2021 Tour de France

bsj

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I know that the cyclists here will say I am nuts, but as a non cyclist, this seems like the kind of incident that should red flag the race (or whatever the term would be for a hard stop and the restart) and allow for a reset of sorts.
 

Rovin Romine

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I got to the point where the doping was so bad, I just basically gave up on the TDF, unless I was extremely bored at some point or another.

I can't say the sport's done anything to win me back.

But this may change things - I thought it was marvelous.

We are all Allez Opi-Omi! (I mean, who does not root for the grandfolks?)
 

21st Century Sox

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I know that the cyclists here will say I am nuts, but as a non cyclist, this seems like the kind of incident that should red flag the race (or whatever the term would be for a hard stop and the restart) and allow for a reset of sorts.
That is basically what happens, unless too close to finish line. The field "neutralizes", and soft pedals, until the crash victims can sort out bike issues and catch back on. Then they kick up the pace again. So not nuts at all. If say just a few kilometers left, there is no way to wait. Finally, any rider involved in a crash with less than 3 kilometers to go is simply awarded the same time as lead group.
 

CheapSeats

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Great stage today. MVDP getting the yellow with 2 calculated attacks was just perfect. Really happy for him. With a few flat stages coming up, I hope he can hold on to it for a few days.

I got to the point where the doping was so bad, I just basically gave up on the TDF, unless I was extremely bored at some point or another.

I can't say the sport's done anything to win me back.

But this may change things - I thought it was marvelous.

We are all Allez Opi-Omi! (I mean, who does not root for the grandfolks?)
I really think the current group of young talent, especially the cyclocross/mountain bike racers in MVDP, Wout, and Tom Pidcock are a lot of fun to watch and are setting the sport up for the future. It's been fun to watch Wout and MVDP battle over the winter at cyclocross races, then see MDVP and Pidcock at mountain bike races (and the Olympics in a month) and now at Le Tour.
 

Fred not Lynn

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Someone’s grandparents must be SO proud!

In all seriousness, the threat of legal liability is all good - but I’m guessing this kid’s net worth wouldn’t pay for one of those bikes…so good luck with that!
 

StupendousMan

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At least four crashes today, and some will have major consequences: Primoz Roglic, one of the favorites, lost over a minute on his main GC competitors, and may not be able to start tomorrow. Caleb Ewan is (I think) out of the race; he crashed with just a few hundred meters to go, in the middle of a 65-km/hour sprint. He was on the pavement for a long time, and I don't think he could have crossed the line under his own power. That crash was partly his fault -- he tried to pass another rider on the inside, but there wasn't enough room between the rider and the barriers -- but can also be blamed partly on the course design: putting an S-curve into the final few hundred meters of a sprint finish of a flat stage is just asking for trouble. One of the earlier crashes was (in my opinion) very definitely in large part due to the race design: a sharp left-hand turn after a downhill section, just 8 km from the finish of a flat stage, when lots of sprinters' teams would be pushing hard.

In its first three stages, this edition of the Tour has lost several top riders, either completely, or de facto, due to the time they've already lost. I guess it could be exciting if one is a fan of some unknown cyclist who will now have a chance to shine in the spotlight, but it doesn't fill this regular viewer with joy :-(

Edit: apparently Ewan did cross the finish line, the last of the riders to do so. I wonder if he just walked that last few hundred meters ... That means he _was_ officially still in the race at that point. However, I've just read that he has been diagnosed with a broken collarbone, so he's out for good now. Sigh.
 
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Fred not Lynn

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This year’s Tour is a bloodbath so far…I am Impressed with Geraint Thomas crashing, dislocating his shoulder, getting it put back in place and working his way back to the peloton. That’s pretty bad-ass…
 

Rovin Romine

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I really think the current group of young talent, especially the cyclocross/mountain bike racers in MVDP, Wout, and Tom Pidcock are a lot of fun to watch and are setting the sport up for the future. It's been fun to watch Wout and MVDP battle over the winter at cyclocross races, then see MDVP and Pidcock at mountain bike races (and the Olympics in a month) and now at Le Tour.
I'm glad you're enjoying it, but I'm pretty checked out from the sport in general. I've never been a huge fan of the team aspect of it, and doping and excessive support just exacerbates that. If you were to show me clean guys with equal equipment, and no in-race support/coaching/radios/replacement bikes, vying to finish a marathon-like contest. . .yeah. But the tour lost the illusion of that long ago.
 

hawaiirsn

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This year’s Tour is a bloodbath so far…I am Impressed with Geraint Thomas crashing, dislocating his shoulder, getting it put back in place and working his way back to the peloton. That’s pretty bad-ass…
How about Marc Soler breaking both elbows on Stage 1 and managing to finish (albeit 24 minutes down)?! Of course he abandoned after the stage, but thought finishing the day was incredible. Thomas is tough, rode most of the 2013 Tour with a fractured pelvis-- the pain tolerance of some of these guys has to be incredible...
 

