2022-2023 General Celtics thread

reggiecleveland

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JB and JT are both setting career highs in minutes per game so far.
Not to rain on the parade but this is a common new coach strategy, that may not be best long term. A new coach is thinking short term so rides the stars hard and gets wins. It is really easy to leave Tatum out there since he is so flexible.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Not to rain on the parade but this is a common new coach strategy, that may not be best long term. A new coach is thinking short term so rides the stars hard and gets wins. It is really easy to leave Tatum out there since he is so flexible.
We haven’t had a long road trip yet, the closest being the 2-games in Florida with a stop in Chicago on the way back…..and that was followed by 3 days off. The only other B2B was a cakewalk in Detroit without Cade.

He’s also been (quietly) load managing on the B2B games. These guys aren’t old. Doc began his tenure by playing our Big 3 40+ minutes in the first couple games to build his vision and that worked out even with old legs. Once the scheduling and travel toughens up that’s when a coach is going to rely on his bench for longer chunks of minutes.
 

BaseballJones

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Bruins: league-best 14-2, demolishing opponents left and right. But their core is older: Bergeron (37), Krejci (36), and Marchand (34). Even their "young" studs aren't exactly young anymore: Pastrnak (26) and McAvoy (25).

Celtics: second in the NBA at 10-3, on a six-game winning streak. Their core is younger: Tatum (24) and Brown (26).

Hard to say which team is the best in the city right now.
 

Euclis20

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Bruins: league-best 14-2, demolishing opponents left and right. But their core is older: Bergeron (37), Krejci (36), and Marchand (34). Even their "young" studs aren't exactly young anymore: Pastrnak (26) and McAvoy (25).

Celtics: second in the NBA at 10-3, on a six-game winning streak. Their core is younger: Tatum (24) and Brown (26).

Hard to say which team is the best in the city right now.
The Celtics two best players are younger than the top 2 on most teams, but on average, they no longer have a young team. Their average age (27.48 per NBA.com) has them as the 7th oldest team in the league. It's amazing to look at our roster and realize that Tatum is the 2nd youngest player (not counting Davison on his 2 way contract). That both speaks to how young Tatum still is AND the fact that our roster on the whole isn't filled with guys in their early to mid 20s any more.

The average age of our top 10 guys (top 9 in minutes so far, plus Robert Williams) is 27.3. The average of the top 10 guys in Brad Stevens' last year as coach was 25.3, the average age of the top 10 guys that took Lebron to 7 games in 2018 was 24.9. This isn't a bad thing, but other than Tatum (and maybe Timelord), this team is filled with guys who are as good as they're gonna get.
 

lovegtm

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The Celtics two best players are younger than the top 2 on most teams, but on average, they no longer have a young team. Their average age (27.48 per NBA.com) has them as the 7th oldest team in the league. It's amazing to look at our roster and realize that Tatum is the 2nd youngest player (not counting Davison on his 2 way contract). That both speaks to how young Tatum still is AND the fact that our roster on the whole isn't filled with guys in their early to mid 20s any more.

The average age of our top 10 guys (top 9 in minutes so far, plus Robert Williams) is 27.3. The average of the top 10 guys in Brad Stevens' last year as coach was 25.3, the average age of the top 10 guys that took Lebron to 7 games in 2018 was 24.9. This isn't a bad thing, but other than Tatum (and maybe Timelord), this team is filled with guys who are as good as they're gonna get.
It's true that most guys other than TL and Grant don't have improvement left, but it's also true that the Celtics own all their picks after 2023. Tatum and Brown fit perfectly with literally anyone, so you can use those picks to get good-but-not-great players to fill any holes. Getting Brogdon for a bad 1st to fill the hole at guard creator is a great example of that.

Hitting on TL, Grant and Hauser in the draft also helps a lot, since you at least have good guys at a reasonable cost already on the team.
 

Jimbodandy

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It's true that most guys other than TL and Grant don't have improvement left, but it's also true that the Celtics own all their picks after 2023. Tatum and Brown fit perfectly with literally anyone, so you can use those picks to get good-but-not-great players to fill any holes. Getting Brogdon for a bad 1st to fill the hole at guard creator is a great example of that.

