2021 NFL: QB Carousel

Zososoxfan

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Except if the absolute stud they want is WR1, and they can not only take the exact same player at 6 or 8 but also get a few extra second rounders tossed in.

Philly and Carolina are both likely in the QB market along with ATL. One of those teams are likely to pony up a few picks to secure “their guy” at 3.

6 with Philly likely means Miami gets their choice of WR if QBs go 1-3, ATL takes whoever, maybe Pitts maybe Parsons maybe QB4, and Cincy goes Sewell. Now Miami takes WR1, and maybe pockets an extra 2 second rounders as well.
I disagree that Philly is in the QB market. They spent a 2nd round pick on Hurts and are likely encouraged enough by what they saw last year not to draft another QB. Much like the Pats, they have holes everywhere, especially OL (although that might've been injuries, but I digress). Miami has to know that they're a QB away from being a real contender, so I expect that they will draft their non QB target at 3 or trade down to draft the same guy while adding an asset. ATL is a bit of a wild card but I doubt they draft a QB. Cincy is invested in Burrow. Philly already discussed. DET, CAR, and DEN (maybe?) are likely in the QB market among others. In other words, there should be trade partners if the Pats want to move up as high as 4, but there will be competition for those draft slots so the price will be significant.
 

BigSoxFan

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I'm out on trading a 2022 first. This team has basically no floor for 2021, especially if we're trading our best player (Gilmore) and drafting a rookie QB.
Yeah, I’m with you. If 15/46 or 15/Gilmore gets us in position to draft a Lance, Fields, etc., I’m good with it. But this team could be awful in 2021 depending on how FA/draft goes and I’m not convinced any of the non-Lawrence QBs are worth giving up 2 #1’s.
 

Oil Can Dan

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I disagree that Philly is in the QB market. They spent a 2nd round pick on Hurts and are likely encouraged enough by what they saw last year not to draft another QB. Much like the Pats, they have holes everywhere, especially OL (although that might've been injuries, but I digress). Miami has to know that they're a QB away from being a real contender, so I expect that they will draft their non QB target at 3 or trade down to draft the same guy while adding an asset. ATL is a bit of a wild card but I doubt they draft a QB. Cincy is invested in Burrow. Philly already discussed. DET, CAR, and DEN (maybe?) are likely in the QB market among others. In other words, there should be trade partners if the Pats want to move up as high as 4, but there will be competition for those draft slots so the price will be significant.
Philly is definitely in the QB market. If they're willing to burn a 2nd rounder less than a year after backing up the Brinks truck for Wentz, they're willing to burn a 1st rounder this year.
 

sodenj5

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I disagree that Philly is in the QB market. They spent a 2nd round pick on Hurts and are likely encouraged enough by what they saw last year not to draft another QB. Much like the Pats, they have holes everywhere, especially OL (although that might've been injuries, but I digress). Miami has to know that they're a QB away from being a real contender, so I expect that they will draft their non QB target at 3 or trade down to draft the same guy while adding an asset. ATL is a bit of a wild card but I doubt they draft a QB. Cincy is invested in Burrow. Philly already discussed. DET, CAR, and DEN (maybe?) are likely in the QB market among others. In other words, there should be trade partners if the Pats want to move up as high as 4, but there will be competition for those draft slots so the price will be significant.
Ok. Several reporters have said the Eagles are likely bringing in a QB.

View: https://twitter.com/sheilkapadia/status/1362504221707431936?s=21


View: https://twitter.com/jclarknbcs/status/1362483165353377796?s=21


They also just ditched the dude they gave away a draft haul and a mega contract to. I don’t know why you would think a second round pick makes Hurts untouchable.

Carolina, Atlanta, and Philly could all move up to three, especially if QBs go 1-2. I suppose I would just say I would be shocked if Miami doesn’t trade out of the third pick if QBs go 1-2 to a team looking for a QB.
 

Royal Reader

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I think the Kapadia tweet makes sense. Hurts seems like a high-floor low-ceiling guy. If they start him for a full year, they're probably bad, but pick 8-14 bad rather than pick 2-5 bad. This might be the only chance they get to pick a franchise QB, if they think there's one on the board when they come to pick (or, I guess, if they were to trade up with ATL or suchlike if they really have wood for a guy). If they don't have a clear favorite in the non-Lawrence division, or someone else reaches for their guy, they are set enough that they don't have to take a guy just to have someone to take the snaps.
 

Mooch

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The issue for the Eagles is that they're in a full-on rebuild. They have weaknesses all over the place on both sides of the ball. They can get by with Hurts as they rebuild their core - Philly seems like a prime trade-down candidate to me to add volume over the next 2-3 seasons. The cupboard is beyond bare there and they are capped out.
 

