pretty sure that's fake.
pretty sure that's fake.
It's getting harder and harder to identify teams by their uniforms these days with all those special editions, city editions, etc..I have no idea what the Nuggets standard home/road uniforms look like.
Please give us a Suns/Jazz WCF...Suns can definitely win it all.
It’s realpretty sure that's fake.
If you want to have different rules for different players and in different situations, then yes, ejecting the MVP in the 2nd half of an elimination game seems a bit extreme.I’m surprised that the consensus here is that a Flagrant 2 is the right call. The Reddit and Insts threads on it seemed shocked by the two and honestly I feel like there’s worse fouls, not uncommonly, that don’t get ejections especially from star players in the playoffs. Maybe I’m skewed with what Wade got away with in the early 2010s but I watched that and was surprised with the heave ho.
Jose: it’s insta and it’s real.
I see no evidence gbbabydavis exists on twitter.
Is this on a different medium? Instagram?
I’d argue that the NBA has set different fouling standards for superstars than they do for regular players as I think anyone else would. Was it by rule a Flagrant 2? Quite arguably.If you want to have different rules for different players and in different situations, then yes, ejecting the MVP in the 2nd half of an elimination game seems a bit extreme.
But honestly, that was pretty clearly "unnecessary and excessive" when you consider the windup/follow through and the fact that he hit Payne in the head. It's a Flagrant 2 by any typical definition, it was not a basketball play.
Should the refs review the play, then change the call based on it being Jokic in a playoff elimination game? Not sure I agree there or have much sympathy for Jokic.
The dude totally snapped. Tough end to the season for him, but the call was pretty reasonable I think. Don't want to get ejected? Don't have a 5 second meltdown and risk seriously injuring someone.
If that happens, I believe it will be the 1st Finals appearance in the Western Conference for a non-Californian or non-Texan team since 2012 (OKC Thunder).Please give us a Suns/Jazz WCF...
Would be a great ending for a season that seemed destined for a Lakers or Nets title.If that happens, I believe it will be the 1st Finals appearance in the Western Conference for a non-Californian or non-Texan team since 2012 (OKC Thunder).
If the Suns/Jazz winner wins the Finals, it'll be the 1st non-Californian or non-Texan to win it all since 1979 (Seattle SuperSonics).
Agreed 100%!Would be a great ending for a season that seemed destined for a Lakers or Nets title.
LOL. Did you watch the play real time?Is it necessarily excessive? Perhaps a little. But if you want bat a ball out from the hands of a grown athlete, you have to put some force behind it. If he didn’t make contact with his face no one would have said anything. He’d just be going for a steal.
it’s possible that he did intended to send a message there, but I can’t get inside his head.
I was kind of surprised by the ejection considering: (a) there was a legitimate play on the ball to be made, (b) Jokic doesn’t have a reputation for this sort of thing, and (c) I’ve seen worse.
Yep all of this.LOL. Did you watch the play real time?
It was a total meltdown non-basketball play. He wasn't trying to get a steal, he was frustrated and trying to send a message.
Hitting the head was likely a mistake, thats where he got a bit unlucky and probably caused the ejection. But he was 100% definitely not just going for a steal.
Yes, I did. He deserved a flagrant, but I was surprised by the ejection. If he doesn't get unlucky, as you put it, and hit him in the face, nothing happens.LOL. Did you watch the play real time?
It was a total meltdown non-basketball play. He wasn't trying to get a steal, he was frustrated and trying to send a message.
Hitting the head was likely a mistake, thats where he got a bit unlucky and probably caused the ejection. But he was 100% definitely not just going for a steal.
It was just so clearly way way beyond any type of normal basketball play. Booker reacted instantly for a reason.Yes, I did. He deserved a flagrant, but I was surprised by the ejection. If he doesn't get unlucky, as you put it, and hit him in the fact, nothing happens.
I said it was possibly a little excessive. I disagree that it was "clearly beyond any type of normal basketball play" when he literally slapped the ball out of his hands and then went after the loose ball until the whistle. But it looks like we'll just have to disagree here.It was just so clearly way way beyond any type of normal basketball play. Booker reacted instantly for a reason. Sure the face aspect likely escalated it to an ejection, but even without that, it had nothing to do with going for a steal as you implied.
When you have a tantrum, it's sometimes hard to control exactly what you are doing. NBA was fortunate that this series was already over, would have certainly been way more awkward in a game 7.
He literally said in the post game that he wanted to "change the rhythm of the game, give us some energy and make a hard foul". That doesn't square with your view that it was purely a legit attempt to steal the ball. If you make a reckless play like that, with intent to make a hard foul, you have to live with the consequences if you end up catching the dude in the face.I feel like the phrases "just pissed off he missed a shot or thought he got fouled so he ran up to smack Payne and hopefully get some ball in the process" and "not a basketball play" doesn't really square with the fact that he hit the ball square on with his hand, forced the potential steal, and the contact to the face was from a part of his body that I don't think can reasonably be argued that anyone would use to hit another person (if Jokic wanted to hit the man and make a statement, every other part of his body would be more dangerous and intentional). I agree it was a reckless gameplay decision (that angle for most human beings is not viable for a steal attempt and is likely going to result in some level of incidental contact somewhere in the process as it did here) and the windup was ill advised as well. The more I watch it though, the less I can get to the argument that it wasn't an attempt to at least steal the ball. He got the ball, the ball was dislodged, the contact was not seeming intentional to me on the replay.