Hitting on TL, Grant and Hauser in the draft also helps a lot, since you at least have good guys at a reasonable cost already on the team.
Yep. And frankly, having an average age of the minutes of ~27ish is in my "pro" column, not the "con" one. If the core players were over 30, maybe I'd be nervous. Outside of Al, no key players are.
 

JM3

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It's true that most guys other than TL and Grant don't have improvement left, but it's also true that the Celtics own all their picks after 2023. Tatum and Brown fit perfectly with literally anyone, so you can use those picks to get good-but-not-great players to fill any holes. Getting Brogdon for a bad 1st to fill the hole at guard creator is a great example of that.

Hitting on TL, Grant and Hauser in the draft also helps a lot, since you at least have good guys at a reasonable cost already on the team.
I generally agree, but some nitpicking:

1) They have their own 1sts after this year (with the exception of the '28 swap), but have no 2nds after this year until '29.

2) TL isn't on his rookie contract anymore & Grant is about to be off his after this season, & Hauser was a UDFA. After this season we are going to have no rookie contract guys except Hauser (& even his 3/$6m is technically his 2nd contract), Pritchard (1 more year at $4m), Davison (although his deal technically is a 1-year deal), & Begarin (who technically isn't under contract yet).

So things are going to be a bit rough in terms of cost-controlled talent. They should be fine, though, & it's not my $$$, but an influx of young talent should be necessary at some point.
 

Euclis20

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It's true that most guys other than TL and Grant don't have improvement left, but it's also true that the Celtics own all their picks after 2023. Tatum and Brown fit perfectly with literally anyone, so you can use those picks to get good-but-not-great players to fill any holes. Getting Brogdon for a bad 1st to fill the hole at guard creator is a great example of that.

Hitting on TL, Grant and Hauser in the draft also helps a lot, since you at least have good guys at a reasonable cost already on the team.
I didn't mean any of my post as a negative, just affirmation that the time is now. We aren't banking on future improvement to be a title contender, all we need is some luck (injury or otherwise).
 

Eddie Jurak

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In a perverse way (because I don't actually want to see it happen), I'm waiting for a defense-savant coach to come up with a way to blow it up once and steal two for his team.
One thing I expect to happen is that "blockers" may get themselves called for fouls. If they shift to stay in front of one of the other team and there is contact.
 

reggiecleveland

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We haven’t had a long road trip yet, the closest being the 2-games in Florida with a stop in Chicago on the way back…..and that was followed by 3 days off. The only other B2B was a cakewalk in Detroit without Cade.

He’s also been (quietly) load managing on the B2B games. These guys aren’t old. Doc began his tenure by playing our Big 3 40+ minutes in the first couple games to build his vision and that worked out even with old legs. Once the scheduling and travel toughens up that’s when a coach is going to rely on his bench for longer chunks of minutes.
I agree nothing to panic about.
 

lovegtm

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Nice to see them decide to play defense in the second half and ram it home. Another game that they would have lost this time last year.
They've done that a few times now recently: hold teams around 50 in the 2nd half after looking meh in the first half.

My takeaway is that they have the personnel to lock teams down, but don't have their foot on the defensive gas pedal until late. That seems generally better for a team that wants to make a deep run, because most teams play up to their defensive potential once the playoffs start, so just having that potential matters.

Really night and day from last year's team in crunch time. That team was bad late in the first half of the season, and then never had crunch time the 2nd half.
 

lovegtm

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I generally agree, but some nitpicking:

1) They have their own 1sts after this year (with the exception of the '28 swap), but have no 2nds after this year until '29.

2) TL isn't on his rookie contract anymore & Grant is about to be off his after this season, & Hauser was a UDFA. After this season we are going to have no rookie contract guys except Hauser (& even his 3/$6m is technically his 2nd contract), Pritchard (1 more year at $4m), Davison (although his deal technically is a 1-year deal), & Begarin (who technically isn't under contract yet).

So things are going to be a bit rough in terms of cost-controlled talent. They should be fine, though, & it's not my $$$, but an influx of young talent should be necessary at some point.
I shall agree with your points, and nitpick right back!

"Being on rookie contract" isn't the right way to assess cost control: 2nd rounders and UDFAs who go to RFA before their first deal almost never get more money than a first rounder's deal. Pritchard will make more next year than Hauser got guaranteed. Same will be true for Davison and Begarin if/when they sign.