BaseballJones

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The issue for the Eagles is that they're in a full-on rebuild. They have weaknesses all over the place on both sides of the ball. They can get by with Hurts as they rebuild their core - Philly seems like a prime trade-down candidate to me to add volume over the next 2-3 seasons. The cupboard is beyond bare there and they are capped out.
But they're having fun. Or at least they used to anyway.
 

Average Reds

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The issue for the Eagles is that they're in a full-on rebuild. They have weaknesses all over the place on both sides of the ball. They can get by with Hurts as they rebuild their core - Philly seems like a prime trade-down candidate to me to add volume over the next 2-3 seasons. The cupboard is beyond bare there and they are capped out.
This is the correct take.

They are in a rebuild and need help everywhere. They will roll with Hurts next year and if he's not the guy, they'll address it for the 2022 season.
 

Average Reds

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They also just ditched the dude they gave away a draft haul and a mega contract to. I don’t know why you would think a second round pick makes Hurts untouchable.

Carolina, Atlanta, and Philly could all move up to three, especially if QBs go 1-2. I suppose I would just say I would be shocked if Miami doesn’t trade out of the third pick if QBs go 1-2 to a team looking for a QB.
It's not a question of Hurts being untouchable. (He's not.) It's a question of priorities.

They will absolutely bring in competition for Hurts. But unless Lurie and the front office are ingesting some high-quality hallucinogens, they are not spending resources they don't have to move up in the draft to take a QB.
 

Oil Can Dan

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It's not a question of Hurts being untouchable. (He's not.) It's a question of priorities.

They will absolutely bring in competition for Hurts. But unless Lurie and the front office are ingesting some high-quality hallucinogens, they are not spending resources they don't have to move up in the draft to take a QB.
They’ve made it clear they value a “franchise QB” above all else and they showed how much they’re willing to pay to move up and get (what they believed) was one in 2016. Why wouldn’t they do the same now? Especially considering they’re sitting at #6 overall instead of #15 as they were then?
 

sodenj5

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It's not a question of Hurts being untouchable. (He's not.) It's a question of priorities.

They will absolutely bring in competition for Hurts. But unless Lurie and the front office are ingesting some high-quality hallucinogens, they are not spending resources they don't have to move up in the draft to take a QB.
Going from 6 to 3 would be far less cost prohibitive than when they traded for Wentz.

Yes, they’re giving up more resources, but if an additional two 2nd round picks gets them Fields or Lance, I think they do it.

Hell, they used one second rounder on QB last year when they thought they had the QB situation resolved.
 

Average Reds

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Going from 6 to 3 would be far less cost prohibitive than when they traded for Wentz.

Yes, they’re giving up more resources, but if an additional two 2nd round picks gets them Fields or Lance, I think they do it.

Hell, they used one second rounder on QB last year when they thought they had the QB situation resolved.
I disagree about last year. I’m fact, I’d say that using a second last year was a pretty strong indication that they felt that Wentz may not be the answer. Which turned out to be correct.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Two points:
1. Hurts was a mid-2nd round pick (#53 overall), not a mid-round rookie. Small nitpick but relevant. The Eagles FO did Wentz no favors by drafting a QB in the 2nd round less than a year after giving him an expensive, long-term contract and locking him down as the face of your franchise. It was literally the most shocking pick I've ever seen them make in the 35+ years I've been watching their drafts. Wentz may be overly sensitive or whatever but here's a guy that you know had issues with the fact that he had to sit and watch Foles win the Bowl, and you don't get him a WR or OL or anything to help in the 2nd round, but instead you draft a QB. And he's only 27 years old, so like yeah, WTF is going on here? Thanks Philly...
2. Wentz did exactly as you say he should have in 2019. He put a team of practice squaders on his back and dragged them into the playoffs. He was literally playing with WRs that were on the street a month prior and he made it happen. The OL and WRs were decimated and he carried the team.

He had a terrible, terrible 2020 season no doubt, and I agree his 2017 wasn't as great as it looked as nobody could sustain his/their 3rd down success long term. But he's still a guy I'd want at QB and this is a terrible outcome for the Eagles. I feel like I did when Nomar was traded - that it was all just a shame it had to work out like this.
I've been with you on Wentz since day one, and I continue to be with you. Guy is a good QB. He can make every throw, and he can move around. Put him in a dome instead of the shit weather in Philly, with Frank Reich, an actual running game, a good offensive line, and real NFL wide receivers, and I suspect he's going to be really, really good this year. If the rotten corpse that used to be Philip Rivers' arm can get the Colts to 11-5, while throwing for 4,100 yards,24tds,11ints and a 97.0 passer rating, I feel like Wentz can easily match that barring injury, and then add more production with his legs. As much as I hate Indy in every way, this was an absolutely terrific move for them.
 

