2021 Trade Deadline

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
29,167
306, row 14
Friedman mentions the Bruins on Hall...

If they trade Debrusk, can’t they protect 4D in the expansion draft? Could be worth it for the right player, someone like Hall could be an addition for this year and next with the expansion draft allowing him to come back afterward.

Debrusk and a second tier asset?
I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting trading DeBrusk+ for Hall? Or trade for Hall and then use DeBrusk+ for something else?

DeBrusk+ is an overpay for Hall. In a vacuum Hall is better than DeBrusk but he's a UFA, makes $8 million and is having a down year. From the reports out there, it seems unlikely that the Sabres even get a 1st for him. Not many teams even have the cap space to fit him in even with the Sabres retaining.

The latter scenario (trade for Hall; wheel DeBrusk elsewhere) is plausible. Ideally you'd send DeBrusk out for a similarly aged LHD. There are a few problems with this. First is DeBrusk himself is having a down year. I think teams would jump on him but would also want to rob the Bruins for him. Secondly, the expansion draft. If you're trading DeBrusk for a D (my spitball is Vince Dunn from STL) then you would want to protect the D coming back. Which puts you in the position of needing to protect 4 D (McAvoy, Grzelyck, Carlo, player X). That means you can only protect 4 F which would be Pastrnak, Bergeron, Marchand and Coyle. That leaves Hall exposed in this scenario. I guess they could wink wink, nudge nudge agree to an extension with Hall and not file it until after the expansion draft but that seems ripe for blowing up in their face. Some other team could get into his ear and then he's gone and you're back to searching around for F help.
 

veritas

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2009
3,105
Somerville, MA
As we saw last expansion draft, teams can negotiate exactly who will be selected in the expansion draft and not really worry about protecting players. The fact that some teams got absolutely fleeced by Vegas shouldn't stop anyone from that approach, on principle. That does require teams to have some leverage and not have obvious problems about who to protect.

But if they can acquire a good defenseman, just let them take Carlo, who cares. Or trade Carlo. Whatever, he's not good enough to be losing any sleep over. I'm pretty sure the team doesn't agree with me on Carlo's value though.
 

burstnbloom

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,192
I just really disagree with that. Carlo isn't my favorite player but he has a significant amount of value on the marketplace. It's not that you can't make moves because of expansion but you certainly need to consider the calculus. Adding a D with term will be expensive and have costly after effects, such as exposing Carlo. I don't think it is smart to just let Seattle take him, so certainly they'd have to compensate the club to take someone else but that compensation has to be compelling enough for them to forego the 24 RHD who i elite at eliminating opponents offensive chances (and his own teams). That likely costs a significant second asset and you have to consider that when making a trade.
 

Haunted

The Man in the Box
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2006
4,436
Put me down as absolutely not wanting to invest heavily into this team. The prospect cupboard is near bare and trading away draft picks certainly won't help that, and I feel like they're more than just a top 6 forward away from a Cup contender.

So to acquire a Palmieri or a Hall you'll need to give up picks and/or prospects and/or regular players. I don't want to trade picks, I don't think they have the prospect depth to make it happen and I feel that trading regular players would just create a new hole elsewhere.
 

burstnbloom

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,192
That's a weird deal for sure. I wouldn't have paid a 1st for Palmieri. Full retention on both players for a 1st certainly eludes to this being a serious buyers market. Zajac, in particular, is a head scratcher. They have Barzal, Nelson and Pageau at Center. Zajac is essentially Pageau-ish at this point in his career. I'm not sure how he fits or why he's in the deal. Very weird trade. The rest is fluff. some AHL depth and a fourth and a late first gets you two top 9 forwards. Weird deal.
 

TheRealness

Don't make him go all Lucic on your ash
SoSH Member
Feb 8, 2006
11,466
The Dirty Shire
Bullet dodged. That's a steep price that the Bruins can't afford.
Agreed. I think Palmieri would make them better, but how much better is a real question to me and I don’t see it being worth that price. The Bruins need to restock their farm system, and it helps when you make your first round draft picks.

I would imagine the Bruins seriously entertain adding Hall for a 2nd, but I bet Buffalo wants a first there as well. Bold price for someone to meet given his play there.

I still like the idea of adding Hall. I think he could awaken in a Bruins uniform. I wouldn’t pay a 1st though.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
29,167
306, row 14
I don’t know what the market for Hall looks like. I thought the Islanders made the most sense given their need and cap space. Obviously they are out Toronto is supposedly looking for an F but I don’t know if they could make the cap work. Maybe Florida?
 

