2022-2023 General Celtics thread

[NomarsFool]

I really can't imagine anyone trading a FRP for Pritchard.

I do think there could be some value in trading him for someone else's end of the bench BIG, as the Celtics are still a little thin in that regard. But, on the other hand, not sure PP brings back anyone better than Blake Griffin - so maybe better just to hold onto him for insurance as he is at least playable and can give some minutes if one of our top 3 guards are out.

 

[benhogan]

I really can't imagine anyone trading a FRP for Pritchard.

I do think there could be some value in trading him for someone else's end of the bench BIG, as the Celtics are still a little thin in that regard. But, on the other hand, not sure PP brings back anyone better than Blake Griffin - so maybe better just to hold onto him for insurance as he is at least playable and can give some minutes if one of our top 3 guards are out.

Teams may view Pritchard as a young, cheap, adept ball handler, that is a 41% 3pt shooter that just needs minutes. He also comes with 29 games of playoff experience.

The road to a '23 FRP goes through: Utah and Indiana
1. Indiana owns 3 FRPs (own, BOS, CLV). They could use 3pt shooting on their 2nd unit.
2. Utah owns 3 FRPs (own, BRK, MIN). Danny drafted & knows him. I could also see Utah trying to get a king's ransom for Clarkson* or even Conley with another contender (which would open up PG minutes)

Both teams are vying to make the playoffs and offering the 29th or 30th pick for Pritchard may hold interest to them. You can only develop so many late FRPs

As with all fake trades, small chance of happening

*As an aside, I wonder how many future Miami picks & swaps Danny could wring out of Pat Riley to take his Duncan Robinson nightmare away, while giving up either Clarkson or Conley. Miami is desperate for POINTZ

 

[the moops]

I mean you could take back a first (hopefully) which they could use in the offseason to add some depth.

I can't see any chance that someone gives up a first for Payton Pritchard. Maybe Pritchard and a BOS first for a better first?

 

[benhogan]

I can't see any chance that someone gives up a first for Payton Pritchard. Maybe Pritchard and a BOS first for a better first?

along the same lines, Pritchard + '23 Houston 2nd (although its 31/32 protected) could land them that better first

 

[Jimbodandy]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to fuck with the depth on the team right now. This is like a "we have too many starting pitchers" problem.

 

[benhogan]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to fuck with the depth on the team right now. This is like a "we have too many starting pitchers" problem.

happens every April by June were starting Seabold against the MFY

PBS probably only would do it at the trade deadline, thought JDD or a veteran could slide into the 4th PG spot, and wanted to give PP a chance to shine elsewhere (Karalis discussed this theory recently).

Summer Brad with an FRP is lethal

 

[Jimbodandy]

happens every April by June were starting Seabold against the MFY

PBS probably only would do it at the trade deadline, thought JDD or a veteran could slide into the 4th PG spot, and wanted to give PP a chance to shine elsewhere (Karalis discussed this theory recently).

Summer Brad with an FRP is lethal

I get it. I'm just not on board.

PP isn't just 4th PG. He's also backup shooter. And maybe still extraneous. But I'm looking for an upgrade somewhere, not just a FRP. The right fit, I'm all for it.

 

[benhogan]

I get it. I'm just not on board.

PP isn't just 4th PG. He's also backup shooter. And maybe still extraneous. But I'm looking for an upgrade somewhere, not just a FRP. The right fit, I'm all for it.

It's totally fair to not want PP moved, since he was the best 3pt shooter in the NBA after the midway point last season. Which I'm sure isn't lost on Will/Danny.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to fuck with the depth on the team right now. This is like a "we have too many starting pitchers" problem.

100% agree. This isn’t a Rozier situation where we have to play him, bc he’s really good, but when we play him he’s looking to drop 20 in 14 min each night to get paid this summer. There is no doubt that Pritchard feels he should be out there 20-25 mpg but he’s less likely to change his game when he’s called upon as he recognizes what he brings to the table.