Mr. Wednesday

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In its first three stages, this edition of the Tour has lost several top riders, either completely, or de facto, due to the time they've already lost. I guess it could be exciting if one is a fan of some unknown cyclist who will now have a chance to shine in the spotlight, but it doesn't fill this regular viewer with joy :-(
Major time lost for Roglic takes a lot of the shine off of this year's Tour, as one of the big selling points was a renewal of his battle with Pogocar.
 

SocrManiac

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I haven’t looked into the science behind it, but my perception is that what separates these guys from regular Joes isn’t just the inhuman cardio/pulm efficiency. It’s the absolute ability to ignore pain.

Cycling is one of the most relatable sports out there- everybody can ride a bike. We also all know what it’s like to be exhausted by it. These guys ignore that pain for hours at a time for weeks on end. It’s impossible to fathom. It’s not that much of a stretch for me to imagine that whatever allows these guys to push through their bodies crying for them to stop pedaling Woolf allow them to ignore the pain of a non-critical structural injury. A separated shoulder is immensely painful, even when relocated. It’s weaker in the aftermath as well. It apparently won’t keep you from pedaling, so he just walls off that pet of his brain and moves on. It’s absolutely incredible.
 

hawaiirsn

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Major time lost for Roglic takes a lot of the shine off of this year's Tour, as one of the big selling points was a renewal of his battle with Pogocar.
Agreed that its a huge bummer, but the time lost of Roglic is not quite enough to count him out all the way. I'm at least holding out hope that things will be looking competitive again after the Wednesday time trial. Before today I was a bit worried the Tour would just come down to Pog vs Rog with no one else really involved and get boring just watching them mark each other, but I'm holding out hopes for an interesting battle between the Slovenians with some others (Carapaz, Thomas, surprise...) keeping it fun too.
 

Fred not Lynn

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I'm glad you're enjoying it, but I'm pretty checked out from the sport in general. I've never been a huge fan of the team aspect of it, and doping and excessive support just exacerbates that. If you were to show me clean guys with equal equipment, and no in-race support/coaching/radios/replacement bikes, vying to finish a marathon-like contest. . .yeah. But the tour lost the illusion of that long ago.
I hate doping, and at least WANT to believe that cycling is way less dirty than it was in the Armstrong years…but I LOVE the team aspect. Not the high tech stuff like radios, but the more subtle tactical stuff. I like knowing that each guy out there, no matter his rank on the GC has a purpose, and I admire and appreciate when a man does an unsexy job in support of his team leader.

I think nothing could be more dull than a months worth of individual time-trials…yet I love the few time-trials they have (and I definitely enjoy the team-time-trial the years they have one, executed correctly that’s a thing of beauty)
 

Rovin Romine

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I hate doping, and at least WANT to believe that cycling is way less dirty than it was in the Armstrong years…but I LOVE the team aspect. Not the high tech stuff like radios, but the more subtle tactical stuff. I like knowing that each guy out there, no matter his rank on the GC has a purpose, and I admire and appreciate when a man does an unsexy job in support of his team leader.

I think nothing could be more dull than a months worth of individual time-trials…yet I love the few time-trials they have (and I definitely enjoy the team-time-trial the years they have one, executed correctly that’s a thing of beauty)
I appreciate the tactical aspect of the team. . .but IMO cycling, sort of like running or any other racing, is really best when there's a one-on-one challenge. Lemond/Fingon was epic because of the final day, not because of day 7, when there was a grind by some forgotten guy to give Fingon some wind-resistance. All that stuff is just window dressing.

The caravan riding with the team is just absurd as well. For something like the tour, you should get one bike. Choose your tech wisely.
 