Maximus

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
5,594
Isles were in the final four last year and know they have a good team that can compete for a Cup and are going for it.
 

veritas

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2009
3,105
Somerville, MA
Everoyne always says the Bruins need wingers, and why can't they find wingers. How good do people think other team's wingers are? I wouldn't trade their wingers for any team's in their division. If Kase had been healthy, probably the entire league. Teams don't win cups by overpowering teams on the wings. It just doesn't happen.

All this winger talk seems to be a way for people to not have the tough discussions about their bottom 4 defense being absolute garbage and Krejci falling off a cliff.

Get a top pair defenseman and second line center. Move Krejci to RW1 and Pasta to RW2 is my armchair GM solution. Or just let it ride.
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
9,317
Gallows Hill
Everoyne always says the Bruins need wingers, and why can't they find wingers. How good do people think other team's wingers are? I wouldn't trade their wingers for any team's in their division. If Kase had been healthy, probably the entire league. Teams don't win cups by overpowering teams on the wings. It just doesn't happen.

All this winger talk seems to be a way for people to not have the tough discussions about their bottom 4 defense being absolute garbage and Krejci falling off a cliff.

Get a top pair defenseman and second line center. Move Krejci to RW1 and Pasta to RW2 is my armchair GM solution. Or just let it ride.
I agree with you in an overall roster building standpoint, however:

Top 2 centers are acquired through the draft (and they blew that opportunity in 2015) or through massive overpayment in free agency, which they have an opportunity to do this offseason.

As for defense, if there are any true top pair defenseman on the market, some other team with a better prospect pool will get them. Every team wants to add another top pair defenseman, and teams trading one command elite prospects, not the parade of 3rd liners and depth defenseman in the Boston system.

Fans focus on the wing because that seems to be area where they can actually do something.

EDIT: looking at the list of upcoming free agent centers, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins looks like the only top 2 center out there in in free agency, and I’m all set with overpaying him.
 
Last edited:

burstnbloom

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,192
I agree with you in an overall roster building standpoint, however:

Top 2 centers are acquired through the draft (and they blew that opportunity in 2015) or through massive overpayment in free agency, which they have an opportunity to do this offseason.

As for defense, if there are any true top pair defenseman on the market, some other team with a better prospect pool will get them. Every team wants to add another top pair defenseman, and teams trading one command elite prospects, not the parade of 3rd liners and depth defenseman in the Boston system.

Fans focus on the wing because that seems to be area where they can actually do something
There isn't a top 6 Center to purchase on the UFA market this offseason. After next year there is a nice crop, though the assumption is a number of them get resigned. Zibanejad, Barkov, Couturier, and Hertl are all out there. Bergeron and krejci will have both expired by then so it's imperative to the future of the franchise that they land one of those guys or find a way to trade for someone else with term.

Veritas is right though, wingers aren't REALLY the problem here. For all the consternation about second line RW, there is a real dearth of quality RW in the NHL over the past few years in general. Over the past 3 years, there are only 45 RW in hockey that have averaged .5 PPG and the general narrative is that they need a 60 point RW to put with Krejci. The truth is, there just aren't very many of those. Certainly they are 1 quality RW short with Kase hurt but It's not nearly the issue that people make it out to be.

The key to unlocking this team is in transition. They dominate when Gryz and McAvoy are on the ice. With everyone else they struggle mightily to generate chances. That's the case regardless of which forwards are on the ice with them so it seems reasonable that transition D is where the bruins really could crack the code. Unfortunately, those are extremely expensive. Zboril looks to have the tools to be that kind of player but he isn't yet and the rest are just not. I don't really think the solution is out there this season unfortunately and the expansion draft really makes it a harder problem to solve.

That said, I continue to eek towards their prospect pool isn't much better than what they already have so I'd sell whatever to give this group a shot, though I agree trading their first pick is a bad idea. It doesn't appear like sellers are going to be getting much in return this year with so much of the league cap starved.
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
9,317
Gallows Hill
I really don’t see why they shouldn’t trade their first this year in the right deal. The pick is probably going to be in the 20-24 range. Sure they could strike gold again and find a Pastrnak there, but more than likely it will be a Trent Frederic, John Beecher, Jack Studnicka level prospect. Basically a kid that will probably be a good player when they grow up in 4/5 years when Bergeron is at center ice giving a speech at his number retirement. If they can use that pick to give them a better shot now, it’s probably worth it.
 