Now, I agree that finding 2nd rounders cheap isn't a super sustainable strategy, but if the Celtics hit on a couple (and Hauser is already a hit imo), it's huge for cost control.

TL's contract is so cheap that it's not tons more than a high 1st rounder gets guaranteed (Banchero's is more money actually, but obv that's only the #1 pick), so that's a different, useful form of cost control.

Now, is an influx of young talent necessary, on a team that has Tatum/Brown + depth or 3rd star? Milwaukee has had basically no young talent forever now: complete wasteland (outside of Brogdon and DiVincenzo if you squint) during what's been a really good run. If you have a top-3 player, and 2 other really good guys, you can go quite far while missing tons of drafts and giving up picks. The Warriors did a similar thing in terms of vet reclamation to maintain a run around a superstar (they did draft Poole).

Is young talent desirable? Of course, but if you have holes and need to deal some late 1sts to get a couple high-quality vets making ~15-18% of the cap (Brogdon, White, Smart), you do it in a heartbeat.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Yesterday was one of those wins that could easily have been a loss. OKC was playing hard and the Celtics looked out of sorts, especially defensively, especially in the first half. The Celtics would fall behind, go on a short run to catch up, and then fall behind again. OKC was getting into the paint and getting a lot of wide open threes, while the Celtics were bricking a lot of early clock threes.

With less then 3 minutes to go in the third, the Celtics fell behind by 12 and Mazzulla put Pritchard in for Smart. Keyed by him and Derrick White, the cranked up the defense and went on an 8-3 run to close out the quarter. Defensive pressure from the Celtics firced a lot of OKC turnovers and let the Celtics climb back into this one.

Marcus Smart had had a terrible first half (2 points, 3 fouls, and a -17 in 12 minutes). He was better in the third, leading the Celtics in scoring in the quarter with 10 points on 4-7 shooting. Then, with about 6 minutes to go in the 4th and the Celtics down by 2, he just took over the game. SGA misses a shot, Smart grabs a key rebound leading to a Brown missed three. Smart pressures SGA bring the ball up and SGA commits an offensive foul (embellished by Smart). On the ensuing possession, OKC drops into a 1-2-2 zone, and Smart zips one in to Tatum in a soft spot for an easy dunk to tie the game at 107. Smart is fouled on the next possession and hits one of 2. After an SGA "and one" puts OKC back ahead, Smart goes into the post and hits a 9-footer to tie again. After a free throw and a layup by Tatum gets the lead up to 3, SGA scores to cut it to one. OKC has a good defensive series, but the Celtics manage to kick it to Smart in the corner for a late clock, foot on the line, 2, to increase the lead to 3. Then Tatum tries to drive and the ball is knocked away... but Smart recoveres the loose ball and drills a three (his only 3 of the game, on 2 attempts). Smart adds a layup and 2 assists to White in the final minutes to keep the Celtics ahead. FInishes with 22 points, 5 rebounds, 8 assists, 3 turnovers. He said that omn the sidlelines, Blake told him that there were opportunities in the post for him, and that is indeed where he was most effective.

Tatum shot poorly (9 of 23 and 1 of 9 from three, but got to the line 10 times) and scored 27 points, 10 rebounds, an assist, 3 steals, and 3 blocks. Brown scored 26 on 11-21 shooting (0-5 from three) and added 6 rebonds and 6 assists but also tunred it over 5 times. Horford had a 12-11 double double and added 4 assists. Grant was nothing special in this one.

Derrick White and Paytom Pritchard were the key guys in this game who helped turn the team around. In 33 minutes, White had 16 points on 5-9 shooting, plus 5 assists and a team-leading 4 steals. Pritchard had 10 points, 4 rebounds, and a pair of steals. Hauser's shooting struggles continue (he airballed a three), but he shot 2 of 5 from three overall. Kornet and Vinleh did not play much or accomplish much.

The officiating was lousy in this game, highlighted by a quick technical on Tatum that will surely be rescinded.
 