RG33

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Today's excellent article in The Athletic sure makes it sound like Russell Wilson is going to get traded soon. That situation in Seattle is far worse than I ever thought: https://theathletic.com/2409212/2021/02/25/russell-wilson-trade-seahawks/

It will fascinating to see if Wilson or Watson happen first to set the market. With both guys on the block, it certainly shakes up the carousel a bit.
Nothing says “team player” more than the QB who had 7 turnovers in the last two games getting pissed at the coaching staff for not wanting to listen to him as to how they should adjust the game plan for the next game.

I have despised Russell Wilson since day 1 (for being such a phony), thoroughly enjoyed TB12 and BB mahomesing his coronation in 2014 and his lack of success since, and relish any article that talks about how his teammates hate him and stuff like this that shows him to be a self-indulged dickhead. IMO, of course.
 

Shelterdog

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Nothing says “team player” more than the QB who had 7 turnovers in the last two games getting pissed at the coaching staff for not wanting to listen to him as to how they should adjust the game plan for the next game.

I have despised Russell Wilson since day 1 (for being such a phony), thoroughly enjoyed TB12 and BB mahomesing his coronation in 2014 and his lack of success since, and relish any article that talks about how his teammates hate him and stuff like this that shows him to be a self-indulged dickhead. IMO, of course.
I can't even remember the name of it but i briefly listend to a draft podcast years ago and the HATED Wilson. They were trying to get time with him and he kind of cursed them out, told them he didn't have time for amateuers, etc--and then when they started recording he just got into the whole humble, just working hard and trying to show his character to the nfl, putting his faith in jesus and his own work ethic shtick. camera off, he yells at them some more.

All that said I would take him in a second. He's an asshole but he's really good at football.
 

rodderick

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I can't even remember the name of it but i briefly listend to a draft podcast years ago and the HATED Wilson. They were trying to get time with him and he kind of cursed them out, told them he didn't have time for amateuers, etc--and then when they started recording he just got into the whole humble, just working hard and trying to show his character to the nfl, putting his faith in jesus and his own work ethic shtick. camera off, he yells at them some more.

All that said I would take him in a second. He's an asshole but he's really good at football.
I feel like Bill would lose his mind with Wilson at QB. He's pretty much never on time and on rhythm.
 

Cellar-Door

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I feel like Bill would lose his mind with Wilson at QB. He's pretty much never on time and on rhythm.
Seems like a bad fit. A lot of the things Wilson supposedly doesn't like about Carroll are true even more so of Bill. While on the flip side Bill isn't going to love a guy who thinks he deserves more input and less criticism than anyone else because he's the QB, and on-field while a good O-line would help him, Wilson creates a lot of sack on his own as well. he's a tough guy to block for.
 

BaseballJones

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For whatever flaws he has, Russell Wilson is a GREAT quarterback. He just is. He'd improve the Patriots a metric ton over Cam Newton.
 

Harry Hooper

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Just a couple of days after touting a semi-imminent trade for Mariota, Rappaport is now saying no team wants to pay him $20+ million to be their starting QB. Raiders may release him.

Link
 

BaseballJones

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If we had a couple more weapons already I'd be willing to trade many 1st rounders for him. Problem is we get him and we wont have any assets to build
He took Seattle to the Super Bowl twice with lousy undrafted weapons (though a stud at RB in Lynch). Now he also had an all-time defense, but in terms of offense weapons, he didn't have much.
 

Cellar-Door

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For whatever flaws he has, Russell Wilson is a GREAT quarterback. He just is. He'd improve the Patriots a metric ton over Cam Newton.
Oh to be clear he's really good, I just think the fit is awkward given why he wants out of SEA. I don't think he'd be happier here.

As an example, I think Watson is a much better fit here if we're talking about trading a ton of assets for a QB.
 

BaseballJones

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Oh to be clear he's really good, I just think the fit is awkward given why he wants out of SEA. I don't think he'd be happier here.

As an example, I think Watson is a much better fit here if we're talking about trading a ton of assets for a QB.
Well for lots of reasons I'd prefer Watson over Wilson: contract and age being two. But man, we would be ecstatic if suddenly Russell Wilson was our quarterback.
 

ThePrideofShiner

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Wilson is incredible, obviously, and has done a lot with a little, but his turnover issues and the sacks he takes are something he is not taking into account when evaluating himself. As you folks well know, the reason the Patriots were able to have so many weapons for Brady over the years is because Brady kept reworking his contract. Russell hasn't offered to do that at all.

Also, it's pretty rich for Wilson to want the same control as Brady when Brady is the GOAT and Russell is what? A top five QB in the league currently. I don't know. This all smacks of Russ being convinced that the grass is greener on the other side. I mean, they've had at least nine wins in every season he's been in the league and been to the playoffs in every year but one.