This is an 82-game season with (hopefully) another 20 or so in the post-season…….there will be times we need Pritchard to contribute due to injury, load mgmt, etc and if we move him we are immediately looking for someone to replace him in a unique role. The other thing is that as a diminutive low-upside player nobody of a sane mind would give up a 1st rounder or even a high 2nd for the same production you can get from a low-level FA in the summer. Throw in the caveat that Pritchard’s value to another team would be that of a contender……why would we want to add even bench depth to a team we are competing against this spring? It doesn’t make any sense trading him unless he comes to them with a demand……which I wouldn’t expect at least until this summer prior to his contract year.

 

[DJnVa]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to fuck with the depth on the team right now. This is like a "we have too many starting pitchers" problem.

I don't think anyone really wants to. There was just a story that folks were "interested" in Pritchard.

 

[Devizier]

Pritch could probably get a late first if some team wants him. The problem is that people tend to overrate what you get with a late first. Pritchard isn’t a best case scenario but he’s certainly a better than average case one.

ETA what @HomeRunBaker said about who might want him and why the Celtics shouldn’t be in that business

 

[HomeRunBaker]

If we’re going to throw names around if players to replace Pritchard or be swapped for him I read somewhere the other day of Justin Holiday who would seem to be both the level of player we’d look to add as well as the skillset to fit with our system.

 

[benhogan]

If we’re going to throw names around if players to replace Pritchard or be swapped for him I read somewhere the other day of Justin Holiday who would seem to be both the level of player we’d look to add as well as the skillset to fit with our system.

33-yr-old Justin Holiday for Pritchard? what a waste of money, control and talent

let ATL pay his $6.3M fare

Holiday's experience should be his trump card but his 9 career playoff games where he has scored a total of 32pts tells me he'd be nothing more than an upgrade over Justin Jackson

PP can stay if that was the only thing offered

 

[InstaFace]

Pritchard drawing some trade interest

It's an interesting spot to be in, because the deep seems so deep that I'm not sure how someone like Pritchard could bring back an asset that would crack the rotation or be anything more than he is now.

I have to imaging Pritchard has more value to us as rotation / rest for the main 3 guards than he would to most other teams. If you have a big role for a guy like him, your team is probably bad, and if you're a contender you're probably not giving him a bigger role than he has with us, and either way he's not someone you trade a lot for.

Who would become our rotation guard on a night when one of Smart / White / Brogdon are resting (or, god forbid, injured)? JDD?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

33-yr-old Justin Holiday for Pritchard? what a waste of money, control and talent

let ATL pay his $6.3M fare

Holiday's experience should be his trump card but his 9 career playoff games where he has scored a total of 32pts tells me he'd be nothing more than an upgrade over Justin Jackson

PP can stay if that was the only thing offered

He’d actually be a better fit for bench minutes due to his defensive switchability and is a good 3-pt shooter so he’d be playable.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

He’d actually be a better fit for bench minutes due to his defensive switchability and is a good 3-pt shooter so he’d be playable.

It really feels like we have a difference of opinion about roster construction. I would bet that the Cs would do a trade like this simply because Holiday is a better fit for the current Cs team than Pritchard right now.

While teams probably never want to completely dismiss factors like age and contract status, the Cs are at the point where worrying about them is beside the point. They are trying to win right now so they should be looking to shed a younger player like Pritchard who has little value to this year's team in lieu of experienced veterans.

In short, imo the Cs are at the part of their window where they need to pay up for incremental improvements. Maybe that means trading a young player for a crusty vet or moving a valuable player for a better fit. Maybe they do nothing at all. But while nobody should be mortgaging the teams future, the time for trying to win deals is over. They need as much talent as they can afford to carry. They are price takers imo.

 

[joe dokes]

While teams probably never want to completely dismiss factors like age and contract status, the Cs are at the point where worrying about them is beside the point. They are trying to win right now so they should be looking to shed a younger player like Pritchard who has little value to this year's team in lieu of experienced veterans.