Mooch

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Tatum’s defense last night in the 4th quarter was really excellent. He’s a pit bull out there in closing minutes. Very impressive on a night where his shot wasn’t dropping.
 

kfoss99

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Yesterday's game reminded me of when the C's were bad and the Spurs would come to town. The Celtics would get a 10-point lead going into the fourth having dominated the game, then the Spurs would turn it on and win. Now, it looks like we're the Duncan-era Spurs.
 

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Yeah, I went to a bunch of those games. It took the better part of a season for me to realize that all those close games that the Celtics lost involved teams that weren't really trying until the last 5 minutes. Those great Ricky Davis years, how much I enjoyed them!
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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The average age of our top 10 guys (top 9 in minutes so far, plus Robert Williams) is 27.3. The average of the top 10 guys in Brad Stevens' last year as coach was 25.3, the average age of the top 10 guys that took Lebron to 7 games in 2018 was 24.9. This isn't a bad thing, but other than Tatum (and maybe Timelord), this team is filled with guys who are as good as they're gonna get.
It's amazing how POBOBS has reshaped the roster. IIRC, at the beginning of last season, the VCs had something like the 5th youngest roster in the league. That's not typically how teams win big in the NBA. Also, love how instead of adding ring chasers in their 30s, POBOS has IDd and added players in their 20s to the core.

Fun to watch. Fun also not to have to read "What's wrong with JT" posts after he goes 1-9 from 3P. :)
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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Yeah, I went to a bunch of those games. It took the better part of a season for me to realize that all those close games that the Celtics lost involved teams that weren't really trying until the last 5 minutes. Those great Ricky Davis years, how much I enjoyed them!
Doc is going to unlock Michael Olowokandi as a defensive stopper!
 

Jimbodandy

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Yesterday was one of those wins that could easily have been a loss. OKC was playing hard and the Celtics looked out of sorts, especially defensively, especially in the first half. The Celtics would fall behind, go on a short run to catch up, and then fall behind again. OKC was getting into the paint and getting a lot of wide open threes, while the Celtics were bricking a lot of early clock threes.

With less then 3 minutes to go in the third, the Celtics fell behind by 12 and Mazzulla put Pritchard in for Smart. Keyed by him and Derrick White, the cranked up the defense and went on an 8-3 run to close out the quarter. Defensive pressure from the Celtics firced a lot of OKC turnovers and let the Celtics climb back into this one.

Marcus Smart had had a terrible first half (2 points, 3 fouls, and a -17 in 12 minutes). He was better in the third, leading the Celtics in scoring in the quarter with 10 points on 4-7 shooting. Then, with about 6 minutes to go in the 4th and the Celtics down by 2, he just took over the game. SGA misses a shot, Smart grabs a key rebound leading to a Brown missed three. Smart pressures SGA bring the ball up and SGA commits an offensive foul (embellished by Smart). On the ensuing possession, OKC drops into a 1-2-2 zone, and Smart zips one in to Tatum in a soft spot for an easy dunk to tie the game at 107. Smart is fouled on the next possession and hits one of 2. After an SGA "and one" puts OKC back ahead, Smart goes into the post and hits a 9-footer to tie again. After a free throw and a layup by Tatum gets the lead up to 3, SGA scores to cut it to one. OKC has a good defensive series, but the Celtics manage to kick it to Smart in the corner for a late clock, foot on the line, 2, to increase the lead to 3. Then Tatum tries to drive and the ball is knocked away... but Smart recoveres the loose ball and drills a three (his only 3 of the game, on 2 attempts). Smart adds a layup and 2 assists to White in the final minutes to keep the Celtics ahead. FInishes with 22 points, 5 rebounds, 8 assists, 3 turnovers. He said that omn the sidlelines, Blake told him that there were opportunities in the post for him, and that is indeed where he was most effective.

Tatum shot poorly (9 of 23 and 1 of 9 from three, but got to the line 10 times) and scored 27 points, 10 rebounds, an assist, 3 steals, and 3 blocks. Brown scored 26 on 11-21 shooting (0-5 from three) and added 6 rebonds and 6 assists but also tunred it over 5 times. Horford had a 12-11 double double and added 4 assists. Grant was nothing special in this one.

