The Celtics started the with a lineup of Brogdon, White, Hauser, Blake, and Grant which held its own for a couple of minutes before the Celtics came back with Vonleh and Brown and continued to hand on until the starters came back late. The final score was 126-117, but the game was not as close as that.

Brown and Tatum looked great in this one, each scoring 35. Tatum added 12 rebounds and 4 assists. They did notshoot well from three (combined 6-19), but shot very well from 2 (combined 21-25). This was a mix of fast break offense, Tatum driving to the basket, and both Tatum and Brown taking good midrange shots when they took them. I think Tatum has changed the way he drives a bit, to great effect: he drives to the basket instead of driving past the basket and hoping to get a foul call or use his reach to lay it in.

Grant was in foul trouble a lot of the game and had to guard Embiid at times, but he managed to shoot 5-5 from the floor, including hitting 3-3 from three and converting a 3 point play. He drove one closeout from the corner for one of his 2 point baskets. 15 points total.

Brogdon immediately showed his value, coming off the bench to score 16 points on 7-11 shooting, though he missed both of his threes. He also had 4 assists and was able to driveto score or to find teammates.

Smart, after a mediocre preseason, had a nice game. Shot only 3-8 from the floor (1-4 from three), but got to the line a lot (7-8 FTs) and finishing with 14 points and a team-leading 7 assists. There was a third quarter fast break where Bogdon had the ball and had Tatum and Brown running the floor... and Brogdon's pass found neither of them. I wonder if he knew which of them he was passing to and if they knew which one should get it. But the Celtics controlled the rebound and Smart buried his only three.

The center rotation was messed up by having Horford pick up 2 quick fould followed by Vonleh doing the same. Al, Vinleh, Blake, and maybe a minute or 2 of Grant in a small lineup played C. Blake continues to look old and creaky, and he missed both of his shots from the field, but he did have 5 rebounds and an assist in 8 minutes. I'm not sure what to take from this game given the foul trouble and having to play against Embiib, other than that the Celtics held their own.

No minutes for Luke Kornet and only 3 for Sam Hauser.

Hard to evaluate what this means going forward beyond thatthe fofense looks very good and the defense looks like it needs some work.
 

Eddie Jurak

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And none for Pritchard, which probably doesn't bode well for him, as long as Smart/White/Brogdon are healthy.
Yes, with one small caveat: maybe there is more of a place for him against other types of teams. Philly is a weird matchup for the Celtics especially without Rob.
 

128

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Yes, with one small caveat: maybe there is more of a place for him against other types of teams. Philly is a weird matchup for the Celtics especially without Rob.
No doubt. Same with Hauser. He got switched onto Maxey once, and it had the potential to go poorly. Fortunately for the C's, Maxey missed the shot.
 

lovegtm

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I don't think the defense was peak 21-22 Celtics by any means, but I thought they limited Embiid well and executed a non-trivial help defense well. Kept him off the line well too.

The numbers look worse because of all those Harden fouls and the late flurry by Philly when the game was completely over.
 

pjheff

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And none for Pritchard, which probably doesn't bode well for him, as long as Smart/White/Brogdon are healthy.
I’m wondering if Mazzulla’s use of the deeper bench will be determined by the opposition and the situation. Without Rob, the starting five plus Brogdon and Grant are going to get consistent minutes, but whereas the team might need Vonleh and Griffin’s strength against Embiid, perhaps Hauser and maybe even Pritchard will play more in different matchups.
 

lovegtm

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I’m wondering if Mazzulla’s use of the deeper bench will be determined by the opposition and the situation. Without Rob, the starting five plus Brogdon and Grant are going to get consistent minutes, but whereas the team might need Vonleh and Griffin’s strength against Embiid, perhaps Hauser and maybe even Pritchard will play more in different matchups.
Highly likely imo.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I don't think the defense was peak 21-22 Celtics by any means, but I thought they limited Embiid well and executed a non-trivial help defense well. Kept him off the line well too.

The numbers look worse because of all those Harden fouls and the late flurry by Philly when the game was completely over.
In the second quarter, Harden did not go to the line at all (and Philly only took 3 free throws) and the Celtics gave up 34, with Philly shooting 65% from the field. Q3 was better.
 

lovegtm

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In the second quarter, Harden did not go to the line at all (and Philly only took 3 free throws) and the Celtics gave up 34, with Philly shooting 65% from the field. Q3 was better.
Yup, agree that there were some rough stretches. Overall though, I was pleasantly surprised. Maybe I expected Philly to present more of a challenge for the defense, especially Embiid.

Outside of that Q2 stretch, I thought they played well, and it was a good validation of the smaller, more skill/speed approach that we'll see a lot of this year.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Yup, agree that there were some rough stretches. Overall though, I was pleasantly surprised. Maybe I expected Philly to present more of a challenge for the defense, especially Embiid.

Outside of that Q2 stretch, I thought they played well, and it was a good validation of the smaller, more skill/speed approach that we'll see a lot of this year.
Here's a thought: the Celtics game plan in this one might have been to run the Joel Embiid/James Harden Sixers off the floor, and that might have been a higher priority than halfcourt defense. Embiid has never been known for stamina and he was sucking wind at times tonight. If so, credit to Mazzulla for that game plan.