burstnbloom

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,192
I really don’t see why they shouldn’t trade their first this year in the right deal. The pick is probably going to be in the 20-24 range. Sure they could strike gold again and find a Pastrnak there, but more than likely it will be a Trent Frederic, John Beecher, Jack Studnicka level prospect. Basically a kid that will probably be a good player when they grow up in 4/5 years when Bergeron is at center ice giving a speech at his number retirement. If they can use that pick to give them a better shot now, it’s probably worth it.
Ya I guess I should clarify my position. I wouldn't want to do it unless its for someone with term. If they are getting Sam Reinhardt? Give the first, who cares. If they are getting a transition LHD under 30 with some term. I'm here for that. I just don't want to give up a future like that for someone who isn't in the plan long term.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
29,167
306, row 14
I wouldn't trade the first for a rental. Even if you're not getting blue chippers at that spot you need young, ELC contributors on your roster. Especially with the anticipated flat cap. The Rangers bottomed out because they traded their picks every season.

Unless a long term piece comes along, I'd hold on to it. At the very least it'd be an asset they can use in a deal leading into the draft when they've got a mountain of cap space.
 

burstnbloom

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,192
I wouldn't trade the first for a rental. Even if you're not getting blue chippers at that spot you need young, ELC contributors on your roster. Especially with the anticipated flat cap. The Rangers bottomed out because they traded their picks every season.

Unless a long term piece comes along, I'd hold on to it. At the very least it'd be an asset they can use in a deal leading into the draft when they've got a mountain of cap space.
This is a good point. There are a lot of teams with major cap issues in the offseason and that 1st could be a piece to help take advantage of that fact.
 

teds_head

lurker
Aug 1, 2006
129
Looking back the past 10 years, the Bruins have traded their 1st round pick 4 times to set up for a playoff run…

  • Kaberle for 2011 1st rounder (Rickard Rackell) and 2nd (Mike Winther) + Colborne
  • Jagr for 2013 1st rounder (Jason Dickson) + Payne and McDermid
  • Nash for 2018 1st rounder (Jacob Bernard-Docker), 2019 7th rounder + Lindgren, Spooner and Beleskey
  • Kase for 2020 1st rounder (Jacob Perreault) + Alex Anderson, and Backes
Kaberle, Jagr and Nash were all busts - Kaberle was part of that 2011 cup team, but he probably wasn’t even a top 4 defenseman on that playoff team. It’s unknown who won the Kase trade just yet.

Rickard Rackell has probably been the best asset selected with those picks, so nothing where we can say we threw away a pick and missed out on ‘Player X’. Of course, there would have been better/great options they could have selected with those picks in hindsight.

I'm fine with standing pat and hoping Coyle, DeBrusk and Krejci start playing to their capabilities, and that Kase, Carlo and Rask all come back soon.
 

TFP

Dope
Dope
Dec 10, 2007
19,367
Kaberle, Jagr and Nash were all busts - Kaberle was part of that 2011 cup team, but he probably wasn’t even a top 4 defenseman on that playoff team.
Kaberle led all defensemen in points those playoffs, and they won the Cup. Jagr played good 2nd line minutes on a team that went to the Cup finals. Nash got concussed and had his career ended.

None of them were busts. I re-do all 3 of those trades every single time.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
29,167
306, row 14
Jagr was a conditional pick too. It was a 2nd that converted to a 1st since the Bruins made the finals.
 

Haunted

The Man in the Box
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2006
4,436
Yeah I'd do every one of those deals again. You can't predict injuries and they were 100% defensible in the moment.
 

veritas

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2009
3,105
Somerville, MA
I keep going back and forth on it, but I'm leaning towards wanting them to go all in this year. Empty the prospect pool, don't worry about the expansion draft, whatever it takes.

The window is closing and I don't see any sort of possible smooth transition to a post Bergeron/Krejci world. Which is going to be very soon.
 

teds_head

lurker
Aug 1, 2006
129
Kaberle led all defensemen in points those playoffs, and they won the Cup. Jagr played good 2nd line minutes on a team that went to the Cup finals. Nash got concussed and had his career ended.

None of them were busts. I re-do all 3 of those trades every single time.
Don’t get me wrong - at the time I was very excited for the Nash and Jagr trades, and mildly so about landing Kaberle.
I guess “bust” isn’t the right term, but neither Nash nor Jagr had the impact we’d hoped for in the playoffs.
As mentioned, Nash got hurt and Jagr didn’t score a goal in 20 playoff games. If he’d potted even a couple in the finals it could have been the difference.