In short, imo the Cs are at the part of their window where they need to pay up for incremental improvements. Maybe that means trading a young player for a crusty vet or moving a valuable player for a better fit. Maybe they do nothing at all. But while nobody should be mortgaging the teams future, the time for trying to win deals is over. They need as much talent as they can afford to carry. They are price takers imo.

Dead on. The PJ Brown/James Posey window is open.
What does this team need? A better Hauser guy? A better Kornet guy?

 

[Strike4]

the time for trying to win deals is over

This is a great phrase, like something from mob movie.

 

[benhogan]

He’d actually be a better fit for bench minutes due to his defensive switchability and is a good 3-pt shooter so he’d be playable.

No need to trade for him. Just pick him up once he gets released in FEB.

He's not even part of a 17-18 Atlanta rotation, he's certainly not cracking Boston's. The dude is crispy.

Go get Burks if you want a bucket form the bench.

 

[The Mort Report]

PP's contract also jumps to just a hair over 4 million next year. His salary in another Brogdon like trade may be more valuable than either a pick or player he returns on his own. But yeah I also can't see them doing anything til the deadline regardless. There is no need great enough right now to try and "fix" when who knows what are the team's needs come the deadline

 

[chilidawg]

Dead on. The PJ Brown/James Posey window is open.
What does this team need? A better Hauser guy? A better Kornet guy?

I'm pretty happy with Kornet as the 3rd big. Upgrading a reserve shooting wing might be come necessary if Hauser's shot doesn't return. I'm betting it does.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

No need to trade for him. Just pick him up once he gets released in FEB.

He's not even part of a 17-18 Atlanta rotation, he's certainly not cracking Boston's. The dude is crispy.

Go get Burks if you want a bucket form the bench.

He’s not “crispy”…..he’s playing behind Trae, Dejounte and Bogdanovich.

 

[benhogan]

He’s not “crispy”…..he’s playing behind Trae, Dejounte and Bogdanovich.

I'll have to keep an eye on him

BUT he's really struggling to get minutes with the Hawks, #11 in MPG, and trending lower.

 

[benhogan]

nm

 

[DGreenwood]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTnzjJmLK7g&ab_channel=NBA

 

[lovegtm]

My lazy takes:

1. The Clippers, when whole, are very very good.

2. This is what the Christmas Bucks game would have looked like if 3s hadn't been falling.

 

[joe dokes]

My lazy takes:

1. The Clippers, when whole, are very very good.

We should never take for granted the advantage that a JT/JB led Celtics have -- youth.
The Celtics are much more likely to be "whole" than teams dependent on the over-30 crowd. It *could* all come together for LAC or the Nets in June, like it did for GS last year. But they have a lot more finger-crossing to do.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to fuck with the depth on the team right now. This is like a "we have too many starting pitchers" problem.

I'm happy to see that this sentiment is more popular than the alternative. Keep PP please.

 

[bosockboy]

We are 19th in rebounding. Not a fatal flaw but it’s a weakness. I still want Poeltl to keep Rob’s minutes shorter and impactful and as the heir to Al. PP/Gallo/1st would possibly do it.

 

[djbayko]

We are 19th in rebounding. Not a fatal flaw but it’s a weakness. I still want Poeltl to keep Rob’s minutes shorter and impactful and as the heir to Al. PP/Gallo/1st would possibly do it.

And you want to trade away our best rebounder off the bench???

 

[HomeRunBaker]

My lazy takes:

1. The Clippers, when whole, are very very good.

2. This is what the Christmas Bucks game would have looked like if 3s hadn't been falling.

My lazy take…..

We watched The NBA Finals preview last night.

 

[bosockboy]

And you want to trade away our best rebounder off the bench???

Didn’t realize that about Pritchard, but he barely plays, so yes I’m completely comfortable turning PP into Poeltl.

 

[djbayko]

Didn’t realize that about Pritchard, but he barely plays, so yes I’m completely comfortable turning PP into Poeltl.