Derrick White and Paytom Pritchard were the key guys in this game who helped turn the team around. In 33 minutes, White had 16 points on 5-9 shooting, plus 5 assists and a team-leading 4 steals. Pritchard had 10 points, 4 rebounds, and a pair of steals. Hauser's shooting struggles continue (he airballed a three), but he shot 2 of 5 from three overall. Kornet and Vinleh did not play much or accomplish much.

The officiating was lousy in this game, highlighted by a quick technical on Tatum that will surely be rescinded.
Nice recap.

Regarding officiating (FWIW), this was another game with just terrible officiating. I don't know whether they flipped a bunch of refs this year or if it's just weird points of emphasis, but the bizarre travels and wild swings between calling touch fouls and "no blood/no foul" during the game has become a thing. There was some talk about how the refs must be doing a good job because both teams are furious, and this is misguided imo. It wasn't a case of everyone being pissed that the refs were overcalling moving screens above the circle (clear emphasis this year). This was another game where everyone on the court is confused all night as to where the line is. Like five minutes after Tatum's technical, Poku did the exact same thing within a few feet of a ref. Phantom foul calls, followed by guys getting wrecked with no call. Didn't help either team, but it also didn't help the product. There have been a few of these already this year.
 

benhogan

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Also, love how instead of adding ring chasers in their 30s, POBOS has IDd and added players in their 20s to the core.
the White trade is very underrated.

Instead of trading for a 1yr Ring Chaser. Brad gets 3.5 seasons of White during his peak seasons (27-30). That's really good value from a late first + swap + cheaply signed JRich + the oft-injured Romeo.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Id be super-impressed if they assessed the ref a fine for the rescinded tech, like the player has to pay for a real one. (thought not the same amount. 2k on a ref salary is probably too high).
Depends what he's betting on the games, doesn't it?
 

lovegtm

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I'm going to do a bit of a devil's advocate for why the Celtics pre-4th quarter defensive struggles are akshually a good thing.

To start, imagine I told you that Team X (let's say the Bucks, or the Heat, or the Suns, or the Warriors) were 11-3, with the #1 offense by a mile, #1 point differential, and the #22 defense (per cleaningtheglass). They've been great in the 4th on D to win a lot of games, but bad to start.

I then proceed to tell you that I think the Celtics are going to wipe the floor with Team X come playoff time, because we'd target the shit out of their weak defense, and their inconsistency on that end would come back to bite them.

You'd laugh at me, and tell me that I was looking through green-colored glasses, that the NBA regular season is mostly meaningless aside from habits formed, and that Team X had been to the Finals recently and knew how to turn it up on when it counted. Because everyone turns up D in the playoffs, especially teams that have the talent and coaching on that end to do so.

Given that, isn't it kind of a good thing that the Celtics are getting tons of reps on the most important NBA team skill: executing on both ends in crunch time? Last year's team didn't get that experience in the 2nd half, particularly on offense, and it definitely seemed to hurt them when playoff time came around.

Not only that, but grinding on defense every possession is the most mentally and physically demanding part of NBA basketball. If the team can avoid that for 82 games, isn't that a good thing, given last year's fatigue issues?
 

benhogan

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I'm going to do a bit of a devil's advocate for why the Celtics pre-4th quarter defensive struggles are akshually a good thing.

To start, imagine I told you that Team X (let's say the Bucks, or the Heat, or the Suns, or the Warriors) were 11-3, with the #1 offense by a mile, #1 point differential, and the #22 defense (per cleaningtheglass). They've been great in the 4th on D to win a lot of games, but bad to start.

I then proceed to tell you that I think the Celtics are going to wipe the floor with Team X come playoff time, because we'd target the shit out of their weak defense, and their inconsistency on that end would come back to bite them.

You'd laugh at me, and tell me that I was looking through green-colored glasses, that the NBA regular season is mostly meaningless aside from habits formed, and that Team X had been to the Finals recently and knew how to turn it up on when it counted. Because everyone turns up D in the playoffs, especially teams that have the talent and coaching on that end to do so.

Given that, isn't it kind of a good thing that the Celtics are getting tons of reps on the most important NBA team skill: executing on both ends in crunch time? Last year's team didn't get that experience in the 2nd half, particularly on offense, and it definitely seemed to hurt them when playoff time came around.