And I’d still take any of Chara, Seids, Ference and Boychuk over Kaberle on that 2011 team. He got points, but he was frustrating to watch at times.

In the end, none of the picks ended up being something bemoaned about in hindsight. And they gave the B's a better chance to win it all those seasons.
I'm not sure there's a player available this year that we'd feel the same way about.
 

Haunted

The Man in the Box
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2006
4,436
All the more reason to stay still, or sell what you can sell.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
29,167
306, row 14
Final Athletic Trade Board was posted today.

https://theathletic.com/2504273/2021/04/08/nhl-trade-deadline-final-big-board-taylor-hall-mike-hoffman-and-25-others-who-could-be-dealt/

DeBrusk still makes the list with a comment saying teams are calling about him. I wonder if a DeBrusk for Vince Dunn trade works for both the Bruins and Blues. Same age, both struggling. DeBrusk makes more money so they'd have to balance it out but perhaps they could expand a deal and get back a UFA like Hoffman or Schwartz to fill DeBrusk's role for the rest of the year. Just spitballing.
 

McDrew

Set Adrift on Memory Bliss
SoSH Member
Apr 11, 2006
3,662
Portland, OR
Call Steve Y. Offer him a 3rd that conditionally becomes a 2nd if the B's make the semi-finals for Bobby Ryan or Luke Glendening
 
Last edited:

burstnbloom

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2005
2,192
Nash is an LTIR grab by the leafs. I gotta admit to disliking this loophole. Toronto and Tampa aren't even close to cap compliant without ltir.
 

jk333

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 26, 2009
3,252
Boston
I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting trading DeBrusk+ for Hall? Or trade for Hall and then use DeBrusk+ for something else?

DeBrusk+ is an overpay for Hall.

The latter scenario (trade for Hall; wheel DeBrusk elsewhere) is plausible. Ideally you'd send DeBrusk out for a similarly aged LHD. There are a few problems with this. First is DeBrusk himself is having a down year. I think teams would jump on him but would also want to rob the Bruins for him. Secondly, the expansion draft. If you're trading DeBrusk for a D (my spitball is Vince Dunn from STL) then you would want to protect the D coming back. Which puts you in the position of needing to protect 4 D (McAvoy, Grzelyck, Carlo, player X). That means you can only protect 4 F which would be Pastrnak, Bergeron, Marchand and Coyle. That leaves Hall exposed in this scenario. I guess they could wink wink, nudge nudge agree to an extension with Hall and not file it until after the expansion draft but that seems ripe for blowing up in their face. Some other team could get into his ear and then he's gone and you're back to searching around for F help.
Your valuations are very helpful. The guts of my proposal is to swap Debrusk for Hall (not necessarily 1:1).

And then not re-sign Hall before the expansion draft. (Therefore holding onto a young D)

If he’s so great for us, then we lose a D and sign him. If not, we tell him our offer and wait to sign him. Otherwise, we sign some other 40 point wing to take the Debrusk/Hall role. There’s value in being able to wait to summer to decide.

Its possible Hall has regressed but it’s also possible Buffalo is a dumpster fire. I admit: I’m down on Debrusk, to me we keep moving away from that upside and it’s more and more likely that he is (just) a 20 goal/40 pt wing. Heck, if Debrusk is more valuable, maybe we even get the draft pick with Hall?
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
9,317
Gallows Hill
The Bruins aren’t going to make an impact move. They don’t have the chips to do anything significant. Any “rumors” out there are total clickbait.
 

nolasoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 11, 2004
5,105
Displaced
this will officially put them over $100m worth of cap hits when the playoff begins. Very cool.
How does the NHL allow/justify this? I thought the cap was $86 million...or is it still $81.5 million? Either way, the ‘Ning are well over, no?
 
Last edited:

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
29,167
306, row 14
Long term injury replacement (LTIR). Essentially teams can place a player on LTIR and exceed the salary cap by that players salary. The Lightning have 4 players with over $19 in cap hits on LTIR. 2 of these players were.acquired for the sole purpose of LTIR (Gaborik who wasn’t played in years and Anders Nilsson). A third is Kucherov. He is out for the regular season and makes $9.5 million. When you activate a player from LTIR you have to be cap compliant, but the cap goes away in the playoff. So they’ll activate Kucherov for game 1 and play with a $100 million roster
 

mwonow

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2005
6,156
Sorry for the dumb question. I get the Kucherov dodge. But what's the advantage with someone like Gaborik? You get relief in the amount of the player's salary, but that only offsets the amount paid to a non-player, right? I must be missing something here...