That's pretty stinking good.

Anyway, I hope it works out and he is a Seahawks QB for life, but a lot of this sounds like sour grapes.
 

sodenj5

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Russell Wilson is a great QB.

That being said, if I’m giving up a haul of draft picks for a QB, the answer is Deshaun Watson>Russell Wilson 1000 times out of 1000.

Wilson is 7+ years older than Watson, and I think Watson might be the better QB right now.
 

Cellar-Door

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Wilson is incredible, obviously, and has done a lot with a little, but his turnover issues and the sacks he takes are something he is not taking into account when evaluating himself. As you folks well know, the reason the Patriots were able to have so many weapons for Brady over the years is because Brady kept reworking his contract. Russell hasn't offered to do that at all.

Also, it's pretty rich for Wilson to want the same control as Brady when Brady is the GOAT and Russell is what? A top five QB in the league currently. I don't know. This all smacks of Russ being convinced that the grass is greener on the other side. I mean, they've had at least nine wins in every season he's been in the league and been to the playoffs in every year but one.

That's pretty stinking good.

Anyway, I hope it works out and he is a Seahawks QB for life, but a lot of this sounds like sour grapes.
Brady also... doesn't have that much control? I mean he has some, but at no point in his career did they call him into FA and draft prep and get his opinion on what they should do on the O-line.
 

tims4wins

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He took Seattle to the Super Bowl twice with lousy undrafted weapons (though a stud at RB in Lynch). Now he also had an all-time defense, but in terms of offense weapons, he didn't have much.
Ahem, his defense took him twice. In 2013-2014 he was more like the 2003-2004 Tom Brady. Great player, but the D was instrumental in what they accomplished. He threw 4 picks in the 2014 NFCCG. In 2013 he threw for a combined 296 yards and 1 TD in their divisional + NFCCG wins.

Edit: fun fact: Wilson has only completed 20+ passes in 4 out of 16 career playoff games (25%). 300+ yards in 3 out of 16 (18.8%)

By comparison, Brady has completed 20+ passes in 35 out of 43 playoff games (81.4%), with 17 out of 43 at 300+ (39.5%)
 
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BaseballJones

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T4W - we aren't comparing Wilson to Brady. For me, the issue is how would Wilson do with this Pats team. I think a hell of a lot better than Cam.
 

Mooch

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Can we talk about the broader implications of top tier QBs seeking more control/input over things like personnel, coaching staff, playcalling/strategy, etc...? Between Wilson, Watson, Brady, Rodgers just to name a few, this appears to be a power grab by top tier QBs vs. management.

If this is indeed a league-wide trend, what does this portend for leaders like Belichick with a more dictatorial style? Is that a deal-killer for franchise QBs knowing that BB is the ultimate decision-maker? Are we heading to an era in the NFL where the QB position's leverage is more like the NBA in terms of superstars dictating terms for their franchises?
 

tims4wins

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T4W - we aren't comparing Wilson to Brady. For me, the issue is how would Wilson do with this Pats team. I think a hell of a lot better than Cam.
There's no comparison or argument to be made vs. Cam. The question comes down to how he'd do with BB. I'm with others who would vote "not great, Bob"
 

BaseballJones

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There's no comparison or argument to be made vs. Cam. The question comes down to how he'd do with BB. I'm with others who would vote "not great, Bob"
I thought the discussion is about how he'd do here - and I would see him as a huge upgrade over Cam, in basically every way. He might have some issues with Bill, but clearly he has some issues with Carroll and he's done damned well there.
 

tims4wins

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He's a top 5 QB. Cam is a bottom 5 QB. Of course he'd be a huge upgrade. That's not even worth discussing.

The discussion is on how he would do with BB, and whether he'd be worth the cost.

This is likely a moot conversation anyway since the Pats aren't on the above list.
 

Cellar-Door

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I thought the discussion is about how he'd do here - and I would see him as a huge upgrade over Cam, in basically every way. He might have some issues with Bill, but clearly he has some issues with Carroll and he's done damned well there.
The question though isn't... would he do better than Cam, it's... given the incredible price it would take, how confident are you in his fit that you can build a title winner around him. People were just pointing out that of the top QBs in the league he's one of the worse fits in terms of play-style and personality for a Bellichick team, and if the only reason he might be available is his forcing his way out, why would you bring him to a situation that isn't going to address the reasons he was unhappy in SEA?
 

sodenj5

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the Saints can't afford him, at least not this year. Not sure why he'd be interested in Chicago.
Chicago has a win now roster and assuming they bring back Allen Robinson, Russell would fit pretty nicely into a Matt Nagy offense.

Seems to make sense to me.