Not only that, but grinding on defense every possession is the most mentally and physically demanding part of NBA basketball. If the team can avoid that for 82 games, isn't that a good thing, given last year's fatigue issues?
I think it's fair to say their defense will be TOP5 when TL is back and it matters (post-AS game/playoffs). The players have a track record individually/together.

More importantly, getting practice during crunch time was a point of weakness last season that needs work. The team benefits from the OKC late/close games. The Tatum or Brown ISO, dribblefests into a dug in half-court defense while the other 4 stand & watch late in games was predictable/inefficient last season. It led to turnovers and awkward shots. The team is cutting more while Smart/Brogdon drive into the lane to score, OR draw and kick. This has led to more efficient shots for the team.

I still scratch my head watching Jaylen Brown bring the ball up and initiate the offense from the top. He's the last guy that should be doing that. Unless the idea is to get him reps to work on his handle/passing OR there is some top-secret play they have devised to take advantage of a match-up 40' away from the basket. Jaylen (& Tatum) are better off moving, cutting, and using screens before they get the ball so they can attack a scrambling half-court defense.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Given that, isn't it kind of a good thing that the Celtics are getting tons of reps on the most important NBA team skill: executing on both ends in crunch time? Last year's team didn't get that experience in the 2nd half, particularly on offense, and it definitely seemed to hurt them when playoff time came around.
Watched the OKC last night and announcers said that Cs were something like 13-22 in close games last year. Plus they said that the Cs were the worst in some statistical category of all playoff teams in crunch time during the playoffs.

This year I guess they are 6-2, with both losses coming against CLE in overtime. Apparently, one of their biggest improvements is FG%, where they have gone from40% to 53%. https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2022/11/15/eye-opening-improvement-boston-celtics/

I for one am glad that they are getting reps executing during crunch time. I also think that it's interesting how OKC also decided to go iso-ball down the stretch (with SGA versus Al a few times) and ended up losing, just like the Cs did in the first half of last season.

As a side note - it was very heartening to see Al keep in front of SGA and force two difficult shots (both misses) when he was ISOd in the 4Q. Maybe Al just needed some regular season games to get into game shape.
 

bigq

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As a side note - it was very heartening to see Al keep in front of SGA and force two difficult shots (both misses) when he was ISOd in the 4Q. Maybe Al just needed some regular season games to get into game shape.
I agree that it is great to see Al playing well and he is so important to this Celtics team particularly with TL out. I would think that as a competitor Al would have some discomfort with his time in OKC and as a result has a bit of an extra bounce in his step when he faces them. He probably relishes the opportunity to beat that team or at least I would if I were in his shoes.
 

HomeRunBaker

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As a side note - it was very heartening to see Al keep in front of SGA and force two difficult shots (both misses) when he was ISOd in the 4Q. Maybe Al just needed some regular season games to get into game shape.
More than a side note imo. I’ve been saying since Al was here the first time how he projects to age very well based on his style of play being savvy based while not relying on athleticism that would be fading at his age.

Your final sentence speaks to many veteran bigs as they are the guys who don’t rely on speed/quickness and spend most of their offseason recuperating from the prior year rather than wear themselves down further in the summer. Right now he needs MORE minutes…..not less as some continue advocating for Al. They just don’t need to be on B2B.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Nice recap.

Regarding officiating (FWIW), this was another game with just terrible officiating. I don't know whether they flipped a bunch of refs this year or if it's just weird points of emphasis, but the bizarre travels and wild swings between calling touch fouls and "no blood/no foul" during the game has become a thing. There was some talk about how the refs must be doing a good job because both teams are furious, and this is misguided imo. It wasn't a case of everyone being pissed that the refs were overcalling moving screens above the circle (clear emphasis this year). This was another game where everyone on the court is confused all night as to where the line is. Like five minutes after Tatum's technical, Poku did the exact same thing within a few feet of a ref. Phantom foul calls, followed by guys getting wrecked with no call. Didn't help either team, but it also didn't help the product. There have been a few of these already this year.
The officiating early in the game was an absolute joke. I know people want Grant to shut up, but if the tech on Grant is the line in which you can't cross, guys like Embiid, Harden, Chris Paul, Lebron, Lowry, Draymond and many others would never finish an NBA game in their careers. The tech on Tatum shortly after that was a fucking joke. There were a number of other calls that were just completely egregious. The Grant thing interests me as it was the female ref that gave him the tech, and it was early, early, early. It seemed to me she was waiting for a reason, and as soon as she got one, the whistle came out. She made a few other really, really bad calls in the game, all against the C's, and I'm worried that Grant's ejection earlier in the season with the female ref is being talked about in their circles.