Doesn't mean it's not a Flagrant 2 in the technical sense, but I totally understand both sides on this one and tend to lean towards it being a call not backed up by standard handling of Flagrant 2's in the playoffs from past crews. *shrug*
That's a different argument than the one you made before though:Look at the Wade video above that was a post game Flagrant 1, and look at the Jokic video and was an in-game flagrant 2, and tell me you don't get why there's disagreement on this one from some parties on what is and isn't a flagrant of particular types, especially when ejections are automatic for it (even acknowledging he'd be ejected with the Flagrant 1 + Escalation with Booker after I believe). I'm not gonna argue this one any more as I've said I totally get it's a Flagrant 2, but there's still plenty of valid reason in my book to think it isn't and I don't think James, Giannis, Durant, etc. get ejected for it either if I'm being frank. Maybe the argument is that more dangerous or reckless plays should be Flagrant 2s and I'd certainly not be opposed to that.
How can you say that when Jokic has effectively said that contact was intentional?The more I watch it though, the less I can get to the argument that it wasn't an attempt to at least steal the ball. He got the ball, the ball was dislodged, the contact was not seeming intentional to me on the replay.
Yes this in a nutshell. He wouldn’t have been ejected as there would not have been a basis for the Flagrant-2 foul. It was the contact above the shoulders that ignited the F2.Yes, I did. He deserved a flagrant, but I was surprised by the ejection. If he doesn't get unlucky, as you put it, and hit him in the face, nothing happens.
My argument would be that Jokic likely intended to hit the hand/arm/ball with his lower arm/hand, not the face with his bicep. "Make a hard foul" can fundamentally be a different thing than what actually happened here (like was said, intent doesn't matter on flagrants in either direction). Do you think he gets ejected with a flagrant 2 without Payne getting incidentally contacted with the bicep to the face and then flopping for effect and instead hits Payne's arm hard? Maybe a Flagrant 1?That's a different argument than the one you made before though:
How can you say that when Jokic has effectively said that contact was intentional?
I didn't want Jokic to get booted, but I think it's pretty clearly a Flagrant 2. Some people seem to be arguing simultaneously that the lack of consistency in how these things are called is a problem, and that context (player and stage) should have dictated a different call here, and those two things don't really seem that congruous. If we allow context into the picture, there'll be even less consistency in these things.
Exactly this.He literally said in the post game that he wanted to "change the rhythm of the game, give us some energy and make a hard foul". That doesn't square with your view that it was purely a legit attempt to steal the ball. If you make a reckless play like that, with intent to make a hard foul, you have to live with the consequences if you end up catching the dude in the face.
Yeah, that's the unspoken "but" behind every argument that he shouldn't have been tossed. Without context it's brutal to toss the league MVP in the 3rd quarter of an elimination game, but....they were going to lose anyway. That's as close to a guaranteed eventual outcome as you'll get in the NBA playoffs.I’m just glad the series was effectively over when the foul happened. Had it been a Game 7, it would have a brutal call to make either way.
Absolutely right. The wind-up alone made it pretty damn obvious that it was a non-basketball play/tantrum.Exactly this.
It was a reckless non-basketball play. If you do that and don’t hit someone in the face, you don’t get tossed. But if do that and unintentionally hit someone in the face, unfortunately you’re stuck with the consequences.
I can see the superstar treatment/it’s the playoffs argument, but it was a pretty reasonable ejection based on what actually happened. The NBA and Jokic are just lucky it was basically irrelevant.
Wade was making a basketball play. He was running down the court without full control, had a defensive player stop in his path, made a maneuver designed to get past that player, and while doing so hit that defensive player in the head with his forearm. It was properly upgraded to a Flagrant 1.Look at the Wade video above that was a post game Flagrant 1, and look at the Jokic video and was an in-game flagrant 2, and tell me you don't get why there's disagreement on this one from some parties on what is and isn't a flagrant of particular types, especially when ejections are automatic for it (even acknowledging he'd be ejected with the Flagrant 1 + Escalation with Booker after I believe). I'm not gonna argue this one any more as I've said I totally get it's a Flagrant 2, but there's still plenty of valid reason in my book to think it isn't and I don't think James, Giannis, Durant, etc. get ejected for it either if I'm being frank. Maybe the argument is that more dangerous or reckless plays should be Flagrant 2s and I'd certainly not be opposed to that.
Yup, it was near the end of the Celtics huge comeback. He was backing down Grant, forced up a shot and was pissed he didn't get the foul call. Tatum got the rebound and as he dribbled past Jokic, the latter stopped complaining to the ref and wound up like he was about to slap at Tatum, just as he did last night. Bit of deja vu here, but he never actually took the swing:Absolutely right. The wind-up alone made it pretty damn obvious that it was a non-basketball play/tantrum.
Not sure if it was against the Celtics (I think it was?), but Jokic positively quit in a game earlier this season. Pouting, awful body language, etc. Not a great look.
Yup, it was near the end of the Celtics huge comeback. He was backing down Grant, forced up a shot and was pissed he didn't get the foul call. Tatum got the rebound and as he dribbled past Jokic, the latter stopped complaining to the ref and wound up like he was about to slap at Tatum, just as he did last night. Bit of deja vu here, but he never actually took the swing:
View: https://youtu.be/DooLvymIFPM?t=376
His afternoon was done shortly after that.