My comment was tongue in cheek. He does seem to have a nose for the ball and people joke in game threads about how coach puts him in when they need some help on the boards.

 

[benhogan]

My lazy take…..

We watched The NBA Finals preview last night.

Agreed, looked like that. It all comes down to health (Curry/Wiggins vs PG/Kawhi) in the West.

Obviously, LA/Boston are similar, two impactful WINGS with a bunch of good role players surrounding them.
With TL finally getting healthier, the Celtics hold the advantage on the defensive side of the floor. The Horford/TL group looked dominant in the first half. Even though I'm a TL/AL shrink-wrap proponent, want to see that Double BIG lineup more often (which leads to more mins for Luke)

The Celtics get several days off before the Denver game, which has led to 6 straight Celtic losses. Boston looks out of rhythm on those multiple days off this season (1-6). 10 of their next 13 on the road over the course of 24 days. The bench will get lots of use over that stretch. Those 3 home games: Chicago, NOLA, and GS will not be cupcakes. An interesting part of the schedule.

John Karalis brought up two points about how the Celtics were coached last night:
1. JAY minutes - less is probably wiser over the season
2. Timeout use - Jaylen unprompted, said the TO was a good way to re-organize the group

Starts at 22:15

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFgTlwbnKos

 

[The Social Chair]

I wouldn't hate if Joe's eye needs a couple of weeks to recover. It would be nice to evaluate another option for the permanent gig.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Two notable things about Jaylen Brown:

1. Lately, Brown rather than Tatum has been the starter on the floor with the bench group in the late 3rd/early 4th quarter and that has been working out well. If first noticed this in the Minnesota game, when Tatum and most of the starters closed out the third and then Brown and the bench (mosrtly brown) below the game open in the 4th. But Stoudamire has done the same thing in both games he has coached.

2. Brown's percentage of FGA by distance is almost eerily right on point with his career averages, with one notable difference:

• 3-point FGA: 36.8% this year, 36.9% career
• 0-3 ft FGA: 24.3% this year, 26.6% career
• 3-10 ft FGA: 19.6% this year, 19.5% career
• 10-16 ft FGA: 9.6% this year, 9.3% career
• 16- <3P FGA: 9.7% this year, 7.7% career

He's taking ~2% more long 2s and ~2% fewer shots at the rim.

But what is amazing about Jaylen's year is that he is shooting better than ever before at most distances, other than from three.

• 3-point FG%: 33.1% this year, 36.8% career
• 0-3 ft FGA: 73.5% this year (76.5% last year), 68.4% career
• 3-10 ft FGA: 45.3% this year (career best), 41.5% career
• 10-16 ft FGA: 53.7% this year (career best), 46.7% career
• 16- <3P FGA: 52.9% this year (career best), 42.9% career

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I wouldn't hate if Joe's eye needs a couple of weeks to recover. It would be nice to evaluate another option for the permanent gig.

Unless Joe becomes fascinated with one of his female co-workers I’d be confident in saying that there is close to 0% chance Brad would remove the one stable piece of the coaching staff since prior to the Ime era when you factor in what this core has endured over the last 6 months. You have to remember that Joe was a Brad hire and the one guy that he insisted Ime retain. It’s his job.

 

[mcpickl]

He’s not “crispy”…..he’s playing behind Trae, Dejounte and Bogdanovich.

Are you talking about Aaron Holiday, not Justin?

Justin hasn't been affected by those three guys, he's losing his role to AJ Griffin.

Justin is the exact type of guy I'd be looking to add as a deep bench guy, but wouldn't trade an asset for him.

I'd be waiting for a similar guy on a trash team to get bought out in February

 

[Reverend]

oops

 

[The Social Chair]

Unless Joe becomes fascinated with one of his female co-workers I’d be confident in saying that there is close to 0% chance Brad would remove the one stable piece of the coaching staff since prior to the Ime era when you factor in what this core has endured over the last 6 months. You have to remember that Joe was a Brad hire and the one guy that he insisted Ime retain. It’s his job.