That said, something I noticed that probably wasn't on television was that during a television timeout in the 2nd quarter, Blake Griffin (who I don't remember ever getting in the game) spent the entire timeout over with the lead official at the scorer's desk in a very animated conversation. Things seem to noticeably settle down with the refs after that moment. Maybe Blake can't jump anymore, but he's bringing something to the team and locker room.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The officiating early in the game was an absolute joke. I know people want Grant to shut up, but if the tech on Grant is the line in which you can't cross, guys like Embiid, Harden, Chris Paul, Lebron, Lowry, Draymond and many others would never finish an NBA game in their careers. The tech on Tatum shortly after that was a fucking joke. There were a number of other calls that were just completely egregious. The Grant thing interests me as it was the female ref that gave him the tech, and it was early, early, early. It seemed to me she was waiting for a reason, and as soon as she got one, the whistle came out. She made a few other really, really bad calls in the game, all against the C's, and I'm worried that Grant's ejection earlier in the season with the female ref is being talked about in their circles.

That said, something I noticed that probably wasn't on television was that during a television timeout in the 2nd quarter, Blake Griffin (who I don't remember ever getting in the game) spent the entire timeout over with the lead official at the scorer's desk in a very animated conversation. Things seem to noticeably settle down with the refs after that moment. Maybe Blake can't jump anymore, but he's bringing something to the team and locker room.
The Blake addendum to Grant’s earlier T is a great example of how the human factor plays in issuing these T’s. The list you named are all veteran players who have built relationships with these officials over the years. Grant hasn’t yet built these relationships and cannot get away with what older more established players can. I really think it’s as simple as this.
 

bakahump

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Its funny because Grant Up until that T (so a few games this year and most of last year) was the Guy who seemed to have a "come on man! Nah you know that wasnt a foul....hahaha ok ok...but HE did THIS......no we good" relationship with the Refs. Tatum would throw up his hands. JB would scowl and jog down the other end, But Grant seemed like he could have a conversation. Which I thought was interesting for a young player which is why i noticed. All that good will seems to have been thrown out the window. At least with Women refs. Interesting that Scal referred to it without referring to it. "I think its the same Ref that threw him out earlier this year.....nope it wasnt her....". Evidently Grants "B****" ruffled some feathers.
 

lovegtm

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He comes up with us because he makes the most sense. From a salary perspective, you can match him with Gallo+PP (or vets), and not eat much tax. Next year, you can extend him and pay TL+Poeltl about what you pay Horford right now.

On the court, he lets you play the 4 shooters + elite defensive C look that is killer w a Tatum/Brown/Brogdon roster. You also can stop the 2 big stuff and just have 2 really good centers (plus maybe discount Horford) who alternate.

Finally, we know Brad likes quality vets in the 27-30 age range, and will give up draft assets to get that quality. Both White and Brogdon are at the top end of what you can get for a low 1st, and Poeltl would fit that same mold of being one of the best players available for a moderate trade price.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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He comes up with us because he makes the most sense. From a salary perspective, you can match him with Gallo+PP (or vets), and not eat much tax. Next year, you can extend him and pay TL+Poeltl about what you pay Horford right now.

On the court, he lets you play the 4 shooters + elite defensive C look that is killer w a Tatum/Brown/Brogdon roster. You also can stop the 2 big stuff and just have 2 really good centers (plus maybe discount Horford) who alternate.

Finally, we know Brad likes quality vets in the 27-30 age range, and will give up draft assets to get that quality. Both White and Brogdon are at the top end of what you can get for a low 1st, and Poeltl would fit that same mold of being one of the best players available for a moderate trade price.
I am down with all of the Poetl talk except that I think people should be prepared for a hefty asking price from the Spurs.

