Possible Pats Coaching Changes

Cellar-Door

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I would guess some of the luster is off Josh in part because he's never had a good offense without Brady (except the Cassell year where an all-time offense went to just above average)
View: https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1351202296261210112/photo/1


Also, the word on his out of DEN was awful. Honestly I've always hoped someone would steal him away specifically because I wouldn't want him to be the successor to Bill. He never seemed like a guy you wanted as your head coach. OC? Sure, but he was awful at managing people in DEN, and I don't know that is a skill you can develop.
 

JM3

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Yeah, the reporting this morning was that Josh is not approachable in a human way due to his arrogance & that Lurie wasn't fully sold on him. Don't think you can let that slip & then go hire him.
 

E5 Yaz

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Yeah, the reporting this morning was that Josh is not approachable in a human way due to his arrogance & that Lurie wasn't fully sold on him. Don't think you can let that slip & then go hire him.
Reporting by who?
 

kenneycb

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I would guess some of the luster is off Josh in part because he's never had a good offense without Brady (except the Cassell year where an all-time offense went to just above average)
View: https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1351202296261210112/photo/1


Also, the word on his out of DEN was awful. Honestly I've always hoped someone would steal him away specifically because I wouldn't want him to be the successor to Bill. He never seemed like a guy you wanted as your head coach. OC? Sure, but he was awful at managing people in DEN, and I don't know that is a skill you can develop.
How high is he supposed to rank with a Kyle Orton- or Sam Bradford/AJ Feeley-led offense that has Brandon Lloyd as your number 1?
 

Cellar-Door

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How high is he supposed to rank with a Kyle Orton- or Sam Bradford/AJ Feeley-led offense that has Brandon Lloyd as your number 1?
I mean, he took over the 5th ranked offense in DVOA, then he traded away a Pro-Bowl QB to hand pick Orton to be his QB. If you want to argue that he got the best out of the offense after the destroyed it I'll listen, but I don't buy it.

We may actually underrate how bad Josh was in DEN. He nuked that organization in an impressive display of arrogance and incompetence.
 

JM3

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I mean, he took over the 5th ranked offense in DVOA, then he traded away a Pro-Bowl QB to hand pick Orton to be his QB. If you want to argue that he got the best out of the offense after the destroyed it I'll listen, but I don't buy it.

We may actually underrate how bad Josh was in DEN. He nuked that organization in an impressive display of arrogance and incompetence.
The corrolary is how did the Patriots do in the 3 years without McDaniels? Hard to find that data without an FO subscription, but looks like they had the 2nd best offense per DVOA ever in 2010 (+39.4%) & 9th best ever in 2011 (+32.6%). So probably ok.

The 2007 Patriots had the best ever at +41.1%, & they did fine in his first year back in 2012 at 12th all time (+31.8%).
 

Cellar-Door

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The corrolary is how did the Patriots do in the 3 years without McDaniels? Hard to find that data without an FO subscription, but looks like they had the 2nd best offense per DVOA ever in 2010 (+39.4%) & 9th best ever in 2011 (+32.6%). So probably ok.

The 2007 Patriots had the best ever at +41.1%, & they did fine in his first year back in 2012 at 12th all time (+31.8%).
I believe they were 1st, 1st, 3rd in the 3 years he was gone.
 

Oppo

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I would guess some of the luster is off Josh in part because he's never had a good offense without Brady (except the Cassell year where an all-time offense went to just above average)
View: https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1351202296261210112/photo/1

Also, the word on his out of DEN was awful. Honestly I've always hoped someone would steal him away specifically because I wouldn't want him to be the successor to Bill. He never seemed like a guy you wanted as your head coach. OC? Sure, but he was awful at managing people in DEN, and I don't know that is a skill you can develop.
To be fair, could anyone have done anything with Orton/Bradford/‘20 Cam?
 

Cellar-Door

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To be fair, could anyone have done anything with Orton/Bradford/‘20 Cam?
Addressed a bit up thread, but I'm not giving Josh the "oh I had Orton" excuse when he took a top 5 offense, went out of his way to move the QB to get Orton, then was bad.
As to Bradford, that offense was a few spots better the year before (with Bradford as a rookie) and was much better the year after.
With Cam, hard to say because of injuries, but that was the worst offense he's ever been in, so it's hard to parse what is Cam's newfound physical limitations, what is the supporting cast, and what is an offense not doing it's best to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses.

Maybe none of it is Josh's fault, but if I were looking for a head coach, I certainly would consider the failures of his non-NE offenses and the success of NE without him along with his other issues as counterpoints to his NE success.
 

lexrageorge

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Josh's record in Denver is what it is. Belichick's record in Cleveland was mediocre as well. Pete Carroll was mediocre with the Jets and the Pats before winning a title with the Seahawks.

Still, the record is there, and McDaniels probably blew his best chance at getting a head coaching job when he walked away from the Colts job. His brand was tied in with the performance of the Pats offense, and, if there was a point to "sell high", the time to do what was when Brady and Gronk were winning Super Bowls.

I don't blame McDaniels for the 2020 Patriots offensive performance. Going from Brady to an injured and washed up Cam with no receivers is not a hurdle that is surmountable by any amount of coaching. It's like the 2009 Pats defense with the slow and washed up Adalius Thomas and a slower and even more washed up Derrick Burgess as starting LB's. Still, OC's get judged by the performance of their respective squads, and Josh's squad didn't do him any favors.
 

Cellar-Door

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Josh's record in Denver is what it is. Belichick's record in Cleveland was mediocre as well. Pete Carroll was mediocre with the Jets and the Pats before winning a title with the Seahawks.

Still, the record is there, and McDaniels probably blew his best chance at getting a head coaching job when he walked away from the Colts job. His brand was tied in with the performance of the Pats offense, and, if there was a point to "sell high", the time to do what was when Brady and Gronk were winning Super Bowls.

I don't blame McDaniels for the 2020 Patriots offensive performance. Going from Brady to an injured and washed up Cam with no receivers is not a hurdle that is surmountable by any amount of coaching. It's like the 2009 Pats defense with the slow and washed up Adalius Thomas and a slower and even more washed up Derrick Burgess as starting LB's. Still, OC's get judged by the performance of their respective squads, and Josh's squad didn't do him any favors.
I should say, I have no idea if Josh will be good in a second chance, just that when he stepped out of the Brady/Bellichick bubble he struggled.

Interestingly on Bill in CLE..... his first 4 years are 4 of the 6 best PD years for the Browns in the last 30 years, and featured the last playoff win before this year for the Browns.

I think how good Bill was with NE made people exaggerate how bad he was in CLE.
He took over a 3-13 team, and went 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 11-5. That's a promising start, then obviously his last year was his worst, but there were some obvious extenuating circumstances.