Fred not Lynn

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I appreciate the tactical aspect of the team. . .but IMO cycling, sort of like running or any other racing, is really best when there's a one-on-one challenge. Lemond/Fingon was epic because of the final day, not because of day 7, when there was a grind by some forgotten guy to give Fingon some wind-resistance. All that stuff is just window dressing.

The caravan riding with the team is just absurd as well. For something like the tour, you should get one bike. Choose your tech wisely.
As much fun as Fignon -LeMond was, that last day wasn’t won on the road, it was won in the lab/wind tunnel. I enjoy technology, but the balance between fair sport and science experiment was broken that day. There’s a reason bike racing and human powered vehicle racing are different sports.

As far as your one-bike idea goes; Too much shit goes wrong over those thousands of km to make that realistic. You’d turn the Tour into a bike fixing contest, not a bike race…
 

Rovin Romine

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As much fun as Fignon -LeMond was, that last day wasn’t won on the road, it was won in the lab/wind tunnel. I enjoy technology, but the balance between fair sport and science experiment was broken that day. There’s a reason bike racing and human powered vehicle racing are different sports.

As far as your one-bike idea goes; Too much shit goes wrong over those thousands of km to make that realistic. You’d turn the Tour into a bike fixing contest, not a bike race…
I've ridden a single bike thousands of kms.
 

Fred not Lynn

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I've ridden a single bike thousands of kms.
Not at 30+ mph 6 inches away from 175 other guys going 30+ mph with idiots carrying “Hi Grandma” signs popping out in front of you like gremlins in a video game. And down mountains 3 times that speed. In the rain. And trade unions don’t throw thumbtacks on the road in front of you to draw attention to their cause.

There are races like you suggest, where there’s no support, more on gravel and many are one-day ultra distance events. The TV ratings and revenue are somewhat lower than for the TdF…
 

Rovin Romine

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Not at 30+ mph 6 inches away from 175 other guys going 30+ mph with idiots carrying “Hi Grandma” signs popping out in front of you like gremlins in a video game. And down mountains 3 times that speed. In the rain. And trade unions don’t throw thumbtacks on the road in front of you to draw attention to their cause.
I know you think this is selling the TDF. . .but it's not. Anyway - it's no skin off your nose.
 

Fred not Lynn

Dick Button Jr.
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I know you think this is selling the TDF. . .but it's not. Anyway - it's no skin off your nose.
I don’t mind either way…people like why they like. The thing you want actually does exist though.

I am deprived in my TdF watching this year because to see it in Canada I need a $150/year FloBike subscription (which they only offer as full year pre-paid so 90% of their customers aren’t one month subs) - which is just not a good value proposition for a month long event. I know there are some grey and black market workarounds, but the friction is too much to bother.
 

DJnVa

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Not enough.

They should quarter him down and let cyclists ride over him.
Her.

Report: Fan involved in massive crash at Tour de France arrested - StarTribune.com

The woman, not publicly identified, was arrested by gendarmes in the Finistere region who tracked her down based on "solid" accounts from people questioned this week, France Bleu Finistere said, citing a source close to the probe.
Tour organizers had announced after the crash on the stage from Brest to Landerneau that they would start legal proceedings against the fan, who disappeared from the crash scene.
 

am_dial

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I don’t mind either way…people like why they like. The thing you want actually does exist though.

I am deprived in my TdF watching this year because to see it in Canada I need a $150/year FloBike subscription (which they only offer as full year pre-paid so 90% of their customers aren’t one month subs) - which is just not a good value proposition for a month long event. I know there are some grey and black market workarounds, but the friction is too much to bother.
Can you stream it via GCN+? (Not sure how much that costs, but it may be cheaper than $150.)

(edit: deleted draft comments I didn’t intend to post)
 

SocrManiac

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I'm genuinely curious how they're going to handle the fan. Are they going to make a draconian example of her in an attempt to prevent recurrence or will they take pity on what was a stupid mistake?
 

Rovin Romine

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I'm genuinely curious how they're going to handle the fan. Are they going to make a draconian example of her in an attempt to prevent recurrence or will they take pity on what was a stupid mistake?
I am also curious.

I don't know civil law (France) violations in any detail, but in the US, there'd be very limited options for charging her with a crime. A traffic ordinance might apply. But most crimes aren't strict liability (meaning they require a mental element of wrongdoing), and IMO she clearly wasn't trying to cause harm. (Outside of traffic ordinances, one might as well just charge the rider for battering her and failing to slow down.)