Perhaps I am wrong but given the scarcity of players with his profile (size, experience, age, contract status), the cost will be expensive, whatever that means to folks here, rather than moderate - the Cs are probably up against a few teams who can offer Poetl more minutes too so that may be a factor. It feels like most contenders can use that skill set.

Given that it feels like folks here generally overvalue draft capital and my preference for banners over binkies, I am fine if the Cs have to "pay up" for Poetl. But I strongly suspect that more than a few people will be surprised at the price tag. Or maybe it will just be me.
 

ifmanis5

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He'd be a good fit but agree with above. The price will be higher than you think. Also, they must be worried about TL's health which is sadly a legit concern. He's never been able to stay on the court.
 

lovegtm

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I am down with all of the Poetl talk except that I think people should be prepared for a hefty asking price from the Spurs.

Perhaps I am wrong but given the scarcity of players with his profile (size, experience, age, contract status), the cost will be expensive, whatever that means to folks here, rather than moderate - the Cs are probably up against a few teams who can offer Poetl more minutes too so that may be a factor. It feels like most contenders can use that skill set.

Given that it feels like folks here generally overvalue draft capital and my preference for banners over binkies, I am fine if the Cs have to "pay up" for Poetl. But I strongly suspect that more than a few people will be surprised at the price tag. Or maybe it will just be me.
Given his contract status and position, it's hard for me to see the price being more than a late 1st and filler, but maybe that sounds high to some people?
 

128

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I am down with all of the Poetl talk except that I think people should be prepared for a hefty asking price from the Spurs.

Perhaps I am wrong but given the scarcity of players with his profile (size, experience, age, contract status), the cost will be expensive, whatever that means to folks here, rather than moderate - the Cs are probably up against a few teams who can offer Poetl more minutes too so that may be a factor. It feels like most contenders can use that skill set.

Given that it feels like folks here generally overvalue draft capital and my preference for banners over binkies, I am fine if the Cs have to "pay up" for Poetl. But I strongly suspect that more than a few people will be surprised at the price tag. Or maybe it will just be me.
Agree with all of your points. Poetl could well be the piece that pushes the C's over the top, though, so I wouldn't necessarily blink at the price tag if I were the C's decision-makers.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Agree with all of your points. Poetl could well be the piece that pushes the C's over the top, though, so I wouldn't necessarily blink at the price tag if I were the C's decision-makers.
Agreed. This franchise should be in hard GFIN mode this year.
 

RorschachsMask

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Gallo couldn’t be traded to the Spurs I believe, so would have to be a three team trade.

But I listened to the podcast, and he actually didn’t connect the Celtics directly with Poetl. He said the name he keeps hearing in general around the league, is Poetl.
 

Jimbodandy

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Given his contract status and position, it's hard for me to see the price being more than a late 1st and filler, but maybe that sounds high to some people?
I think that people are reacting to the talk of two firsts. I'd do Gallo/PP plus a first. Probably worth it. A second first? Probably not.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I’ve been pessimistic on a TL return since watching his surgically repaired knee fail him in the playoffs……so this only further fuels my concern of us having already seen the best we’ll ever see of TL.
 

lexrageorge

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Gallo couldn’t be traded to the Spurs I believe, so would have to be a three team trade.

But I listened to the podcast, and he actually didn’t connect the Celtics directly with Poetl. He said the name he keeps hearing in general around the league, is Poetl.
There is nothing to prevent Gallo being traded to the Spurs. EDIT: I do not believe Gallinari's guarantee was reduced via the buyout, so there is nothing to prevent the Spurs from reacquiring him.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/07/spurs-officially-waive-danilo-gallinari.html

The $5MM partial guarantee on his $21.45MM salary for 2022/23 was increased to $13MM to help make the deal work, according to Marks.
 
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pjheff

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I’ve been pessimistic on a TL return since watching his surgically repaired knee fail him in the playoffs……so this only further fuels my concern of us having already seen the best we’ll ever see of TL.
I think Poetl would be intended as a long term replacement for Al, not Rob.
 

128

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Remember how the conventional wisdom held that the C's tumultuous offseason would cause them to struggle once the games began?

So much for that.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Hauser, Kornet and Pritchard shoot a combined 17-21 from the field tonight including 10-13 from 3. This bench brigade needs a nickname. Hmmmm…….

The White Out?