One curious coaching decision in this one: Tatum and Brown went off for 70 points on great shooting numnbers, and... the excellent defnsive wing Mattise Thybulle got just 23 seconds of playing time.
 
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lovegtm

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Here's a thought: the Celtics game plan in this one might have been to run the Joel Embiid/James Harden Sixers off the floor, and that might have been a higher priority than halfcourt defense. Embiid has never been known for stamina and he was sucking wind at times tonight. If so, credit to Mazzulla for that game plan.

One curious coaching decision in this one: Tatum and Brown went off for 70 points on great shooting numnbers, and... the excellent defnsive wing Mattise Thybulle got just 23 seconds of playing time.
The Sixers have real problems balancing offense and defense. Their good offensive players outside Embiid are bad defenders, and that makes it hard to get value from Embiid. He didn't impact the rim much on defense.

And then Thybulle would just get ignored by the Cs, which makes helping on Embiid easier.

I'm not as high as consensus on the Sixers as legit contenders.
 

benhogan

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The increase in offensive PACE/fast breaks last night was no mistake. Coach Mazz has stressed this all pre-season.

PACE should lead to a higher PPG against # vs the Schroeder walk the dog/burn clock/halfcourt games of last season.

plus TL is massive on D, once/if he returns blocks/steals will jump which should lead to more fast breaks.

Thought the team did a decent job with doubles/jumping lanes/turning the 76ers over. My only concern was Blake Griffin, he's not quick enough to be an undersized 5
 

Reverend

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Here's a thought: the Celtics game plan in this one might have been to run the Joel Embiid/James Harden Sixers off the floor, and that might have been a higher priority than halfcourt defense. Embiid has never been known for stamina and he was sucking wind at times tonight. If so, credit to Mazzulla for that game plan.

One curious coaching decision in this one: Tatum and Brown went off for 70 points on great shooting numnbers, and... the excellent defnsive wing Mattise Thybulle got just 23 seconds of playing time.
The increase in offensive PACE/fast breaks last night was no mistake. Coach Mazz has stressed this all pre-season.

PACE should lead to a higher PPG against # vs the Schroeder walk the dog/burn clock/halfcourt games of last season.

plus TL is massive on D, once/if he returns blocks/steals will jump which should lead to more fast breaks.

Thought the team did a decent job with doubles/jumping lanes/turning the 76ers over. My only concern was Blake Griffin, he's not quick enough to be an undersized 5
56660
 

TripleOT

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The Boston defense wasn’t as sharp as usual, but one thing they did do is take care of the defensive boards, giving up only four offensive rebounds after getting crashed to death in Toronto. Despite not having Rob Williams, they won the rebounding battle, and the offensive rebounding battle.
 

Mooch

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The Sixers have real problems balancing offense and defense. Their good offensive players outside Embiid are bad defenders, and that makes it hard to get value from Embiid. He didn't impact the rim much on defense.

And then Thybulle would just get ignored by the Cs, which makes helping on Embiid easier.

I'm not as high as consensus on the Sixers as legit contenders.
Part of it IMO is that Doc doesn't have a fucking clue how to coach this group. That constant drop coverage led to a lot of easy midrange open looks all night. If they do that against any good teams, they are going to give up a ton of points.
 

lovegtm

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Part of it IMO is that Doc doesn't have a fucking clue how to coach this group. That constant drop coverage led to a lot of easy midrange open looks all night. If they do that against any good teams, they are going to give up a ton of points.
True, although the personnel makes more complex coverages hard. Harden was getting abused off-ball by the Cs on a lot of plays; he just didn't have the awareness or effort.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Part of it IMO is that Doc doesn't have a fucking clue how to coach this group. That constant drop coverage led to a lot of easy midrange open looks all night. If they do that against any good teams, they are going to give up a ton of points.
I recall Brett Brown doing the same drop coverage in the bubble and Kemba roasting them with mid range shots.

I guess the question is what the better option for them is, as I’m not convinced it’s having Embiid chase wings/guards around the perimeter on a switch, since that adds wear and tear to him, I’m not sure how effective he’d be at it (especially against good teams), and he’s generally their only rim protector out there (not that they did a good protecting the rim last night anyways).

A zone with Embiid hovering around the paint, Thybulle/another wing defender up top, and hiding Harden in the corner may make sense, especially against the Celtics who have struggled at times against zone (it would have been even better with Simmons as that other wing defender of course). I take that point that a more sophisticated defensive scheme with the kind of re/un-switching the Celtics used to great effect last year is probably part of the answer, but I don’t know that the 76ers have personnel to make that work, since so many of their players are offense only (or if they load up on defense only players out there like Thybulle and Tucker, it clogs their offense to a halt).
 

Jimbodandy

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I'm not drawing any conclusions about the Celtics defense from game one against this particular team. Philly is going to score this year. What's TBD is whether they'll defend.

Love that the ball mojo is still strong. Thing was generally buzzing.

Also, for all of the points given up, I only remember one "who had that fucking guy" play on defense, where the communication completely fell apart. Considering a new coach and some non-trivial lineup turnover, that's not bad. I expected a bit more of the zagging when they should be zigging.