In the US there'd likely be a civil suit based in negligence. . .or contract if a ticket was bought or terms to approach the roadside were announced.

Even so, punitive action against her would basically come down to rich people getting pissed off about their toys/games. If she disrupted a skateboard race and accidentally knocked some kid down, no one would blink, and the police certainly wouldn't track her down.

Sometimes things are just accidents.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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Watching the video, it's hard to say this wasn't an accident. The international manhunt that resulted was a bit much as well.

Looking at the crowds it reminds me a bit of Group B rally racing in the 80s. Fans basically hanging over or standing on the course in places and riders zooming by hoping the fans get in the way in time. The risk isn't as extreme as Group B but the complete lack of crowd control stands out.
 

SocrManiac

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I’ve been hearing about crowd control and near misses (and hits) in cycling for years. This woman could end up as the deterrent moving forward.

I think she needs to be punished. Her carelessness hurt countless riders, cost tens of (of not hundreds of) thousands in damage, and materially affected the sporting event. Her life should not be ruined, however.

I’m genuinely concerned that the rest of her life is going to be significantly damaged.
 

hawaiirsn

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Can you stream it via GCN+? (Not sure how much that costs, but it may be cheaper than $150.)

(edit: deleted draft comments I didn’t intend to post)
I recommend GCN+ and using a VPN for content not available in Canada. It’s really simple and you get way more for your money than FloBikes which is insanely expensive. Not sure if you care about watching other races too, but basically everything is available on GCN in a country you can use a VPN for.
 

MiracleOfO2704

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I’ve been hearing about crowd control and near misses (and hits) in cycling for years.
Before he was outed as a sociopathic egomaniac, one of the best moments of Lance Armstrong's career was due to a fan getting too close and knocking him down. During the one of his 7 wins to be close (2003), he was in a group climbing the Luz Ardiden that was pretty elite: himself for US Postal, Jan Ullrich with Bianchi, and Iban Mayo with Euskatel-Euskadi. A fan waved a souvenir feed bag that hooked Armstrong's handlebar, throwing him down, taking Mayo with him and coming dangerously close to wiping out Ullrich, too. The force of the crash actually cracked his bike's gear shaft, and that affected him the rest of the way up. After collecting himself and making a charge (with an assist to Ullrich and Bianchi for holding up the "peleton" to let him back in), Armstrong slipped off his pedal, nearly falling a second time. Armstrong thanked Ullrich for his respect by keeping Mayo's wheel on his next attack, countered, and blew by everyone, including poor Sylvain Chavanel, who was actually leading on the day before the chaos behind him, to win the stage and pick up critical time on Ullrich.
 

The Gray Eagle

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No posts here in 16 days? Surprising.

The announcers are always talking about that guy Teddy Focaccia, but when they show the leaderboard he is never on it.
The guy leading it now is named something like Tadej Pogcar, but Teddy Focaccia is nowhere to be seen.



Yeah that's just a dumb joke. I'm hoping that more knowledgable people will start posting here again though, I like reading what you all have to say.
 

kfoss99

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I think there needs to be a jersey for most aggressive rider. I love the guys getting 10 minute leads and swallowed up in the last K. But, also sometimes they win the stage!
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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No posts here in 16 days? Surprising.

The announcers are always talking about that guy Teddy Focaccia, but when they show the leaderboard he is never on it.
The guy leading it now is named something like Tadej Pogcar, but Teddy Focaccia is nowhere to be seen.



Yeah that's just a dumb joke. I'm hoping that more knowledgable people will start posting here again though, I like reading what you all have to say.
Honestly the fight for yellow has been a complete bore after Roglic abandoned. It was a long shot for Pogacar not to repeat, but it was pretty much guaranteed after that. The most exciting thing about this tour is the swan song for Cavendish, who was on the verge of retirement and not even supposed to be in the Tour. Not just winning a stage or two, but four so far, odds on favorite to win the final stage tomorrow, tying Merckx record and a green jersey. Just incredible.
 