Cool. More data points on the effect of not talking to your team during time outs.

I would hope Brad doesn't name a permanent coach until the end of the season, but maybe Joe is our Spoelstra. We'll see!

 

[jimv]

Dead on. The PJ Brown/James Posey window is open.
What does this team need? A better Hauser guy? A better Kornet guy?

I don't think you can have the needs conversation in a vacuum - what team(s) might you face in the ECF? What are the matchups that you could improve on? Consider past examples, DJ was brought on as a Toney stopper and turned out to be pretty good versus Magic as well. PJ Brown/Posey were signed because the team needed physical, veteran defenders who could hit a jumper when they matched up with Lebron or Detroit in the playoffs

So who are the most dangerous eastern conference opponents - the Bucks are certainly in that group. The Nets? 76ers? Heat?

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

We are 19th in rebounding. Not a fatal flaw but it’s a weakness. I still want Poeltl to keep Rob’s minutes shorter and impactful and as the heir to Al. PP/Gallo/1st would possibly do it.

Are they? I see them as 4th in D rebounds and 11th overall. Considering the pupu platter of size we had replacing RW3 when he was out, adding another 4-5 rebounds a game for our athletic big that averaged almost 10 per game last season would put them as one of the best rebounding teams in the league.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Are you talking about Aaron Holiday, not Justin?

Justin hasn't been affected by those three guys, he's losing his role to AJ Griffin.

Justin is the exact type of guy I'd be looking to add as a deep bench guy, but wouldn't trade an asset for him.

I'd be waiting for a similar guy on a trash team to get bought out in February

Oh definitely meaning as a deep bench guy to fill Pritchard’s role “if” we were to move him. As an aside, AJ Griffin is really good at basketball.

 

[benhogan]

Oh definitely meaning as a deep bench guy to fill Pritchard’s role “if” we were to move him. As an aside, AJ Griffin is really good at basketball.

Wouldn't you rather chase a guy like Javonte Green for that role (once CHI finally checks out)?

He's much more of a Brad-type than Justin Holiday

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Wouldn't you rather chase a guy like Javonte Green for that role (once CHI finally checks out)?

He's much more of a Brad-type than Justin Holiday

I don’t think Green is realistic as he comes cheap to the Bulls, who will likely be in the playoff hunt to the end, and is a key guy in their rotation. Holiday has no role in Indiana, is also a UFA this summer, and making $6m to sit on the bench. He’s almost certainly going to end up elsewhere as bench depth even if it’s for the Pacers to shed salary.

 

[Smokey Joe]

I don’t think Green is realistic as he comes cheap to the Bulls, who will likely be in the playoff hunt to the end, and is a key guy in their rotation. Holiday has no role in Indiana, is also a UFA this summer, and making $6m to sit on the bench. He’s almost certainly going to end up elsewhere as bench depth even if it’s for the Pacers to shed salary.

And the Pacers are going to shed salary so they can distribute more money to the other team members to make it to the salary floor?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

And the Pacers are going to shed salary so they can distribute more money to the other team members to make it to the salary floor?

Heh! Didn’t realize that any teams were below the floor.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

They can use that as part of extending Myles Turner for more years of trade rumors!

 

[benhogan]

And the Pacers are going to shed salary so they can distribute more money to the other team members to make it to the salary floor?

The Pacers sharing money, with a Justin Holiday move, would be impressive since he played with them 2 teams ago.

The Indiana Justin Holiday that was decent 3-4 years ago isn't coming back. Maybe that player is what is etched in the minds

 

[bosockboy]

Are they? I see them as 4th in D rebounds and 11th overall. Considering the pupu platter of size we had replacing RW3 when he was out, adding another 4-5 rebounds a game for our athletic big that averaged almost 10 per game last season would put them as one of the best rebounding teams in the league.

Was going on this, admittedly not sure if it’s accuracy.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/total-rebounds-per-game