Bread of Yaz

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Honestly the fight for yellow has been a complete bore after Roglic abandoned. It was a long shot for Pogacar not to repeat, but it was pretty much guaranteed after that. The most exciting thing about this tour is the swan song for Cavendish, who was on the verge of retirement and not even supposed to be in the Tour. Not just winning a stage or two, but four so far, odds on favorite to win the final stage tomorrow, tying Merckx record and a green jersey. Just incredible.
Already tied Merckx; looking for No. 35 tomorrow to break record.
 

Rovin Romine

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Before he was outed as a sociopathic egomaniac, one of the best moments of Lance Armstrong's career was doing some shit while juiced to the gills. And boy did that guy know how to dope. He doped so much he did "incredible stuff" that people mistook for skill or mental fortitude or destiny or some epic nonsense. You could knock him off a bike and he'd dope-ride along just fine, with more to come the next day. . .because, hyper-cheater!!!
Fixed that for you.
 

MiracleOfO2704

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Oh, I acknowledge I'm in full conflict about my nostalgia for those days. On the one hand, naive as I was, that 2003 Tour had some great drama to it, as it was the only one of the seven that Armstrong even seemed to be human. And to think that the majority of the peleton wasn't on something in that Tour is equally naive.

That said, I enjoy the moment, while the man who, beyond his doping, set up such an intricate network to disguise his cheating that he became a tyrant within the sport, bullying anyone he felt he could to keep the truth from seeing the light of day, can fuck himself with a two-foot wide mace. Armstrong The Cheater is no worse than any of the other dopers in those tours, but Armstrong the Human might be once of the worst athletes ever.
 

TheGazelle

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Oh, I acknowledge I'm in full conflict about my nostalgia for those days. On the one hand, naive as I was, that 2003 Tour had some great drama to it, as it was the only one of the seven that Armstrong even seemed to be human. And to think that the majority of the peleton wasn't on something in that Tour is equally naive.

That said, I enjoy the moment, while the man who, beyond his doping, set up such an intricate network to disguise his cheating that he became a tyrant within the sport, bullying anyone he felt he could to keep the truth from seeing the light of day, can fuck himself with a two-foot wide mace. Armstrong The Cheater is no worse than any of the other dopers in those tours, but Armstrong the Human might be once of the worst athletes ever.
I agree with most of this. I watched basically every minute of coverage of those early Lance tours, and I stand by the first Lance win as one of the great sporting moments that I've seen. Lance being on horse steroids or whatever doesn't really detract from that because we know everyone else was equally juiced and it was great theater. (I have a similar stance re: the McGwire/Sosa home run chase.) Now, Lance the Human being possibly the biggest piece of shit in the world of sports is a different topic and has definitely impacted how I think about those races.
 

Rovin Romine

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Oh, I acknowledge I'm in full conflict about my nostalgia for those days. On the one hand, naive as I was, that 2003 Tour had some great drama to it, as it was the only one of the seven that Armstrong even seemed to be human. And to think that the majority of the peleton wasn't on something in that Tour is equally naive.

That said, I enjoy the moment, while the man who, beyond his doping, set up such an intricate network to disguise his cheating that he became a tyrant within the sport, bullying anyone he felt he could to keep the truth from seeing the light of day, can fuck himself with a two-foot wide mace. Armstrong The Cheater is no worse than any of the other dopers in those tours, but Armstrong the Human might be once of the worst athletes ever.
I'd agree with all of this to an extent. I admired Armstrong back in the day - particularly his "are you coming" baiting stare-down of Ullrich. He was a cancer survivor and had the nutrition/massage/team/only TDF focus smokescreen to conceal his doping. And no, I wouldn't care if one or another racer took some speed one day or another, especially back in the day.

To my mind (and this is just my own subjective standard here) the PED line is best drawn clear and bright and rather tightly toward the "no enhancement" end of the spectrum. I don't care so much about records being broken, as I'd like to see "equal playing field" contests between people. But most importantly, no one should have to be tempted to whack out their endocrine system because their competitor (to win the race, or to qualify for the race, to make the team) might be doing so.

So honestly, fuck Armstrong, and his entire generation of riders. But most especially Armstrong. Sideways. For his especially egregious abuse of the sport, and more so for his vilification of the people within it. May there be no Mea Culpa Money In My Pocket Book-tour Comebacks for him ever. May he never be mentioned without bringing up the damage he caused by his bullying, arrogance, entitlement, hunger-for-fame, and his pathetic weaknesses and insecurities. He's a human shaped piece of shit, with utility only to humanity as an example of what not to do.